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Dr. Stoll:
I am writing in hopes of being enlightened on the dichotomy of effects on chondromalacia (and arthritis in general), i.e. physical wear and tear opposite the immunological difficulties. I have benefited from Chiropractic (thanks for your information, Dr. Kim!) and POSSIBLY Glucosamine (I've only been taking it for three weeks or so). The knees don't really grind like they used to; and the last few times I have been to my chiropractor she has said that everything in the hips and femurs is now aligned; so it would seem that biomechanically, for the most part, things are set up. However, there is still some occasional tenderness present (though not the same physical roughness and damage that there was).
Because I'm sure it is a factor, I might as well tell you that I also have colitis. Do you, then, think that perhaps more of my problem is rooted in immunological problems? And in that case, would what would largely help LGS, viz. an elmination diet (I know only SR will resolve it in the long run) also be one of the biggest helping factors for what I have thought was chondromalacia?
My only other question is this: If improperly digested peptides causes the body's immune system to attack it's own tissue, WHY does the body chose one joint (the knees in my case) over another to attack and destroy? I want to run the elmination diet to help with the colitis. I am wondering how much of a help it will be to the arthritis in general.
My last wish is to make you repeat what you have already said in the past, which is why I have been trying to look into this. Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer. I am only trying to learn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE about my condition and attack my problems for every single direction.
Thank you!
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Jeff C. on September 15, 2001 at 15:22:51:
Hi. I thought I would jump in until Dr. Stoll arrives. I can give you some suggestions to deal with the problems. You are right by saying SR is the most effective solution in the long run. However, there are things you can do to speed up the healing process and get your colitis under control, even help your knee problems as well.
Let me start with the colitis. This ALWAYS starts as chronic bracing which develops into LGS. At this point, your immune system (which is most active in the gut) is overtaxing itself. Your immune system may be attacking the most genetically weak portion of your body, your knees and gut. If you focus on your digestion, your knees will probably improve also. Later, I will give you another specific suggestion for your knees. Once the LGS starts, your lose the balance of gut microflora. Your intestines are in a state of dysbiosis. If you can get your gut back into balance again, the problems should resolve. So, how do you do that? SR will heal LGS. But, I personally believe it is a difficult task to accomplish with dysbiosis now present. The imbalance of flora just further inflames your gut. How can you expect to heal your colitis when the imbalance just keeps inflamming the problem. So, when it comes to LGS/Dysbiosis, it's a catch-22 situation. The LGS causes the microorganism invasion but then that same invasion in turn worsens the LGS. The LGS creates allergies that also in turn worsen the LGS. Therefore, in order to effectively heal LGS, you need to handle 3 aspects simotaneously: Blood flow to intestines (SR), dysbiosis, and allergies.
Some simple changes in diet, in my mind, are key to healing colitis. Eliminate grains from your diet. Eat organic beef, chicken, fish, kefir (raw if you can get it), vegetables, fruits, raw saurkraut, real sourdough bread. These "live" foods will help seed your intestinal tract with benefical microorgansism. These organisms also produce enzymes that help you digest the food. Eat fermented foods daily. Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is an excelent cookbook from www.westonaprice.org that has plenty of recipies that would fit this purpose. As far as nutritional supplements go, I recommend only a small handful for you: Primal Defense, L-glutamine, Aloe vera, SeaCure. If you can only use one or two, use the Primal Defense and L-glutamine.
Primal Defense contains soil organisms that kill viruses, fungi, parasites, mycoplasma, ameoba's, candida, and many other pathogens. You will need to take this product for at least 3 months. It is used by prominent doctors including Board-Certified Gastroenterologist Dr. Joseph Brasco. He uses it with great sucess in treating IBS, IBD, and non-specific colitis. This is probably the most powerful probiotic supplement you can get. It survoves stomach acid, does not refridgeration and even has high immunological effects like the production of lactoferrin, production of alpha interferon. Taking these SBO's is like getting a 2nd immune system.
SeaCure is a dietary protein supplement from white fish. It is in peptide form and is 100% absorbed by the intestinal react regardless of the condition of your intestines. It has been proven as a potent healer in gastrointestinal disorders.
L-glutamine is the prefered fuel of the lining of the entire digestive system. You can see why you would want to have this in your nutritional arsenal. Take 5-10g per day to heal LGS and colitis.
Aloe Vera is excelent for healing ulcerations of the intestinal tract. It has antiviral and antifungal properties. It also helps speed up transit time which stops poisons from being absorbed back into your blood stream
These supplements, plus a whole-foods diet that does not include grains but copius amounts of fermented foods, vegetables, fruits, and organic meats will help heal your colitis. Kefir is especially powerful. If you can get raw kefir, DO IT because people have reported serious cases of crohns and ulcerative colitis going into remission while drinking the kefir (raw goat's milk kefir)
For extra help with your knee problems, go to www.prolotherapy.com to find out about one of the most overlooked aspect of arthritic conditions, ligaments and tendons and the revolutionary treatment that heals them completely!
I hope this information helps you.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Helping you on September 15, 2001 at 18:24:16:
Thanks, Helping You.
When we say that the immune system is "attacking" the knees does that mean that it is literally gobbling up cartilage? It sounds so far out; I was just wondering.
I have some Aloe Vera juice which I may start taking. It jsut tastes rather bad. I also have some L-Glutmine, which I have yet to take. It's just rather experience.
Is the Primal Defense found in Health Food stores? Does it cause one to actually pass worms? I fear I would be horrified at seeing worms in feces.
I am working on getting my diet straightened out for a number of reasons. That's why I'm thinking of running the E-diet to cover all bases and cure myself of an food addictions/allergies.
I am a little skeptical of prolotherapy; for Dr. Stoll himself said in the archives that without relaxation the problem would probably return, as well that complications may not be known. By definition it still sounds sort of like surgery.
Thanks Again.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Jeff C. on September 15, 2001 at 23:09:21:
Yes. The immune system would literally be breaking down the tissue....I have had prolotherapy in almost every joint in my body without complication. All that is used in the solution is ordinary dextrose. Since YOUR body actually heals the tissue, there cannot possibly be any side-effects. Dr. Stoll IS right that the condition will return unless SR is practiced. keep in mind that prolotherapy has been around since the 1940's. It is used in many prominant clinics including the Atkin's Center. Thousands have people have undergone the therapy. None have died or have become worse from the procedure. I can't say that about most other therapies. It is MINIMALLY invasive. Your skin is NEVER cut open. Therefore, it is nothing like surgery. Unlike surgery, this procedure relies on the body's ability to heal itself and is therefore holistic in nature. Could you post the thread that Dr. Stoll speaks regarding prolo? Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:48:41:
Thanks, Helping You
I know nothing about posting links, so here pasted is the entire thread:
------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Sylvia on October 23, 1998 at 13:16:41:
Dear Walt,
Have you ever heard of a Dr. William J. Faber who has written a book called "Pain,Pain,Go Away"? I would like to know if you have knowledge about Prolotherapy. I found an article by this doctor on the web. http://www.prolotherapy.com/articles/fabernstljr.htm. The title is Non-Surgical Tendon, Ligament and Joint Reconstruction.
I am interested because I have low back pain. (I have your book and still have not found a consistant time to do relaxation.) The jist of the prolotherapy is that the ligaments are tightened up so the bones of the joint are held in place so they don't grind so much.
There are very few doctors who have been trained in this method. I guess this is why not much is known about prolotherapy.
Sylvia
Follow Ups:
Re: Prolotherapy Walt Stoll 12:12:46 10/24/98 (0)
Re: Prolotherapy Irene in TX 20:22:18 10/23/98 (0)
Re: Prolotherapy trish 18:09:14 10/23/98 (1)
Re: Prolotherapy Sylvia 07:15:52 10/25/98 (0)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Prolotherapy
Posted by trish on October 23, 1998 at 18:09:14:
In Reply to: Prolotherapy posted by Sylvia on October 23, 1998 at 13:16:41:
Hi, Sylvia.
My doctor specializes in Prolotherapy. He is in the Chicago area and has a web page at http://www.caringmedical.com/
There is some info on his page about it. He, too has written a book called "Prolo your Pain Away" and is, I believe working on another book specifically targeted toward sports injuries.
I have not needed that type of help, luckily, so don't know too much about it... but thought I'd let you know about my doc...
be well,
trish
Follow Ups:
Re: Prolotherapy Sylvia 07:15:52 10/25/98 (0)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Prolotherapy
Posted by Irene in TX on October 23, 1998 at 20:22:18:
In Reply to: Prolotherapy posted by Sylvia on October 23, 1998 at 13:16:41:
Sylvia,
I read that book too, and I was so excited by it that I tried prolotherapy for my own chronic pain. I had a set of treatments by two different doctors, both supposedly experts in the field.
The injections were painful, expensive, and time-consuming, and they didn't help me at all. Each of the two doctors suggested a boggling array of supplements to help with the healing process, which were also very expensive.
I do believe some people have been helped by prolotherapy, but it isn't a cure-all by any means. I know one person who claims the injections made her condition even worse.
Best of luck to you.
Irene
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Prolotherapy
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 24, 1998 at 12:12:46:
In Reply to: Prolotherapy posted by Sylvia on October 23, 1998 at 13:16:41:
Dear Sylvia,
Even if Prolotherapy worked for you, without the relaxation, it would likely recur---------one of the problems with ALL surgical approaches to this problem (make no mistake, Prolotherapy IS a surgical approach by definition).
Prolotherapy has been around for at least 40 years since I was taught about it in medical school. It is less traumatic than the conventional surgical approach but has many of the same complications & % results.
We just had a long discussion, on this BB this month, about people avoiding the most important approach to wellness (for them) until the very last. You seem to fit that pattern.
Walt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Prolotherapy
Posted by Sylvia on October 25, 1998 at 07:15:52:
In Reply to: Re: Prolotherapy posted by trish on October 23, 1998 at 18:09:14:
My thanks to Walt, Irene and Trish. I really appreciate the feedback. The author makes the treatment sound so great and doesn't talk about the negative aspects. This is a very informative BB.
Sylvia
------------------------------------------------------------
...I will keep prolotherapy in mind as a treatment option. Is it hard to find a practitioner? Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Jeff C. on September 17, 2001 at 01:21:31:
Here is another example I found that seems to be indicative of Dr. Stoll's opinion on prolotherapy. (Dr. Stoll, I hope you are not irritated by my using your old words.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Prolotherapy
Posted by Myrna on February 07, 2000 at 20:58:16:
Dear Walt:
You sound like a medical student who isn't revealing the
facts as they are. There are many people obtaining the
prolotherapy and with very good results, myself included.
Don't advise those who are in constant pain and need
this very wonderful treatment. It works. Dr. Faber is
a renown prolotherapist and knows what he is talking about.
Incidentally, this treatment has been around for more than
40 years. It's been used all over Europe for the last
100 years. Only in America do we travel at a slow pace.
We are known as the "Druggies" of the Universe, led by the
nose of the pharmaceutical industry in search of their
millions.
Follow Ups:
Re: Prolotherapy (A symptomatic treatment.) Walt Stoll 17:23:13 2/08/00 (0)
Re: Prolotherapy--Search In Archives Paulette 22:04:27 2/07/00 (0)
Re: Prolotherapy--Search In Archives
Posted by Paulette on February 07, 2000 at 22:04:27:
In Reply to: Prolotherapy posted by Myrna on February 07, 2000 at 20:58:16:
Hi, Mryna
DR Stoll does understand your point. If you look at top
right corner, you can input RE: Prolotherapy which will take
you directly to the archives. DR stoll posted reply to Mimi's post from August 19,1999 @ 00:39. His post was on August 20, 1999 @ 10:59 a.m. Several other posts which will
give you insight on his views.
Hope this helps
Paulette
Re: Prolotherapy (A symptomatic treatment.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 08, 2000 at 17:23:13:
In Reply to: Prolotherapy posted by Myrna on February 07, 2000 at 20:58:16:
Myrna,
What is needed is an accurate accounting of EVERY prolotherapy procedure!
NO ONE would suggest that these conditions, for which Prolotherapy is being used, are due to a "Prolotherapy Deficiency". EVERYONE doing this KNOWS that it is a symptomatic therapy.
THIS BB is about reversing the causes of those conditions. Those who are only interested in symptomatic treatment are on the wrong BB.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:48:41:
My mother had prolotherapy in 57' after 20 years of minor
but chronic back pain that started with childbirth that
got severe and a nurse friend told her that before she saw
any other Dr to go see a former orthepdic surgeon at the
teching hospital she worked at because he did Prolo and many
people were having fantastic results if he thought the
treatment would help. She had been in bed for 2 mo and couldn't get
on the exam table so he put her in the hospital to knock her
out and give the full treatment of 20 shots and in 2 days
she walked out of the hospital, never to have a back problem
for the rest of her life of 45 years.
I wouldn't call injections surgery or invasive and I saw
the procedure when I convinced a girlfriend to go who had
opted for surgery and they hit a nerve and gave her all
kinds of complications in her back and leg. Luckily the
prolo helped her though it took a few mo to finally fix her
and she went skiing the next yr. All it is is probing the
area and marking the spots where pain is felt and injecting
the dextrose and novicane solution in. I believe the
dextrose does fater what the body would do on its own but
take Much longer and how long depending on if you continue
to strain or aggrivate the problem/area. I know 2 other
people who had it done and one was cured with one visit and
his uncle had been cured 25 yrs before.
VF
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Jeff C. on September 17, 2001 at 01:54:48:
Thanks, Jeff.
On the contrary, I am flattered.
Since I am still learning about Prolotherapy, I hope everyone will bear with my changing comments about it. When I stop learning I will be dead.
My main point still is that: There is nothing wrong with anything harmless that helps so long as the individual uses the time to also do something about the causes.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Jeff C. on September 15, 2001 at 23:09:21:
Hi, Jeff.
Listen to Helping You.
Bracing is always a factor in stuff like chondromalacia. However, so too are the immune complexes related to LGS (which you have just proven you have by your diagnosis of colitis).
Diet does have its place and only your bodymind can tell you what changes to make. The problem is that it may take months to see a difference from any one change.
In the meantime the essential oils might add to the benefits of your Chiropractic and glucosamine.
Since the SR would ultimately help with both the bracing AND the LGS, it would be high on my list of priorities.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection posted by Walt Stoll on September 17, 2001 at 08:51:34:
I have moderately advanced OA in both hips. I am 47 years old, and have felt it for 3 years. It hit fast, and much of what I used to do became difficult or impossible. Here is what I did. First, I read everything I could written by Joseph Hackett and Robert McFerran, a great deal of which is on this site. I also read everything on Joseph's web site, and bought some of the books he talks about there. I did the elimination diet, and adjusted my eating accordingly. I started taking L-Glutamine and Primal Defense. I am do SR twice daily (ok so I miss a session once in a while, but not often). I am also taking the suppliments suggested elsewhere on this site, including MSM and SAMe. Drop the Tylenol and try this approach. I do not know if I am being "cured", but this approach seems to be working after 3 months. Pain is greatly reduced, and I have gained flexibility sufficient that one person at commented that I no longer walk like Mike Didka used to. Hey, cannot hurt to try it !
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll: Question on the LGS-Arthritis connection (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 17, 2001 at 08:57:20:
I thought Robert McFerran said that most arthritics would feel better than they had in a long time after the first week of the E-diet. Am I misunderstanding something???
Thanks
In Reply to: I Have Arthritis And I Did This..... posted by Tom on September 17, 2001 at 14:49:10:
You should post more often. Good to hear you are doing so well.
In Reply to: Really? It may take months?! posted by Jeff C. on September 17, 2001 at 22:30:27:
Look at my testimonial below, it all works. But it will take time. The pain from the allergic reaction will go away, but if there has been any joint damage you will feel the pain from the damage for a while, at least that is what I am experiencing. It takes time for the body to heal itself. Read the timelines section of Joseph Hackett's web site to get an idea.
In Reply to: Really? It may take months?! posted by Jeff C. on September 17, 2001 at 22:30:27:
Jeff,
I think that if diet is the problem, then changing it
will show results fast but then you have to pick the right
items.
VF
In Reply to: I Have Arthritis And I Did This..... posted by Tom on September 17, 2001 at 14:49:10:
Thanks, Tom.
Testimonials do more good than ANYTHING I can say. NOW, whatever symptoms you still end up with are determined by how much permanent damage you have. Are you overweight?
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: I Have Arthritis And I Did This.....TESTIMONIAL posted by Walt Stoll on September 19, 2001 at 09:13:40:
I am 6 ft tall and weigh appx 180 lbs., 36 inch waist. I could drop a few pounds, but I am not seriously overweight. I am hopeful that, like Joseph Hackett, over time the joint space in my hips and elsewhere will improve. I still had some space left in both hips when I started this, so there had not yet been any bone damage. From Joseph's experience I suspect this process will take some time. I have been at this now for appx 3 months, and in Joseph's case at that point he was really only beginning to see improvement. In an e mail to me he told me that he still sees slight improvement even now several years later, and interestingly, lately he can no longer turn on arthritis pain by eating incorrectly. In Dr.Campbell's book he published x ray evidence of siginicant joint rebuilding over time using his approach (which by the way is a pure AG diet and works for AGs but not HG's like me). I will post more in a few months when I see how this progresses. I already have some choice words for my Orthopod, and for select segments of the American food industry, which I will share then. Thanks Doc.
In Reply to: Really? It may take months?! posted by Jeff C. on September 17, 2001 at 22:30:27:
Hi, Jeff.
Listen to Vince & Tom. IF you are lucky enough to identify the food(s) that are causing your symptoms, it takes only a week or so to see results. There is a hierarchical list of the most common foods to try.
However, it might take you months to find a food that is triggering. In the meantime dealing with the LGS will shorten the time you will need to be off whatever trigger you find before being able to have it again.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Really? It may take months?! posted by Walt Stoll on September 19, 2001 at 10:04:09:
Thanks, Dr. Stoll.
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