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Anorexia/bulemia (Causes & Options for Reversal)

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Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
E. Gayle Henderson on March 19, 1999 at 10:41:55:

I have a daughter who is ill with this eating disorder. She feels she is a failure and refuses to get the help she really needs. She has been afflicted with this since age 15 or younger. I became aware of the problem when she was 15. Her dad would not acknowledge it; hhis response was that I was jealous of her thinness. How can you be jealous of a sick daughter. We are now divorced for 11 yrs. He wants no part of her, she is not perfect now that he has finally recognize that she is sick. He always through it in my face that I was fat; even when I was wearing a size 4 but had a little tummy. We divorced after 30 yrs. and he married a child the same age as our children but she is fat~! A contradiction. Most important is what this illness has done to my daughter's health, mental health, ravished her body till her legs look like she has rickets. Her fallopian tubes have been absorbed by her body. She lost a lot of her teeth. Her skin is transparent. She has become promiscious and now an alcoholic. She has come from 57lbs. up to 90lbs. and down again. She has been hospitalized many times. She has become an expert at fooling doctors and brags about it. Now, since the alcohol problem developed this past year, she talks of ending her life. I dated this man 6 yrs. and married him only to have the marriage blow up where he beat me and my daughter up. Out of this came he had been molesting her and when we tried to press charges, the law laughed and said she was over 18 and could have said no. No to a 6' strapping man and she was only 57 lbs. His nephew was in the Gulf Co., FL sheriff's dept. We came back to Alaska to escape that nightmare. My daughter has lost 3 yrs. of college, more jobs, and now this...I am losing my daughter and I do not want to. I have already raised a handicap child who himself lost 2 girls in a car accident. Their father beat me, I am glad I am out of that but he had the power and money to leave me in the throes of poverty and I have no means to help my daughter and I am crying as I write this for I know it is a matter of time. She is 299. Help....How? Thank you. Her mother.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Gayle on March 19, 1999 at 10:46:06:

In Reply to: Anorexia/bulemia posted by E. Gayle Henderson on March 19, 1999 at 10:41:55:

A lot of typos in my previous message. My daughter is 29 not 299. I do know how to spell and correct words, i just too distraught to think clearly. Sorry, Her mom...



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Denise Wyrick on March 19, 1999 at 11:47:33:

In Reply to: Anorexia/bulemia posted by E. Gayle Henderson on March 19, 1999 at 10:41:55:

Hi Gayle, I'm not the Dr. but I thought I might chime in here. I am sorry to hear the pain you must be experiencing about your daughter. I suffer the pain of watching a sibling slowly kill herself with alcohol and struggle with the helplessness that comes in hand with that. I hope that you don't take me wrong here...but here goes. It would seem that a good resource for you might be a crisis center. Where are you located? Maybe I could help you find one in your area, local offices often are aware of other shelters throughout the country. Often times these folks provide services to individuals that are affordable or even free. It seems that the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to get some support for yourself, that way you are in more of a position to help your daughter. Hang in there and most importantly take care of yourself, that is the most important thing right now. Talk back to me and I might have more ideas...about resources for you. And I hope that I am not out of line here in offering suggestions.

All the best,
Denise



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (There are causes and solutions.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 20, 1999 at 09:35:05:

In Reply to: Anorexia/bulemia posted by E. Gayle Henderson on March 19, 1999 at 10:41:55:

Hi, Gayle.

This problem is FAR beyond anything I could help with as a total condition.

HOWEVER, I CAN at least give her a chance to do something physiological about the anorexia/bulemia. This has been discussed on this BB several times in the past year and you should be able to access this information in the ARCHIVES.

About 20 years ago it was discovered that nearly all bulemic/anorexic people had a low intracellular zinc level. There is a simple taste test that would help see if that is the main problem. Go to the healthfood store & get a little bottle of "Zinc Talley" which will have the protocol for the taste test on the bottle. If the test is positive, she needs to see a holistic practitioner in her area who can order an accurate INTRACELLULAR zinc. If you are not aware of any such close to you, call (213) 859-8700 (Meridian Valley Laboratories) for the physician closest to you who would know enough to order the test AND what to do about it.

NOW, the problem is that her many years, when this simple solution to her problem was ignored, has produced a psychological cripple. There was no way that she could have known that her problem was due to a simple zinc deficiency and not that there was something basically wrong with her personality. SO, now she IS psychologically warped and just repairing her physiological problem will not resolve that. However, once the physiological problem is repaired, she will have more horsepower to deal with the psychological condition.

Most docs who care enough to know about the zinc would also give her her best chance of dealing with the rest.

You might start with Robert Rowan, MD, in Anchorage: (907) 344-7775. Considering how big Alaska is, he may have names of competent docs closer to you. Do call the first number (lab) though since you will do best to have 2 lists to compare.

Let me know if I can help more and let us know how she does.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Right on, Denise)

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 20, 1999 at 09:53:01:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Denise Wyrick on March 19, 1999 at 11:47:33:

Thanks, Denise.

Her need for something like this prompted my initial statement about her needing to find help locally. If her first problem IS related to low intracellular zinc, correcting that will make her other "work" be more successful.

ALL help is welcome. I hope no one will hold back because they think their knowledge might not help. People come to this 'site when they are desperate. That means that conventional medicine has not been helpful and they are looking for other options. The more they learn, the more likely they will choose the best next option.

I look forward to the day when these safer, more effective and less expensive approaches are the FIRST things tried and not the last.

Walt



Reply to Walt

Posted by
Denise Wyrick on March 20, 1999 at 10:37:26:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (There are causes and solutions.) posted by Walt Stoll on March 20, 1999 at 09:35:05:

Hi Walt, They didn't teach us about zinc defiencies in graduate school...and I had not read any of the archives about this issue. I am truly glad to hear what you have had to say about this because it is not common knowledge among psychotherapists. There is a good reason why I keep tuning in to this BB I learn something daily!

Namaste,
Denise



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
jan on August 24, 1999 at 13:46:30:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Gayle on March 19, 1999 at 10:46:06:

our sons fiance claims she is bulemic. has been on and off for about a year. what causes bulemia and is there anything specific we can do to help her?



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Person with the problem has to work direct.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on August 25, 1999 at 15:08:46:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by jan on August 24, 1999 at 13:46:30:

Dear Jan,

Is your son's fiance on the internet? This can be worked out IF the individual with the problem is willing to put out the effert to do so. Nothing anyone else does will make any difference.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Person with the problem has to work direct.)

Posted by
Amanda Cunningham on September 26, 1999 at 22:11:53:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Person with the problem has to work direct.) posted by Walt Stoll on August 25, 1999 at 15:08:46:

I am bulemic and I know I nedd help, but I don't want to stop my wieght loss, it feels great to lose weight fast!



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Person with the problem has to work direct.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 27, 1999 at 08:26:18:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Person with the problem has to work direct.) posted by Amanda Cunningham on September 26, 1999 at 22:11:53:

Hi, Amanda.

See a good local Naturopath and get a "Zinc Tally Test". Profound intracellular zinc deficiency is the most common known cause for the "illnesses" known as Bulemia and Anorexia Nervosa. This is a simple taste test that takes about 6 minutes and costs practically nothing. When you call for the appointment be sure to tell them that that is what you want to be sure the doc is set up to do it. Most Chiropractors are also set up to do this.

These conditions are only of concern when they negatively impact a person's health. If it is not doing that to you, it is much less serious.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Megan Wiebe on September 29, 1999 at 15:10:25:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Gayle on March 19, 1999 at 10:46:06:


I don't understand how people can put themselves through all of this agony. I'm not super skinny and I get all the action I want. People don't always look at your waist size as long as you feel good and have a nice rack (aka BIG TITTYS!) . Life is not what you see in magazines.! People need to see that anyone who cares that much about what you look like before they get to know you aren't worth the time.!



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Secrets hidden on September 29, 1999 at 17:41:52:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Megan Wiebe on September 29, 1999 at 15:10:25:

It's easy to tell people with my problem (bulemia/anerexia)to be happy with their body and to stop craving things seen in magazines. To list reasons not to enter into this semmingly never ending self abuse but once you are wrapped into this maddness it seems too late for advice. I know help can only come from myself, I know I am slowly killing myself. I am not over weight and after a while weight seems far away from the problem. I am 22 years old, I have friends and a good social life and no-one has any idea that I loath my feelings and that I block them out only to 're-surface' in such a weak and embarrasing way. That's what I hate about it, the weakness that seems too strong to conquer. Sometimes I can hold back and make it through one day sometimes a few only to relapse back into it and each time I do I feel closer to hating myself to the point of ending it all. I've been 'sick' for 5 years, two and a half anorexic and the other two and a half puking my life a way. I've gone from 7 stones to 9 stones. People comment on my looks and how attractive I am but that only makes it worse. I think the only cure I could fine would be that everyone looked exactly the same. Boring I know but then at least I could live with the idealistic view that we are all looked at because of who we are inside. I hate the turmoil I see inside myself. The disgusted feeling I get when I look into the mirror and see my violated face. Clean it up, walk outside, cars beeping, interested faces, if only they knew how close I feel to utter dispair. Why do I feel like this? I could list a lot of reasons, too many. What can I do? How can I stop? I have no answers. All I know is that if I ever do conquer this I will become the strong person that I once was. Happiness? It seems to come and go so quickly. I know this is a world-wide problem but it feels like no-one understands that I can still be an intelligent person who offers other people good advice but still can't help myself. I don't know if anyone will read this but it feels good to at least voice a small part of myself that I never let anyone see. I smile, laugh, get dressed up and have a good time but deep down it's always there taunting me and keeping me distant from anyone who wants to be close to me. If I don't care about myself how can anyone else?



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Secrets hidden on September 29, 1999 at 17:46:34:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by jan on August 24, 1999 at 13:46:30:

The message i left was not in response to anyone in particular. I hope no-one takes offence in my words I just wanted to let myself talk about it.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by rebecca on September 30, 1999 at 18:26:55:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Megan Wiebe on September 29, 1999 at 15:10:25:

...i am twenty years old, junior in college and when i sit in class i look around and wonder how many people have made themselves throw-up, like i did, last night or this morning or before class. How many of them would be able to tell you exactly how many calories they have had that day, including fat content? How many of them feel worthless and lonely and afraid to be alone with themselves? How many of them wish people could understand that its not about food or looking good or fitting in,...would people understand that intelligent, tough, determined people can be weak too...
...i have had an eating disorder, or at least have been overly conscious of my eating for about a year and a half. i was on a sports team, and working out a lot, and lost about fifteen pounds and felt great...but somewhere between feeling great and challenging myself to just loose a few more pounds, i noticed that i couldnt stop thinking about running and calories. it became such an obsession that i dreaded eating, and somedays i just wanted to eat everything for the day at one meal so i wouldnt have to think about it for the rest of the day. and some days i would i would eat just to feel full, remembering the nights that i had to go to bed hungry before sports events that required weigh-ins...and some days i would feel so worthless and guilty and undeserving of food for that day...and some days i would eat till i was sick, and them throw it all up, hating myself for having to do such horrible things, hating myself for hurting myself like that, feeling like a mother who has slapped her child out of anger and doesnt know how to explain or apologize enough...
...but then i think that i can handle it. i would just worry my parents and i dont want my friends watching me everytime i eat or eyeing me everytime i need to go to the bathroom...i think i should be able to control myself, to be alone with myself and not binge and not throw up. i should be able to chew my food and eat normal amounts like a normal person...i'm twenty years old, and a junior in college, and double majoring, and i have a 4.0....i should be able to control myself!...but thats what makes it so much worse...when you are your own enemy...when the only one to hate is yourself...when you are the villan and the victim...



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc)

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 1999 at 11:19:13:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by rebecca on September 30, 1999 at 18:26:55:

Rebecca,

This has been discussed, in depth, on this BB within the past month. Please save me typing. THEN, if you still have questions, write again.

Look to your INTRACELLULAR zinc level or get the Zinc Tally Test. Also properly done SR will always help this---IF you will do it. See the glossary for any unfamiliar terms.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by secrets hidden on October 03, 1999 at 10:17:18:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by rebecca on September 30, 1999 at 18:26:55:

When I read your comments I thought I was reading something that I would write myself. I am 22 years old and I have been stuck in this seemingly never ending self abuse for 5 years. Anorexic for the first half and now bulemic. I am a strong person, have a lot of friends and I don't find it difficult getting attention. At first I just wanted to loose weight but the smaller I got the more I wanted to just loose 2 or 3kgs more. Now I don't know why I do it. I just wish that I could stop obsessing so much. When I go to Mc Donalds, which is rare, I wonder how anyone can eat it without feeling guilt. It's like not knowing how to drive watching someone do it with such ease, like it's second nature. Everything I put in my mouth is accounted for, maybe on good days its very underlined but its always there taunting me. I want to stop but now it seems almost natureal. That everyone looks into the mirror after bring up tea to see it on their face to see those bloodshot eyes staring straight back at you. To clean up, flush the toilet twice and face the world happily and to no-one elses knowledge. Their can't be too many with our problem, I know there are but I know I could pick up on someone with my problem. Someone who either won't be seen eating or goes to the toilet after eating a large sized meal. No-one I know has a clue. Sometimes I almost tempt fate to walk in on me in my most humiliating moments, I don't know what it would do to me. I've actually been doing alright reducing my vomitting from about 4 times a day to about 6 times a week but thats only been for about 3 weeks. Still there could be hope. I wrote something about 4 days ago if you want to read it it's in this 'file'. Anyway saddly you are not alone. I'm one of thefirst people my friends come to for advise and my life is a mess, maybe I should become a physcologist ha. See You and keep trying, there are a few of us out there who see the world and food in the same fucked up way. Secrets hiddenx



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Secrets hidden on October 03, 1999 at 10:26:36:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Megan Wiebe on September 29, 1999 at 15:10:25:

Megan,
I can see you have absolutly no understanding of the problem, what did you say "if you feel good about yourself and have big tits?" I found your comments hypocritcal and ignorant. What are you doing on this site anyway? I thought you said you got a lot of action? Obviously not enough. See Ya.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 1999 at 13:42:24:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by secrets hidden on October 03, 1999 at 10:17:18:

Hi, Secrets.

Have you had a zinc tally test?

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Concerned Friend on October 05, 1999 at 01:43:24:

In Reply to: Anorexia/bulemia posted by E. Gayle Henderson on March 19, 1999 at 10:41:55:

I have a friend who isn't at a bad stage of being Bulemic, but it can get there quickly. She is a 14 yr old girl. She told me she does it when stress is mounting and she feels overwhelmed. She knows it is bad and has no reason for doing it. She isn't overly concerned about her wieght. I live a ways away from her. I would like any ideas of what i can do to support her to make the right decision. I want to know what she whould do and how? I am the only one who knows of her problem. What can i do? I care deeply about her and don't want this to become a problem as it has with others.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 06, 1999 at 11:42:38:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Concerned Friend on October 05, 1999 at 01:43:24:

Hi, Concerned Friend.

This has been discussed several times on this BB within the past month. Please save me retyping it by looking them up.

THEN, if you still have questions, write again.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by HARDY on October 06, 1999 at 13:53:03:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Secrets hidden on September 29, 1999 at 17:41:52:

hI YA secrets,
recently i found out my best friend is bulemic and its totally shocked me, ive read a few articles about the subject but there seems to be no positive help.I read your letter and it gave me a little insight into how my friend feels. I want to help my friend so much but dont know what to do, its her secret and i cant tell anyone. As a person who as first hand experience on this matter, could you give me any advice on what i could do to make my friend feel better about herself, i know i cant heal her but i love her and want to do everything possible in my power to help. Do you have a boyfriend and does he know about your problem, if so how does he cope with you, does he help you in any way?
ok i wish you all the luck with your problem hope you overcome it HARDY



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by secrets hidden on October 06, 1999 at 14:29:30:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 1999 at 13:42:24:

Whats a zinc tallt test?



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by secrets hidden on October 06, 1999 at 14:51:15:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by HARDY on October 06, 1999 at 13:53:03:

I don't know, it's hard to give advise. One thing I know for sure is don't make food an issue but try, when you do eat together to eat good food and smallish amounts-just under what the normal person would eat, she'll need to think she won't put on any wieght. Encourage her to go for a walk directly after it-if she can keep her food down for an hour it helps her realise she's being healthy and stops that hunger that makes you keep on doing it. It's a hard one for you because the problem really exists when you are alone but when you are together don't watch her when she goes to the toilet, if she thinks you are watching she'll just hide it from you, if she thinks you trust her it will give her a reason, a person other than herself to let down. Your trust and faith in her might just stop her that once, might not but... Encourage her to go to the doctor, even though I won't go maybe she will, the thing is there is nothing you can do other than just being there for her. Try going to the gym togeter or swimming. I recommend walking because she'll feel more active and it gives you both time to talk about things, ask her what she thinks you could do. Make sure you keep her confidence, I know it's a hard secret to keep but she'll lose faith in you and that's the thing she is missing the most in her life, faith. You sound like a good friend so just try and talk to her about it. Good luck, write back if you feel like another chat.
Secrets Hiddenx



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc)

Posted by
michael on October 06, 1999 at 15:09:35:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc) posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 1999 at 11:19:13:

send me some information about belemia. I need it for aan expirement/project



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc)

Posted by
michael on October 06, 1999 at 15:09:42:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc) posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 1999 at 11:19:13:

send me some information about belemia. I need it for aan expirement/project



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc)

Posted by Robot Responder on October 06, 1999 at 15:19:08:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia (SR and zinc) posted by michael on October 06, 1999 at 15:09:42:

Walt *never* replies by email, so don't hold your breath.

And he does not take assignments like, "send me some information on...."

Suggest you try Ask Jeeves (linked below) for school assignment-type web searches.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia (Zinc Tally Test)

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 1999 at 11:35:44:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by secrets hidden on October 06, 1999 at 14:29:30:

The Zinc Tally Test is a taste test with 4-5 different levels of tasting. Bacically, if you can taste it, you are in pretty good shape so far as your intracellular zinc is concerned. If not, you are in real zinc trouble.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Megan Wiebe on October 19, 1999 at 13:27:59:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Megan Wiebe on September 29, 1999 at 15:10:25:

I would like to say to all of those whose responded to my last statement that I was not meaning to insult you, half of that was a joke, by my friend and I. I, for one, understand where you are coming from. I may not know to the same severity as some of you, but I will say that I am familar with some of your own thoughts. I hope I did not insult you, I guess this is coming from a girl who is NOW looking at the problem from the outside, in, rather than the other way as it used to be. I sincerely apologize, I guess it was me and my friend just goofing around....


With my respect and apology,
Megan



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Tray on October 20, 1999 at 11:12:40:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Secrets hidden on September 29, 1999 at 17:41:52:

Everyone in the world has something that they don't like about themselves and I know that it sounds pretty selfish if I say, "you're not living for yourself." We are all living for the Lord. Have you ever given the Lord a try? I mean somewhere in the bible it talks about demonic spirits and the Lord casting them out. Well, everything that is against God is demonic to me. Things like drugs and and bulemia are demons and these are only a few.Just think about it! People that suffer from things like this have no control over their life. They go and get cleaned out and in a little of no time, they relapse. They relapse because there is nothing there to feel that space. When a person goes to be rehabilitated, they need to be feeled with the Word of God so that there is no room for a demon. Anytime a person cleans theirself up and don't get the Word of God in them, that same demonic spirit comes back seven times stronger.
Give God a try. He loves you and he does not care what you look like. The Lord does not care about your clothes, hair, or who all it is that you fit in with. He cares about your soul. Give God a try. I'm sure he has knocked on your door, he just wants you to invite him into your life. He is yours if you want him!



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Scared of Myself on October 20, 1999 at 12:17:44:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Gayle on March 19, 1999 at 10:46:06:

I'm really scared about what I'm starting to do to myself. My whole life I have been the skinny runner girl, and now I am starting to gain weight. I am already up to 124 pounds and I told myself I would never weigh more than 125 pounds. I am dangerously dangerously close and it scares me to death. For about two years now I've been stressing about my weight, and last year I made myself throw up a couple of times after eating, and experimented with skipping meals. Right now I think I'm on the edge though. The past two days I tried skipping meals, and all I had yesterday was an apple. My friend caught me though so I had to go eat today. However, when I got back from lunch I threw it all up. Another thing that scares me is that I feel more guilty about the fact that I ate than that I threw up. I loved the hunger feeling in my stomach. It made me feel powerful and in control. What is wrong with me? I don't want to be fat, but I don't think this is a solution. How am I supposed to hide this from my friends, and will I still be able to run if I do this? Can any of you remember when you were on the verge of starting this path? Is it too late for me to choose the right direction...whatever that may be? Does anyone have any advice for me?



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 21, 1999 at 10:42:54:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Scared of Myself on October 20, 1999 at 12:17:44:

Hi, Scared.

Have you seen a Naturopath or Chiropractor about a Zinc Tally Test? It might be just that simple.

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by hardy on October 21, 1999 at 13:42:46:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Tray on October 20, 1999 at 11:12:40:

Jello tray
Well i must say your letter is a little interesting. How can you preach about worshipping a god, bulemia as nothing to do with god or satan.
Has i see it people who suffer this problem should beleive in them selves more , not a god. Just because anyone as bulemia doesnt make then less a person than anyone else ,they should be loved.
My girlfriend as bulemia and i love her very much,i am always their for her, she as lots of friends, and isnt overweight or ugly, yet she hates herself. I know i cant fully help her, but she knows i care. What can god do NOTHING.
GOD IS A LIE

HARDY



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by hardy on October 21, 1999 at 14:10:21:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by secrets hidden on October 06, 1999 at 14:51:15:

HELLO SECRET,
How are you coping , well i hope.
Thanks alot for repling to my message, your advice was much appreciated.
Just thought id let you know how things are going.My friend is still making herself sick. but is doing it less frequently, we do sit down and talk about her problem, she knows exactly what shes doing.Unfortunatly she as started talking slimming pills, now this might not seem a problemm but she is taking at least three times the recommended dose, is she doing this instead of the vomiying? Surely this is not a good thing to be doing. She doesnt know that i know about the pills (i think shes taking other pills too), i dont know wether to confront her or wait to see if she tells me, I love her so much , it hurts to see her this way , one thing , i will not let this problem come between us , my love will always be there for her, although she may part from me because she says she hates herself and doesnt deserve to be loved. Damn she does deserve love.Well i gotta go , goodluck with yourproblem, you seem a really nice person,
THANKS HARDY
ps Do you have a boyfriend?Does he know about bulemia?Does he help you in anyway?



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by
Eclipse on October 22, 1999 at 15:32:45:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by HARDY on October 06, 1999 at 13:53:03:

Im a Bulemic and a guy.. i need some help contact my web address if you have some help.



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 23, 1999 at 12:20:31:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Eclipse on October 22, 1999 at 15:32:45:

Hi, Eclipse.

This has been discussed many times right here on this BB. However, there is no archives catagory for this. Put a note to RocketHealer Jim on the BB about this since he has a magical way of finding stuff like this.

Walt



Re: A classic revisited (Long and worth reading!)

Posted by
RocketHealer Jim++ on October 23, 1999 at 13:17:27:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Walt Stoll on October 23, 1999 at 12:20:31:

Orthorexia Nervosa -- The Health Food Eating Disorder

Because I am a physician who practices alternative medicine, patients who come to me often begin the conversation by asking whether they can be cured through diet. "Regular medical doctors don't know anything about nutrition," they say, believing this will build rapport with me. I feel obligated to nod wisely. I agree that conventional medicine has traditionally paid too little attention to the effects of diet. However, I am no longer the true believer in nutritional medicine I used to be. My attitude has
grown cautious where once it was enthusiastic and even evangelical.

I have lost two beliefs that once encouraged me, and that are still widely accepted by others who promote dietary methods of healing. One of these is an assumption that there exists a comprehensive and consistent theory of healing diseases through nutrition. The other is a faith that dietary therapy is a uniformly wholesome, side effect free intervention.

My attitude has not always been so lukewarm. Twenty years ago I was a wholehearted, impassioned advocate of healing
through food. My optimism was unbounded as I set forth to cure myself and everyone else. This was long before I became an alternative physician. In those days, I was a cook and organic farmer at a large commune in upstate New York. My
experiences there formed the foundation of my early interest in alternative medicine, and continue to give me insight into the ideals, dreams and contradictions that underlie the natural health movement.

All communes attract idealists. Ours attracted food idealists. As a staff cook I was required to prepare several separate meals at once to satisfy the insistent and conflicting demands of the members. The main entree was always vegetarian. However, a small but vocal group insisted on an optional serving of meat. Since many vegetarians would not eat from pots and pans contaminated by fleshly vibrations, this meat had to be cooked in a separate kitchen. The cooks also had to satisfy the Lacto-ovo-vegetarians, or Vegans, who eschewed all milk and egg products. The rights of the non-garlic non-onion
Hindu-influenced crowd could not be neglected either. They believed onion-family foods provoked sexual desire.

For the raw foodists (and young children) we always laid out trays of sliced raw vegetables. However, a visitor once tried to convince me that chopping a vegetable would destroy its etheric field. I chased him out of the kitchen with a huge Chinese cleaver.

The macrobiotic adherents clamored for cooked vegetables, free, of course, from "deadly nightshade" plants such as tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers and eggplants. Some also insisted on eating fruits and vegetables only when they were in season, while other communalists intemperately demanded oranges in January.

Besides these opinions on which food to serve, there were as many opinions on the manner in which it should be prepared.
Most everyone agreed that nothing could be boiled in aluminum, except the gourmet cooks, who insisted that only aluminum would spread the heat satisfactorily.

By consensus, we always steamed vegetables in the minimum amount of water to avoid throwing away precious vitamins.
Certain enthusiasts would even hover around the kitchen and volunteer to drink the darkish liquids left behind. About washing vegetables, however, controversy swirled. Some commune members firmly believed that vital substances clinging just under the skins must be preserved at all costs. Others felt that a host of evil pollutants adhered to the same surfaces that needed to be vigorously scrubbed away. One visitor explained that the best policy was to dip all vegetables in bleach, and gave such a convincing argument for her belief that we would have adopted the principle at once were it not for a fortuitous bleach shortage.

I used to fantasize writing a universal cookbook for eating theorists. Each food would come complete with a citation from one system or authority claiming it the most divine edible ever created, and another, from an opposing view, damning it as the worst pestilence one human being ever fed to another.

This would not be difficult. For example, a famous naturopathic concept proclaims that raw fruits and vegetables are the ideal foods. Some proponents of this school exclaim periodically "the greatest enemy of man is the cooking stove!" However, another popular theory bans raw foods as unhealthy, and attributes to their consumption such illnesses such as MS, rheumatoid arthritis and cancer. I am referring to macrobiotics. This influential system of alternative dietary principles insists that all vegetables should be cooked; fruits should not be eaten at all.

Similar discrepancies abound in alternative dietary medicine. The following rules may be found in one or another food theory: Spicy food is bad. Cayenne peppers are health promoting. Fasting on oranges is healthy. Citrus fruits are too acidic. Fruits are the ideal food. Fruit causes candida. Milk is good only for young cows. Pasteurized milk is even worse. Boiled milk "is the food of the gods." Fermented foods, such as sauerkraut, are essentially rotten. Fermented foods aid digestion. Sweets are bad. Honey is nature's most perfect food. Vinegar is a poison. Apple cider vinegar cures most illnesses. Proteins should not be combined with starches. Aduki beans and brown rice should always be cooked together.

The discovery that nutritional medicine was so chaotic troubled me. Yet I could always hope that a universal theory of nutrition might eventually be found. What disturbed me more observing the extremism that so frequently develops among those who propound dietary cures.

I remember a macrobiotic seminar at the commune, led by Mr. L. of the Kushi institute. An audience of at least thirty-five listened with rapt attention as Mr. L. lectured on the evils of milk. It slows the digestion, he explained, clogs the metabolism, plugs the arteries, dampens the digestive fire, and causes mucous, respiratory diseases and cancer.

At that time, a member of the commune by the name of John lived in a small room upstairs from the seminar hall. He was a "recovering" alcoholic who rather frequently failed to abstain. Although only in his fifties, John's face showed the marks of a lifetime of alcohol abuse. But he had been on the wagon for nearly six months when he tiptoed through the class.

John was a shy and private man who would never voluntarily have so exposed himself. But upon returning from the kitchen with a beverage he discovered that there was no way he could reach his room without crossing through the crowded seminar. The leader noticed him immediately.

Pointing to the glass of milk in John's hand, Mr. L. boomed, "don't you realize what that stuff is doing to your body, sir! Class, look at him! He is a testament to the health destroying properties of milk. Study the puffy skin of his face. Note the bags under his eyes. Look at the stiffness of his walk. Milk, class, milk has done this to him!"

Bewildered, John looked at his glass, then up at the condemning faces, then back to the milk again. His lower lip quivered. "But," he whimpered, "but, this is only milk, isn't it?"

In the alcoholics anonymous meetings with which John was familiar, milk was practically mother's milk, synonymous with rectitude and purity. "I mean," he continued, to the unforgiving students, "I mean, it isn't whiskey, is it?"

By focusing on diet singlemindedly and ignoring all other aspects of life, alternative practitioners like Dr. L. come to practice a form of medicine that lacks a holistic perspective on life. This is ironic, of course, since holism is one of the strongest ideals of alternative medicine, and its most ubiquitous catchphrase (next to "natural").

It would be more holistic to take time to understand the whole person before making dietary recommendations, and
occasionally temper those recommendation with an acknowledgment of other elements in that person's life. But too often patient and alternative practitioner work together to create an exaggerated focus on food.

Many of the most unbalanced people I have ever met are those have devoted themselves to healthy eating. In fact, I believe many of them have contracted a novel eating disorder, for which I have coined the name "orthorexia nervosa." The term uses "ortho," in its meaning as straight, correct and true, to modify "anorexia nervosa." Orthorexia nervosa refers to a fixation on eating proper food.

Orthorexia begins innocently enough, as a desire to overcome chronic illness or to improve general health. But because it
requires considerable willpower to adopt a diet which differs radically from the food habits of childhood and the surrounding culture, few accomplish the change gracefully. Most must resort to an iron self-discipline bolstered by a hefty sense of superiority over those who eat junk food. Over time, what they eat, how much, and the consequences of dietary indiscretion come to occupy a greater and greater proportion of the orthorexic's day.

The act of eating pure food begins to carry pseudo-spiritual connotations. As orthorexia progresses, a day filled with sprouts, umeboshi plums and amaranth biscuits comes to feel as holy as one spent serving the poor and homeless. When an orthorexic slips up, (which, depending on the pertinent theory, may involve anything from devouring a single raisin in violation of the law to consuming a gallon of Haagen Daz ice cream and a supreme pizza), he experiences a fall from grace, and must take on numerous acts of penitence. These usually involve ever stricter diets and fasts.

Over time, this "kitchen spirituality" begins to override other sources of meaning. An orthorexic will be plunged into gloom by eating a hot dog, even if his team has just won the world series. Conversely, he can redeem any disappointment by extra efforts at dietary purity. Orthorexia eventually reaches a point where the sufferer spends most of his time planning, purchasing and eating meals. The orthorexic's inner life becomes dominated by efforts to resist temptation, self-condemnation for lapses, self-praise for success at complying with the self-chosen regime, and feelings of superiority over others less pure in their dietary habits.

It is this transference of all life's value into the act of eating which makes orthorexia a true disorder. In this essential characteristic, orthorexia bears many similarities to the two named eating disorders: anorexia and bulemia. Whereas the bulimic and anorexic focus on the quantity of food, the orthorexic fixates on its quality. All three give to food a vastly excessive place in the scheme of life.

It often surprises me how blissfully unaware proponents of nutritional medicine remain of the propensity for their technique to create an obsession. Indeed, popular books on natural medicine seem to actively promote orthorexia in their enthusiasm for sweeping dietary changes. No doubt, this is a compensation for the diet-averse stance of modern medicine. However, when healthy eating becomes a disease in its own right, it is arguably worse than the health problems which began the cycle of fixation.

As often happens, my sensitivity to the problem of orthorexia comes through personal experience. I myself passed through a phase of extreme dietary purity when I lived at the commune. In those days, when I wasn't cooking I managed the organic farm. This gave me constant access to fresh, high-quality produce. Eventually, I became such a snob that I disdained to eat any vegetable that had been plucked from the ground more than fifteen minutes. I was a total vegetarian, chewed each mouthful of food fifty times, always ate in a quiet place (which meant alone), and left my stomach partially empty at the end of each meal.

After a year or so of this self imposed regime, I felt light, clear headed, energetic, strong and self-righteous. I regarded the wretched, debauched souls about me downing their chocolate chip cookies and fries as mere animals reduced to satisfying gustatory lusts. But I wasn't complacent in my virtue. Feeling an obligation to enlighten my weaker brethren, I continuously lectured friends and family on the evils of refined, processed food and the dangers of pesticides and artificial fertilizers.

For two years I pursued wellness through healthy eating, as outlined by naturopathic tradition and emphasized with little change in the health food literature of today. Gradually, however, I began to sense that something was wrong.

The need to obtain food free of meat, fat and artificial chemicals put nearly all social forms of eating out of reach. Furthermore, intrusive thoughts of sprouts came between me and good conversation. Perhaps most dismaying of all, I began to sense that the poetry of my life had diminished. All I could think about was food.

But even when I became aware that my scrabbling in the dirt after raw vegetables and wild plants had become an obsession, I found it terribly difficult to free myself. I had been seduced by righteous eating. The problem of my life's meaning had been transferred inexorably to food, and I could not reclaim it.

I was eventually saved from the doom of eternal health food addiction through three fortuitous events. The first occurred when my guru in eating, a lacto-ovo-vegetarian headed on his way toward Fruitarianism, suddenly abandoned his quest. He explained that he had received a sudden revelation. "It came to me last night in a dream," he said. "Rather than eat my sprouts alone, it would be better for me to share a pizza with some friends." I looked at him dubiously, but did not completely disregard his message.

The second event occurred when an elderly gentleman (whom I had been visiting as a volunteer home-health aide) offered me a piece of Kraft Swiss cheese. Normally, I wouldn't have considered accepting. I did not eat cheese, much less pasteurized, processed and artificially flavored cheese. Worse still, I happened to be sick with a head cold that day. According to my belief system at that time, if I fasted on juice I would be over the cold in a day. However, if I allowed great lumps of indigestible dairy products to adhere to my innards I would no doubt remain sick for a week -- if I did not go on to develop pneumonia.

But, Mr. Davis was earnest and persistent in his expression of gratitude, and would have taken as a personal rebuke my refusal of the cheese. Shaking with trepidation, I chewed the dread processed product.

To my great surprise, it seemed to have a healing effect. My cold symptoms disappeared within an hour. It was as if my
acceptance of his gratitude healed me.

Nonetheless, even after this miracle I could not let go. I actually quit visiting Davis to avoid further defiling myself. This was a shameful moment, a sign that I was drowning.

The life-ring which finally drew me out was tossed by a Benedictine monk named Brother David Stendal-Rast. I had met him at a seminar he gave on the subject of gratitude. Afterwards, I volunteered to drive him home, for the covert purpose of getting to know him better. (This may be called "opportunistic volunteerism.") On the way to his monastery, although secretly sick of it, I bragged a bit about my oral self-discipline, hoping to impress the monk. I thought that he would respect me for never filling my stomach more than by half, and so on. David's actions over the subsequent days were a marvelous example of teaching through action.

The drive was long. In the late afternoon, we stopped for lunch at one of those out of place Chinese restaurants -- the kind that flourish in small towns where it seems no one of remotely oriental ancestry has ever lived. As expected, all the waiters were Caucasian, but the food was unexpectedly good. The sauces were fragrant and tasty, the vegetables fresh, and the eggrolls crisp. We were both pleasantly surprised.

After I had eaten the small portion which sufficed to fill my stomach halfway, Brother David casually mentioned his belief that it was an offense against God to leave food uneaten on the table. This was particularly the case when such a great restaurant had so clearly been placed in our path as a special grace. David was a slim man and a monk, so I found it hardly credible that he followed this precept generally. But he continued to eat so much that I felt good manners, if not actual spiritual guidance, required me to imitate his example. I filled my belly for the first time in a year.

Then, he upped the ante. "I always think that ice cream goes well with Chinese food, don't you?" he asked, blandly. Ignoring my incoherent reply, Brother David directed us to a Friendly's Ice Cream Parlor, and purchased me a triple scoop cone.

David led me on a two mile walk through the unexceptional town as we ate our ice cream, edifying me with spiritual stories and, in every way, keeping my mind from dwelling on the offense against Health Food I had just committed. Later that evening, Brother David ate an immense dinner in the monastery dining room, all the while urging me to have more of one dish or another. I understood the point. But what mattered more was the fact that this man, for whom I had the greatest respect, was giving me permission to break my Health Food vows. It proved a liberating stroke.

Yet, it was more than a month later that I finally decided to make a decisive break. I was filled with feverish anticipation. Hordes of long suppressed gluttonous desires, their legitimacy restored, clamored to receive their due. On the twenty minute drive into town, I planned and re-planned my junk food menu. Within ten minutes of arriving, I had eaten three tacos, a medium pizza, and a large milkshake. I brought the ice cream sandwich and banana split home, for I was too stuffed to violate my former vows further. My stomach was stretched to my knees.

The next morning I felt guilty and defiled. Only the memory of Brother David kept me from embarking on a five day fast. (I only fasted two days.) It took me at least two more years to attain the ability to follow a middle way in eating easily, without rigid calculation or wild swings.

Anyone who has ever suffered from anorexia or bulimia will recognize classic patterns in this story: the cyclic extremes, the obsession, the separation from others. These are all symptoms of an eating disorder. Having experienced them so vividly in myself twenty years ago, I cannot overlook their presence in others.

For this reason, as a practicing alternative physician I often feel conflicted. I almost always recommend dietary improvements to my patients. How could I not? A low fat, semi-vegetarian diet is potent preventive medicine for nearly all major illnesses, and more focused dietary interventions can often dramatically improve specific health problems. But I do not feel entirely innocent when I make dietary suggestions. Like drug therapy, I have come to regard dietary modification as a treatment with serious
potential side effects.

Consider Andrea, a patient of mine who once suffered from chronic asthma. When she first came to see me, she depended on several medications to stay alive, but with my help she managed to free herself from all drugs.

The method we used involved identifying foods to which Andrea was sensitive and removing them from the diet. Milk was the first to go, then wheat, soy and corn. After eliminating those four foods the asthma symptoms decreased so much Andrea was able to cut out one medication. But she wasn't satisfied.

Diligent effort identified other allergens: eggs, avocado, tomatoes, barley, rye, chicken, beef, turkey, salmon and tuna. These too Andrea eliminated, and was soon able to drop another drug entirely. Next went broccoli, lettuce, apples, buckwheat and trout, and the rest of her medications.

Unfortunately, after about three months of feeling well Andrea began to discover that there were now other foods to which she was sensitive. Oranges, peaches, celery and rice didn't suit her, nor potatoes, turkey or amaranth biscuits. The only foods she could definitely tolerate were lamb and (strangely) white sugar. Since she couldn't actually live on those foods alone, Andrea was forced to adopt a complex rotation diet, alternating grains on a meal by meal basis, with an occasional complete abstention to allow her to "clear." She did the same for vegetables, with somewhat more ease since there was a greater variety to choose
from.

Last week, Andrea came in for a follow-up visit, and described the present state of her life to me. Wherever she goes, Andrea carries a supply of her own particular foods. She doesn't go many places. Most of the time she stays at home and thinks carefully about what to eat next, because if she slips up the consequences continue for weeks. The asthma doesn't come back, but she develops headaches, nausea and strange moods. She must continuously exert her will against cravings for foods as licentious as tomatoes and and bread.

Andrea is happy with the treatment I've given her, and has referred many of her friends to see me. Yet, I feel ill when I see her name on my schedule. The first rule of medicine is "above all, do no harm." Have I helped Andrea by freeing her from drugs, only to draw her into the bondage of diet? My conscience isn't clear.

If it was cancer she had been cured of, or multiple sclerosis, I suppose the development of an obsession wouldn't be too high a price for physical health. However, all Andrea had was asthma. I have asthma too. When she took her four medications, she had a life. Now, all she has is a menu. Andrea might have been better off had she never heard of dietary medicine.

I am generally lifted out of such melancholy reflections by some substantial success. After Andrea, I saw Bob in follow-up, a man whose rheumatoid arthritis was thrown into full remission by one simple intervention: adding foods high in trace minerals to his diet. Before he met me, he took prednisone, gold shots and high dose anti-inflammatories. Now he has gone a full year without a problem. Seeing him encourages me not to give up entirely on making dietary recommendations.

But my enthusiasm will remain tempered. Like all other medical interventions -- like all other solutions to difficult problems -- dietary medicine dwells in a grey zone of unclarity and imperfection. It's neither a simple, ideal treatment, as some of its proponents believe, nor the complete waste of time conventional medicine has too long presumed it to be. Diet is an ambiguous and powerful tool, too unclear and emotionally charged for comfort, too powerful to be ignored.



Re: A classic revisited (Long and worth reading!) (Diet or nutrition?) Archive under diet and philosophy.

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 24, 1999 at 10:26:09:

In Reply to: Re: A classic revisited (Long and worth reading!) posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on October 23, 1999 at 13:17:27:

Thanks, RocketHealer Jim.

This whole thing reminds me (as if it were needed) that diet is NOT all there is. Remember that "nutrition" is a LOT more than diet!

First, one has to learn enough to know what good nutrition might be for them; then, they have to shop for the foods; then they have to bring them home and prepare them; then, they have to chew them , properly digest them, absorb them and the properly absorbed stuff has to go to the liver for processing. The processed metabolites have then to go back into the bloodstream and go to the cells where they have to get through the cell wall and finally be utilized properly inside the cell. At any one of these stages, "nutrition" can be stymied.

THIS is why understanding how the stress-effect storage in the hypothalamus changes every step in that litany is SO important. In THIS culture, without combining SR and exercise WITH any dietary change, little will be accomplished in the long run with diet alone.

If one is going to do only one thing it should be SR--not diet alone. Surely, going from the garbage most Americans call "nutrition" to any healthier diet, will help many people for a while. However, this would be ideally only the first step on the path to "wellness".

I hope this doc has, by now, gone beyond trying to understand wellness by peering through the "eye of the dietary needle".

Walt



Re: Anorexia/bulemia

Posted by searching on November 03, 1999 at 23:37:17:

In Reply to: Re: Anorexia/bulemia posted by Scared of Myself on October 20, 1999 at 12:17:44:

Hey Scared,

Maybe I can give you an idea of what you are walking into. I'm a guy. 26 years old. Been bulemic for 5 years. Started out like most of us, with a desire to be as perfect as I could be - high achiever, great job ... for some reason never satisfied. Rigourous exercise, controlled eating, so proud of my discipline - eventually eating ANYTHING over my defined 750 - 1000 calories a day brought on feelings of guilt and weakness. So I began to punish myself for the weakness by purging. Eventually you realize this THING is not about image and that there is no point when you can just STOP because you are satisfied - satisfaction never comes from this. It is a horrible cycle and controls every moment of your life. You will become slowly but surely isolated from all your friends and ANYONE who tries to get close to you. Starve yourself all day only to go home at night and be alone with your disease, your bad habit - no different from the heroin addict under the bridge. Look at yourself from the inside out - love who you are. Learn to eat healthy and resonably - DON'T let this become your god - once you become it's slave ... It wont ever let go. I fight every day against my addiction, some I win - some I lose. Everyday is a fight against myself ... my own worst enemy. Step back, slow down ... this is not the road you want to walk.
Hope this helps, all the best -



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