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Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Hi,

I've been diagnosed Bipolar II rapid cycler and have read this board for a long time and realize everyone here is big on natural remedies ;) What I'm wondering has anyone actually "cured" bipolar with any natural methods.

Every site I read says that a bipolar person cannot be stablized with omegas fatty acids and other natural treatments alone and I already tried the whole foods diet BEFORE being diagnosed and while on the diet went into a suicidal depressive period.

I've cycled four times in the last year - two manias, two depressions - and am now hypomanic, and am frustrated AND now on meds that have reduced my psychotic episodes where I become delusional, which is a start, but haven't stabilized me as I haven't been on the main med, Lamictal long enough for results. Right now I have to kids to think of so I am going to take the RX route, but wonder about the long term effects of these meds, so wonder for future reference what can be done instead.

Basically, in this ramble, what I'm wondering is if anyone has read/experienced anything where a person actually was COMPLETELY stabilized VIA natural routes. I'm not looking for book recommendations, but actual first hand experience. Has anyone gotten rid of the extreme lows through natural remedies?

I cannot imagine going off my meds if this means experiencing the EXTREME depression I get. I did a search on this site and found book recommendations, but didn't feel like anyone answering questions about BP is actually bipolar so it's hard to find reassurance in those who only recommend books rather than know what this feels like. I guess I'd like SOLID answers.

Please help if you can!

Thanks




Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 19:57:54:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

No personal experience, but ELIMINATING WHEAT AND DAIRY reportedly goes a long way in most manic-depressives, as does following D'Adamo's blood type diet.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 20:49:09:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

M,

I know A LOT about bipolar and would love to help answer any questions you may have. First, unfortunately, there is no cure for bipolar. You will have it for the rest of your life, BUT it can be stablized. As far as herbal stabilizations, I am aware of one person that has been somewhat successful with a VERY, VERY strict and rigid diet and exercise, but it isn't just that simple. It also requires a very specific and structured plan for what to do when you cycle, especially if you have others involved. Honestly, the natural remedies are SO unpredictable, and if you are well aware of having issues going off of rx, why would you risk it? Which meds are you taking? Some of the most common ones such as lithium have been around for ages. The biggest risks we have noticed are liver, kidney functioning concerns, so your levels need to be checked regularly. Another very common drug I am very familiar with is Depakote. Depakote is widely prescribed and has been because it is also used as an anti-seizure medication. I can very much understand what you are going through, and I hope I have offered at least a few solid answers. It takes awhile to come to grips with everything. As far as the meds though, the risks of not taking them far out weigh the risks of taking them. Best of luck to you!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 20:52:30:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 19:57:54:

sadly, M. I wouldn't recommend doing the above without consulting your doctor. I know of many people that have tried the above fad diets and have found that they begin to suffer because they are missing major essential nutrients that end up hurting more than helping. Please be very careful and wary of the so called natural method and you really need to consult a doc first. Also natural supplements are NOT all regulated by the FDA, which means each capsule or tablet may have an entire different makeup to the one next to it. Learned that one with personal experience.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 20:56:24:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 20:52:30:

"sadly, M. I wouldn't recommend doing the above without consulting your doctor. I know of many people that have tried the above fad diets"

Um, Grace, do some Googling. THESE ARE NOT "FAD" DIETS, THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES. Specifically I would refer you to the work of Elaine Guttschall, biochemist and cell biologist, AND psychiatrist William Philpot, M.D. (author of Brain Allergies, one of the books recommended by Dr. Stoll(.

"Please be very careful and wary of the so called natural method and you really need to consult a doc first."

Consult an allopath? For what, so they can pooh pooh anything and everything that doesn't involve a prescription for a pharmaceutical?

"Also natural supplements are NOT all regulated by the FDA,"

AND THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!!




Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 20:57:04:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 20:49:09:

That sounds like a TYPICAL allopathic response.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 21:14:55:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 20:56:24:

Wow! I really feel disrespected by you. I guess I missed what you said your experience was with bipolar. I am very well versed in the area and there is nothing "typical" about bipolar. You may not like my advice, which is totally fine. Feel free to offer whatever advice you may have to help M. That is my goal to offer the solid advice not just bs M. requested. Also in the future, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Cheers!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 18, 2004 at 21:24:32:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 20:57:04:

and that sounds like a typical CYNICAL response...if someone has experience in this area my advise to you RENEE would be to allow them the opportunity to help rather than SHOOT THEM DOWN! thanks!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 18, 2004 at 21:33:37:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 21:14:55:

hi grace,

most people on this board know that renee is typically callous, mean and angry towards people whose opinions differ from her own, my advise to you is to not take this personally, my advise to renee is to try anger management as your current therapy is obviously failing, thanks!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:07:15:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 21:14:55:

"is my goal to offer the solid advice not just bs M. requested."

And you MISERABLY failed to meet that goal! Dr. Philpot and Elaine Guttschall are NOT full of BS, and I'm sure Dr. Stoll would concur with me on that. (Read the archives if you don't believe it!)

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:07:59:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by chris [1400.1366] on September 18, 2004 at 21:33:37:

And EVERYONE on this board knows that you stick your nose where it doesn't belong and comment incessantly on things you know NOTHING about!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:08:43:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by chris [1400.1366] on September 18, 2004 at 21:24:32:

Did you read her other posts or just decide to take sides and shoot your mouth off?

No bother answering, we know which one it is....



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 22:25:21:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

M.,

I'm terribly sorry. How uninviting to see such conflicting posts. If you ever need to chat about things, please let me know and I will get you my email. It is really hard to find people that understand and not ones that apparently just continue talking to boost egos? Who knows... You are in my thoughts!

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 23:58:42:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [252.4] on September 18, 2004 at 20:49:09:

Grace, thanks for your help. I'm on Lamictal for a mood stabilizer. It's an anti epi drug as most mood stabilizers are and it has an added advantage of also being a mild antidepressant that isn't likely to bring on a manic episode as most ADs tend to do. This drug has to be increases slowly, so I'm working on getting up to the therapeutic dosage. Also, in addiction I'm taking a very small amount of Seroquel when anxiety gets to be unbearable and also taking 37.5 mg at night for anger and slight paranoia. I'm not sure what else my doc will add.

Thanks again so much for your response. I appreciate hearing from someone here who pretty much states what I suspected. . .that really there is no way to manage BP w/out meds. I wish it was as easy as a bit of exercise and a good diet!

Thanks for your help.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 00:01:44:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Hi M,

My heart goes out to you (and grace), and anyone else
that suffers from this chemical issue.

I don't have it myself, but two friends and my step sister,
suffer with this problem. Two of them have been
hospitalized many times, and my step sister tried to
commit suicide twice, before she was diagnosed.

My two friends tried to go the natural route, and it didn't
bring them stability. Diet, excercise, SR, etc.....Omega
3's, in high doses, helped them somewhat, but again, it
wasn't stable, and they couldn't go through normal trial
and error, like others can. The meds were the thing
that gave them back their lives. Even now though, they
can go for a few years with relatively little problem, and
then at some point, inevitably, they have to go back and
readjust their meds, as they will cycle again at some
point. They adjust their meds, and then they are OK
again for a few years.

I began taking omega 3's about 9 months ago, and the
results have been great for me. I did suffer some mild
depression, and the omega 3's took care of that. I had
suffered from this since childhood. Nothing as difficult
as bipolar. If I go off of the omega 3's, the depression
comes back. My brother is the same.
I didn't begin taking the omega 3's for that purpose, but
it was a wonderful suprise. I began to do search for my
step sister.

What I found, was promising research. The amounts of
omega 3's the bipolar subjects were being given during
the studies, were extraordinarly high. What I read over
and over again, on many sites, was that the ratio of the
omega 3's, 6's, and 9's, were vitally important in finding
the right dose for the bipolar person. It is a tricky, and
can actually cause an episode if you take the wrong
dosage for your own personal chemistry. This makes
the whole thing quite scary. I would think that an
educated doc is a must during this period, if you should
ever want to try this trial. The sites I read also all said
that bipolar people have difficulty in processing omega
3's. They are extremely deficient. In other words, they
suspect, as you probably already know, that they
believe lack of omega 3's to the brain, might very well
be responsible for bipolar issues.

I have nothing to offer other than that, except for my
sympathy and my hope for you to find stability. I do have
good news in that my friends and step sister live very
normal lives for the most part, as long as they are on
their meds. They can't go off. The catch 22 is that they
don't have the luxury of time to do trial and error with
supps and a holistic approach. The episodes are not
worth the risk when suicide becomes a possible reality
while off the meds. God, I am really feeling bad for you.
I wish no one had to go through this crap. You certainly
don't deserve it.

Bless your heart. I understand somewhat what you are
going through because of my association with my
friends and family. I wish we could just snap our
fingers and will away the pain in people. Very best to
you, and much luck with your search for happiness and
peace.

xo
dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:04:15:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:07:59:

Yikes! Um, yeah, OKAY!

Seriously can not eating wheat and dairy and following a diet replace meds? I took out wheat, dairy, caffeine, sugar, etc., and ate only whole foods (meat veggies and the few grains that I could for two whole months and dipped into a severe episode).

Renee, my question is can these diets aid a person enough that no meds are needed??? Can my mania GO AWAY so to speak by eating right and doing SR or whatever.

These are the questions I've been wondering and am hoping someone can provide insight WITH experience. It's easy to print anything in a book OR resite any concept from a book so this is why I'm asking for first hand TESTIMONIALS, not bs arguments.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:14:58:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 00:01:44:

DD,

Thanks so much for your kind words. I'm glad your depression has eased up so easily with a bit of oil and your friends, sister, and brother are all well too :) These ups and downs are crazy and it's wonderful that there's so many options out there for bp individuals, yet it's scary having the unknown looming around every corner. WHAT side effect will do what and when and how much weight will I gain and all that!?! Luckily, my kids were born before my dx so pregnancy issues aren't a future concern.

I'll ask my doctor about omegas on Wednesday. I'm not versed on the tricky aspect, but did read that since these oils are mild antidepressants they can trigger a manic episode in some people. I've had problems with antidepressents making me manic so this could be a concern and so I've held off on taking any Flax oil.

Thanks so much for your support. Again, I'm glad you're feeling well. Depression is so terrible and I'd rather spend every hour of my life manic rather than spend one single day suicidal ever again! My kids are 2 and 4 so I have to keep my act together for them and my husband.

Take care,
M



Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 19, 2004 at 06:46:26:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:08:43:

yes i did read her posts but i didn't even need to...if anyone is qualified to talk about bp it's grace i know her husband has it and they've been struggling through it for years....in my opinion the experience of someone who has been personally affected by bipolar is far more insightful and qualified than that of any doctor...but you immediately dismissed her comments when they deserved more respect....btw who is the "we"? first person singular is "I".

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 19, 2004 at 06:49:35:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:04:15:

hey M,

i very much doubt any diet could replace your meds...if this was the case bipolar would be treated that way rather than the expensive and addictive labyrinth of drugs...grace is more qualified to answer this question so i'd await her response for confirmation.

good luck!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 19, 2004 at 06:56:33:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Renee [1011.465] on September 18, 2004 at 22:07:59:

you seem to be hallucinating renee....who belongs in this concept of "everyone"?

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on September 19, 2004 at 07:52:29:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

M,

What have you learned from the brain chemistry archives?

Serious wellness is your most reliable long term remedy.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by Happygal [2070.350] on September 19, 2004 at 08:04:12:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 23:58:42:

Hi M,

I appreciate everyone's experience and certainly agree that some people need meds. No doubt about it. Remember also that everyone is different, and each illness, even if it shows the same symptoms in different people, may have different causes and therefore may respond to different treatment.

Did you read the brain chemistry archives? You might find some information in there that could be really helpful. You said, no book references so I won't give you any, but you might be benefitted by reading about orthomolecular nutrition. It seems many so-called "mental-health problems" can be resolved or managed by high doses of nutritional supplements.

You might also look to see if there are any books written by people with bi-polar to see if anyone was able to overcome it without meds.

In my own experience (dealing with an undefinable health problem that has seemed to have no solution), I have never given up looking for non-drug alternatives, and I have been well-rewarded!!!

Best wishes,
Jan



Re: Bipolar p.s.

Posted by Happygal [2070.350] on September 19, 2004 at 08:18:08:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Happygal [2070.350] on September 19, 2004 at 08:04:12:

Also, even if you decide that it is still in your best interest to take meds, I have no doubt that it is still worth your while to keep working to rebalance your own chemistry by doing the 3LS religiously.

Best wishes,
Jan

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by Lurch [1574.1228] on September 19, 2004 at 08:43:19:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:04:15:

Dear M,

People's health has been dramatically improved by diets like the ER4YT and SCDiet (specific carbohydrate diet - devised by the author of the book "Breaking The Vicious Cycle" by Elaine Gottschall B.A., M.Sc.). These diets and others have forums of their own with several hundred, if not thousands of members with all kinds of success stories to share.

No one can say if any of these diets will turn your health around. The only way to know is to try them and find out for yourself.


Follow Ups:


i am bipolar--my opinion

Posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 19, 2004 at 09:06:53:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

hi there--
i was daignosed with bipolar disorder about 7 years ago with symptoms of t beginning about 10 years ago--i am 27--it is hell to live with---the worst thing i have ever experienced (and i have many other health problems so my heart goes out to you as i can relate to what you are going thru--i would definately say that being on meds and doing natural stuff does not have to be mutually exculsive--i understand your need to go on mdication for some relief of symptoms--and do not feel guilty about doing that--but i wouls also try to worok on the nataurl stuff to and mybe ay some point you can try to gradually ween off of some neds if you are feeling well ans see how that goes--it's a caerful process but it can be done---i have been on lithium, wellbutrin, serzone, gappabentin, zoplicone for years and i was able to ween off of 3 of them after adressing some issues naturally---and i am slowly weenig off of the others when i am ready with the help of my doc--magnesium has helped me and many people with bipolar depression and unipolar depression--many people with depression are deficient in it--diet is extremely important--i knw that seems typical to ssay but it is---cut out any alcohol, simtulants of any kind like caffeine and refined sugars and even considering cutting down on your carb intake--exceric everyday--walking for 30 minutes--and pratice skilled relaxation or meditation--i guarantee you this will help--i use to be suicidal all of the time but now my moods are much better and i am never manic anymore--this s something you will have to 'manage'the rest of your life--but it can get better--goodluck



Re: i am bipolar--my opinion

Posted by gabriella [180.890] on September 19, 2004 at 12:24:10:

In Reply to: i am bipolar--my opinion posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 19, 2004 at 09:06:53:

Shannon,

What a wise young woman you are. I liked your post, it made a lot of sense. Sorry you're afflicted with this condition, it must be very difficult.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:48:21:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:14:58:

Hi M,

I thought you might find this short article interesting,
especially the "malabsorption," and the "essential fatty
acids" portions, as well as the intro. There are so many
articles on this stuff. This one is just a quick summary,
but intersting.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:58:50:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:48:21:

M,

just wanted to point out that in the Essential fatty Acid
(EFA) portion of the article, it talks about certain tests
available to determine an individuals' needs in this
departments. (what you personally are lacking).

dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by gabriella [180.890] on September 19, 2004 at 13:01:10:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Hi M.

I was in your thread when dd just posted the article about nutrients and mental health. I skimmed it, and it was pretty interesting. It also reminded me about a good book that might be helpful to you as well. It's called "The Brain Chemistry Plan" by Dr. Michael Lesser, M.D. He categorizes different brain types and their various nutritional deficiencies and remedies.

Good Luck!

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 13:08:03:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Hi M,

Just one more link, as I am sure you are going to be
saturated after reading all of these posts.



Re: Bipolar - M

Posted by June.one [1414.4] on September 19, 2004 at 14:23:07:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Happygal [2070.350] on September 19, 2004 at 08:04:12:

M,

Have you ever visited Psycho-Babble at Dr.Bob.org? There is an apparently very supportive on-line community there (I'm linking it below). The Psycho-babble page is for discussing med treatment and there are separate forums for alternative treatment and other mental health-related topics. When you click on the link you can scroll down the page to get a look at the message board and the types of things they discuss. I'm thinking you might find some interesting things on this website (hope so anyway).

June



Re: Bipolar

Posted by Mary [69.10] on September 19, 2004 at 14:34:58:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:48:21:

I downloaded this article and at the end of it is a website that looks like it could be very promising for you. Here it is:
www.hriptc.org

I would check this center out.

Hope this helps.

Mary

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 16:58:44:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:48:21:

Thanks, I've been reading up on supplementing for bp and even went to the vitamin section to look at B vitamins. Unfortuntely it was just an organic part of the grocery store rather than the health food store so they were limited on options, so I'm waiting to find a better complex that's yeast free. The best was TwinLab, but it had too much Vit C and I can only handle 500 mg per tablet.

One odd part of the article you posted is that according to it, I have over-methylation and under-methylation! I also have OCD along with anxiety/depression and these are oppostite needs nutritionally according to the data in that article. So I have too much of everything and not enough as well ;) lol




Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:02:54:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 12:58:50:

Thanks, looks like I'll have to find another doctor. Mine right now is dealing with the RX needs, which I'll keep up with as it's clear that there's a synergystic affect with using both RX and natural routes (as I've seen on these sites), but will look for a naturalpath of sorts.

Honestly, I've had a terrible time with natural doctors and every one of them has ripped me off. The last one tried to stablize me with meds and had planned to then also add natural rhemedies. She put me on drugs that made me worse and she kept telling me to up the drugs every week and I started cutting and she just ignored this when I asked her why I was doing this. She also wasn't very experienced and often acted scared of me!



Re: Bipolar - M

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:06:27:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar - M posted by June.one [1414.4] on September 19, 2004 at 14:23:07:

Hey, thanks I've heard of this site but haven't read it before so I'll check it out.


Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:08:58:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 13:08:03:

Yes, I'm overwhelmed! I did a bunch of searches on orthomolecular nutrition so now I'm just confused as ever about what to do/take, etc. For now, I'm just going to take my meds and research supplements for a month or two. I don't want to waste money on too many vitamins that may not work since my Lamictal is expensive enough on it's own!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [2646.4] on September 19, 2004 at 17:21:26:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 00:01:44:

Awwww dd,

How sweet are you? You are just so thoughtful and thank you for that. I agree there is soooooo much more research to be done in mental health and bp! Omegas are very important! Thanks again and have an awesome day!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by grace [2646.4] on September 19, 2004 at 17:34:55:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 23:58:42:

M,

Wow, you have lots of responses on here. It seems like for the most part everyone is offering the advice that they best know. You seem well educated, so you are probably more than aware that one's diet is essential to well-being. Yet, in my personal experience, as much as we would love to have it all solved with diet and exercise it is not that easy. Bipolar is still very unknown and underresearched. There is a great deal of learning continuting regarding which chemicals are being affected as well as the causes. Actually the latest research just released indicates that it may be a hormonal disorder instead. Just as someone born with diabetes, they definitely need to monitor diet, but also need insulin. Bipolar is similar, in that diet and exercise are essential, but the meds can give us the consistent predictable boost. If it were as simple as diet alone, bipolar and depression would have been "cured" ages ago. I know there are many that would disagree with that, it is our reality, and unless they know what those mood swings feel like and the consequences of them or they have a degree in psychiatry it is so hard to effectively offer advice. M., hopefully you feel very comfortable with your doctor and can discuss all of this with her or him. I really wish you the best of luck. I, too, very much wish there were a less complicated answer, yet sometimes things don't work out that way. Good luck M!!!!!!

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [15.1442] on September 19, 2004 at 18:35:30:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Hi M,

My 25 yr old daughter was diagnosed with bipolar several years ago so I know somewhat of what you have to deal with.

I can only offer my opinion since she relies on meds.

It has taken her a couple of years to find the meds best for her and is pretty much back to her old self now but it hasn't been easy.

I can't imagine now her giving up the meds and risking another episode. The risk would be too great and she has too much to lose. She has a great job that she likes very much and she doesnt need to risk losing it. I think all bipolar meds are expensive but so is hospitalization, which is what she would possibly be faced with by going off mds and depending on diet alone.

I have told her about omega3s but that's about all I can do is offer support and advice. It's up to her to do what is best.

I think with bipolar the outcome of trying to go without meds could be devastating and only you know if the risks are worth it.

I find it odd that you were on whole foods diet before you were diagnosed cause my daughter was a vegetarian for years before her first episode. She now eats meat but I don't know if it has any baring on her getting better.

All I know is that I'm soooooo happy to have( her ) back, the daughter I recognize and love. I really hope she dosen't do anything that would lead to another episode without planning for the consequnces completely.

And M you are so very lucky to have had your children before you found the diease. I'm afraid my daughter may never have the opportunity to experience motherhood unless she would adopt. But she does have two wonderful toy poodles of which take as much of her attention as children.. well almost.

By watching her care for my grand-dogs I know she would make a very loving and wonderful mother.

I hope your decision brings you peace of mind and happiness as well as wellness.

Take care,

D



Re: Bipolar

Posted by Paulc [1041.535] on September 19, 2004 at 19:16:39:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 00:04:15:

I would definitely get the Brain Allergies book if I was
suffering from a Bipolar disorder. Like most concepts, one
size does not fit all...but I can tell you that I discovered
that eating such an innocuous food as cashews in the
evening makes me depressed the next AM...who would imagine
this. I have tested it over and over again...strange but
true.

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [15.1442] on September 19, 2004 at 19:35:30:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by D [15.1442] on September 19, 2004 at 18:35:30:

M

I also wanted to ask if you were aware of your mania or depression while you had your episodes?

I'm asking because my daughter at the time thought she was experiencing a religious epiepheny and didn't think she was behaving or acting oddly.

Without this awareness it would be advised if you do decide to go off meds that you do so with close and dependable supervision.

This is another reason I would like my daughter to continue taking her meds. Maybe at a future time I will believe otherwise but knowing how unaware she was of her actions at the time causes me to believe she's doing the right thing now.

D



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 20:19:02:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by D [15.1442] on September 19, 2004 at 19:35:30:

D - I'm so glad your daughter has found a compatible drug cocktail. Which meds is she on?

Okay, for me, I had NO idea I was *hypomanic* (not full blown manic) on and off for at least my entire 20s and that this is why I was so hyper or irritable (and I didn't really recongize either of these as a mental condition). I'm 31 now and probably was bp even in my late teens. The only person that recognized these episodes has been my husband. He commented a number of times that he thought I was bp but I always thought he was kidding and ignored any further investigation via a doc.

The depression has been on and off, but only the last two episodes were severe enough that I finally decided to ask for meds. When I've been down, I've always realized it but didn't chart my moods or anything and didn't recongnize the up down swing that occurred over time.

Now, because I'm hypomanic at the moment and charting my moods, I do recognize if I get too high & my husband will tell me time to take part of a seroquel to calm me BEFORE I have a more serious attack and turn slightly delusional. I've had severe paranoia and but not a religious epipheny or full blown psychosis, but more like think people are out to get me or that they can read my mind.

Okay, good luck to you and your daughter.




Re: Bipolar

Posted by Mary [69.10] on September 19, 2004 at 20:25:46:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

You might want to check out the info on the Safe Harbor website: www.alternativementalhealth.com

I took the following from Safe Harbor:

Thousands of people around the world have recovered from mental disorders and now enjoy the simple pleasures of a drug-free life. Most were told this was impossible. Yet we hear from these individuals regularly.

Many others have been able to significantly reduce their dependency on psychiatric medication. Commonly these people find that underlying their "mental" disorders are medical problems, allergies, toxic conditions, nutritional imbalances, poor diets, lack of exercise, or other treatable physical conditions.

Our site has testimonials, over 100 articles, and the Web's only directory of alternative mental health practitioners. You can also get information from our bookstore, support groups, email lists, and our free monthly newsletter.

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 20:26:22:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 20:19:02:

Hi,

Also, quickly I wanted to add (and I'm sorry if none of this makes sense as I'm hypped up as we're in middle of packing to move!), but that even though I recognize my highs/lows, I have no way to control them. Everything has been normal today until I started putting stuff in boxes and then BOOM I'm super wired for no obvious reason(s). So, the dx basically just gave me an understanding of the reason why I'm like this, but no directions on how to lessen the affects.

Even if your daughter did understand what was going on, she probably would still be just as uncontrollable as me.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 23:37:31:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by grace [2646.4] on September 19, 2004 at 17:21:26:

Thanks grace. I did have an awesome day! I hope you
did as well. You have such a great attitude, and I really
appreciate that. You are right, there is much to
research. I find the body fascinating, and how all the
chemicals must be in order to make us happy
campers. I do admire the strength you guys have in
digging in and trying to find solutions for yourselves. I
just love it when people find that strength inside of
themselves. Keep going grace!

Have a great evening.

dd

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 23:51:56:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 16:58:44:

Well M,

Isn't that the luck of the draw?? LOL....you are a
complicated gal. Well, this article isn't the word of God,
just one of thousands. While on your meds, you will
have the capability to find your way, and you can take
your time, and not stress out over it. Eventually, with
time, more findings will emerge, you will be extremely
educated, and hopefully, well on your way to wellness.

I do think Walt is right in that serious wellness is in your
best interest. At the very least, it keeps your body
healthy, and gives you the best energy around.

Do keep us informed. I am very interested in what you
might find for yourself. I wish you all the best. Have a
wonderful night.

dd

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 19, 2004 at 23:58:05:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:08:58:

Smart plan, M. It is so easy to become overwhelmed
with the danged internet. Seems like there are so
many sites, with so much variation, etc....But, I do think
that the body does talk, if we can hear. I mean, I think
we know what we need, if we can just get quiet enough
and feel it. I know that sounds corny, but it really works
for me.

Again, M, have a wonderful evening. I too am getting
ready to move. What a chore!! But, exciting.

Sweet dreams.

dd

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 20, 2004 at 00:16:22:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:02:54:

Ah M,

You need to make sure you find someone that works
with a team. No one person knows all. There are
holistic teams that take on issues together, finding
solutions together, for the patient. I do believe this is
what Dr. Stoll was doing for a good portion of his
career.

Perhaps you should seek out a support group? My Dad
and Step Mother joined one (even though it is totally
against their grain), and it has done them and my sister
wonders.

Maybe in a support group, you can find someone to
recommend a good holistic team that can help you with
bp? Just a thought.

LOL....again.....nighty nite. I am such a geek. :-)

dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 20, 2004 at 00:26:40:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 17:02:54:

M,

Are you saying that you started cutting on yourself? And
she just told you to up the meds?

If this is what you are saying, you should really report
this woman. She has no business dealing with bp
disorder, or anything that has such a huge impact on
an individual.

You know, I was married to a network chiropractor, and
I got to know a lot of holistic healers, from all walks. I
got really trashed on this board once for saying this, but
I don't care. I'll say it again.

People are people. There are good and bad docs, and
good and bad holistic practioners. Human beings are
just that. Human. My ex had just as much of an ego as
many an MD that I have known, and so did many of his
friends. Many believe that they have found "the" answer,
instead of realizing that one type of approach, probably
isn't going to take care of the entire ballgame. But, that
need to play God seems to run through many healer
types. Allopaths and holistics. Personally, I think we
need both. It is just danged hard to find people that
take the time to really care, and not just be in a routine.

A good holistic team is what you need girl! A team that
isn't yet jaded, and a team that cares and holds interest
in you.

dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [6.1442] on September 20, 2004 at 04:31:03:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 19, 2004 at 20:26:22:

Hi M

Good luck with the move.

My daughter is now on abilify. She only had 2 episodes that were dramatic but was more like a very affectionate child stranger on other meds.

There are otherssues that may tie in with the religion since her boyfriend and family have odd beliefs very different frome hers and things between them were getting serious at the time.

She was studing to be a nurse and doing excellent in her classes but had to give it up when docs told her it would be the worst field to go into with bipolar.She was also working and volunteering at a hospital. This added with her boyfriend family moving about 2 hrs away I think put a lot of stress on her.Her college and hospital and work and boyfriend were all in different cities a good bit away from each other.
I have noticed that people with this disease seem to be intelligent and do well in school.

What was strange is my daughter shokwed no signs of depression before the onset. She had always had a lot of energy and was rarely down. She did show implatience though which could have been a sign but I saw it as a teenage trait or just her personality. She seems to be more patient now but that also comes with maturing.

You may be able to use natural methods more successfully considering your bipolar seems to be mild.

Good luck and take care

D



Re: i am bipolar--my opinion

Posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 20, 2004 at 05:51:14:

In Reply to: Re: i am bipolar--my opinion posted by gabriella [180.890] on September 19, 2004 at 12:24:10:

thank you that's really nice to hear



Re: i am bipolar--my opinion TESTIMONIAL

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on September 20, 2004 at 06:45:23:

In Reply to: i am bipolar--my opinion posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 19, 2004 at 09:06:53:

Thanks, Shannon.

I hope others will hear you.

Walt

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Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:22:02:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 20, 2004 at 00:26:40:

Yes, I was cutting ON myself. Did this as a teen, but didn't start up severely again until age 31 on Klonopin in HIGH doses. She'd say UP the dose again whenever the panic/cutting became worse than before.

I'm considering filing against her. My problem, and this is a selfish one, is I'm not wanting my bipolar to be on my medical records. I'm paying all my doc visits/medications with cash rather than going through insurance so that there's no evidence of my "condition." If I file a complaint there may be more reprocussions such as denial of life insurance. This is something i need to think about more.

My previous doctor is a Psychiatrist who worked in an office that's for environmental illness and allergies and after my MIL went to her, it was determined this doctor had little experience in psychiatrics. She would look at me in horror when I'd tell her what I was thinking/doing, so I doubt she's heard any true cases rather than mostly text book cases.

All the patients leaving her office had candida/smokey labs paraphenilia (sp?) so I suspect she had ME as her only mental patient ;)



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:25:38:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 20, 2004 at 00:16:22:

Thanks, okay, will find a good/trusting team. It's going to be a process that will start AFTER I get moved and we sell our current house. What a project. lol

I'm a computer geek too. I spend hours researching and chatting about all this health stuff. . .You know it's bad when you are facinated by web sites that describe lobotomies and give you step-by-step directions on how to perform one on yourself! hahaha

Haven't even found a support group for bp even in the major city I live by :( I guess everyone is either TOO manic or TOO depressed to keep up with the meetings.



Re: i am bipolar--my opinion

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:27:39:

In Reply to: i am bipolar--my opinion posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 19, 2004 at 09:06:53:

Shannon,

Thanks for your history. Which meds are you tapering off of last?

Okay, hope all goes well with you. Please keep us posted on how you're doing after you've weaned off your meds and how the long term results are.

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:32:06:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by D [6.1442] on September 20, 2004 at 04:31:03:

Abilify seems to be popular these days! Everyone who's on this med has only positive things to say about it.

It's interesting that your daughter is on this med exclusively. Mostly I've seen mood stabilizers as the primary/base drug used and then an AP is added and possibly even an antidepressant.

Sounds like stress, as you noted, was the primary factor for your daughter's bp setting in. There's a kindling process where our brains become slowly rewired to react in specific ways toward stress and with bipolar the more your brain reacts with mania, the more likely you're going to have additional manic periods with each stress outcome. So there is a possibility with her early impatience, she was slowly kindling back as a teenager.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [20.1442] on September 20, 2004 at 16:35:48:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:32:06:

That's totally possible. Now that I think of how she is a people pleaser she probably didn't want to worry my husband and I over any dpression. But if she had any she sure fooled us.

She also is not gaining weight on ablifly as with other meds. Shes now at her normal size. Also she is not lathargic as with the other meds she took. I'll try to rember the meds that gave her problems but I'm not really good at rememberin med names.


D


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Re: Bipolar

Posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:21:29:

In Reply to: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 18, 2004 at 19:38:20:

Some extensive research I did recently for a friend showed that there is a relationship between zinc/copper deficiencies and bi-polar, depression, and suicidal tendancies in some people.

Here is some of the information that I collected:

Psychological Symptoms of Low Zinc: Anorexia….Apathy….Auditory hallucinations….Confusion

Depression….Difficulty in concentration….Irritability….Impaired memory….Mental dullness or boredom

Mental stress….Schizophrenic behavior….Many pica victims are deficient in zinc….Decreased alertness


Bakan R., Lancet, p. 874, Oct 13, 1984

Many of the symptoms of anorexia are also the symptoms of zinc deficiency.


"Copper and zinc deficiencies in association with depression and neurological findings." Hansen C.R. Jr., et al Bio Psychiatry 18 (3): p. 395-401, 1983

Copper sulfate 10 millig Zinc and copper deficiency in depression and auditory hallucinations: improved in 2 months with rams daily. Once the treatment was stopped the symptoms returned.


http://www.drkaslow.com/html/zinc-copper_imbalances.html
Copper and zinc are regarded as neurotransmitters and are in high concentrations in brain hippocampus. As a result elevated copper and depressed zinc have been associated with hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders, behavior disorders, and depression. Also, many of those labeled with autism and paranoid schizophrenia have elevated blood copper levels in addition to other biochemical imbalances.

http://www.gsdl.com/news/kidsdigest/index3.html
Zinc performs a host of important functions in the processes of cellular growth and differentiation, with impact on functions ranging from steroid hormone receptors, enzyme catalysis, and intercellular communication to genetic expression and weight problems. [ Bob L. Smith, Vice-President-Elemental Analysis, has uncovered important links between element levels and health conditions. He is recognized as an authority on the effects of nutrition and toxic element exposure on human health and behavior, and he lectures worldwide on the topic. ]

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/ADHD/nutritional.htm#Niacinamide
Many nutrient deficiencies are implicated in behavior disorders. According to human physiology and nutrition theories, cellular function, and particularly brain function, is partially dependent upon nutritional status.(Essman). The stages of nutrient deficiency, from low intake through low blood nutrient concentrations to eventual compromised function are well documented for selected nutrients. For example, pyridoxine deficiency may cause impairment of neuronal activity, neurotransmitter imbalances, poor conversion of tryptophan to serotonin, and eventually may manifest as EEG abnormalities.(Sizer)

Testing for nutritional status in ADHD has typically involved laboratory assays for nutrients, including the following examples:

serum vitamins, or functional tests of vitamin reserve
minerals (most commonly hair and/or RBC minerals),
serum iron or ferritin,
essential fatty acids (EFAs) in plasma and RBCs,
serum or urinary amino acids
urinary organic acids.

Mineral Deficiencies in ADHD:

Studies of hair and blood have demonstrated mineral deficiencies in ADHD. The most consistent findings are low magnesium (Kozielec 1994; Kozielec 1997; Starobrat-Hermelin) and low zinc (Barlow; Bekaroglu M; Kozielec 1994). Iron deficiencies have also been linked to certain cases of ADHD (Kozielec 1994; Sever; Tu; Burattini). Studies of mineral status have also revealed a patterns of toxic mineral burden, most notably manganese (Barlow 1983; Collipp), lead ( Needleman;Tuthill;Eppright ), cadmium (Ward; Stewrt-Pinkham) and aluminum (Barlow 1986; Howard; Ward ). Implications and management of heavy metal toxicity will be addressed in a later section of this article.


http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/violence.html (tons of references follow below this part of article)

High lead, copper, manganese, or mercury levels have been found to be associated with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder(ADHD), impulsivity, anger, aggression, inability to inhibit inappropriate responding, juvenile delinquency, and criminality (19,20a,21,61,83,122, 133,136,145,151-155,43). It has been found that excess levels of copper can cause violent behavior in children(124,115). Likewise mercury has been found to be a factor in anger and mood disorders (135,133,153-155,A). Manganese toxicity has long been known to be associated with impulsive and violent behavior(37,61,134,151). The most common significant source of high manganese neonatal exposure is from soy infant formulas, which typically have very high levels of manganese(151,156). Lead has been the subject of extensive research documenting its relation to all of these conditions and juvenile delinquency(19-21,61,151,A). After adjustment for covariates and interactions and removal of noninfluential covariates, adjudicated delinquents were four times more likely to have bone lead concentrations greater than 25 parts per million(ppm) than controls(21a).

One mechanism found to be associated with toxic metals and pesticides relation to aggressive and violent behavior is the documented inhibition of cholinesterase activity in the brain(110). Studies have found evidence that abnormal metal and trace elements affected by metal exposure appear to be a factor associated with aggressive or violent behavior(37,60-63, 110,113,115,123,136,21), and that hair trace metal analyses may be a useful tool for identifying those prone to such behavior. Another series of studies found abnormal trace metal concentrations to be associated with violent-prone individuals including elevated serum copper and depressed plasma zinc(115). Similar tests in the California juvenile justice system as well as other studies have found significant relations of trace metal levels and mineral levels to classroom achievement, juvenile delinquency, and criminality(63,120,123,136).


References

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www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/amalg6.html

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(76) Schrauzer GN, Shrestha KP, Flores-Arce MF. Lithium in scalp hair of adults, students, and violent criminals. Effects of supplementation and evidence for interactions of lithium with vitamin B12 and with other trace elements. Biol Trace Elem Res 1992 Aug;34(2):161-76.

(77)Schrauzer GN, de Vroey E. Effects of nutritional lithium supplementation on mood. A placebo-controlled study with former drug users. Biol Trace Elem Res 1994; 40(1):89-101.

(78) Schrauzer GN, Shrestha KP. Lithium in drinking water and the incidences of crimes, suicides, and arrests related to drug addictions. Biol Trace Elem Res 1990 May;25(2):105-13

(79) Sheard MH, Marini JL, Bridges CI, Wagner E. The effect of lithium on impulsive aggressive behavior in man. Am J Psychiatry 1976 Dec;133(12):1409-13

(81) Autism: a unique form of mercury poisoning. www.autism.com/ari/mercurylong.html & Halsey, NA. Limiting Infant Exposure to Thimerosal in vaccines. J. of the Amer. Medical Assoc., 282: 1763-66; & Edelson SB, Cantor DS. Autism: xenobiotic influences. Toxicol Ind Health 1998; 14(4): 553-63; & A. Holmes, http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm

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(83) Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab, Depression, ADD & ADHD research web pages (click on: by condition),

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(93) Willemsen-Swinkels SH, Buitelaar JK, Weijnen FG, Thisjssen JH, Van Engeland H. Plasma beta-endorphin concentrations in people with learning disability and self-injurious and/or autistic behavior. Br J Psychiary 1996; 168(1): 105-9; & Leboyer M, Launay JM et al. Difference between plasma N- and C-terminally directed beta-endorphin immunoreactivity in infantile autism. Am J Psychiatry 1994; 151(12): 1797-1801.

(94) Huebner FR, Lieberman KW, Rubino RP, Wall JS. Demonstration of high opioid-like activity in isolated peptides from wheat gluten hydrolysates. Peptides 1984; 5(6):1139-47.

(104) Kerbeshian J, Burd L, Fisher W. Lithium carbonate in the treatment of two patients with infantile autism and atypical bipolar symptomology. J Clin Psychopharmacology, 1987, 7(6):401-5.

(110) Soderstrom S, Fredriksson A, Dencker L, Ebendal T, "The effect of mercury vapor on cholinergic neurons in the fetal brain, Brain Research & Developmental Brain Res, 1995, 85:96-108; Miszta H; Dabrowski Z. Effect of mercury and combined effect of mercury on the activity of acetylcholinesterase of rat lymphocytes during in vitro incubation. Folia Haematol Int Mag Klin Morphol Blutforsch 1989;116(1):151-5; & Bear, David; Rosenbaum, Jerrold; Norman, Robert. Aggression in cat and human precipitated by a cholinesterase inhibitor. The journal Psychosomatics, July 1986, vol. 27, #7, pgs. 535-536; & Devinsky, Orrin; Kernan, Jennifer: Bear, David. Aggressive Behavior Following Exposure to Cholinesterase Inhibitors. Journal of Neuropsychiatry, vol. 4, #2, Spring 1992, pgs. 189-199.

(114) Walsh, WJ, Health Research Institute, Autism and Metal Metabolism, www.hriptc.org/autism.htm, Oct 20, 2000; & (b) Walsh WJ, Pfeiffer Treatment Center, Metal-Metabolism and Human Functioning, 2000, www.hriptc.org/mhfres.htm; & (c)Walsh WJ, Health Research Institute, Biochemical Treatment of Mental Illness and Behavior Disorders, Minnesota Brain Bio Assoc, Nov 17, 1997; www.hriptc.org/Minnesota.htm;

(115) William J. Walsh, Laura B. Glab, and Mary L. Haakenson; Pfeiffer Treatment Center, Biochemical Therapy and Behavior Outcomes; 2000,www.hriptc.org/biochemical_therapy.html ; &(b) Walsh WJ, Isaacson Hr, Hall A, Elevated blood copper to zinc ratios in assaultive young males, The Health Research Institute''s Work with Aggressive Behavior www.hriptc.org/agressive_behavior.html ; & (c)Bibliography for Agressive & Violent Behavior, www.hriptc.org/bib_avb.htm

(119) Coulter HL, Fisher BL. Vaccination, Social Violence, and Criminality, 1990, & www.whaleto.freeserve.co.uk/vaccines/

(120) Schoenthaler SJ, "Effect of Nutrition on Crime, Intelligence, Academic Performance, and Brain Function" paper presented at 15th International Conference on Human Function, Sept 22-24, 2000, Wichita, Kan.

(121) Srikantaiah MV, Radhakrishnan AN. Studies on the metabolism of vitamin B6 in the

small intestine: Part III--purification and properties of monkey intestinal pyridoxal

kinase. Indian J of Biochem 7:151-156 (1970).

(122). Dr Thomas Verstraeten, US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, Summary Results: Vaccine Safety Datalink Project - a database of 400,000 children , May 2000.

(123) Stretesky P et al, Homicide rates linked to lead levels, Archieves of Pediatrics and Adolescent Med, May 2001

(124) Lavie R, Iron and Copper overload. Consumer Health Newsletter, Vol 21, No. 6, June, 1998.

(126) Salzer HM, Relative hypoglycemia as a cause of neuropsychiatric illness, J National Med Assoc, 1996,

58(1): 12-17; & Heninger GR et al, Depressive symptoms, glucose tolerance, and insulin tolerance, J Nervous and Mental Dis, 1975; 161(6):421-32; & Winokur A et al, Insulin resistance in patients with major depression, Am J Psychiatry, 1988, 145(3): 325-30.

(127) Virkkunen M, Huttunen MO; Evidence for abnormal glucose tolerance among violent offenders, Neuropsychiobilogy, 1982, 8:30-40; & Markku I, Virkkunen L; Aggression, suicidality, and serotonin, J Clinical Psy 1992, 53(10): 46-51;

(128) Linnoila M et al, Low serotonin metabolite differentieates impulsive from nonimpulsive violent behavior, Life Sciences, 1983, 33(26): 2609-2614; & Lopez-Ibor JJ , Serotonin and psychiatric disorders,

Int Clinical Psychopharm, 1992, 7(2): 5-11.

(129) Yaryura-Tobias JA et al, Changes in serum tryptophan and glucose in psychotics and neurotics,

Nutrition, No.4557, p1132; Carney MWP, Brit Med J, 1967, 4:512-516.

(130) Urberg M, Zemel MB; Evidence for synergism between chromium and nicotinic acid in the control of glucose tolrerance in elderly humans, Metabolism, 1987, 36(9): 896-899; & J Family Practice, 1988, 27(6): 603-606;

& Anderson RA et al, Effects of supplemental chromium on patients with reactive hypoglycemia, Metabolism,

1987, 36(4): 351-355; & Metabolism, 1983, 32(9): 894-99.

(132) The Health of Canada's Children--A Canadian Institute of Child Health (CICH), Profile: 3rd Edition, 2000, 325 pages.

(133) Camara Vd et al, Methodology to prevent mercury exposure among adolescents from goldmine areas in Mariana, state of Minas Gerais, Brazil, Cad Saude Publica 1996 Apr;12(2):149-158.

(134) Bowler RM; Mergler D; Sassine MP; Larribe F; Hudnell K. Neuropsychiatric effects of manganese on mood. Neurotoxicology 1999 Apr-Jun;20(2-3):367-78; & Tardiff K. Unusual diagnoses among violent patients. Psychiatr Clin North Am 1998 Sep;21(3):567-76; & Lucchini R; Albini E; Placidi D; Alessio L, Mechanism of neurobehavioral alteration. Toxicol Lett 2000 Mar 15;112-113:35-9; & Mergler D; Baldwin M et al, Manganese neurotoxicity, a continuum of dysfunction: results from a community based study. Neurotoxicology 1999 Apr-Jun;20(2-3):327-42; & Lucchini R; Apostoli P et al ; Long-term exposure to "low levels" of manganese oxides and neurofunctional changes in ferroalloy workers. Neurotoxicology 1999 Apr-Jun;20(2-3):287-97

(135) R.L.Siblerud et al,"Psychometric evidence that mercury from dental fillings may be a factor in depression,anger,and anxiety", Psychol Rep, v74,n1,1994; & Amer. J. Of Psychotherapy, 1989; 58: 575-87;

& B.Windham(Ed.), Depression, Anxiety, and Mood Disorders: the Mercury Connection; www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/depress.html

(136) Lead in Air Linked to Increase in Homicides, Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. May 2001;155:579-582

(137) Guermonprez L, Ducrocq C, Gaudry-Talarmain YM. Inhibition of acetylcholine synthesis and tyrosine nitration induced by peroxynitrite are differentially prevented by antioxidants. Mol Pharmacol 2001 Oct;60(4):838-46

(151) Masters, R, Hone, B, and Doshi, A. (1998). "Environmental Pollution, Neurotoxicity, and Criminal Violence," in J. Rose, ed., Environmental Toxicology: Current Developments (London: Gordon and Breach, 1998), pp. 13-48; & Masters, R. D. and Coplan, M. J., with Hone, B.T., Grelotti, D. J., Gonzalez, D. and Jones, D. "Brain Biochemistry and the Violence Epidemic: Toward a 'Win-Win' Strategy for Reducing Crime," in Stuart Nagel, ed., Super-Optimizing Examples Across Public Policy Problems (NOVA Science Publishers) (2003); & Masters, RD and Coplan, M.J. (1999c). "The Triune Brain, the Environment, and Human Behavior: Hommage to Paul MacLean," to appear in Russell Gardner, ed. Festschrift in Honor of Paul MacLean . 2003. (First presented at Back Bay Hilton Hotel, Boston, Mass. - July 16, 1999); www.dartmouth.edu/~rmasters/ & Dr. Roger D. Masters and Myron Coplan, Toxins, Brain Chemistry, and Behavior, www.mercola.com/2001/oct/10/toxins.htm

(152) Masters, R. and Coplan, M. (1999a) "Water Treatment with Silicofluorides and Lead Toxicity," International Journal of Environmental Studies, 56: 435-49; & Masters, RD, Coplan, M. J., Hone, B.T., And Dykes, J.E. (2000). "Association of Silicofluoride Treated Water with Elevated Blood Lead," Neurotoxicology 21: 101-1100; & Coplan, M. J., Masters, R. D., and Hone, B. (1999a) "Silicofluoride Usage, Tooth Decay and Children's Blood Lead," Poster presentation to Conference on "Environmental Influences on Children: Brain, Development and Behavior, New York Academy of Medicine, Mt. Sinai Hospital, New York, May 24-25, 1999. www.rvi.net/~fluoride/Poison_Well.htm

www.dartmouth.edu/~rmasters/ahabs.htm

(153) Psychiatric Disturbances and Toxic Metals, Townsend Letter for Doctor's & Patients April 2002; &

Alternative & Complementary Therapies (a magazine for doctors), Aug 2002;

(154)R.A.Goyer,"Toxic effects of metals"in: Caserett and Doull's Toxicology- TheBasic Science of Poisons, McGraw-Hill Inc., N.Y., 1993; &(b) Goodman, Gillman, The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, Mac Millan Publishing Company, N.Y. 1985; &(c) Encyclopedia of Occumpational Health and Safety, International Labour Office, Geneva, Vol 2, 3rd Edition.;&(d) Arena, Drew, Poisoning. Fifth Edition. Toxicology-Symptoms-Treatment, Charles C. Thomas-Publisher, Springfield Il, 1986; & Merritt's Textbook of Neurology, 9th Ed., Williams and Wilkins, Baltimore, 1995, p668-, & Clinical Management of Poisoning, 3rd Ed.,(p753) Haddad, Shannon, and Winchester, W.B. Saunders and Company, Philadelphia, 1998; & U.S. EPA, Office of Health and Environmental Assessment, Mercury Health Effects, Update Health Issue Assessment, Final Report, 1984, EOA-600/8-84f.

(155) Developmental effects related to prenatal/neonatal mercury exposure and mercury's endocrine disruptive effects, B. Windham(Ed.) www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/endohg.html

(156) For Immediate Release by Lumen Foods (soybean.com) Date: June 11, 2001 ; TITLE: Soy manufacturer warns mothers against feeding newborns their soymilk. CONTACT: Greg Caton Vice President (800) 256-2253

http://www.eatingalive.com/windham/windhamD.htm

Based on thousands of hair tests, at least 20% of Americans are deficient in magnesium and lithium (5, 68, 76, 83), with zinc deficiencies also common (123). The resulting deficiency of such essential nutrients has been shown to increase toxic metal neurological damage (5, 43, 74, 75, 83).

It has been found that excess levels of copper can cause violent behavior in children (124). One mechanism found to be associated with toxic metals and pesticides relation to aggressive and violent behavior is the documented inhibition of cholinesterase activity in the brain (110). Another series of studies found abnormal trace metal concentrations to be associated with violent-prone individuals including elevated serum copper and depressed plasma zinc (115). (tons of national references sited, including the CDC)


p.s. Renee has made wonderful contributions here and she does care a great deal about helping people. There are some here who continuously post thoughts and ideas that are cut/pasted from websites, and then adulterated with their opinions. When a person represents themselves to be knowledgeable without identifying their source of information or expertise, it gets a bit scary. It's wise to do your own research and this is a great place to get started.

p.p.s Chris is a relative newcomer to the board and he brought with him a host of rumors provided via email by several people on this board. Pity.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:28:52:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by chris [1400.1366] on September 19, 2004 at 06:49:35:

And to make my point, M, here is one such example.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 21:24:39:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:21:29:

CT,

Thanks for posting all this information. This along with the other info I've come across definetly indicates I need to go to a doctor for tests.

In some ways all this info makes me a bit unconvinced as schizophrenia and bp seem to be blamed on NUMEROUS conditions. One web site I ran across claimed Toxoplasmosis as a cause and also mentioned worms as a cause for some, so from all the speculation, my bp could be the result of possibly 50 different health issues. . .I feel a bit powerless in concluding what's going on, but hopefully by the time I'm ready for trial with natural remedies I can afford all the tests needed ;)

Thanks!



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 21:25:49:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 21:24:39:

Oh, hey, how is your friend doing? Has he/she figured out how to address the syptoms and determined what's going on regarding minerals?

Follow Ups:


Re: i am bipolar--my opinion

Posted by gabriella [180.890] on September 20, 2004 at 21:42:04:

In Reply to: Re: i am bipolar--my opinion posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 20, 2004 at 05:51:14:

You're welcome Shannon, keep up the good work!

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 20, 2004 at 21:56:54:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:21:29:

relative newcomer to the board? that sounds like a snobbish attitude.

a host of rumours provided via email by several people on this board? that sounds like a rumour in itself!!! unless of course you supply some evidence for such an unfounded opinion...

CT, people are here to help, including myself...you'd be wiser to respect people and argue with courtesy in mind rather than insulting others where it's not due.

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by
chris [1400.1366] on September 20, 2004 at 22:11:20:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:28:52:

bullshit CT...who are you anyway? the only reason i pointed to grace as a more qualified source of information is because that's the truth....what the hell is your problem?!

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by
kurt [374.1399] on September 20, 2004 at 22:31:17:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by ~CT [105.1287] on September 20, 2004 at 20:21:29:

CT, to put it down to mineral deficiencies would fail to explain the inheritance of bp. Bipolar disorder and anorexia and countless other disorders are far more complex.

I have bp, I have been under a doctors care since I was 15. I think these doctors would have figured out if I had any deficiencies...

Regarding your P.S.

One thing I have noticed about this board is the mob mentality. Chris is a valid contributor to the board and undermining him without substance is interesting enough for me to question your motives here.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 21, 2004 at 00:38:06:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:22:02:

Hi M,

Yeah, I understand the concern about the life insurance
thing. Scary huh?

LOL....you probably were her first and only patient with
bp. Way too deep, huh?

So cutting on yourself? I don't know how that works. I
have read about it. Makes me bummed, and I hope you
find a way out soon. Your sweet body doesn't need
cuts. It needs care and love. I am out of my league on
that one. I am not judging you, I hope you know that. I
just hope one day, everything falls into place for you,
and all becomes clear.

dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by dd [1706.26] on September 21, 2004 at 00:44:47:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by M [1616.20] on September 20, 2004 at 13:25:38:

LOL!

You remind me very much of my step sister. You guys
have a similar sense of humour, and I can tell you are a
very bright woman. So is she.

I just painted all day today, getting ready to sell the
house. I worked straight for 7 hours, getting bummed
out that I was doing it alone!! blah, blah......I am fine
now. It is a hard job, getting a house ready to sell. Of
course, if you have a lot of money, you can just hire
help, and go get you nails done! HA!

What major metro area are you near? Right now I am
near San Fran, but will be moving up to Oregon.
Changing paths, and intensity. Slowing down.

dd



Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 21, 2004 at 18:33:11:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 21, 2004 at 00:44:47:

Good luck selling your house. . .we're doing the same so cheers to panic attacks, eh? lol

We're just north of you in WA state. Hope you enjoy Oregon. It's a beautiful state AND has no sales tax. . .what more could you ask for? I hope you're able to relax with the slower pace. Sounds nice.

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by M [1616.20] on September 21, 2004 at 18:38:38:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by dd [1706.26] on September 21, 2004 at 00:38:06:

Thanks so much for your kind words. The cutting is a thing of the past, luckily, as after I fired the bad doctor, my MIL recommended an excellent pharmacological psychiatrist that's highly accredited and he's been a tremendous help. He's well versed not only in bipolar but in med reactions and interactions and set me up with a medication that's much better. It's been a life saver as it's kept me from self harm and turning more delusional where I freak out at my husband.

It's facinating and I've noted that most bipolars I speak with end up replacing their rages/cutting/extreme mania with moderate mania that causes shopping sprees. lol My husband is still not happy about my moods as now our closet is packed full of Old Navy outfits. When I packed the other day, AT LEAST 20 dusty Old Navy clothing tags fell on my head.

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on September 22, 2004 at 23:53:12:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by chris [1400.1366] on September 19, 2004 at 06:49:35:

HI Chris,

You might be speaking too soon...
Doctors and psychiatrists are not in the nutrition business and IF they were, they would be risking the wrath of the pharmceutical companies... and potential lawsuits for chasing a less travelled path.

THere are some studies which have had luck in treating
mental illness with supplements and diet...

Here is a link which you may find interesting...
Strange that the study comes from your part of the world
and it seems not well publicised there.



Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [20.1442] on September 24, 2004 at 22:58:46:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by Ron [1540.81] on September 22, 2004 at 23:53:12:

Hey Ron,

I would like to see testimonials from patients whom diet has managed their bi-polar for a long period of time. I would rather see it on something like 20-20 or dateline where it would reach more people and more people would believe. I am not convinced it would work enough to suggest to people they give up their meds.

It would have to be a great number of people's testimonials, considering many are probably misdiagnosed to begin with.

Is the diet difficult to follow? What would happen if someone has a weak moment and gives into temptation?

These are just some of the questions I haven't seen answered well enough to prove anything to me but theory.

Notice I left out 60 minutes? They have lost their credibility recently, haven't they.

I guess wht I'm trying to get at is if diet alone cokuld manage bipolar I'm sure we would have already seen proof of such on one of these venues. If you remember Patty Duke spoke went very public with her illness even though it was referred to as manic depression at the time. I'm sure she would have announced to everykone if she were able tok control it with diet alone.

I would love to be proven wrong on this subject. Depending on meds is not something I would take lightly. Neither is depending on a certain diet but it would be a much better
dependency.

D

Follow Ups:


Re: Bipolar

Posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 25, 2004 at 12:22:24:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by kurt [374.1399] on September 20, 2004 at 22:31:17:

hey Kurt,

i am not trying to sound like a smart ass here but it would really suprise me actually if your docs picked up on a mineral deficinecy connected to your bipolar---most medical docs would never even think to look at that--i have been under a doctors care since the age of 16 and i have had so many things worng with me that they never picked up at all--vitamin/mineral deficiencies--hormonal imbalances--interstitial cystitis--it was only after doing so much research myslef and going to a naturalpathic doctor and forcing my docs to look for certain things did they ever pick up anything and acknowledge it--i would not put such faith in doctors--there is sooooooooooooo much that they dont know but dont want to acknowledge they dont know--we have to take out health in our own hands--i think mineral deficienceis most likely play a part on many people's bipolar disorder--i am bipolar and am deficient in several minerals and adding magnesium to my regimen helped my moods quite a bit--the mineral deficiencey theory doesnt necessarily take away from the hereditary aspect of the disorder--perhaps the tendency to be deficient in certain minerals is hereditary as well---



Re: Bipolar

Posted by D [15.1442] on September 25, 2004 at 12:33:56:

In Reply to: Re: Bipolar posted by shannon [741.1371] on September 25, 2004 at 12:22:24:

Shannon ,

I would very much like to hear of your progress in this matter. If you still feel like sharing will you please keep the board informed? If so, thank you.

Follow Ups:


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