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I haven been goign to see a psycologist cause I knew somethign is wrong with the way I react to situations and the way I go about life when it comes to relationships.
I kind of figured out myself that I have an anxiety problem. I get nervous and anxious about everyhting from playing backetball to ceartain social situations. When I got sick with prostatitis (or whatever it is) I got really nervous about it. I wondered what it was and if it could be some horriable other deseise and I basically shut down for a solid week. I could nto do much of anyhting the worry levle was so high.
THen recently my girlfriend has left me raising the level even higher. The anxiety goes further back into my past but I don;t knwo how far or where it comes from. However ever since I got the prostatitis I have become depressed. DOn't enjoy much anymore and don't feel like doign anyhitng. I see what would be good for me to do and what is healthy but I just don't want to do it. I feel like I can't get over the hump and I am just sad all the time.
Psycologist thinks it is a classic sign of depression and some anxiety dissorder. He told me that he felt going on somehting like Zoloft would be a good idea and he wants me to go talk to a doctor and get on it. He said it is not the solution but will help me out so that I can continue to talk to him and figure out what the solution is.
Should I go on these drugs or not? I am not scared to and I probably think I should. But I want to hear what you guys have to say. Dr. Stoll that includes your opinion.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
Unless you are suicidal, Jason, I wouldnt go on the drugs.
Why dont you try and get to the root cause of these problems? Taking drugs is just a band aid type solution. I can see it being useful in certain situations. A relative of mine is suffering with postnatal depression, suicidal, and so she has to go on it for now. She is doing better, but your depression seems treatable, with therapy. You probably do have an anxiety problem.
Happygal has some great ideas for therapy ttechniques. You could go and see a pyschologist, but there are other techniques that are more interactive.
Post to her directly, and see if she can come up with something. So unless you are severely depressed, drugs are the easy way out, but in the long term solve nothing. Time to get int touch with your inner self, and heal your issues. Maybe your ex has done you a favour, in bringing your issues to the forefront, and now its time to heal them, and become strong in yourself.
Count yourself very fortunate you have so many people here giving you great advice, and that you can vent like this, and get different opinions. HOw blessed are you?! :)
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
i don't think i would refer to drugs as the "easy way out," because they won't lead to the way out for these issues. What about SR, evaluation of your nutritional status, and exercise? and check the archives for depression/anxiety.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
I think you'll have to figure this one out on your own based on your situation. Most of the advice you'll get here will be similar to Flower's. Zoloft IS a band-aid approach, etc., but it doesn't mean it might not be helpful. I've been on it for about 10 days now and it's too early to tell if it's helping. I tried the wellness approach for 3 1/2 years (I've been sick for 4 years). Meditating twice a day, exercising, and whole foods has helped me a lot. I'm a much calmer person and less anxious. However, I am still pretty sick, and there is no explanation for this other than emotional baggage. I don't think of myself as depressed, except for being depressed about always being sick. In fact, whenever I have a day where I am feeling well I'm always in a great happy mood. But I do continue to have some noticeable anxiety and I have awful setbacks with my health. I feel like I'm in a viscious cycle: I slowly start to get better and then have a setback and wind up where I started.
So I couldn't take this cycle anymore and my holistic doc suggested a low dose of zoloft and counseling due to what he suspected was depression. He started me on a low dose of 25 mg, and I hated it. I was extremely spacey and couldn't sleep. He reduced the dose to 12.5 mg and I've been fine on that except for a little trouble falling asleep at night. I realize that this isn't the answer. I think the counseling and continued wellness is the answer; however, I'm taking the zoloft hoping it will give me a chance to break this viscious cycle and then maybe I can start to get to the real cause through counseling and wellness. In some ways it is, ironically, a depressing approach because I feel like I'm putting my life and progress on hold for as long as I'm taking the zoloft. However, along with the counseling, if it breaks this viscious 4-year long cycle, then it will have been worth it for me.
I'm hoping to get off the zoloft in a month or two, if all goes well. So I'm not suicidal or extremely depressed, but I have been stuck for a long time without any progress. I think if the zoloft helps to settle down my insides and get me through the days with less anxiety, eventually it will be easier to get back on track naturally. So I think if you're extremely depressed or anxious, or if you've been stuck like me, maybe give it a try and see if it helps. But if you haven't given wellness much of a chance, it might be better to try that for awhile first.
Anyway, hope this helps; I'm sure Dr. Stoll and most others that wellness has worked for will disagree with what I've said.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
I do beleive I am blessed ain the fact that I can come on here and vent and get lots of feedback. But you know everybody has a different opinion and solution. But what is right for you my not be rigth for the next person. However genearl things are normall common.
I have only been depressed for a few months I would say but the anxiety goes further back. I do nto even know how far but I think it has been gettign worse.
I had heart murmers for a while over a year ago and after a full check up everyhting was fine. The GP doctor then diagnosed me with Panic Dissorder and suggested Zoloft but said it was my option. I said no to the drugs and said I am just goign to ignore the murmers. After a month or 2 they went away.
However I think the doctor was right and the anxiety was still there. Now it has begun to manifest itself in different ways and it is driving me crazy and makign me depressed along with the other stuff happining in my life.
I understand it is a band-aid. The psycologist would agree with that too. I think he is just suggesting it cause it will help me to do better when it comes to therapy and figuring out what the problem is and how to solve it.
I am seriously contemplating it. HE suggested a low dose and to only do it for about 3 months.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 11:37:01:
So - after three months, then what? Of course he's going to start with a low dose - because he's going to check and see how that effects you! And if you don't complain MUCH he'll probably increase the dose. I would not do it - but you know how I am LOL Write me later if you feel up to it.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
I had anxiety attacks for 5 years and would not go to the doc for drugs. I figured it out for myself with the help of Dr Stoll and this site. SR is the right way to go and I have magnesium too. You have to change your attitude and your response to stress. It is a hard mountain to climb but you can do it without drugs. I very nearly went to the doc once but didn't. There are other ways. I am over it now but still have to watch it. Cut out alcohol if you take it. It causes anxiety and depression, although it may give you a short lift. Not suggesting you do use it but some do to help them over anxiety for a quick relaxation. It works for a short time but then you start going down.
Also dont drink coffee or tea.
SR is the biggest help.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by Maz on August 01, 2003 at 16:33:14:
Magnesium is great - it changes my entire mood - I must really be zapped in it during pms..but it keeps me very even during that time. Jason should try a cal/mag or just a mag? What do you suggest? 1 in 2 women get osteo, but my md (holistic man) told me 1 in 4 men do! I was shocked!
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
Hi, Jason. After many years of struggling with anxiety and depression and thinking if I could just get a handle on it. But, finally decided to see family dr. about it--like he said for example if eyes are bad you can strain and strain and try to get a handle on it but to no avail. I began on 75 mg. Effexor XR and increased to l50 and in a short period of time I can not tell you the difference I feel inside as far as the anxiety goes-where I used to feel alot of times very anxious I don't ever feel that kind of anxiety anymore, never more than minor. It hasn't made all my problems go away, we still have to deal with life situations, but now I'm not dealing with that uncontrolable and horable anxiety I used to feel inside. I don't know if it is a chemical imbalance or what but I know I had no control over it as hard as I tried. I am a Christian person and I feel I most have experienced that for some reason-can't say what yet. I don't know if I'll always have to take the medicine but unless another better answer comes along I won't hesitate to take it because of the peace I now feel in my insides. I have things to learn and not saying I have all the answers but I believe as we put God first in our lives His plan unfolds and we become wiser and see more of the whys. I feel no effects from this medication other than the loss of anxiety. Of course nutrition and a healthy lifestyle contribute to our well-being. I think we individually have to seek God's answer to our problem because His way for one to handle the problem may in some ways be different for the next person. And, I think medicine can have it's place. And, if God chooses He can take care of it Himself without medicine. But, as I said I love the Lord and prayed many times for Him to heal me, thought having to go to the dr. and take the medicine could be embarassing-people would think I was crazy, but God has a plan for me and it wasn't the way I thought He should handle it. My prayer for you it that you will put your life in God's hand and trust Him with it. Seek Him for what He would have you do and go with it. God Bless You. Let Us Hear How You Do!!!!!!!!
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
Hi,Jason.
Everyone had good advice for you. I see no problem with taking the Zoloft for a few weeks to see if it helps--SO LONG AS YOU HAVE A REALISTIC IDEA OF THE PLACE THIS DRUG HAS IN YOUR LONG TERM PLAN.
Walt
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
Hi, onaly if you feel like you can't live with your depression, Drugs will only mask the condition and it will be hard to get off them. Also they all have side affects. I would try exerising as much as I could start slow and then build up like walking. Before I would try medication.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
I can understand how you feel. My only suggestion is exercise. If you start a rigorious exercise program (such as running, swimming, brisk walking, rock-climing, etc.) and stick to it, everyday, for about an hour, the depressive bouts will soon disappear quickly.
Taking good care of the body and regaining health can make one's mind much more resilient to depression (and other mental problems), I believe.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 02, 2003 at 17:39:12:
If only it were that easy. Was it for you? Did you have severe depression that lifted easily by exercise? I'd be amazed if you did, based on what I've been learning lately. Perhaps exercise can help with "depression bouts", but not with anxiety/depression that's been building up from a person's childhood.
This is new to me, too, and I'm learning a lot. I started taking a very low dose of zoloft about 2 weeks ago and also started working with a counselor. I'm also reading a book that's helping me understand all of this as well, and it's made me realize that what Jason is talking about and what I've been dealing with are very similar. It's not a "bout with depression," but an entire personality disorder due to some kind of toxic upbringing. I've been practicing all three legs of the wellness stool for years, but suddenly within the last two weeks, thanks to the readings, the counseling, AND by taking this drug, I've opened my eyes to a whole other aspect of my illness and what's been keeping me sick.
If you didn't have this kind of toxic upbringing, then there is no way you're going to be able to understand how a drug MIGHT be able to help break the thinking patterns that have led to illness, and provide a more stable place for which wellness to work.
Depression/anxiety comes from an inner child issue which requires some serious work to overcome. Here is a quote from the book that opened my eyes wide, regarding a parent that is not all he could be:
"The abused inmates of a concentration camp...are inwardly free to hate their persecutors. The opportunity to experience their feelings - even to share them with other inmates, prevents them from having to surrender their self...This opportunity does not exist for children. They must not hate their father...they cannot hate him...They fear losing his love as a result...Thus children, unlike concentration camp inmates, are confronted by a tormentor they love."
As I get further into this subject, it becomes amazingly apparent why I got sick, why I've stayed sick, why wellness alone hasn't worked, and that this board would be better if this kind of counseling was suggested more often and if the minds of the people offering help were not so locked into an anti-drug approach for some problems.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 02, 2003 at 22:18:43:
if the depression stems from a toxic childhood, how is taking a pill going to work towards solving that. I am all for the counselling idea, i justdont see how the drug side of it should be used because of an abusive chidhood thats taking its toll now? If you have a chemical imbalance, then taking a pill would help. Thats why I kinda think that, although jason now has brought up other issues besides his breakup, I think the main thing he is suffering from is a broken heart, IMHO.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 02, 2003 at 22:18:43:
"The abused inmates of a concentration camp...are inwardly free to hate their persecutors. The opportunity to experience their feelings - even to share them with other inmates, prevents them from having to surrender their self...This opportunity does not exist for children. They must not hate their father...they cannot hate him...They fear losing his love as a result...Thus children, unlike concentration camp inmates, are confronted by a tormentor they love."
So then if children arent allowed to hate their abusive parent, maybe what these children do is turn that hatred inwards on themselves, which in itself can cause severe depression later in life.
Thanks for sharing that. Its quite enlightening how powerful are emotions are on every aspect of our life.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 02, 2003 at 22:18:43:
That's a powerful quote you shared. May I ask what book that's from?
I'm so glad you have found some of your own connections between emotions and illness, some good stuff to read, and a counselor that are all working together to help you heal and move forward. It's pretty awesome when you see the light!
You are so right about this being a personality disorder, rather than just a case of being a little down in the dumps. Try not to think of it as a fault, though, but rather as a new awareness about the past that's come into your life to give you an opportunity to learn to limit yourself less in the future.
Bravo for you acknowledging the past and for taking these steps to learn from it and grow!
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- for Tired... posted by Nutmeg on August 02, 2003 at 23:26:56:
Hi Nutmeg,
Yes, it is awesome to "see the light." Things are starting to make sense plus I'm starting to feel that wounded child inside me that never got the chance to heal and grow. I'm still feeling that heavy burden, but I think I'm beginning to see and define the edges of that emotional boulder that's been sitting in my gut my entire life, holding me back (or down) in everything I've ever tried to do, and now as it takes form and I begin to understand it, I feel a little lighter and have some hope that I can eliminate those limitations. I recognize (or am beginning to) that it's not a fault at all. I always used to see the need for counseling as something some people needed, but that I was strong enough to figure things out on my own. I attached a stigma to the idea of needing counseling. Now it is amazing to me how much I needed this and wish I had done it years ago.
That quote really opened my eyes, as a part of me was feeling weak or dumb for needing counseling to get well when so many people have gone through horrors much worse than anything I experienced without getting ill, but now I can see that when a child isn't allowed to develop its own "self" there's not much chance for becoming a whole, healthy adult.
The book I'm reading is called Home Coming, Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child, by John Bradshaw. However, he didn't write that quote. He was quoting someone else's book called For Your Own Good by Alice Miller.
Here's to that new awareness...
In Reply to: Re: A Broken Heart--my 2 cents... posted by Flower on August 02, 2003 at 22:59:56:
Jason will have to figure out for himself whether the pill is necessary. I can only speak for myself. Maybe the counseling alone would be enough without the drug, but I doubt it (or at least I doubt the progress I'm making would come as quickly). I've been practicing wellness for more than 3 years without relief and I was stuck. This pill does not solve a toxic childhood. It's a short term bandaid to allow me a chance to get to the real cause. It feels like it is opening a door, or showing me that there is a door, and once I'm able to walk through it I'll be able to eliminate the drug and get to the real work that needs to be done to heal. I don't know if you can understand this without being in my shoes. Let me just say that when anxiety/depression is in the way, counseling, wellness approaches, reading, etc., all seem to be nothing more than beating your head against a wall because you can't get in the right place to overcome the anxiety/depression that is in the way and preventing healing. The drug, for me, seems to be putting me in the right place. It's getting the anxiety out of the way for awhile, giving me some peace, and allowing me the luxury to learn what I need to learn. I'm hoping to stop taking it in a month or two.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 02, 2003 at 22:18:43:
Yes, I suggested exercise to Jason for his depressive bouts, which was exacerbated by his recent relationship issues. I don't remember him mentioned any childhood problems or issues.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- for Tired... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 10:00:09:
i found it very heavy going that book by bradshaw, and not very straight forward, didnt understand a lot of it so I gave up on it. I know inner child work is powerful th. my last ssession with my previous therapits proved that. but its also extremely confronting to see how much damage has been done from childhood, and how parents dont realize how much they affect their children's lives. my therapist told me that the inner child directly affects how one treats their body. i kind of wonder if the damage that was done earlyier in chilhood, can ever be healed completely, or do we continue to walk around as wounded adults. on the outside, i seem fine, and even to myself, most of the time, i feel ok, but below the surface at certain times, there is a lot of fear there, childhood fear, because it feelslike a scared child feeling.
i think for all i have been through from my childhood, i have coped/adjusted pretty darn wel as an adult. my other family memebers often comment that its amazing we didnt end up as drug addicts or alcoholics because of what we went through during our ch ildhood. my caregiver was just like you described in that paragraph. a tormentor - no better description. but it has messed me up somewhat. i have suffered with depression, and have faced the possibility of going on drugs for the depression, but decided against it. i am much better now, through having dealt with some ofthe issues that were causeing so much inward anger. depression is anger turned within, and as children if we werent allowed to feel these negative emotions, they turned inward.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 10:36:55:
He's mentioned his anxiety, neediness issues in several posts, which stem from more than just his recent relationship problems. In fact, his recent relationship issues may very well have been caused by his personality, i.e., childhood, issues.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 10:59:05:
First, you don't know for sure whether he has a childhood issue or not.
Second, issues or not, exercise enhances health. Always.
Third, my suggestion of exercise doesn't exclude other ways of dealing with the situation, but rather, complement all the other suggestions.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- for Tired... posted by anonymous on August 03, 2003 at 10:38:33:
I definitely have had a lot of anger issues, and 3 years of wellness has helped with some of that. It's too early for me to debate the best approach for dealing with it. Right now, the low dose drug approach with counseling along with continued wellness feels right. I'm surprised you found you didn't understand much of the bradshaw book, especially since the rest of your message sounds almost like it came straight from the book. I find myself identifying with almost every page. I hope and think we can all heal that wounded child. I feel and believe it, and can't accept that we will walk around forever as wounded adults. You say you are better now, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but your message sounds sort of depressing. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or maybe you could use a better therapist. I've only met with mine twice, but I felt incredibly comfortable with her almost immediately. I suspect that is important if counseling is going to work.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 11:07:54:
First, I've read enough of his messages over the past several weeks to feel pretty confident that he has childhood issues. I suspect you haven't read them.
Second, I've always said the wellness approach, including exercise, is important. Again, you obviuosly haven't been reading all of the threads on these issues lately.
Third, your suggestion was off the cuff, dealing with "depression bouts." I simply pointed out, based on having followed these threads, that you were not in tune with what was being discussed over the past several weeks. Your comment suggested that you had not been following this thread and were not aware of the entire history. Therefore, I think my understanding of his issues, right or wrong, is much more appropriate than what you have suggested. And finally, I think I have stated in every post that he is the one that must decide on what is right for him. Its quite obvious that exercise is an important part of any approach.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 11:22:33:
If you agree that exercise is important for improving one's health, then great! That's exactly what I suggested to Jason!
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- for Tired... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 11:11:27:
interesting. i dont feel i am depressed. i know i do have self sabotage issues . lack of self love i surmise causes that.
i do know that i have strong issues regarding safety. personal safety. and often they can be ignited for the strangest of reasons, something can trigger it, or even nothing in particular, and i can feel very unsafe in my surroundings, or with the people around me for some reason. I get this weird feeling that something could happen to me at anytime, and i literally wil get goosebumps from the fear of personal danger. it happened to me just yesterday talking to a friend.its pretty strong, and defies explanation, so i know that something deeper is going on, something triggering my subconscious. there was physical abuse as achild, and i figure thats where this strong unsafe feeeling comes from.
i have taken a break from the therapist route for now.it helped me tremendously.it also incorporated the spiritual aspect in the counselling. i have yet to find another who was as good as my previous, but i am sure when i am ready, it will happen. i do feel quite wounded attimes inside, lots of anger too,but cover it over pretty well, even fool myself, but its there, alas. what can u do? so i cope as best as i can, and sometimes act like everything is ok, and you know, that works really well. acting like everything is ok, just certain times that are provoked issues to deal with.
i think i have suffer/suffered with manic depression. i am not 100 percent sure on that. but in the past i have suffered with the highs and lows, but this past year, i rarely have suffered with it, and now experience those occasional 'depressive bouts' you mentioned, and nothing more. i can handle it and control it.
thanks for sharing. its made me think more deeply. i may just re read that book, and see if its any clearer.
what made you change your mind on using counseling to tackle your issues?
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 12:00:12:
***I can understand how you feel. My only suggestion is exercise. If you start a rigorious exercise program (such as running, swimming, brisk walking, rock-climing, etc.) and stick to it, everyday, for about an hour, the depressive bouts will soon disappear quickly.***
u are backsliding, bing. u didnt just suggest an 'improvement in health' to jason , as u r now stating in your response here to "tired".
read your above statement to jason. you say, exercise for an hour everyday, and the depressive bouts will soon disappear quickly. disappear? that sounds more like a cure to me, rather than just an improvement in health, bing.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 12:00:12:
What you suggested to Jason was that his "depressive bouts will soon disappear quickly" by exercising. That's a pretty definitive (dare I say arrogant) statement that implies it is all he needs to do. I was pointing out that your statement was naive when considering all that was going on.
I'm NOT calling you arrogant or naive, just that you made a statement that could be perceived that way, something we are all guilty of from time to time. This issue just happens to be close to me right now, something I am dealing with intensely, and I see Jason as being a younger version of myself and in obvious need of guidance that includes counseling, wellness, and PERHAPS, some help from a drug if necessary. Telling him his troubles will melt away if he exercises is not what he needs to hear. If you would have told him to make sure he was getting his exercise as part of a more meaninful approach, we never would have had this exchange.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- for Tired... posted by anonymous on August 03, 2003 at 12:04:38:
Well, that's a tough question. The counseling was suggested by a holistic doctor I've been working with. In a way, I feel as if I've probably been waiting for almost 4 years for someone to make that suggestion, in effect, forcing me to do it. I defintely had attached a stigma to counseling that kept me from doing it on my own, but when it was suggested to me, at a time when I was once again experiencing an unexplainable setback in my health, well, it just hit home.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 12:00:12:
heh. my mistake. should've stayed away from depressive posts...now my super ego tells me smugly: "told you so..."
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 12:37:33:
Ok, here is an idea that nobody has suggested so faron this bb: qi gong practice can help improve depression (and other problems of the bodymind) quite dramatically. I just read a new study (from a doctorate dissertation). Fascinating!
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- a cutting-edge, new approach! posted by bing on August 03, 2003 at 12:45:44:
I think that is an excellent suggestion. It is high on my list of things to try.
Of course, for someone suffering from anxiety/depression, they first have to overcome the anxiety of going to a class and trying something new, which is why a low dose of a drug MIGHT help give the necessary push to get oneself to the qi qong class; then, hopefully, they can give up the drug shortly thereafter.
In Reply to: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think? posted by jason on August 01, 2003 at 10:14:14:
Hi Everyone,
I have just started reading a book called "The Brain Chemistry Diet" by Michael Lesser, M.D. and am really impressed.
He divides people into 6 types based on brain chemistry. You can figure out the type you are, then read the recommendations for diet, supplements, etc. It helps you stabilize your mood and attain maximum well-being without using prescription drugs. I am so impressed, because he described me so well (kind of like I've been observed under a microscope) and what he says totally echos all the experimention with diet and supplements I've been doing over the last 2 years and longer.
I think this book might be especially helpful for many of you who have been on this website looking for answers. At any rate, I'd be interested to hear what any you think of it!
Highly recommended!
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 02, 2003 at 22:18:43:
Although some of that is true, it is not always the case. Brain chemistry changes over time - it's never stagnent, and emotions are handled or not handled with ease...so, the trick isn't always to look at the inner child (though some therapists love that old school stuff), I think it's far more productive to just take a look at the here and now, and work on solving problems with more positive results - short and long term. Exercise is a very valuable way to handle stress AND to help with brain chemistry changes. It not only produces viable chemicals in the body to counteract negative chemcials being released by anxiety/depression, but also gives a quick-fix far faster than a drug like Zoloft can produce! Also - Exercise when done correctly, produces no ill effects or long term problems - it's FDA approved and you don't need a prescription!
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 12:29:19:
I think the statement that it would quickly improve him [being jason] in bouts of depression is pretty on the mark. The problem is that most people who have depression don't have the motivation to exercise but popping a pill is a quick, and yet, usually non-effective and usually non-exerting avenue. The big issue with Jason isn't actually depression if you really look...it's anxiety which has caused some physical issues and some depression that he weaves in and out of, so, exercise would in fact, be that quick fix he is looking for. He'd have less depression due to the release of anxiety and increase of postive chemicals per brain chemistry, meanwhile on the longterm, be able to work on his anxiety issues. His relationship failure was due to things we may never know but one thing we do all know, is that it may have simply been "two people growing apart" and he is upset, rightly so. It also could have been that he was clingy due to his anxiety issues - in either case, the productive avenue would be to work on himself - and nothing beats diet, exercise and self reflection (sr) to bring someone to wellness.
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- Drughs to help what do you think?--my 2 cents... posted by non depressive on August 03, 2003 at 12:18:48:
I think that Bing was very on the mark. Not only can it bring bouts of depression to an end, but it CAN cure.
Also, exercise is a form of meditation in some forms, and after a while, even if he [Jason] does not meditate per se, he will find the benefits of exercise to relieve stress equally rewarding in self reflection. It will give him also an energy boost that will enable him to have the inner strength to face any issues he has to face, as well as another avenue to focus upon. Exercise physically can strengthen the body to the point of building muscle, decreasing stress (one of the biggest causes of all physical issues) and yes, cure bouts of depression. I've seen people change their lives by changing their stimulations or lack of.
In Reply to: Re: A Broken Heart--my 2 cents... posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 10:13:04:
True, that anxiety can keep a hold on counseling and growth - but if the anxiety and depression is aggressively approached, no - that's not always or often the case. With therapists, often one has to realize that they are touching on a lot of topical issues sometimes over the course of more than a year, just to understand the patient or clients style of solving, style of emotions and so on. Group therapy is another avenue which is often helpful for a therapist to help a client, as it allows the therapist to really look at how the person works in a group, how the person fits themself into the mechanics of the group and if there is growth with others.
Alot of times the therapist asks a lot of questions about childhood not because they neccessarily think all issues are based there, but because it's number one, usually easier for people to talk about things from a time ago rather than more recent - and also, it does give clues (not answers) to what is going on with the person sometimes. Therapists are taught more to not take the persons verbiage to stone so to say - as perceptions can be distored, especially youth/childhood memories - but, it is how the person does percieve - so they take that and what is happening "now" and tries to make connections. It isn't always a "childhood issue" than a "childhood perception" - dealing with the perception(s) is the answer.
So, although a lot of what you state is true - there are some loose ends there as well. If the real issue is anxiety (which a lot of people don't realize they even have when they see the therapist, or the extent in which they do)then the answer is to directly work on the anxiety....it isn't always about the "Anxiety de Jour" but to show the person that there are ways to change patterns, thus when situations occur, the perceptions are not distorted and more readily handled. Oh geesh, I'm tired from writing that! LOL
In Reply to: Defense to Bing posted by Michele on August 03, 2003 at 17:52:00:
Well said, Michele.
Of course, no everyone can see the incredible--almost miraculous--benefits of exercise for the bodymind...
In Reply to: Re: Depression/Anxiety- a cutting-edge, new approach! posted by Tired on August 03, 2003 at 13:18:37:
FYI, I teach qi gong--both the practice AND the theory behind it (in terms of western science). Let me know if you need any help.
In Reply to: Re: Not all dep/anx come from child issues...my 2 cents... posted by Michele on August 03, 2003 at 17:42:53:
I never said or meant to imply that it was always the case. I've said in almost every post that Jason would have to decide for himself what is the best approach for him. I've also said that wellness was important in every post, and by wellness I've assumed that most people here know that exercise is a part of the wellness approach.
The main reason I've been posting lately is because almost everyone on this board is anti-drug to an extreme. I have been one of them for the past few years. I've been exercising almost daily for 4 years, meditating twice a day, on a whole foods diet, using homeopathic remedies and various supplements, working with a holistic practitioner and a nutritionist, gone through numerous protocols (to many to mention) and still experiencing major setbacks with my health. Now I'm learning something new that feels right for me, and so I've been attempting to share it and offer a viewpoint that doesn't always go along with the usual on this board. After 4 years of being ill and stuck in a viscious cycle, being told over and over again that holistic practices were the "only way," I suddenly gave into trying zoloft, based on a holistic doc's advice, because I was extremely tired of failure. I don't like having to take a drug, but since I've been on it I have experienced something new which I have not felt in a long time: hope.
I'm also learning from this counselor and this book and it's making great sense to me, and that is all I can report: My experience. For more than 3 years I've been practicing meditation and even had it certified through biofeedback, and I have seen benefits. But the viscious cycle continued. An early mantra I used in meditation was "let it go, let it all go." I was trying to let go of the stress and anxiety that I was experiencing. Now I am beginning to realize that this mantra, even if it managed to get me to the relaxation response stage, could never work at healing what truly needed to heal, because I didn't understand what I was trying to let go of. How can you let go of something if you don't know what it is you are holding on to?
You can call the inner child work old school stuff, but it's proving to be extremely meaningful to me. Your description of "look at the here and now," frankly rings hollow and superficial. I'd be interested in learning more about what your approach is if you can describe it in more meaninful terms.