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Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

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Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 08:47:43:

some interesting things to check out. Has some humor value but cant discount the benefit of magnets. He gives some away some free too. Look and see for yourself




Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by Aaron on May 16, 2003 at 08:56:38:

In Reply to: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 08:47:43:

Have you tried the rings out yet to see how they work.
I should be getting mine anyday now. I can't wait to find out what effects they might have. I've read alot of positive testimonials and some negative. I want to find out for myself if they work.



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 09:15:41:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Aaron on May 16, 2003 at 08:56:38:

Immortality

I havent tried them out. am hoping to get a free set through referrals. I hope they work out great for you. Please post on here the results im very curious to hear. Alot of his claims sound kind of nutty like ressurection and immortality. However he has some fairly powerful magnets and I can totally believe they help improve circulation. Will just have to wait and see.



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by Aaron on May 16, 2003 at 09:29:01:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 09:15:41:

I don't believe in ALL his "theories" either but I strongly feel (from all that I've read) that the magnets do have some beneficial effects on the human body. I will definetely post my results here in a few days after I test them out. I just ordered the regular strengh rings first to see how they work before I get the neo ones.

Namaste
Aaron



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by Steve on May 16, 2003 at 10:20:37:

In Reply to: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 08:47:43:

Wellbeing, When something sounds too good to be true, beware..I have yet to here or talk to anyone (encluding myself) that has received any long term benifit from magnets, rings, Q-Ray ect..But their's always the placebo effect, If you think it's going to work..Good health to you..Steve



Worthless quackery, don't waste your money

Posted by Jake on May 16, 2003 at 23:46:00:

In Reply to: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 08:47:43:

Please.. magnets?



Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 06:09:58:

In Reply to: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money posted by Jake on May 16, 2003 at 23:46:00:

Immortality

wow with a thorough debunking like that youve single handedly brought down the magnet industry. heheheheh Seriously tho plenty of alternative health minded folks use magnets. its not a small group of crazy people. Many reputable companies make health products using magnets.



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 06:13:16:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Steve on May 16, 2003 at 10:20:37:

Immortality

Yes Steve im also a skeptic. But I like to try new things out. Its exciting :) While I dont believe alot of the claims people make I DO believe magnets help increase circulation.

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Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2003 at 06:48:24:

In Reply to: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money posted by Jake on May 16, 2003 at 23:46:00:

Hi,Jake.

I agree that, while all new products seem to suffer from excessive hype, you must not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

How could magnets NOT have an effect upon cellular physiology? Study just one indication: the SQUID (superconducting quantum interfeerometer device) that has shown profound alterations of internal cellular function with tiny exposure to magnetic and electronic stimuli. This has been known for 20+ years, This was the device that first showed that internal cellular communication between atoms, organelles and molecules is mostly by 640 angstrom laser light. Even you must know that magnets alter the path of laser light.

You are simply wrong when you say that this is a total waste of money. You remind me of the quote from a very wise man: "Never utter these words: 'I do not know this, therefore it is false.' One must study to know, know to understand, understand to judge." Apothegm of Narada

Here is to your ultimate enlightenment.

If you ever learn better, I hope you will share your impressions with the rest of us

Walt



Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive

Posted by Steve on May 17, 2003 at 07:12:38:

In Reply to: Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2003 at 06:48:24:

Walt, We can't forget the placebo effect,30 to 50 percent..The mind can do some strange things..But I have yet to here from someone who has had sucess over a extended period..Have you? Steve



Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money

Posted by Steve on May 17, 2003 at 07:15:34:

In Reply to: Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money posted by Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 06:09:58:

Wellbing, You need to try them and let us know "how's it working" after 1 year..Steve



Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2003 at 07:39:03:

In Reply to: Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive posted by Steve on May 17, 2003 at 07:12:38:

Thanks, Steve.

Actually, the positive placebo effect, when both the recommender and the person using know what is being used, and believes in the remedy, is more like 75%. In double blind studies the positive placebo effect is about 35%. In this case, I would say that the situation is more like the former scenario.

Of course the same is to be said for all those wonderful advertisements for prescription drugs on the TV!

I have seen people who still are swearing about the effectiveness of their magnetic apparatuses, years later. It is not all placebo for everyone and it is not all non-placebo for everyone either. So far, only trial and error will tell which of us will be benefitted and which of us needs to spend the money and go to the bother for our "Dumbo's Feather" and which of us actually are being altered by the magnests alone.

Theoretically, it is impossible that they would not work for some of us WITHOUT the placebo effect.

Hope this helps.

Walt

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Wow

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 09:33:55:

In Reply to: Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money (WAIT A MINUTE!) Archive posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2003 at 06:48:24:

Hi Walt,

Are you really a doctor? I find this incredulous if you actually agree with and support someone who claims wearing a magnet ring on each hand will result in immortality. Even you must realize the magnetic fields generated by these products are very weak and any possible effects would be overwhelmed by other thermodynamic forces. I have studied and practiced the biological sciences for 3 decades, perhaps you should consider doing likewise before endorsing such absurd products.

Jake



Re: Wow

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 09:55:33:

In Reply to: Wow posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 09:33:55:

Anyone who took the time to read Stoll's post could see that nowhere did he endorse this product. He spoke about the possible benefits of magnets. If you would have read his posts you would have also saw him say "Actually, the positive placebo effect, when both the recommender and the person using know what is being used, and believes in the remedy, is more like 75%. In double blind studies the positive placebo effect is about35%. In this case, I would say that the situation is more like the former scenario"
The fact that you actually questioned if he is a doctor because of what he wrote is rediculous. You seemed just a little TOO anxious to lash out :)



Re: Wow

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 10:05:39:

In Reply to: Re: Wow posted by Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 09:55:33:

Wellbeing,

Maybe I'm wrong but this sure sounded like an endorsement to me: "You are simply wrong when you say that this is a total waste of money." "This" referring to the immortality magnet rings.

Also, not really relevant here but I've conducted my share of double blind clinical studies and can tell you a 35% positive placebo effect with real drugs does not happen. If you are talking about subjective "I think I feel better" studies, perhaps.

Jake




Re: Wow

Posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 10:25:18:

In Reply to: Re: Wow posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 10:05:39:

The "You are simply wrong when you say that this is a total waste of money" didn't mean his belief that the rings would give you immortality. By saying that this is not a total waste of money simply means that they might be beneficial (magnets do help people). That he believed the rings would make the user immortal is your own conjecture. If that's the kind of logic you applied to your clinical studies, no wonder drugs are as dangerous as they are.



Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money

Posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 10:27:22:

In Reply to: Re: Worthless quackery, don't waste your money posted by Steve on May 17, 2003 at 07:15:34:

You haven't read recent report from Gregory about his use of magnets, have you?

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Why don't we see what the good doctor says

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 10:56:41:

In Reply to: Re: Wow posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 10:25:18:

Rather than have other people speak for him. The main claim for this product is immortality, any defense of the product must include the claims as well, very basic here.

Jake



Re: Why don't we see what the good doctor says

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 11:06:47:

In Reply to: Why don't we see what the good doctor says posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 10:56:41:

OK..what did Stoll say exactly. This "You are simply wrong when you say that this is a total waste of money" now what was he responding to? your topic and this "Please.. magnets?" You made known you thought magnets were a total waste of money and quackery for use in healing. Stoll was defending magnets. Not this devices claim for immortality. Im not sure why you would try to twist the reality of the matter this much to try to say Stoll supports this products claim of immortality or even this product. Its pretty clear to see he doesnt.



Please, let the doctor answer

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 11:25:41:

In Reply to: Re: Why don't we see what the good doctor says posted by Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 11:06:47:

The question is very simple - does he think the immortality magnet rings are a waste of money? Clearly a product must deliver on the promised claims. This is akin to one making a claim that a new pill cures all cancers. The fact that the pill does not cure cancer at all but instead may make one feel slightly better or have some other minor benefit i.e. antioxidant activity still makes that product a total waste of money, by any rational definition.

Jake



Re: Please, let the doctor answer

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 11:50:42:

In Reply to: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 11:25:41:

Oh I see. so it isnt really the product itself that defines its value. Its only the claims that surround it. so If I sell vitamin C claiming its a cure for cancer its a totally worthless whereas if a vitamin store sells it without that claim then its a worthwhile product? My point here is I seriously doubt anyone that buys this product believes it will make them immortal. Ok maybe a couple people with a few screws loose. However, most have heard about possible benefits of magnets and are curious for that reason. If they get to be immortal. BONUS!! if not well at least they could get the possible benefit of the more well accepted effects of magnets. I am 100% certain Dr Stoll doesnt believe this device will grant immortality. I would bet significant sums of money on it. Tell me this. do you honestly think he believes the rings will grant immortality? Im curious to know



Re: Please, let the doctor answer

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 13:37:53:

In Reply to: Re: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Wellbeing on May 17, 2003 at 11:50:42:

Of course it is both the product and the claims that make something worthwhile or not. Otherwise, what is the point? Anyone and everyone would make every possible ridiculous claim for their product, whether there's a shred of evidence to support it or not. Come to think of it, this is a typical practice with many internet-marketed alternative health products I've seen. Thankfully, the government makes real drugs prove the efficacy and safety of their products, as well as approving all claims. Now back to the immortality rings, even if magnets do have any therapeutic value, and I firmly believe based on the evidence they do not, what possible benefit could one gain from wearing a magnet ring on two fingers, other than aiding any ailments that might be present in those two fingers?

I surely hope Dr. Stoll does not believe those rings will impart immunity, but frankly I was shocked to see him even defend the product in any way.



Rehashing the obvious

Posted by Gregory on May 17, 2003 at 17:23:23:

In Reply to: Re: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 13:37:53:

Now I'm curious. How would you disprove the claim of immortality. All I need to do is stay alive. If you die before I do, then I never will have proved the rings work to your satisfaction. If I get pushed in front of a car, i've some other mishap the rings can't protect against, then once more I've proved or disproved nothing.
I think the test is meaningless, but what be proven is accelerated healing, with cautoius conjecture an extrapolation from there.



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 19:47:23:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Steve on May 16, 2003 at 10:20:37:

I have yet to here or talk to anyone (encluding myself) that has received any long term benifit from magnets, rings, Q-Ray ect.

There may be a reason why you don't hear much that is different from what you believe in. We tend to be attracted to and attract people that share our beliefs and development level.

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Interesting question

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 19:51:59:

In Reply to: Rehashing the obvious posted by Gregory on May 17, 2003 at 17:23:23:

Maybe I'm a fool, or just have ethics and a conscience, but if I thought I'd invented such a device I'd run at least one controlled clinical before selling it. Seems to me a simple study would be to identify a sample of 200 reasonably healthy people in their late 70s/early 80s, stratify into two balanced cells, give one cell the magnetic rings and the other identical rings without magnets. Then follow them all with semi-annual physical exams. I'm confident you'd have your answer in a year or two.

Jake



Evidence supporting magnet therapy

Posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 20:21:44:

In Reply to: Re: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 13:37:53:

even if magnets do have any therapeutic value, and I firmly believe based on the evidence they do not

Have you seen evidence that magnets have no therapeutic effects or is it that you just haven't seen evidence of the opposite? I just did a search on Pubmed and found this -- Static magnetic field therapy for symptomatic diabetic neuropathy: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. It provides evidence that magnet do have therapeutic effects. There were more than 800 items in the result of my particular search left that I didn't go through. Perhaps, I would've found some more support.



Interesting.... thanks

Posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 20:45:15:

In Reply to: Evidence supporting magnet therapy posted by R. on May 17, 2003 at 20:21:44:

No I was not aware of any legitimate studies showing an effect, although what I meant by therapeutic was the ability of magnets to eliminate a disease state and the effects of aging as the magnetic ring gentleman claims. It is at least plausible to expect a modest reduction in perceived pain at a very localized area in contact with magnets.

Jake



Re: Interesting answer

Posted by Gregory on May 18, 2003 at 00:35:05:

In Reply to: Interesting question posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 19:51:59:

Maybe if you had the money and manpower, and could lock out other variables. A one man web operation might not be able to do it, and fend off the FDA.
Then, there is personality or as you so aptly put it What YOU personally would do. Then there is the skeptic factor, which states (roughly) that no matter what test you run, there will always be someone who isn't satisfied with it.
So what you are left with ultimately is buy or build the rings and try them out for yourself, and risk being called a fool, or shutting up and letting others try it.
Personally I can stand making mistakes and being called a fool. If it works I found something that works and good for me. If it doesn't, well intriguing, and back to the drawing board.
Since there are no perfect people, it will always be a case of the kettle calling the pot black. A bit "so what?"
You can very obviously *NOT* tell anyone what you are doing and spare yourself the ridicule, or you can remember to wear a thicker skin if you decide to tell of your experiments...

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Re: Interesting.... thanks

Posted by R. on May 18, 2003 at 02:49:22:

In Reply to: Interesting.... thanks posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 20:45:15:

Magnets can have a systemic affect. If they effect biologically active points (and they are pretty much everywhere), then can affect the whole body. And they can also modify blood in a way the can have a systemic effect. I have heard of experiments people do with subjecting water to magnetic field and then using the water to water plants. They notice remarkable changes. Just some food for thought: if magnets can do what's described at http://www.adtenterprises.com/magnet.html, is it inconceivable that magnets can modify blood in any significant (and hopefully beneficial) way too?

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Re: Wow

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 18, 2003 at 07:00:26:

In Reply to: Wow posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 09:33:55:

Jake,

Are you really a human?

You neglected to read my first sentence where I deplored the exagerations of some promoters.

Walt

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Re: Please, let the doctor answer

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 18, 2003 at 07:05:59:

In Reply to: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Jake on May 17, 2003 at 11:25:41:

Jake,

It is apparent you have been caught in a trap of your own construction. No amount of wiggling will get you out of it.

The more you wiggle, the more obvious becomes your construction. If you have anything else to say you had better say it soon before I tune you out totally. If you have read my first note you know what I mean. If you have not, it is your own fault.

It seems you stopped thinking with tht words "Wait a Minute."

Walt



And now that the Doctor has answered...

Posted by Gregory on May 18, 2003 at 07:25:59:

In Reply to: Re: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Walt Stoll on May 18, 2003 at 07:05:59:

Perhaps that is the point Walt. He does not want to change his mind or ideas. He wants you as guru of the board, and and
acknowledged professional and someone he considers at *his* level to AGREE with him, even if he has to embarrass and browbeat you into doing so.

Why bother? No matter what reasonalble premise you present to him, his mind is already made up and he will not be swayed by
the facts.



Unfortunately he did not

Posted by Jake on May 18, 2003 at 09:22:40:

In Reply to: And now that the Doctor has answered... posted by Gregory on May 18, 2003 at 07:25:59:

Gregory,

I couldn't care less whether he agrees with me or not, I just wanted the answer to a very simple answer. Why bother is right, there is no place for facts on this board.

Adios,

Jake



As I suspected

Posted by Jake on May 18, 2003 at 09:23:47:

In Reply to: Re: Please, let the doctor answer posted by Walt Stoll on May 18, 2003 at 07:05:59:

Walt,

Sadly, you couldn't even answer the most basic question on this topic, then resort to ridicule to obfuscate the issue. I'm sure you'll delete this but I don't care as I won't bother to post here anymore. I found out your license has been revoked and it is obvious why. Have fun in your little dream world here.

Jake



Re: As I suspected

Posted by heartfelt sentiment on May 18, 2003 at 09:30:45:

In Reply to: As I suspected posted by Jake on May 18, 2003 at 09:23:47:

...and you have fun in yours. Ta ta.

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Re: As I suspected

Posted by Girly on May 18, 2003 at 09:34:52:

In Reply to: As I suspected posted by Jake on May 18, 2003 at 09:23:47:

Jake

you are acting childish and really immature about this. You seeem quite intelligent so why resort to this kind of insulting, immature behaviour. You dont need to inform us of your departure. Really, thats a personal decision. I still think you will miss out on a lot, but thats your choice. does everyone have to agree with you? you were wrong inyour post to doc stoll. If you read back, you will see you made incorrect assumptions on your part about doc stoll, and now you are acting like a stubborn child.

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Re: Unfortunately he did not

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 19, 2003 at 06:44:19:

In Reply to: Unfortunately he did not posted by Jake on May 18, 2003 at 09:22:40:

Dear Jake,

You are MUCH too far out for me! I have just officially tuned you out.

Walt

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Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by NJ on May 19, 2003 at 11:30:22:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Aaron on May 16, 2003 at 09:29:01:

I was afraid of saying that I had ordered the rings, too, until I read what Aaron had to say. Poor circulation runs rampant in our family. I can't wait to receive them but if they don't work....I will be the first to tell you. I am concerned about wearing them while working on my computer. Any suggestions?



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 19, 2003 at 13:32:23:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by NJ on May 19, 2003 at 11:30:22:

Immortality

I wouldnt think you would have any problems as long as you kept your magnets away from floppy disks. Also I wouldnt put your hand right up next to the actual computer close to the hard drive. the magnets arent that powerful to wipe your hard drive out when you are typing. however if you are using a laptop I wouldnt recommend wearing the rings. Alex Chiu said one of his friends wiped out a hard drive in a laptop cause the magnets were so close to the drive because the keyboard is right on top of it. be especially careful if you got the more powerful rings. Ive put magnets all over a floppy disk and a hard drive before and it didnt do anything to it....but his might be alot stronger....better safe than sorry I guys by the way dont you just love that banner? :)



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings (and computers)

Posted by Gregory on May 19, 2003 at 15:45:57:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 19, 2003 at 13:32:23:

No. I hate the banner.

Maybe you could just not wear the rings when you are going to use the computer. The other reason is that the rings are powerful enough to damage your monitor. It took me 3 weeks to bring the color back to normal on my 19" monitor after wearing the rings in my computer area.

Rings stay in the bedroom, far away from computers and computer equipment.



Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by *L* on May 19, 2003 at 16:01:31:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 19, 2003 at 13:32:23:

your banner is about as appealing as spam.

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Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings (and computers)

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 19, 2003 at 16:13:32:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings (and computers) posted by Gregory on May 19, 2003 at 15:45:57:

did you get any good results from wearing the rings? And I think the banner is hilarious. :)

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Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by Aaron on May 19, 2003 at 21:57:08:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Wellbeing on May 16, 2003 at 09:15:41:

I just received my rings in the mail today!
I just finished with my SR with the rings on and WOW...I must say that was the most relaxing SR session that I've ever experienced yet. I noticed that my heart rate was up and my hands and feet were alot warmer than usual. I was definetely feeling something happening in my body. I will post how I feel tomorrow when I wake up. I beleive that there definetely is someting good here.




Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings

Posted by
Wellbeing on May 19, 2003 at 22:08:43:

In Reply to: Re: Alex Chiu's Magnetic immortality rings posted by Aaron on May 19, 2003 at 21:57:08:

Glad to see you having such promising results already. I just ordered a set today. Did you get the normal ones or the neo rings? Also what does SR stand for? I saw someone mention SR and show a link to the brainwave generator so im guessing it has something to do with those tones.

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