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ADHD

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ADHD

Posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:

How do you help someone with ADHD? My twin boys have been on medication for this since they were 2 1/2. They take medication to stay calm during the day, and medication to sleep at night. They are eight-years-old and facing expulsion from their school for the rest of this school year for beating up another child (third time-different child-this year). We have a court hearing Monday for assault.

Please help us!

Cyndi



Re: ADHD

Posted by on December 09, 1999 at 09:36:36:

In Reply to: ADHD posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:

Discipline will get their attention. There is NO excuse for something a child knows to be wrong unless they are mentally retarded.



Re: ADHD

Posted by sg on December 09, 1999 at 09:39:04:

In Reply to: ADHD posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:

Medication is only treating the symptoms, not the underlying cause of ADHD.



Re: ADHD

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on December 09, 1999 at 10:03:14:

In Reply to: ADHD posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:

I'm sure Dr. Stoll will have something to say about this. He would know where we have discussed this earlier. I'm having difficulty categorizing ADHD for pointing out the right article, archive, etc. I used our search engine on ADHD and found about 10 references here to it. Searching for ADD, I got over 100, but I did not wade thru them.

In the meantime, I found an older archived discussion here http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/testi/t071998.html in which another web site http://www.latitudes.org (linked below) was highly recommended for ADHD information.

Hope this helps till Walt gets in.
RHJ++



Re: ADHD

Posted by
Eileen on December 09, 1999 at 12:08:41:

In Reply to: ADHD posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:


Cyndi,

Diet and exercise play a large part in how ADHD kids function, but that is true for the larger population as well. ADHD kids usually have trouble with 'focus' - they're thoughts are scattered and they can't concentrate on any one thing for long. You want to help them 'tame' their rapid-fire minds. I'm not for drugs unless it is an emergency. Ritalin is, I believe, categorized as a 'stimulent' (some people say they have had some luck with coffee also - it seems to react oppositely with the brain chemistry of some ADD kids and helps them slow down). However, there is a book called Meditating With Children, The Art of Concentration and Centering by Deborah Rozman (I found a used 1975 copy although I think that Amazon.com has the new edition) that is well worth looking at. I believe Dr. Stoll mentioned this book on his BB a few months back. I am securing an additional copy for a friend who also has an ADHD kid. You might try this. Good luck!



Re: ADHD (There IS a solution.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 10, 1999 at 10:12:37:

In Reply to: ADHD posted by Cyndi on December 09, 1999 at 08:48:49:

Hi, Cyndi.

This is one of the crimes of the AMA. The causes of ADHD, and the aggressive behavior associated it, have been known for 30 years in the world scientific literature. It is only because there is a LOT more money in treatment than there is in education (the solution to the problem) that this knowledge has not been integrated into standard medical practice!

My book has a chapter just about this subject and the references in the back that would take you to what the world knows about this. Pay particular attention to the references in my book: "Diet, Crime & Delinquency" by Alexander Schauss, PhD, "Nutrition and the Mind" by Gary Null, PhD and "Brain Allergies" by William Philpott, MD---
although there are many other references about this there.

You might be interested in "The Stable Criminal Syndrome", so well known by veterinarians, since it is at least contributing to the problem.

This would have been SO easy to resolve before the age of 4. However, now they have the psychological overlay of having lived so long with the brain chemistry problems that instituted the condition. STILL, you really have no choice but to deal with the original chemical problem since counseling will not resolve the psychological overlay part without the chemical problem being dealt with first.

THEN, let us know what you learn along with the questions you will surely have.

As your children revert back to normal, I hope you will share your experiences with the BB participants since there are MANY kids out there whose parents are desperately trying to cope when they are getting no help from the conventional medical profession.

Walt



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 10, 1999 at 10:16:01:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD posted by on December 09, 1999 at 09:36:36:

I need people to know that I STRONGLY disagree with this statement. I have routinely seen children totally change their behavior within 2 weeks of just a perfect elimination of refined carbohydrates diet.

Walt



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by on December 10, 1999 at 10:58:13:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by Walt Stoll on December 10, 1999 at 10:16:01:

This is an, "It's not my fault" society. Everything today is the fault of something else. There is no longer any accountablity. I agree that ADHD is from refined sugar, preservatives in the diet, foods containing salicylates, phosphorus, etc. It is a real condition that exists but when will they be held accountable for their actions. Is everything they do, the fault of ADHD. That is my only point, even though hyperactive, they know right from wrong. What if they seriously injure another child, maybe worse than they already have? When does it become their fault? ADHD is NOT mental retardation. How far can it go? How long do you medicate a child? ADHD could be overly diagnosed in order to be an excuse for poor parenting. Then it is ADHDs fault their child is a monster and not their fault for not being home at night or whatever it is they do that isn't good for the child. Kids can also use this as an excuse and play it up for what it is worth in order to get away with stealing, violence, etc.




Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by
Kyra on December 10, 1999 at 12:19:30:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by on December 10, 1999 at 10:58:13:


Here's yet another perspective on ADHD...I have 2 kids, one in kindergarten and the other in third grade. Since I spend a fair amount of time helping out in their classrooms I get an excellent opportunity to observe classroom behavior at large. It seems to me that there's a disproportionate number of hyperactive kids in both classes. Some I know are medicated for ADHD; others are gutting it out on their own. Two cases stand out clearly. One incredible and long-suffering mother has 2 sons with ADHD. This woman and her equally gentle husband are not the type to produce "monsters" or enable such behavior. She's at her wits end and was practically in tears when I had to tell her about something her son had done to my son. She's tried everything in the book, conventional medicine-wise and wholistically, and is finding that the only things that work are a combination of homeopathy and elimination of sugar from diet. Even so, it's a struggle for her sons. The other mother I know has two ADHD sons out of three. Her kids play with my kids all the time. She's wonderful, but hasn't been able to make the connection between sugar and behavior. I wonder...

At any rate, I've spoken to my sons' teachers over the last four years since my eldest was in kindergarten about what I observe as the seemingly growing number of hyperactive kids in their classrooms. They sigh, agree that my observations are correct and that it's becoming an epidemic problem that they're not equipped to control.

All I can surmise is that the lousy, processed food- and sugar-heavy diet that most kids are assaulted with, and that their parents were assualted with, has caused this epidemic of abnormal behavior. If you (generically speaking) were conceived into a uterus with a placental pipeline of junkfood, I would imagine that significant biochemical, neurological, and even genetic alterations could take place before you even had a chance to vote on what went into your mouth. So now we have a frightening number of "ADHD" (Abnormal Diet is a Harbinger of Disaster) kids who have been so dietarily screwed up that I wonder if even a "perfect diet" can fully address their needs. I have no doubt that the current wave of shool shootings is related to the aberrations elicited by the average American diet.

Are there kids who are out-of-control defiant monsters with no parental control? Sure, lots of them. And they're eating the same crappy diet.



Re: ADHD" (Abnormal Diet is a Harbinger of Disaster)

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on December 10, 1999 at 14:39:02:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by Kyra on December 10, 1999 at 12:19:30:

Kyra:

Thanks for sharing this and especially your new Acronym! :-)

RHJ++



Re: Thanks Rocket Healer Jim! The acronym...

Posted by
Kyra on December 10, 1999 at 15:23:50:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD" (Abnormal Diet is a Harbinger of Disaster) posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on December 10, 1999 at 14:39:02:


...isn't patented. Came to me in an inspired blur as I was posting. Feel free to coopt it. :-)



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by on December 10, 1999 at 15:38:31:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by Kyra on December 10, 1999 at 12:19:30:

Yes, diet is connected to ADHD. Smoking during pregnancy is also linked to ADHD. But there you have it again, associating shootings with diet. There is no excuse for violence. Many wonderful people have children who make horrible mistakes. They are parents who care but then there are those who do use everything as an excuse. Who can honestly say, "I didn't know fruits and vegetables are good for me"? Everything in life is about choice. Pregnant women have a choice not to forcefeed their children junk food during pregancy and childhood. Just as it is a choice to follow a whole foods way of eating. It takes a decision to simply do it and stick to it. If people are aware of the choice to make and don't make it, where does the responsibility lie?
Many people in America now lack the values and morals needed to do the right thing. That comes from poor upbringing, breakdown of the family unit, and lack of wanting to be a good person when no one else is looking. Whatever happened to being able to live with yourself and the results of your actions? I feel for the children who don't have the benefit of caring parents. On the other hand, there are the parents who care that have problems with their children. If educated about the refined sugar connection, if they don't take the advice or try it, how far can it go? What do you do for the child who died as a result of a fit of rage from another child? America has a lot more problems than refined sugar. Children can play outdoors without worry in some countries. Crime is not as prevalent and a woman can actually leave her purse somewhere and have it returned to her with the money still there. Here that is looked upon as a deed deserving a monetary reward. Everything costs something, even doing the right thing.



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by
Kyra on December 10, 1999 at 15:56:35:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by on December 10, 1999 at 15:38:31:


Great post, nameless one ! :)

I agree with what you say. I think we're approaching the same puzzles with different puzzle pieces in hand.

Kyra



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.)

Posted by B.B. on December 10, 1999 at 16:06:57:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by on December 10, 1999 at 15:38:31:

There are a few researchers who feel that crimes are often
a result of the limbic system and autonomic nervous system
having been altered over time by junk food and high sugar
laden diets, and is not so much a volunteered action, but
more of an automatic action that is somewhat out of their
control. Of course, this takes some blame away from them
in your argument, and people should be accountable yes.
But, what if it is true. Maybe they really are acting from
their butchered enzyme systems. We accept that folic acid
deficiency will produce neural tube defects, and Down's syndrome is now connected, so, why not this? I don't think
its such a far throw. The cause is in the commercialized pap that is shoved down many peoples throats either willingly or not, and sold to us as good things, pushed in
advertisements, etc. etc. Pregant mothers drinking colas
and eating piles of pastas, pastries, fast foods, will undoubtedly have a greater chance of having an ADD type child.
B.B.



Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) ARCHIVE under depression and philosophy.

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 11, 1999 at 10:57:44:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by Walt Stoll on December 10, 1999 at 10:16:01:

Friends,

This entire string gives me one more opportunity to discuss what I think about this.

First, is the concern that brain chemical instability due to refined carbohydrates, food additives, Clinical Ecological sensitivities, and the like, can be used to excuse abberant and abbhorant behavior in children (actually in adults too but not to nearly such an extent). To that I say: Listen to what the children are saying after perpetrating these horrible things! They ALL say, when asked why they would do such a thing: "I don't know!"

This is because their brains were not working normally when they planned for, or actually were doing, the deed.
Reference: "Diet, Crime and Delinquency" by the great pioneer Dr Alexander Schauss. This has been known for more than 20 years. Why is it not common knowledge???

The fact is that they were not "thinking" when they did this. This is why more punishment will NEVER be the solution to juvenile crime and violence. As in most chronic conditions, the solution is in getting to the cause. Unfortunately for our children AND our society, getting to those causes will require thinking (always a very painful thing for humans to do) and changing personal habits (also a very painful thing).

I predict this culture will do ANYTHING but those 2 things until it is very late in the game for the society. It is already too late in the game for the individuals caught up in these tragedies: those at the bottom of the bell curve of susceptibility and those who happened to be in the wrong place at the right time.

Our penal code allows for insanity as a defense. Why cannot the child's brain chemistry instabillity be considered "temporary insanity"? It is now known that nearly every case of "insanity" (in ANYONE) is a brain chemical instability.

Since the most common, and well established, cause of brain chemical instability in children is their diet, who IS to blame----the child or the parents who "taught" that child what to eat?

In how many families do the parents actually determine what the child will eat???? In nearly every case that I know of the parents cave in to the child's "demands" by letting them "eat what they like". This is almost totally determined on the basis of the advertizements from the food manufacturers via peer pressure and TV ads--which have nothing to do with nutrition. Whose fault is all that? CERTAINLY NOT THE CHILD'S! Why not let them go play in the traffic???

This is a problem that is pretty easily solved in preschool years and almost impossible during school years.

I couldn't agree more with those who say that personal responsibility and respect for others is important; as is a spiritual sense of "right and wrong". HOWEVER, even Jesus likened our body mind as the "temple of the soul". Since that piece of meat is the only tool we have to do "works" in this sensory reality, the quality of that tool determines how well we can do those "works". These rules are only effective in healthy children.

No one would like to be forced to run a race with their legs tied together at the knees! This is precisely what these brain chemical "tied" children are being asked to do right when the complexity of their society has gone off the charts.

Remember, the word healthy has its roots in the words for whole and holy.

Kudos or brickbats???

'Tis the season.........

Namaste`

Walt




Re: Kudos, Walt! (nm).

Posted by
Kyra on December 11, 1999 at 21:06:05:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) ARCHIVE under depression and philosophy. posted by Walt Stoll on December 11, 1999 at 10:57:44:


nm



Re: ADHD HELP

Posted by mom on January 08, 2000 at 14:21:00:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD (Respectfully disagree.) posted by on December 10, 1999 at 10:58:13:

I am the mom of an adopted son. We knew something was wrong within 1 week of getting him at 19 months. He has been diagnosed with FAS (Fetal Alcohol syndrome), NAS (narcotic addiction syndrome) and severe ADHD - over the years. He is now 18 yrs old. We have worked so hard. No one has ever worked harder. He DID graduate from high school, but has been on antidepressants and stimulants since grade 5.( We tried the Feingold diet at age 2) Now he has had bad acne and desperately would like to try accutane. YES - You are right - relaxation is what he needs to do - or learn to do. He has never been able to relax for 1 minute of his life. HOW can he learn to do that????? He has no friends, drives everyone around him crazy, has difficulty getting a job - because he can't relax!
He has always been on a healthy diet, and active in lots of aerobic sports and activities, but depression and the inability to relax continues to be a MAJOR PROBLEM.
HELP.



Re: ADHD HELP (Archive under depression.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 09, 2000 at 10:31:19:

In Reply to: Re: ADHD HELP posted by mom on January 08, 2000 at 14:21:00:

Hi, Mom.

I can feel your hearache and feeling of helplessness. He may BE beyond help since at his age, he may not be willing to do what would help.

First, I would get a copy of "Meditating With Children" by Deborah Rozman. Also, look at the homepage article about Skilled Relaxation and, if you want testimonials go to the Skilled Relaxation archive. The glossary would also help on this subject. At this stage you will have to do this with him to give him any chance. Once he gets good at this, you will not be able to KEEP him from doing it since he will feel like the world has been lifted from his shoulders. Keep him on the good diet and exercise since that will make everything work better.

Next, you might read a copy of my book from cover to cover and pay special attention to the references listed in the chapter on "Mood, Mind, Memory and Behavior". All of them can be tracked down by your local library--if they are no longer in print [the same goes for Rozman's book].

Finally, even though it may be too late, it would not hurt to see how much it helped to start him on the essential oils detailed on the homepage of this 'site. You could stay abreast of the remarkable breakthroughs in world research (over the past few years) by calling (800) 843-9660 and asking them for a bibliography of information in this area. Offer to pay them for this service since this is NOT the business they are in but they have the best up to date information.

THEN, if you still have questions, write again. The ideal time to do this stuff is before the age of 6 but even at this age most times much can be done.

Let us know what happens.

Walt



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