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Social Security Hot Potatoe..

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Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Alan Greenspan said today that the SS trust fund would be exhausted in 2042..BTW I will be 100 years old that year and I will really be mad if I don't get my check..SS payments out start exceeding income in 2018 and go broke in 2042..

Medicare payments out pace income starting this year and goes broke in 2019..

Notice how neither Bush or Kerry want to touch this one..After the election ( who ever wins ) will raise taxes to cover the short fall..

Just to brighten up your day..

Silver Fox!



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Vince F [173.9] on August 27, 2004 at 14:32:22:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Greenspan did some creative bookwork as the accountant for Lincoln S&L so maybe he can do something with These #'s or maybe he can't add like the admin or Hide the real costs like the drug bill.



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:38:51:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by Vince F [173.9] on August 27, 2004 at 14:32:22:

Maybe, but I doubt it..He wouldn't have survived 5 terms if he wasn't any good..

Silver Fox!



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 27, 2004 at 14:56:39:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

why not privatize? Its a joke anyway. People should be able to invest their own money.



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 15:06:00:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 27, 2004 at 14:56:39:

Sonnysux,

Yeah that's a good idea but who would run it? Would you want someone investing your money and most people don't have a clue on investing their own money..

Silver Fox!



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Sapphire [422.532] on August 27, 2004 at 16:08:05:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Steve,

I think Australia is forseeing the same problem. Seems like I read recently that they are giving a tax credit for people who have children so that there will be more young people to support the cost of a society with so many aging elderly. (see link below)

Sapphire

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. (Relax it is not so bad.)

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 17:43:55:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Hi Steve,

and by 2030 2/3 of the baby boomers will be dead based on the life insurance tables which point at average life expectancy of 73.

What will they do then, allow evryone to retire at 40
because the coffers will be overflowing?

I think a lot has to do with the number of self employed who
will work past 65 because they never put away sufficient money to retire in the first place.
They may as well keep working or they will have to shut down the family business and put their kids out of work.

Don't worry... the politicians will find a way to draw a pension or three and still keep making money as consultants.
Ron

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 18:28:29:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 15:06:00:

Hi Steve,

Maybe a good job would be in financial planning, so that one could get paid from someone elses' savings as they went down the drain like Enron, Worldcom, Nortel etc?

I hate to say it, but the only way the elderly will see
an income is to have some inflation and 8 or 9% return on their bank accounts. Right now, the investments are being milked like a cow by short-sellers and futures-traders who
don't care what carnage they leave while they make their
inside guesses.

Ron

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 18:31:44:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:38:51:

Hi Steve,

Maybe he has been advising politicians a few weeks before
he comes on to tell everyone else what is going on.

That would be reason enough to keep him around.. eh?

Ron



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 20:04:39:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 27, 2004 at 14:56:39:

yeah, sonnysux...I was going to say the same thing.

I'm all for privatization. People could pick whichever money managers they wanted to invest their money. Those who did the best for their clients would prosper. Their clients would prosper too...

~~~8>



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Vince F [173.9] on August 27, 2004 at 20:14:53:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 27, 2004 at 14:56:39:

people live on credit as it is and if Anything happens to them you will have a Lot of Street people. With Free Trade there will be fewer jobs at lower wages so less money to spend or save. I Guess We're Cooked...

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You had better listen again? its worse than that?

Posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 27, 2004 at 20:44:39:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

I heard him say that people who are retiring at 65 will not be able to, that is the ones who are around 60 now. We have a friend who has already gotten his letter where he was told that he had to wait until he was 67 before he would be able to retire. Thanks to the Republicians since Ex President Regan started this when he was in office I remember it.



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 27, 2004 at 20:49:45:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 20:04:39:

Hi Labrat, I don't think that would work since people would be just steal it and use it for their own use. We can' depend on the Stock Market or anyone any more. Our Government just will send these people to the jail for about a year and then they will still have our money.

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 21:12:28:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 20:04:39:

Hi Labrat,

I don't know who you would rather seal your money.. the government or private business who won't be forced to maintain any social programs..
In a lot of ways, having ONE king would be better than all those robber-barons.

Having a financial advisor would not make any NEW money for you... All it would do is take Peter's money, take a commission for handling it and pay Paul his gain while
Peter went broke.
For every person who made a million in the stock market
there are at least a hundred who lost $10,000.
Survival of the fittest or survival of the business would be the rule.

At least Americans have 30 year term mortgages to protect them. Not so in Canada, Eh? 7 years is about the maximum and then the current interest rate takes over.
Many people here have bought houses in the last few years
and they are only able to carry the loan because it is at
4 1/2%.. Just think how they feel knowing that they might have to walk away from the property if rates are at 7% when they must sell for less than they paid.

Ron



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Dan Quale [1194.48] on August 27, 2004 at 22:08:46:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

I knew there was an "e" in it.



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by PhillyLady [2018.41] on August 27, 2004 at 22:15:07:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by Dan Quale [1194.48] on August 27, 2004 at 22:08:46:

Hey, what brings you out of the woodwork?

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 22:48:43:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 21:12:28:

not so, Ron. I'm not talking about independent "stock brokers",. I work for a pension fund management company. These companies are highly regulated and cannot invest pension $ in high risk investments. We make money for our clients or we wouldn't be in business. Generally, the deal is that the investment company gets either a fee or a percentage of the asset value. This is an incentive for the company to invest wisely and increase the value of their clients' accounts.

Not sure what you mean by not making new money...a return on an investment is new money.

And to answer your question, I'd much rather have a private business that I chose "steal" my money because it was my own bad judgement, rather than the government squander it outright against my will.

Who finances the mortgages in Canada? Why are they so short term? It seems to me that those folks who bought houses with the knowledge that they might get priced out of them took a calculated risk. Or they spent beyond their means. Hopefully, they will learn not to do that in the future. You could make a lot of money there offering 15 or 30 year loans it sounds like.

~~~8>



Re: You had better listen again? its worse than that?

Posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 23:04:34:

In Reply to: You had better listen again? its worse than that? posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 27, 2004 at 20:44:39:

what did Reagan start? He wanted to privatize Social Security. He wanted to restructure SS because it was already going bankrupt. Carter was the one who simply raised SS taxes so they could blow even more money!

~~~8>



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 23:52:05:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 22:48:43:

Hi Labrat,

Big pension funds do invest as wisely as possible for the reasons you mention, but in the world of "self administered
registered pension plans", where individual workers
put money into the equivalent of a 401k they are at the mercy of others who are far mor liquid in their ability to buy and sell at the drop of a "point" or less.

For instance, people who complain about the high service charges at the bank they deal with are told to go elsewhere
like a credit union... The banks really would rahter that you bought shares in their own bank than others.
In Canada the deadline for investment deductions is the end of February and the bank stocks usually have good rises in the weeks preceeding that time... Then within the next
few weeks, others in the know take profits and the shares drop sometimes as much as 20%, but the small investors
are frozen with their decision to keep that bank stock
and can't move fast enough to get out at the top.
It is almost like the way the executives at Enron took the
money and ran leaving the employees holding the empty bag.
A return on investment is NOT NEW MONEY... it is only the fact that someone else was willing to buy shares at $50
that your company can sell those shares which they paid $40
for a few months earlier.... It is only NEW MONEY to the
company owners who floated the share offering to the public for a piece of their company. Once the shares have changed hands everyone is holding "someone else's" money if they made a profit. (even the original owners who have
probably offered more shares at a higher price than their
company was actually worth.)
The brokers never call to tell you that the shares you own have gone up a lot and now is an "EXCELLENT SELLING OPPORTUNITY" They only call to tell you it is time to BUY
when someone is selling a huge lot of shares and they stand to make a big commission.

A single investor who buys and sells shares when he feels the time is right, has to be either very lucky or know someone who might hint about the next monthly report or
he is stuck with the shares being down on early trading
before he can call his bank or broker. I have seen Walmart shares go down on good news because some creative seller
decided to sell on Friday knowing that there might be some
good news which was already built into the Monday price.

All that seems to be happening now is that the futures traders seem to lead the market as you can see with oil prices. The supply has not changed, the consumption has not gone up, but some politician in Russia or South America gets
upset or re-elelected and the fears of the futures traders carry the price up on specualtion.

I am sure that the futures traders sold their positions on
oil last Monday at almost $50 and bought "Puts" on the same
futures betting that they would go down with the good news they had conveyed to them by friends in Iraq. In the meantime, other less informed suckers were still buying, thinking that the futures were going to continue to rise
for a while longer.

Futures traders can buy on huge magins and get out or back in with a 1/4 point change making a small fortune...
leaving the buy and hold investor with a loss if he should
sell at a 1/4 point gain which is less than he would pay in commission.

Have ou ever heard (on AM radio) Harold Segal the commodities trader who lives in Florida tell you that it is time to buy gold which will probably go to $1800 per ounce in a year? I have seen him preaching that it is time to buy while I believe he is selling that same day.
Talk about stimulating the market!!

Did your comnpany have a chance to buy the recent offering
of Yahoo before it opened to the public? If I had bought
at the $85 I would have already sold because I believe that
most of the original buyers have standing orders in to sell
at no more than $120

Other people's money is how the rich get richer. Yahoo did not do any more than get on the computer screens of the world and show some ads.. They did not make a thing except
themselves.. Now they are selling out and taking their profits to invest in something else which is small and cheap, only to hype it up and sell it too.

We used to have 25 year mortgages in Canada until about
1976 when the government thought that it was too constricting to allow people to have that security.
It was at about the same time that Trudeau ran up the
defficit and was trying to encourage investment to prop up the Canuck buck... it worked because we had 22% interest rates in 1981... Luckily I renewed at 9% before the peak..
The only reason that our dollar did not fall further was because the Bank of Canada was paying foreign investors a huge return to hang on to those dollars.
Many people walked away from their houses loosing their downpayment and all profit because actually selling would
have cost them more leaving them with a debt after selling.

Until the rest of the world buys goods and services from the
US there is NO NEW MONEY... Have you looked at the balance of trade lately?
When people realize that inflation is the only way to
stimulate the economy, those who have already bought gold
will be able to sell their gold to those who are trying to
get on the boat too late. Again... OTHER PEOPLE"S MONEY.
Anyone who buys gold now will cause the inflation and devaluation that they are trying to escape. There should be NO gold in the equation to keep everyone honest.

What else does one expect from a system that calls itself
Capitalistic?

Ron

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Vince F [173.9] on August 28, 2004 at 01:09:53:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 22:48:43:

you're prime for DEregulation. Everything should be so someone can Loot them.

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Steve [14.11] on August 28, 2004 at 07:42:33:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 27, 2004 at 18:31:44:

Ron,

He controls the economy in this country and would do a better job than Bush or Kerry..

Silver Fox!

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 28, 2004 at 11:44:44:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Thanks, Steve.


As someone else said "It is a LOT worse than this."

I would suggest that anyone who really wants to know would go to www.politicsandscience.org and let us know what they learn.

I have been ranting about Dubya and stem cells for years. Fortunately, the rest of the world is not waiting for the US to get it's thumb out of it's a-- about this one.

There is a lot at stake with this election.

Walt



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 28, 2004 at 11:52:46:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

One more thing, Steve.

I would suggest anyone serious about this and politicsand medicine to read the article "Politics and Science" pages 109-118, by Mark Parascandola, PhD, MPH; Research Practitoner, Volume 5 Number 4, July and August 2004.

Walt

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Wait until you get your letter from the GOV.

Posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 28, 2004 at 19:03:12:

In Reply to: Re: You had better listen again? its worse than that? posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 23:04:34:

Regan was the one who started the ida that people could work until they were 70 before they retired I remember that very well. He was healthly and thought everyone else should live to be a ripe old age. My husband worked with this guy who told him that he has already gotten his letter telling him that he is going to have to work until he is 67 before he can retire. Maybe you didn't read my whole post. There will be some who will go up the ledder slowly until some will then will have to work until they are 70 before they can retire.He worked for my husband since since my husband and we understand how he must feel.



Regan started the late retire? Read again!

Posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 28, 2004 at 19:04:27:

In Reply to: Re: You had better listen again? its worse than that? posted by labrat [1674.1369] on August 27, 2004 at 23:04:34:

Regan was the one who started the ida that people could work until they were 70 before they retired I remember that very well. He was healthly and thought everyone else should live to be a ripe old age. My husband worked with this guy who told him that he has already gotten his letter telling him that he is going to have to work until he is 67 before he can retire. Maybe you didn't read my whole post. There will be some who will go up the ledder slowly until some will then will have to work until they are 70 before they can retire.He worked for my husband since since my husband and we understand how he must feel.

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Re: Wait until you get your letter from the GOV.

Posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on August 28, 2004 at 19:25:59:

In Reply to: Wait until you get your letter from the GOV. posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 28, 2004 at 19:03:12:

Reagan is the person that introduced us all to the "the nat'l debt doesn't matter" theory.


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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on August 28, 2004 at 19:30:05:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

In my opinion, there is one party that is much more responsible when it comes to balancing the deficit and protecting SS but I won't say which one because I don't want to create an uproar.
It's pretty much cut & dry as far as I'm concerned.





Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Vince F [173.9] on August 28, 2004 at 19:48:54:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on August 28, 2004 at 19:30:05:

the stock market always does Much better and They Aren' the party of BIG business. Funny...

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Good point

Posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on August 28, 2004 at 20:34:46:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 28, 2004 at 11:44:44:

Hi Walt,

I'm pretty sure that you and I are going to be voting for the same party this November. 8>)

L.


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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 29, 2004 at 20:08:52:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 15:06:00:

They would have to learn how to invest. Thats the beauty of freedom. Everyone is responsible. I hate how the govt thinks hey know better than we do as to what to do with OUR money.
Anyway if social security is going to run out in the future they have to do something. The only other way to keep it up is to raise taxes. I sure don't want that.



Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Connie [1898.44] on August 29, 2004 at 20:38:02:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 29, 2004 at 20:08:52:

Did you know that the workers are pay higher so Social Security taxes now than ever. But the Govt. is taking it and spending it on other things like this war for instance. I don't believe they should be able to use that money for anything else. They are not letting the American people know just how bad it is. The repulicans is wasting it. I heard the Debates back with President Bush and Al Gore had them and I knew then what Bush was going to do with our money. While Gore said he was going to put it under lock and key Bush never said anything about what he was going to do with it and now it is being spent on this war. I don't believe they will win this one just like the other war where 58000 boys died for nothing.Since we know this country is broke you can believe they are using that money. Bush will do anything to get back into Office I respeck the Office but the man I don't.

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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on August 30, 2004 at 06:52:46:

In Reply to: Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by sonnysux [2202.489] on August 29, 2004 at 20:08:52:

We can't have a secure Social Security without raising taxes. To balance the deficit, we HAVE to raise taxes. We cannot pull money out of the air.


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Re: Social Security Hot Potatoe..

Posted by
chris allen [2663.74] on September 08, 2004 at 12:12:16:

In Reply to: Social Security Hot Potatoe.. posted by steve [135.4] on August 27, 2004 at 14:13:42:

Hi! I hope everyone is aware that the Bush administration has been "borrowing" heavily from the Social Security Trust Fund .. with his phenomenal spending and borrowing (from China, Japan, South Korea, etc.) he has put the SS Fund at greater risk. Bush has borrowed billions from other countries. Does it comfort you to know we are dependent on those nations .. that if they called in the debts .. we would be in financial peril?? To be fair .. apparently the Democrats have raided the SS Trust Fund too .. we really need legislation to safeguard the Fund from such raids. Chris

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