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Have you ever wanted to hang on to a bothersome feeling? There's something that has bothered me for a long time, and it was stirred up during a conversation with a relative today. I thought to myself, "I could probably get rid of the emotional problem with EFT." But then I realized I didn't want to let go of it. Instead, I wanted to have a reason to get angry. It felt somewhat strange that I was making a decision to keep a bothersome feeling. I wonder if there are many people who suffer with their problems because they more or less consciously choose to. You want to feel good and be happy but choose not to. Have any of you experienced something similar?
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
I think what might be happening with you is that there is a layer of anger already sitting deep down inside you. It is most likely a result of your upbringing. So when things on the surface appear and give you cause to be angry, your lower layer tells you to keep these vehicles around so that your anger can be expressed, over and over. And anger doesn't always have to be out and out confrontation, it can be passive aggressive too.
Anyway,it's the lower, subconscious layer that you have to address. Dig into your childhood, I bet there are some feelings and experiences that you have buried, that could tell you a lot about what is happening with you right now!
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
Hi R.
I can relate.
I have a similar inner situation going on. I pretty much ignore the issue, but undoubtedly a situation arises (like yours) that provokes those same feelings of insecurity/anger that I have carried around for a long time. Now, I just accept it. It is what is. And when its ready to move on, it will. No point stressing about it. I have conquered other emotional issues through healing, although this one is a toughie.
Maybe sometimes, R., FEELING THE EMOTION that is provoked, and just staying with the feeling in its entirety can help; not meaning we want to wallow in it though.
I heard about this technique somewhere how it helps to move the emotions out of your body quicker by focusing on the negative/stuck emotions and just letting them be in your body, and not trying to block them out. So in other words, DONT do ANYTHING that will make you not feel or want to try to block whatever it is you are feeling; your emotions AND the phsycial feelings/symptoms that your emotions arouse in your body. Focus on it, and also focus on where in your body you can feel the anger or the sadness, or the hurt, which part of your body is it exhibiting itself.
Dont turn on loud music to distract you, or exercise to get rid of it, just FEEL whatever it is, and allow it to be. Kind of very similar in a way to your echomagnet.
Even laying down on a bed for a short time will help you focus more on where the emotion is expressing itself in your body.
If you can do this, and stay with the feeling, it will pass rather than trying to distract yoursself from the emotion, which essentially is stuffing down your emotions till the next time/episode happens.
So say you feel anger. Your body feels all hot and bothered; anxious, or you can feel deep emotional pain in your solar plexus, or some people can be so angry, they can be blind with fury right, or sadness that is gutwrenching? Emotions are so strong they can affect the body like this. So focus on that feeling, and watch as it passes of its own accord without you forcing it to disappear; let it do so of its own volition.
I wish I could remember where I heard about focusing on the emotion, along with the physical feeling it brings to your body. Oh yeah, it was on one of the Centerpointe Cd's that they mail out. heh. Knew I could remember it~! :)
Another technique I heard about a while ago, and it actually worked was where you magnify the feeling to an exaggerated extent in your mind. I am not sure how specifically it works, but it worked really well for me.
I was upset from some incident, and kept constantly replaying the incident in my mind which kept provoking the negative emotion;which was getting me nowhere, and draining me of energy and giving me a headache. kind of like monkey mind they call it.
So anyway in my mind, I exaggerated the feelings that the event provoked within me; magnified it out of all proportion (the feeling), and to my surprise, very shortly after it stopped replaying itself (the event) in my mind, and the emotion also left real quick, and so did the physical feeling that it had produced. Sorry if I havent explained this one well,but it really worked well to help bring control back, instead of replaying a particular negative event over and over in my mind, and causing myself misery.
It seems alot of these healing techniques focus on allowing or giving permission for our feelings to just be. Instead of stuffing them down, blocking them out, or distracting our minds from them. This seems to be the main theme on healing emotions.
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
Sometimes hanging on to an emotion, even if you see it as negative, is quite healthy. Just because you percieve it as unhealthy doesn't mean it is so; and it could quite well be something that is fueling healthy responses in the long run for you. It's possible this is what is happening.
Another option here is that you don't see a reason to let go of this emotion, therefore, getting rid of it is almost maddening - it's better to keep it (in your mind).
Sometimes wanting to feel anger or what is percieved as negative is actually very valid - and healthy.
On another note, maybe you do need to work on more SR or emotional release techniques if this IS in fact, negative.
Just thoughts.
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
InMyHumbleOpinion may have something there, R. There are many angers that you are not "allowed" to express as a kid. So they get suppressed, until a similar situation comes along where you are more free to express both that and the original anger.
I believe there is something to the notion that anger is fear turned outward. Some insecurity is usually at the root of all expressions of anger, the more virulent, the more disquieting the fear is.
Some of may be from General F.U.D. Or for a real eye-opener, you might try looking at everything that happens here on the board as inconsequential. This is a good exercise in detachment, so you can see that you arbitrarily assign values to issues, in effect making them issues. Since you "choose" what it is that makes you angry or sad or whatever emotion you choose to express, you can just as easily choose to NOT express it as well, especially if you are aware that you are doing so.
This board is an excellent place to do so, since you can slow down the process enough to "see" what it is that upsets you and follow the reaction back to the source.
Once you can do that, you should be able to do it in real-time like when you are engaged in a conversation, and you feel your ire rising.
An example: On the The president is a retard Bush for President In 2004 thread, my biggest fear at the personal level is that my livelihood is threatened. Logically I know that my skills are in demand independent of the economy, yet at the same time the perception persists that if the economy is doing poorly (which it is) then companies that usually hire companies like mine, will forgo doing so, again, under the perception that the money isn't there to fund the projects that they need done. This is the same sort of thought the powers the stock market where perception more than reality determines what happens, and thus "creates reality."
This is not to say the economy isn't in the crapper. It is, and a it is a linkage that can be followed up to the international level if you desire. I am simply showing you my fear, which powers my posting on that thread. I'm not particularly proud of it, and "I'm working on it." L
There is of course the view, somewhat contradictory that your anger defines you and lets you know you're alive -anger being close to passion. Of course you can be happy and passionate also, but most people link anger and passion, or at least strong emotion. Maybe something sexual, but I'm not going to go there, OK? Just mentioning it is passing.
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
Hi R.
I agree that you may have restimulated some old unrelated anger. Another possibility, which I think is more likely actually, is that you have a different issue with this person that is unresolved, and that is why you want a reason to get angry at them. It is worthy of introspection to see if you can figure it out!
Best wishes,
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
I think it's true that sometimes we hang on to a negative emotion, even a sickness, because it can be comforting. It can be easier to stay sick than to face reality; easier to stay home in our comfort level than go out into the world to fight with the masses. I suspect that is the bottom line with what you are asking. We often bury and repress our anger because we want to be nice, instead of listening to it and letting it guide us in the direction we want to take. Of course, too many people also act out that anger, instead of listening to what it's trying to tell them.
You recently posted about the benefits of writing to heal. Being a writer, this exercise speaks to me more than it might some, but it is a great tool for exploring why you want to hold on to that anger, and to what it's trying to tell you. Maybe you're angry at that person and want to hold onto that anger because you have a right to be angry, but haven't figured out what is being repressed in yourself because of the cause of that anger.
To simplify, we can stay angry at our father because he abused us and made us into something we don't like. We have a right to be angry with him, but deep down we are also angry at ourselves for not being what we want to be. Instead of doing the hard work to change, we stay in our comfort level and hold onto the anger as an excuse for what we are. If we listened to the anger, we could figure out that it's telling us we have the power to change, and what the necessary change is.
Anyway, I'm not sure if that is of any help, but its my 2 cents worth.
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
Hi R:
I sometimes hang on to negative feelings but only when the issue bothering me hasn't been resolved, or hasn't been resolved to MY satisfaction.
Maybe you could ask yourself if the issue bothering you was resolved to your satisfaction. If it wasn't, then figure out what needs to be done so that in the end YOU will have been satisfied with the outcome. Someone else may be satisfied, but until you are also satisfied, you'll still feel anger and/or resentment.
Also, there's nothing wrong with confronting the individuals involved in your retention of those bothersome feelings. You can confront without being combative, but with diplomacy.
If you are dealing with relatives, then that is more of a challenge since they expect you to behave a certain way. Even in modern families, there is still a "pecking order". As the youngest child in my family, I am still (at my age) expected to be sweet and pleasant, and all that nonsense. I put a stop to that several years ago, even though they sometimes revert back to their old ways and attempt to tell me how to run my life. I just put them back in their places as a friendly reminder that I'm an adult now:-)
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling - Step Back posted by Gregory on September 29, 2003 at 07:22:28:
cool effects Gregory.....
In Reply to: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling posted by R. on September 29, 2003 at 00:02:12:
From the perspective of TCM, emotions have a physical aspect and are closely connected to different organs or body parts. So when the physical side of a particular emotion is not well, it's very difficult to get rid of the emotional problem. Sort of like being fat: in order to get rid of the extra fat, just by sheer intention in the mind won't do the job; one HAS to combine the mental intention with the physical hard work (right diet and exercise, etc.) The same thing is true with anger (and all the other negative emotions). Both TCM and my own experience tell me that when one works on the physical side of the problem correctly, the emotional, mental sides will take care of themselves as a result. I'm sure the other approaches as suggested by the others here will work also, but maybe not as easily and as effectively.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 29, 2003 at 19:06:19:
But it seems to me sometimes you have to get the mental aspect straightened out before you can find the willpower to do the physical work. How can one do the physical work correctly if they have no motivation to do so because of mental/emotional baggage. A fat person, for instance, knows they should do the hard work (eat better and exercise) but a mental block (usually emotional baggage) keeps them from doing so. They are filling themselves up to fulfill some emotional need. If they could make themselves do the physical work correctly, perhaps the emotional baggage would be released, but too often the emotional baggage prohibits the physical work. Once the mental block is resolved, it becomes easier for them to want to do the hard work. From my own experience, once I released some emotional baggage, I had a greater desire to live more holistically, and it became easier to do so.
Of course, a combination of techniques, I would think, would be best.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by FW on September 29, 2003 at 19:45:11:
How about stopping smoking? I think this, too, must be dealt with mentally prior to being able to quit.
Any suggestions/explanations using TCM?
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by FW on September 29, 2003 at 19:45:11:
The thing is, the mental attitude should be there already for ANY change to take place, both physical and mental. I mean, one has to start with a desire to get healthy, right? This desire is the correct mental attitude, which motivates one to implement the specific measures for change. So from there on, diet and exercise is by far the easiest approach. I did say that other ways will work, but just not as easily, effectively. I'm one of those who prefer the easy way than the hard way.
Both mental block and emotional baggages are also symptoms of physical imbalance which can be easily resolved through the right diet and exercise. To get rid of the mental block and the baggages, other approaches probably will also work, but just much more slowly, and much more costly, and may or may not bring the desired results.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 29, 2003 at 20:05:27:
But that's the point I'm trying to make, but struggling to describe: the mental attitude should be there and maybe is there, and the desire to change is even strong, but the emotional baggage is just too heavy. And if you don't know what the emotional baggage is, you have no chance to lift it up and off your shoulders.
For instance, if one overeats and is fat because they associate food with intimacy (such as those two characters you know so well, Eric and Patty), they may want to exercise and change their lives but can't stop eating. Once they understand that they are eating for emotional reasons, and are able to overcome and release those emotional reasons through emotional therapy of some kind, then they can find the motivation to stop eating.
From my own experience, physical imbalances are due to an inappropriate lifestyle. And the lifestyle problems are due to emotional issues. From my experiences with TCM, which is with both American and Chinese practitioners, the TCM was ineffective with emotional issues even after numerous sessions. Certainly even the Chinese practioner I worked with might not have been a good one, and so perhaps a good practioner could use a technique that helps to unblock emotional baggage that I'm not familiar with. For me, what TCM can accomplish is a mystery, but I would still wonder how it could release this kind of emotional blockage without assistance from some kind of mental recognition/therapy. So for my money, the easier method is to work on the emotional issue, because I see little chance of TCM working by itself. But then again, I'm just more knowledgeable/aware of working on emotional issues than I am about tcm. I'm still a fan of TCM, and wish I could afford it more often, as I would continue to use it on a regular basis.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by FW on September 29, 2003 at 21:03:31:
Even for Eric and Patty, it's far easier to tackle the physical side first, by starting the right kind of whole foods diet. Here is why: their overeating is chiefly a result of not getting enough nutrients their body needs. If you study each nutrient carefully, you'll see the lack of many vitamins and minerals invariably LEAD TO/CAUSE people to overeat AND store fat, and suffer a whole variety of mental, emotional, psychological, spiritual problems. Remember, the physical body always comes first. Many people like to think that it is the mental, emotional side that cause health problems but actually it's not. It's sort of like the immune system: people with stronger immunity don't catch bugs even when exposed to them, while those with a weak system not only catch them but also breed their own. The same thing is true with the mental/emotional side. Sure, to work on emotional issues would help, but it doesn't solve the problem, because you are fixing the symptom, not the cause. For example, for the same emotional trauma, say the death of a loved one, different people respond to it differently. Some grief, mourn, heal, let go, and move on. Some dwell on it for years and still can't let go. Why? Because the latter have physical imbalances that make it impossible to resolve these issues, and their over-long grief is just a symptom, not the cause. To tackle the root of the problem, the easier approach is to achieve physical health first and consequently the emotional sumptoms will disappear on its own. If the physical side is not worked on, no matter how much shrink one sees, the root cause is still there.
From what I know about TCM in this country, it's not a happy picture. I hate to burst your bubble but most of the practioners are after money. In the area of herbal medication, for instance, they prescribe those same processed concoctions to just about every patient, regardless of their symptoms. If people don't heal, they always come back. Or they switch to a different practioner. Just for the record, I have never, ever, suggested seeing a TCM practioner; but I have been suggesting everyone learn the basics of TCM on their own, because it'll provide valuable tools of health that'll benefit them for the rest of their lives.
The real benefit of TCM is food therapy--the safest, most effective method for just about every disease/ailment/imbalance, even cancer and aids. But it's very difficult to spread this word of true wisdom because it's against the grain of money/profit-making, and against our global capitalism. From a year ago since I first came to the board, I have been suggesting the book "Healing with Whole Foods" which is the closest to telling the truth about food, health, and nutrition than just about all the books on health on the market (Yes, I've studied most of them, over the period of 8+ years--more than long enough for me to get another PH.D). This book is close to 80% of telling the whole truth about health, unlike all the other health books that tell only 20-30% of truth at best. So if one absorbes the gist of this book and implement it in their life, then there is really no need for doctors--allopathic, holistic, and what else--except for ER kind of medical attention. Better yet, the approach of whole food therapy will reduce one's grocery bills at least by half. But alas, very few people even bother to give it a try. So maybe you were right in saying that sick people don't really want to heal, because they don't want to take the responsibility of taking charge of their health without any cost. After all, if they don't throw tons of money into their health issues, how else are they going to spend their money? I know it sound bizarre but modern life IS bizarre anyway...
Sometimes, I just can't understand why people don't SEE things that's so clearly spelled out in front of them, about health, about life, about happiness, about the human condition...sigh.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 29, 2003 at 22:27:14:
Bing, if you read some material, including case reports, about EFT (www.emofree.com), you might change your view of what comes first, mental/emotional or phisical, and how quickly one can permanently resolve long standing emotional (and even phisical) problems in a very short period of time.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 29, 2003 at 19:06:19:
In my case, the anger comes from a certain attitude to certain things. I have been able to eliminate emotional/mental issues, in my past, almost instantaneously by realizing something and without changing anything in my phisical body. I strongly believe that mind itself can create problems, and they can be healed by addressing the mind. Or this can be done on the energetical level, as with EFT.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 29, 2003 at 22:27:14:
Although I believe there is a lot of truth in what you have said, I don't see how that could be true for everyone. For instance, if I am understanding you correctly, how can you say a child, being abused by a parent, has emotional problems due to improper nutrition? The parents may be feeding the child an improper diet, but most parents in this country feed their children improper diets and not all children have emotional problems. The root cause of the abused child's emotional issues is the parental abuse, which leads to other bad habits such as eating improperly. That child then grows up with bad dietary habits and poor nutrition from both causes: being fed improperly but also from the parental abuse. So now that abused child, as an adult, must eat properly to make up for the nutritional deficiencies, but in most cases can't stop those bad habits because they haven't dealt with the parental abuse they received as a child.
Even in the case of a child that is eating whole foods, but is being emotionally abused by its parent, that child is going to have emotional issues of some kind. They may grow up eating right, but will still be scarred from that parent's emotional abuse, which will most likely manifest itself in some way as a bad habit, such as excessive drinking, smoking, promiscuity, having sex with sheep, creating fictional characters on a holistic website, challenging bing...:-)
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by FW on September 30, 2003 at 08:59:24:
No, the root cause of child abuse from the parent is from bad diet and bad lifestyle of the parent. I can't imagine any healthy, happy, intelligent parent would ever abuse their child, period.
I see that I'm talking about this topic in a general sense, while you are focusing on individual case(s).
The sheep part made me laugh. heh. Perhaps cris should add this to her list of things those sheep of hers waiting to be culled for...
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 00:13:34:
Sure, and there are even faster ways than that to get rid of merely the symptoms. But I'm only interested in ways that tackle the root cause of the problem.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 09:47:34:
No, the root cause of child abuse from the parent is from bad diet and bad lifestyle of the parent. I can't imagine any healthy, happy, intelligent parent would ever abuse their child, period.
You are talking about different things. FW was talking about the cause of the child's emotional problem, but you are talking about the reason why parents might abuse the child. In the former case, the cause is the parental abuse, not nutritional deficiencies, and in the latter it is whatever (could be being abused by their parents, nutritional deficiencies, or anything else you might think of).
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 09:52:11:
So am I, and I think that EFT can be used to remove the root cause, not just symptoms. And how would you determine which is removed, by the way?
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 12:38:33:
Yea, I mentioned this in my post already: FW and I were talking about different aspects of child abuse (see the second paragraph of my earlier post). I approached it as a general topic, attempting to eradicate this strange phenomenon altogether, while he was focusing on the specific case of one child. In other words, I was looking at the whole forest while he was looking at one tree. Both are valid, I think.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 12:40:39:
If so, then you are contradicting with your original post.
How to determine: well, if the root cause is gone, one will rarely experience anger. It's like no matter what happens, one can always find something positive, even amusing about a nasty situation. Most of the times, one just laugh it off. It's like nothing can make you angry. In the rare few cases when anger does appear, it can easily resolve itself quickly.
But if you only fix the symptoms without fixing the root cause, then you still get angry easily and have to work on it each time to get rid of that anger. But it'll keep popping up again and again. So, to me, this is the hard way.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 18:23:16:
Maybe both are, but in different aspects. And yours isn't useful much for those whose problems stem from certain views of the world. Thoughts do cause emotions and action, mind you.
Actually, your first reply wasn't on topic. I was talking about not feeling like eliminating the anger, not being unable to. I appreciate your input, but I realy didn't intend this thread to turn into a general discussion of problems that people might go through and how to solve the world's problems.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 18:33:52:
How am I contradicting my original post?
If there's a certain event a memory of which (or which reminds somebody of something that produces disturbing feelings) that bothers somebody, and some therapy permanently eliminates unpleasant feelings related with the situation in question, then I think that the root cause for this particular emotional problem has been removed.
I am relatively very difficult to disturb; however, as I've mentioned already, certain attitude to certain behaviour of people do relate to me somehow that cause me to feel unpleasant feelings. Considering that I eat relatively well, the nutritional approach seems inpractical to me. I've eaten different ways during my whole life, and certain things have always bothered me. I really don't think you can solve everyone's problems by changing the way they eat. Mind has a huge effect on one's feelings and actions. Your view seems upside down to me.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 19:00:05:
True; however, an interesting thread usually goes beyond the original poster's intention. I'm sure you must have noticed how sometimes a harmless little post can develop/be developed into a huge "warfare." So even though you didn't intend to solve the world's problems, *I* find it important to vary your theme by pointing out that humans don't have to repeat the same old mistake over and over again. In this case, if parents begin to realize that just by changing their unhealthy diet and lifestyle, they can clean up their lives and become healthy, and then they wouldn't have to abuse their own children to release their unhealthy emotions. As a result, children will grow up in a healthy family environment, which in turn, will nurture them into healthy adults and there starts the virtuous cycle, instead of the vicious cycle of abuse and ill health and ruined lives for generations to come. I hope ypou agree with me.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 19:08:37:
Yea, I agree: your view seems upside down to me, too. heh heh.
But seriously, let me repeat yet once again: I've never said or even implied that other ways don't work, or mine is the only way. What I said has been this: from what I have read in the thousands year old TCM materials, and my closely observed first-hand and second-hand experiences, what I have found is that IT IS A LOT EASIER and A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE TO ACHIEVE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL HEALTH THROUGH THE RIGHT DIET (AND EXERCISE).
I have never denied the power of the mind, but it's just so much easier and faster to work on the physical side. If you can work on both at the same time, so much the better.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 19:33:00:
I wish I had more time right now to argue with you. So, I will give you my last argument, hoping that it will persuade you to change your position -- YOU ARE WRONG! Hopefully, someone else will pick up where I left off.
In Reply to: Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective posted by bing on September 30, 2003 at 19:16:32:
This is my thread, and it is copyrighted, patented, and guarded with wild, angry, poorly fed cyber dogs that will tear you apart and feast on your innards. Keep out and don't steal my thunder, Bing!
On another note, I agree with you that good nutrition is useful and will allow people to deal
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Follow Ups:
Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective
Posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 20:20:20:
Follow Ups:
Re: Not wanting to let go of a bothersome feeling--another perspective
Posted by R. on September 30, 2003 at 20:53:03: