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I got the following from an email list whose archive can be found at escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html. This data came from a list's subscriber who works at a research organization where natural approaches to treating diseases are tested. Basically the protocol consists of CMO, MSM, Glucosamine/Chrondroitin, digestive enzymes, hydrolized collagen, and SAMe. Not all of the items are needed for everybody. Some were added to the protocol to help those test subjects that didn't get desired improvement from their basic protocol. Some of the subjects were in terrible state. They have found evidence of cartilage regeneration. A "side effect" of the protocol was a virtual elimination of digestive difficulties in
all of the subjects. The following is a compilation of that person's posts. Sources of materials used in the studies are mentioned.
Sorry for the formatting -- it makes it somewhat difficult to read.
Dr. Stoll, would you archive this please?
By the way, according to preliminary results of their other study, CMO helps with Lupus.
---------------------------------------------------
11 Jan 1999 Earlier Post on Arthritis Research Protocols
Dear List members. Due to the overwhelming email traffic generated by my
"accidental" on-list posting (1/5/99), I am taking this opportunity to pass
on information on an ancillary procedure we have added to the basic
protocol utilized in our original evaluations. While I have previously
given this information to several people via private email, in an effort to
convey this information to all of the rest....at one time, I will outline
the modification now.
This mod involved the addition of MSM (Methyl Sulphonyl Methane)[three
#2 capsules daily), plus two proteolytic enzymes (bromelain---40mg; and
papain---50mg), administered as one tablet each, three times daily.
Ideally, these are taken simultaneously with the Glucosamine/Chrondroitin
complex tablets. All volunteers in our study take their GS/Chrondroitin
tablets at meal-time. One interesting, serendipitous, result of this
latter addition is---the virtual elimination of digestive difficulties in
All of the subjects adding this modification. This protocol modification
has resulted in an approximately 30% increase in overall
effectivity---especially in response speed---as compared to the controls.
UPDATE P.S. Based upon the continuing portion (long-term analysis) of
our earlier, geriatrically-based, arthritis study, I am most pleased to
report that evidence of regeneration of damaged CARTILAGENOUS tissue seems
to be---dramatic---in some cases. e.g. One 74 year old male with severely
compromised knee joints (with constant and severe lateral dis-location
problems) and suffering from painful...complete dislocation...of the left
knee 4 to 6 times daily; has enjoyed a frequency reduction down to an
average of ONCE every two or three days. Additionally, he is totally pain
free in this joint----while abstaining from all pain relieving drugs.
Formerly, he was on a "pain maintenance" prescription involving the
equivalent of 8 eight aspirin daily. A dangerous circumstance requiring
continuous vitamin K supplements. And this, after 35 years of constant
immobility and discomfort. Although this is anectdotal---and a single
case, statistically; it is a 100% marvel to the gentleman involved.
Sincerely. Brooks Bradley.
-----------------------------------------------------
5 May 1999 Arthritis Protocol Supplementary
For those list members recalling my post last
year......summarizing our research with glucosamine sulphate and
chondroitin, et. al.; I offer a suggestion for those who actually
employed any of the variations discussed. Recently, we just completed
evaluations incorporating an additional substance---intended to assist
those arthritis cases involving severely compromised articulating
joints; even some with secondary bone surface erosion. These
evaluations were conducted on canines, not humans. However, based upon
our past researches, results gained from our canine-based researches
relating to arthiritis, have---almost universally---been directly
applicable to human subjects exhibiting similar conditions. This
particular protocol involved modifiying our standard glucosamine
sulphate/chondroitin-based protocol, plus the addition of 10 mg of
hydrolyzed collagen per pound of body weight for each dog. Of the 10
subjects, ranging in age from 4 to 14 years, ALL exhibited objective
physical evidence of marked increase in flexion, improved cushioning,
and reduced lateral drift under load. These data were substantiated by
high-quality X-ray scans. Some 30% of the subjects exhibited increased
cartilage density (over their selected controls receiving only the
Glucosamine S./Chondroitin protocol). These were the three oldest
dogs. Although, definite improvement occurred among the younger
subjects......it was not as pronounced as that experienced with these
older individuals.
We have just inaugurated our first tests involving human
volunteers. If any significant results are obtained, I will post a
summary of them at the conclusion of these evaluations.
The material we used was obtained from currently available
public sources. e.g. Walmart, health-food and nutrition centers. The
substance used was, conventional, enzymatically hydrolyzed collagen.
There are several, almost universally available sources accessable to
the general public.
We are rather enthusiastic in our expectations that this
simple addtion will be of definite value to our human volunteers.
Sincerely. Brooks Bradley.
p.s. There is some evidence that a positive synergistic condition
manifests between the GS/CS and the collagen; this is based upon the
comparisons against the Collagen-only and the GS/CS only groups.
------------------------------------------------------------
6 Aug 1999 ADJUNCTIVE ARTHRITIS PROTOCOL ENHANCEMENT
To interested list members.
We have recently experienced some very promising results
through an adjunctive protocol which adds S-Adenosyl-Methionine (SAMe)
to our successful MSM/Glucosamine/Chondroitin-based evalutions of the
recent past. This modification grew from the circumstances surrounding
a small number of advanced osteoarthritis "volunteers" who were unable
to gain complete freedom from pain in and around some of their
articulating joint areas----even after completing the basic protocol.
We were stimulated to investigate SAMe based upon its demonstrated
counteractive effects on cytokines and positive limitations of
homocysteine damage on cartilage. Through the simple expedient of
adding 400mg to 800mg SAMe daily, to our parent protocol, we were able
to gain, essentially, total pain relief in 3 of these 4 cases. The
fourth case did enjoy approximately 75% favorable pain resolution (and
well within the tolerable "constant" pain threshold). This latter case
had suffered massive bone erosion in both knee joints and exhibited very
severe cartilage wasting/damage. These results were obtained within a
40 day period. These cases had, previously, exhibited only partial
(50%) response to our basic arthritis protocol and had not achieved
limiting pain to within the "constant" tolerance threshold.
We believe this information may be of some interest and
import to researchers involved in analyzing the more intractable
arthritis cases. There were, absolutely, no adverse side-effects
experienced by any of the subjects----all beyond the age of 65 years.
I hope this information is of some value to persons
researching this field.
Sincerely.
Brooks Bradley.
------------------------------------------------
6 Aug 1999 My Recent Post on Adjunctive Arthritis Protocol
Dear List Members.
Within the past 20 minutes my email system has been
flooded with off-line
inquiries and comments.....most of them desiring information as to how
to obtain SAMe.
I am using this post as a forum to answer that
particular question. Since SAMe is a widely-available substance, sold
over-the-counter at numerous pharmacies and discount houses (not the
least of which is Walmart); finding sources should be a self-evident
enterprise----but if not, I encourage you to make a search of the web
and you will find a number of suppliers only "too willing" to sell you
this substance. SAMe is not a cure-all, but is a very useful
adjunct---most especially involving cases where ii is in systemically
short supply. One of our sister research organizations has, recently,
achieved "very powerful" results through incorporating this substance in
their liver cancer research protocols. I am not at liberty to identify
them......for this I do humbly apologize.
Sincerely. Brooks Bradley.
---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Sep 1999 request for arthritis information
> << Hi List,
>
> Does anyone have any links regarding arthritis information? Specifically,
> my elderly mom has rhemetoid arthritis and I think she could be helped by using
> it.
>
> Thanks,
> Thea >>
Dear Thea.
I would encourage you to consider employing a "one-time" course of Cetyl Myristoleate (CMO) in your "research protocols".
During our experimental arthritis protocols research effort in late 1998 and
early 1999, we experienced VERY profound successes among our "volunteer"
population (ages 55 to 82). Just be sure to obtain the CMO from a reliable
source. We used four different sources, but the material obtained from a young
chemist, Vincent Gammill at ygammil 1@san.rr.com and from the daughter of the
developer of CMO, at info@cmocure.net proved to be best......by far. We do
not promote the sale anyone's products, but we do endorse those substances we
find to be most efficacious in our researches.
I believe you would be well-served to investigate this avenue. There
is much general information to be found, on the Internet, on the nature and
function of CMO. We have used it in conjunction with Gluscosamine Sulphate,
Chondroitin Sulphate, Methyl Sulphonyl Methane (MSM) and enzymatically hydrolyzed
collagen------with profound success in both animal and human experimental
research.
Sincerely. Brooks Bradley.
--------------------------------------------------
25 Feb 2000
> Can anyone tell me what it is good for? They have the same blasted problem
> with the FDA prducers of CS have, they can't say what it does. Dang I hate
> the way the government that lets people lie all they want (even the
> president), but will put you in prison for telling the truth.
>
> This is what they say:
>
> "If we manufactured natural vitamin C and
> sold it as the cure for scurvy (which it is), we
> would be selling "drugs". Vitamin C can be
> manufactured and sold as a dietary
> supplement so long as you don't claim it
> cures scurvy.
>
> You can take vitamin C and it will prevent you
> from getting scurvy or cure you if you have it.
> We don't manufacture Vitamin C so we are
> allowed to tell you this.
>
> You can cure your scurvy with vitamin C and
> tell everyone you know. You can even go on
> the Oprah show. The manufacturer couldn't.
> That is why you will find no health claims on
> this web site (except those for vitamin C)."
>
> Marshall
>
Hello Marshall.
A general web search will provide a generalized
response regarding the appplication of Cetyl Myristoleate (CMO).
In summary terms CMO, supposedly, addresses a phenomenon, regarded by some reliable researchers, to be the FUNDAMENTAL cause for osteo and rheumatoid arthritis. The claim is that in normal individuals, a type of T-4 cell polices the synovial fluid in all articulating joints----removing debris fields and dead/detritius material---and NOT molesting any of the live tissue arrangements. For some, as yet, unknown reason....as many of us reach around 55 years of age, this process sometimes goes awry. These T-4 police cells lose the ability to distinguish between the live and the dead tissue......and begin attacking the live cartiledge and ligamentous tissue---resulting in the constantly deteriorating circumstances surrounding OA/RA sufferers. What CMO does is to simply "turn off" these T-4 cells. CMO DOES NOT cure arthritis, but; it is claimed that CMO does stop the attack upon live tissue fields.....by these scavenger cells gone haywire. The actual recovery from existing damage is effected by the body's own immune system, plus joint capsule- friendly modalities (e.g. chrondroitin sulphate, gluscosamine sulphate, MSM, enzymatically hydrolyzed collagen, etc.) During 1997/98 we conducted around 25 individual tests involving male and female volunteers (ages 50 to 83). Many were in crippling
circumstances. The general (EXPERIMENTAL) protocol included a "one-time" series of CMO at the rate of 6 each, 250 mg capsules of undiluted CMO wax (in powder form) daily; for 10 days. Little, or no, meat or fatty animal products were allowed, due to the possible compromising effects upon CMO.
1. About 1/4 of the volunteers received no additional---supporting--- protocols during
this time.
2. About 1/4 of the volunteers received glucosamine sulphate (GS) and chondroitin sulphate (CS) at the rate of 3000mg GS and 2400mf CS daily.
3. About 1/4 of the volunteers received GS, CS, plus 2000 mg of MSM.
4. The remaining 1/4 received all of the foregoing, plus approximately 4000 mg of hydrolyzed collagen daily. Interestingly, there occurred little variation in results during the first 10 days. As the evaluations proceeded , a divergence in results did occur; most markedly after the 20th day. Do recall that all CMO administration ceased on the 10th day. From the 20th day forward, the following, general, results were observed: (Group1) some detectable improvement (sometimes dramatic) occurred in 4 of the 6 volunteers in this group....regardless of the severity of the affliction. In NO case was
further acceleration/deterioration observed. (Group2) Steady improvement in mobility and pain recession occurred in 6 of the 7 volunteers in this group and 3 were totally pain free, with 80% range-of-motion in all major articulating joints----including the knees. (Group 3) Displayed the most even more dramatic alterations from among 5 of 8 and at least a 40% improvement in the other 3 volunteers. Some of these subjects, including one 81 yr male unable to walk without a walker at the outset....displayed very dramatic
improvement, including 95% pain relief, plus the ability to RISE and walk unattended
without either walker or cane. (This was accomplished by the 45th day). (Group 4) Exhibited results similar to Group 3, excepting an additional improvement in the range of motion of volunteers suffering from Heberden's Nodes (Large calcium deposits at the joints of the fingers). The addition of collagen to the protocol did, in fact, appear to aid both of the cases of HN. None of the HN sufferers gained as much range of motion as did these two.
In summary; Similar protocols seemed to be warranted by persons genuinely interested in alternative methodologies experimentation.
Sincerely, Brooks Bradley.
-------------------------------------------------
25 Feb 2000
> hi list members, anyone have a source for CMO . thanks in
> advance. Geoff
Dear Geoffrey..
We have used rather large quantities of CMO
in past researches.
We had two sources which proved superior to all others. One is under
the direction of the daughter of the gentleman who did most of the early
developmental work. You can contact them at
Http://www.cmocure.com The other, and for us at least, the
best---was from a young chemist who is a member of this list. His name
is Vincent Gammill and his email is Ygammil1@san.rr.com Vincent's
material proved to be (in our evaluations) superior in efficacy.
However, the material from the other listed source was quite adequate.
We have no commercial interest in any business or
supplier.....whatsoever.
I hope this information is of value to you.
Sincerely. Brooks Bradley.
p.s. Note Vincent's address carefully. That is the numeral one, not an
L, between the first L and the ampersand sign.
---------------------------------------------
3 Jul 2000
To interested List Members. We have received a
number of off-list inquiries relative to the nature and action of
CMO----during the past several months. I have endeavored to answer as
many as possible. However, time and conditions have overwhelmed me.
For the benefit of those list members I have failed to supply with
information, I refer you to this brief enclosure. It is the most brief,
general statement I have found ....that is, fundamentally, correct.
Although this is part of supplementary advertising, it is, essentially,
correct. We have not used these people's product, do not know them
professionally, and have no affiliation with them. Neither do we
endorse their products. For those of you interested in how we employed
CMO in our past researches, I refer you to the 1998-99 Silver-List
Archives. Interestingly, this flyer mentions several bio-enhancers we
had successfully employed ....during our past researches.
Sincerely, Brooks Bradley.
p.s. Any general search with a good, multiple-element, search engine
will provide more than adequate data.
http://www.nutrimart.com/Bulk/Description/cetyl_myristoleate.htm
CETYL MYRISTOLEATE
DESCRIPTION
Cetyl myristoleate, also known as CM, is an ester of the fatty acid myristoleic acid (cis-9- tetradecenoic
acid). It occurs in significant amounts in nature in the oil glands of male beavers and in mice. Diehl's
OwnTM brand CM is made by reacting myristoleic acid (derived from beef marrow) with cetyl alcohol. Harry
Diehl, a researcher at the National Institutes for Health, isolated cetyl myristoleate from the Swiss Albino
mouse, while looking for causes and treatments for arthritis. He has received 2 U.S. Patents on cetyl
myristoleate. Diehl's OwnTM CM is produced with his authorization, under the protection of his most recent
patent. Diehl's OwnTM CM is standardized to approximately 40% cetyl myristoleate. It also contains
approximately 41%cetyl oleate, 3% cetyl myristate, 4% cetyl laurate, and 5% cetyl palmitate, plus other
fatty acids and unreacted myristoleic acid and cetyl alcohol. Cetyl myristoleate has the formula CH3
(CH2)15 OCO (CH2)7 CH =CH (CH2)3 CH3. Its chemical name is cis-9-myristoleate.
PHYSIOLOGY/ PHARMACOLOGY
Both components of CM, cetyl alcohol and myristoleic acid, may increase lubrication and resilience of
cartilage or other tissues. CM may also inhibit the lipoxygenase pathway of leucotriene production from
archadonic acid. The C4,D4, and E4 pro-inflammatory leucotrienes stimulate antigen -antibody reactions
such as broncho- and vaso-constriction. The B4 leucotrienes attract white blood cells; a high concentration
of white may benefit from more. About one out of three people may find that continued supplementation at
ten to twenty percent of the original amount is supportive in maintaining good nutritional status. It is also
possible to deliver CM through the skin on the affected joints, using liposome technology in a cream base.
As additional support; use as desired.
BIO-ENHANCING AGENTS
We recommend taking other nutritional supplements such as glucosamine (HCl or sulfate) and chondroitin
sulfate, flax seed oil, primrose oil, methylsulfonylmethane(MSM), sea cucumber, green lipped mussel
extracts, medium chain triglycerides(MCT), cartilage, collagen, copper salicylate and antioxidents, along
with CM, to address the full range of causes of cartilage degradation. Many of the nutrients can be
combined in formulas.
Lecithin (to help emulsify the CM) and lipase (to help digest it) are helpful for people who blood cells may
be associated with the attacks on the body tissues in the vicinity, which may be related to auto-immune
reactions.
INDICATIONS
As a dietary supplement, for nutritional support for inflammatory conditions including osteoarthritis,
rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, prostatitis, ulcerative colitis, irritable bowel syndrome,
fibromyalgia, tendonitis, and bursitis. CM is not indicated for inflammation associated with recent injury,
but it may be indicated for support of joints prone to deterioration due to whiplash or other
hyper-extension/compression injuries. CM and other dietary supplements such as flax seed oil and primrose
oil may be indicated for nutritional support for auto-immune reactions.
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
Softgels: three 260 mg elemental CM softgels daily, split between breakfast and dinner.
Powder: 600 to 1000 mg elemental CM daily, split between breakfast and dinner.
Nutritional benefits vary. Most people will find that 12 to 18 grams elemental CM over three to four weeks
is appropiate. Larger people have difficulty digesting oils. We recommend minimizing caffeine, alcohol, red
meats, steroids, and refined sugar, flour, salt, and possibly foods in the nightshade family for anyone with
arthritis. Drink lots of distilled water, and eat lots of fiber and bioflavonoid-rich fruit and vegetables.
TOXICITY, CAUTIONS, & CONTRAINDICATIONS
No toxicity or contraindications have been noted. If gastric upset occurs, decrease the amount for a few days
and slowly increase back to the recommended amount, or take lecithin and lipase to aid in digestion.
In Reply to: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis posted by R. on May 02, 2001 at 04:20:41:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis/Thanks R/Great Read nmi Barb posted by Barb on May 02, 2001 at 13:55:01:
VF
In Reply to: I would add cod oil...nmi posted by Vince F on May 02, 2001 at 14:51:44:
Hey Vince,
How much? How did it help you?
Barb
In Reply to: Re: I would add cod oil...nmi posted by Barb on May 02, 2001 at 19:04:56:
Barb,
I had sharp pain under my knee cap and an old guy told
me to try cod since he had been taking it for 7 yrs for
arthritis. I tried it and it only took one gelcap to get
rid of the pain till I stressed my knee again like runing,
carrying something heavy or twisting awkwardly again. It was
my left knee so I always knew when it was acting up when
geting in the car since it was my left knee. I had to take
it for about 3 yrs but sometimes didn't need it for weeks.
I never finished a bottle of 100 caps and haven't needed it
for 11 yrs now.
I had a different problem with my knees and Natrol brand
MSM solved that in a week and it came back in 3 mo so I
took it again and it took about 10 days for it to go away
this time which is about a month it has been gone this time.
Other brands of MSM didn't do a thing for it and I took the
straight 500 mg MSM from them and not the 125mg with calcium
that my BIL picked up and just talked to the breeder of my
last male hound who is giving it to a 13 yr old that was
having problems geting up and she said it wasn't working as
good and she said she had picked up the version with less
MSM but with Glucosamine added so was going to double the
dose or go back to the straight MSM.
personally I don't like to take mixtures or complexes so
I can tell what helped if something does and I think that
sometimes 2 benificial things can interact and not do what
individual items can and the different benefits form the
different brands of MSM I have is a puzzle but they Must be
different.
VF
In Reply to: Re: I would add cod oil...nmi posted by Vince F on May 02, 2001 at 20:02:21:
First, regarding adding the oil. The researcher said they had their test subjects obstain from fats and red meat for the first few days because they thought it might affect CMO metabolism.
Regarding your dislike of combining several things... Sometimes, it's actually beneficial to mix things due to a synergy effect. For instance, in their studies they noticed a synergistic effect of GS/CS and the collagen. Keep in mind that they tested the protocol on a bunch of people, so they have some statistics, not just one person's experience. Also the results were substantiated by objective tests.
In Reply to: Re: I would add cod oil...nmi posted by R. on May 02, 2001 at 20:29:40:
just don't like them in One pill since I can't tell if one
of the things would have helped by itself or works better
with one thing and not another.
The cod worked for me and eveyone i know who has tried it
even 3 dogs. Now it didn't help my latest problem but that
was a different type of pain. same thing with cayenne. It
has helped everything I have tried it for and everyone I
know who tries it for the things it seems like it would.
About mixing or combining things. I am on a hunt to solve
my perferal neurpathy problems so am trying Everything that
has helped even if other things replaced them or aren't
needed like before and already i took 3 but seperately and
have about 5 more but I am waiting in between so I can tell
what might have done what and if anything bad happens like
my body Vibrating yesterday I won't maybe compound a problem
or not be able to figure out what caused what.
VF
In Reply to: I have no problem mixing things posted by Vince F on May 02, 2001 at 23:59:40:
Vince,
Thats a great suggestion. I'll try it on my whole family,
we all have bad knees, even my daughters. Especially my 13 year old, (quite active) But her bad knees keep her from doing too much sports.
thanks
barb
In Reply to: Re: I have no problem mixing things-back to the oil posted by Barb on May 03, 2001 at 16:10:42:
Barb,
I hope it works for you. It was the best 3$ I ever spent.
i was skeptical and told a weight lifting girl friend who
said she had arthritis in her wrists and when she told me it
helped I tried one of hers and it helped me. I had asked a
physical therapist who played tennis where I did what he
thought about it and scoffed and said, What does it do Lube
the joints. I often wondered how it Could work and then saw
a show about someone who died from a gunshot wound to the
knee and the dr's didn't remove the bullet and they died
from Lead poisoning. They said the Synovial fluid that Lubes
the joints dissolved the lead and poisoned them. Reading
up on it it is said to contain Vit A so that must be how it
can help.
Around the time I was taking it I hapenend to read the
newsletter from the New England Jornal of Med and they were
trying fish oil capsules for arthritis and people were being
given something like 20 caps a day! and they reported about
a 30% decrease in the pains. I wanted to holler, TRY Cod....
Many older people won't because they were given the fishy
tasting and smelling straight oil as kids. My sister can't
eat fish because of it and her husband had a hip joint
replaced and is trying to avoid having a knee replaced now
and refused to try the cod caps I Gave him and is Finally
trying the Natrol MSM.
VF
In Reply to: Re: I have no problem mixing things-back to the oil posted by Barb on May 03, 2001 at 16:10:42:
Barb,
I am a believer in Prolotherapy I believe in cayenne pepper for Many things and last week VF
In Reply to: another option posted by Vince F on May 03, 2001 at 18:29:16:
Vince - I have read often in your posts about how you rely on cayenne pepper for relieving muscle aches. Did you say you mix the pepper with water to make a paste, or do you just sprinkle it on a cloth and apply it?
In Reply to: Re: another option posted by Raisa on May 03, 2001 at 20:09:13:
I used to gargle with salt water and then started adding I had started trying a heating pad on my neck but it was They are studying cayenne for relieving chronic pain and They Say that eating hot peppers can be addictive since VF
In Reply to: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis posted by R. on May 02, 2001 at 04:20:41:
Thanks, R.
Just more proof that everything is connected. Just think what we will know in a few years! What helps LGS also helps arthritis and what helps arthritis also helps LGS. Of course there is a lot more to this story; stuff that we have been discussing on this 'site for years. Unless the individual who sees dramatic improvement with this regimen continues to learn about more of the causes, the problem will STILL recur eventually.
Namste`
Walt
In Reply to: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis posted by R. on May 02, 2001 at 04:20:41:
Thanks, R.
Just more proof that everything is connected. Just think what we will know in a few years! What helps LGS also helps arthritis and what helps arthritis also helps LGS. Of course there is a lot more to this story; stuff that we have been discussing on this 'site for years. Unless the individual who sees dramatic improvement with this regimen continues to learn about more of the causes, the problem will STILL recur eventually.
Namste`
Walt
In Reply to: Raisa... posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 00:48:15:
Your c/salt preparation sounds good. Do you think it would work for arthritis? I forgot to say that is what my friend has. It surely would be worth a try. How much cayenne pepper do you have to use with say, a half-glass of water?
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 10:51:22:
The cayenne can't hurt arthritis but I never tried it for the way i mix the c/salt to gargle with I put about 2 oz I'm gona try it on my knees since you have me thinking VF
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 12:44:42:
Thanks very much, Vince! I will tell my friend and let you know if it works for him.
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 14:00:28:
Another thing that may help is a hot compress. I tried I don't have pains but talking about treatments I figured I think I need some sleep. haven't slept since probably VF
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 15:11:34:
I'm sure hot compresses would work, but it's difficult to keep them "hot". The cayenne concoction would be like Bengay, only not have the sickening smell!
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 17:01:44:
I had to get out shoping and usually have to sleep before Seems like the cayenne did something for my knees but I I finally slept since I couldn't do anything but. Well, VF
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 17:01:44:
with so many things damaged or affected I look for answers I don't need the zinc like I used to after taking MSM VF
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 17:01:44:
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 20:20:00:
HI, Vince - Just noticed that I didn't answer your post about zinc and diabetes. I know that some kinds of insulin contain zinc but it doesn't have anything to do with the diabetes itself, I don't think.
In Reply to: Re: Raisa... posted by Raisa for Vince on May 06, 2001 at 09:37:56:
I Have worked in chemical plants, labs, with fuels, and I was curious because I saw Zinc in the name of different VF
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on May 04, 2001 at 06:53:23:
Can someone tell me please what "hydrolized collagen" is, and where you can buy it ? Thank you.
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.) posted by Tom on May 07, 2001 at 15:27:41:
Hi, Tom.
Your healthfood store has it as chondroitin.
I do not believe that it has been proven effective.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.) posted by Tom on May 07, 2001 at 15:27:41:
Hi, Tom.
Your healthfood store has it as chondroitin.
I do not believe that it has been proven effective.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on May 09, 2001 at 08:12:15:
ok, thank you !
In Reply to: Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on May 09, 2001 at 08:12:24:
If you were right, those two things would not be mentioned in the protocol as two separate items.
Sometimes it's difficult to prove that a substance is effective if it's taken alone. Many things work with other things synergistically.
and tendon problems and now they are saying it can rebuild
cartilage and the Dr I knew who did it gave a friend who
went for a back problem, One shot in his knee for a problem
and fixed that.
solved a strained shoulder by applying it to the site and
also cured a severly stiff neck also appling it one time
and I am thinking that applying it to the knees might do
what the prolotherapy does Without an injection. I have read
that the injection either feeds or irritates the area,
drawing blood to it which does the healing and since cayenne
gets hot it draws blood so just Maybe it will help in
another way. I add salt in water to the cayenne and soak
a paper towel and add dry pepper. Salt draws Lymph which
they say contains the white cells.
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Re: another option
Posted by Raisa on May 03, 2001 at 20:09:13:
I have a friend who constantly complains of shoulder pain, and he has gotten no good results from pain medications, many of which cause him to be dizzy, which is worse than the pain. He can relieve the pain with movement of the shoulders, but then he has to get up from bed and this wakes him up more. He also has knee pain (he had arthroplasty done on both knees about 6 months ago).
Do you think that perhaps your cayenne pepper remedy could help him? How often do you apply it. Do you make it into a paste with water? How much water? Thanks for any help you can give.
Follow Ups:
Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 00:48:15:
cayenne since it got rid of sore throats a Lot faster. For
my stiff neck and then shoulder pain I soaked a paper towel
with the salt water/cayenne mix I call c/salt now and
sprinkled more dry cayenne on the towel since I think the
mix is pretty mild for applying to the skin and just place
it on the sore area and Both times I left it on for 15-20min
and That's All it took. Now I don't think the strains were
that severe but the Did hurt a lot when i moved them in a
certain position. With my neck, when I moved my head a Sharp
pain went from my neck, over my scalp to my forehead.
too stiff to take the shape and kept falling if I didn't
hold it. The idea came from Mustard Plasters that I only
heard of but is has worked Great for me.
they say there is a substance they are calling, "P" for pain
that they say that the heat from the cayenne draws it out
and it takes a while for the body to replace it. I Don't
know if this has been proved or what is actually going on.
I Love things that only have to be used Once to solve a
problem and in Some things I have been lucky with me and the
hounds so am always open to something that will.
the heat releases endorphins which are our bodies pain
killers. Interesting about a guy I know who became a heroin
addict after Many traumatic experiences when he was young
like his parents dying young and seeing a budies head
blown off in Nam and then his fiancee being killed in a car
accident. He got off the drugs and claimed what makes it so
hard is that the bodies endorphins stop producing because
they are taking the drugs and that they experience the world
without the normal buffers which makes them want to kill
the pains. He said lights hurt your eyes and noises are Loud
Luckily he got himself turned around but he said he damaged
his veins and heart.
Follow Ups:
Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on May 04, 2001 at 06:53:05:
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Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on May 04, 2001 at 06:53:23:
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 10:51:22:
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 12:44:42:
that.
of hot tap water in a small glass and about 1/4 teaspoon of
both salt and cayenne in it and I just wet the paper towel
so the dry cayenne I put on it will stick and then put it
on the skin. I haven't seen where amounts make much
difference. I just salt and season to Taste.
about it since even though I got rid of pains they are
usually a little stiff when geting up and I would like to
get rid of that.
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 14:00:28:
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 15:11:34:
that before doing the cayenne plaster on my knees. I don't
think it does what cayenne does but it used to help with
strained muscles or a sore back so figured i would add it.
I should try them all and maybe solve things again. I used
the hot compress, cayenne, MSM, and cod. Then I took most
of what I have that helped muscle aches and circulation
along with the herb I just picked up, Guto Kola. Trying
to improve things that are related.
2pm yesterday.
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 17:01:44:
Why don't you sleep? Do you stay awake on purpose?
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 20:06:45:
The hot compresses seem to do enough even though they cool
fast since I feel a burning in the skin even after they cool
Must be the blood drawn to the area. I used to run hot
water on strains in my arms and it would help a lot.
stores open and though some stores open at 7 others didn't
open till 9:30 and I had a bunch to go to in different areas
and to not back track a lot I waited but being tired and
driving in rush hr traffic in a big city is rough and I have
been trying to get it done for days but today was the final
one for something so I pushed myself.
took or did everything that helps. Didn't need to but
wanted to try everything to help my legs and see what
happened. I have to get up often to put the hounds out or
get them water or food and they alternate. I think they
are Tag Team physical therapists.
maybe if I really had to. Now my day
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 20:20:00:
for other conditions. Though I don't think I am diabetic
I am said to have circulation and nerve damage so I look
at conditions that have similar problems to see if I can
get improvement. Looking up diabetis it looks like zince
is used in some way and wondering if you have any ideas.
I saw some insulins have zinc in the name. I asked a
diabetic friend and they didn't know. Zinc was something
that helped my legs and muscles tremendously from muscle
aches after activities and I also didn't feel the cold if
I took it before or after being out and I mean like having
a hard time remembering if it was cold or not and i walk my
hounds whenever I am up to it and that has been over nite
for a long while and it can be in the teens and windy and
though I bundle up since they have to check Everything so a
walk can take an hr and they are stoping and starting to
sniff things. being a mountain breed they actually prefer
the cold and my last male was an extreme and panted 363 days
a year and wanted to be out on the coldest days.
which I also don't need like i needed the zinc which I still
seem to when it is cold or maybe I just am affraid of
being too cold and uncomfortable and shortening a walk since
I don't walk them like i used to and was rarely doing it
for a long time like every few weeks or months.
Follow Ups:
Bengay
Posted by Vince F on May 04, 2001 at 20:35:25:
I think the cay/salt does more than just heat or creams. It
might be the salt but there isn't that much.. Think I
mentioned they are studying cayenne for chronic pain and
have a sports cream out with it in it. Capsasin.
VF
Follow Ups:
Re: Raisa...
Posted by Raisa for Vince on May 06, 2001 at 09:37:56:
Did you work in a chemical plant when you received your injuries? Sounds as if you have come a long way with curing yourself.
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Re: Raisa...
Posted by Vince F on May 06, 2001 at 12:32:50:
Many solvents but I was injured in an office estimating
structural skylights and something got in through
an open droped ceiling panel.
insulins since zinc helped me a lot and diabetes has
circulation and nerve problems I believe so I am curious.
My red blood cells were Said to be dameged but the Dr
wouldn't do a test. reading that zince was needed in the
outer membrane of red cells and mine were said to be rigid
and mishapen
recently read that zinc helps the cells activity, releasing
O2 and picking up lactic acid which is what I thought was
the problem. MSM that helped and made zinc not necessary
is said to flush out the acid that is said can crystilize
which is what it felt like.
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Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Tom on May 07, 2001 at 15:27:41:
Follow Ups:
Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on May 09, 2001 at 08:12:15:
Follow Ups:
Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on May 09, 2001 at 08:12:24:
Follow Ups:
Re: Highly effective protocol for treating arthritis (Archive.)
Posted by Tom on May 09, 2001 at 14:11:25:
Follow Ups:
I don't think hydrolized collagen is the same as chondroitin.
Posted by R. on May 15, 2001 at 21:52:09:
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