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I'd like your opinion, Dr. Stoll, on taking Tylenol, extra strength for my hip joint arthritis. I cannot tolerate Celebrex or Ibuprofens. After 9 months of Celebrex, my stomach was at a point of feeling like it was on fire when I ate. Stopped 3 months ago, recovered from it.
My new doctor told me Friday, that I should take 2Tylenol, 500mg. THREE times a day, every day, not just on "bad" pain days. I have an article from 1994, that said John Hopkins did a study on it and said that taking ONE everyday for a year, causes a 50% risk of kidney failure.
Can you comment on this. I'm afraid to take that much, now, and yet hate to "insult" the doctor's judgment. Thanks.
In Reply to: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 16, 2001 at 08:53:48:
In my experience, it is more important to worry about yourself than whether or not you're "insulting" the doctor. Take care.
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Gwynne on September 16, 2001 at 10:21:30:
I agree with Gwynne. Although, I believe, the damage that tylenol does is to the liver as well. I have read elsewhere (I will try to find the link) that 4000 mgs a day is considered to be toxic, causing liver failure in a short period of time. I also know a family who lost their mother because whe was taking too much tylenol and she was unable to get a transplant soon enough.
And I have experience taking large amounts of tylenol, and eventually it will also irritate your stomach, as it did mine.
Try glucosamine, chondroiten, MSM, or aspirin, all of which would be better for you.
Don't be afraid to insult your doctor. Actually, don't be afraid to dump him altogether.
In Reply to: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 16, 2001 at 08:53:48:
Tylenol, although probably safer than most other NSAID's taken on a regular basis for OA, can still cause stomach and liver problems. You metion Celebrex. This is a Cox-2 Inhibitor which has been shown to relieve the pain of OA better than traditional NSAID's. However, there are side-effects like you mentioned. But, don't give up on Cox-2 inhibitors. Certain herbs contain Cox-2 inhibitors that work just as well as prescription agents but NO side-effects. Ginger happens to be one of them. Tumeric is another. A company called "New Chapter" has put together an herbal Cox-2 inhibitor product called ZYFLAMEND. This product contains the best-known herbal Cox-2 inhibitors in their proper dosages and potencies. You may want to give those a try. Here are some other suggestions:
1) have your legs measured. It is not uncommon to have hip pain or arthritis as a result of improper biomechanics. If one hip is higher than the other, a foot-raise or chiropractic adjustments can re-align the hips and relieve the structural problems. This alone can lead to decreased pain
2) Other joint medications with anti-inflammatory properties include MSM, CMO, EFA's, and Lyprinol (an extract from the Green Lipid Mussel).
3) Diet can be a big help. Try eliminating night-shade vegetbales or other food that don't agree with you. Increase fresh fruit and vegetbale consumption. Eat more fish, and include fermented foods like kefir, raw saurkraut and real sourdough bread. Arthritic problems often start in the gut. getting your digestion back on track may alleviate most of the condition
In Reply to: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 16, 2001 at 08:53:48:
Cathy, Other than liver damage, if you have any allergies or asthma, do not take tylenol. Aspirin blocks the production of prostaglandin pge2 which is a marker for increased rates of allergies and asthma. Tylenol when replacing aspirin especially during fever increases pge2 production which increases allergies and asthma. Good luck
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:42:01:
Thanks to all the posters responding. Regarding the longer leg advice...I DO have that problem since I fractured my hip 14 yrs. ago. Never noticed the difference til a few years ago. Probably, why both hip joints hurt equally, now. I just started with a new Dr. (a DO)who should know about the skeleton. Haven't discussed that yet. Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 17, 2001 at 11:10:04:
If one hip is off, that throws the other one into stress. This is why it hurts. Also, having inflexible hamstrings puts a lot of stress on the hips and low back. Keep in mind though, that NSAID's like tylenol actually speed up cartilage destruction. Herbal Cox-2 inhibitors and botanicals like glucosamine actually repair damage and slow down the destruction. What D.O are you seeing?
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 11:36:23:
Hi everyone, is Tylenol classified as an NSAID? I thought it didn't have any of the anti-inflammatory properties like Aspirin or Ibuprofen.
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:42:01:
and other herbal and/or natural treatments for pain like Helping You mentions. It's from the July '01 issue of "Delicious Living" a feebie magazine. Long gone from the health food stores, but the article is available in the archives of the HealthWell website, along with many others of interest. I found this one by doing a site search on COX 2.
http://128.242.211.97/delicious-online/D_Backs/Jul_01/pain.cfm?path=hw
I agree with the others about hip/pelvic rotation or different hip heights causing back pain. I had this problem too--fortunately mine was temporary and correctable with massage therapy. My therapist is trained in St. John neuromuscular therapy and visceral (organ) massage and also does muscle releases, pelvic stabilization, and trigger point therapy. I've also been doing exercises to strengthen my abdominal muscles, and this has done wonders for my low back and hip pain.
I understand that your hip height/leg length problems may not be correctable, but you might benefit from a lift or insole in the shoe of your short leg. I used two flat Spenco green foam insoles in my short leg shoe, then switched to one, then none as I got evened out.
Good luck with the new D.O.!
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 16, 2001 at 08:53:48:
I have osteoarthritis of the hips as well. Rather than medicate I am trying the approach that Joseph Hacket used to cure his RA. I am also taking the suppliments that are referenced elsewhere on the BB for OA (especially SAMe), and am taking Primal Defense. I must say that over the 3 short months I have been doing this my pain level is down dramatically, and flexibility increased. I am not cured, but I seem to be getting better. I suggest that you read everything on this BB by Joseph and Robert McFerran, and Joseph's website. Good Luck.
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (NSAID?) posted by kmd on September 17, 2001 at 12:50:34:
Hi, kmd - I am under the same impression. Acetaminophen is used only to help reduce fever and pain, but is not an inflammatory. Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Davetx on September 16, 2001 at 17:03:58:
Are you saying that aspirin is good for allergies?
Joan in Az
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (NSAID?) posted by Raisa on September 17, 2001 at 16:13:35:
It is still classified as NSAID'S. Even if it weren't, I would still not use it for long-term arthritis relief because it speeds up cartilage damage, causes liver problems, GI problems, and leads to LGS. I would use it if I had an occasional headache or backache. That's what it's there for. But nobody ever intended it to be taken on a daily, long-term basis.
In Reply to: Hey Davetex -- posted by Joan on September 17, 2001 at 21:32:40:
Joan, No, That is not the answer to solving allergies, but health alert has been having several articles on tylenol lately and there studies show not to use tylenol if you have alergies and to use aspirin instead, because it does not promote allergies. May be the way the bucks are falling. Good luck
In Reply to: Re: Hey Davetex -- posted by Davetx on September 18, 2001 at 00:25:01:
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (NSAID?) posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 23:47:11:
Hi HY,
Would you have any info regarding Fiorinal? I know it's a barbiturate with caffeine and aspirin. I've been taking it for years (sometimes quite frequently) for tension headaches. Would any of those ingredients cause any of the things you listed or more? Thanks.
Namaste`
Joanie
In Reply to: Tylenol posted by Cathy on September 16, 2001 at 08:53:48:
Hi, Cathy.
Fortunately I have no such compunction about saying that this physician is wrong. Johns Hopkins is right.
ALL long term studies show that arthritis progresses faster in anyone taking any anti-inflammatory regularly. Where the devil has your "doc" been?
Are you overweight?
Your very best course right now would be to take 750 milligrams of glucosamine sulfate twice a day and the essential oils on the home page. MSM may also help but, if you take too many things at a time--while you are just learning what helps--you will get lost in the details even though you may well get quicker results.
Let us know how you are doing in a few weeks (or sooner)when you start getting results.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol posted by Gwynne on September 16, 2001 at 10:21:30:
Thanks, Gwynne.
If a doctor says something stupid you are doing him a favor by telling him; else he will tell it to someone else and hurt them as well.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (Allopathic paradigm running wild!) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on September 18, 2001 at 08:28:15:
Thank you, Dr. Stoll, for your response. I have tried MSM, and I've been on the Glucosamine500mg/Chondroitin200mg for two years. Felt no better. I've been trying to lose 15 lbs, but, not much success. I know the excess weight is hard on hip joints.
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (Allopathic paradigm running wild!) Archive in arthritis. posted by Cathy on September 18, 2001 at 09:47:32:
Hi Cathy, since Walt recommended 750mg twice a day and you've only been taking 500mg once a day (from what I can tell), with no results, maybe at the higher dose it would help you. Also, make sure you are purchasing quality brands of any supplement you buy!
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (Allopathic paradigm running wild!) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on September 18, 2001 at 08:28:15:
Notice that Dr. Stoll did not mention chondroitin. Recent studies indicate glucosamine by itself (w/o chondroitin) is better for arthritis.
In Reply to: Here's a link to an article about herbal COX-2 inhibitors...msg posted by Nutmeg on September 17, 2001 at 13:45:48:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Tylenol (NSAID?) posted by Joanie on September 18, 2001 at 08:06:38:
Yes. Asprin causes stomach bleeding, even in small doses. some of the herbal ideas in the posts above plus the glucosamine meds would be a better long-term choice. herbal Cox-2 inhibitors are quite potent.
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