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Dr. Stoll:
I have been to Hulda Clrak's webpage and noticed how drastically different her theories on arthritis are from this website's, namely that osteoarthritis is caused by bacteria in the joints, while rheumatoid arthritis is caused by roundworms in the joints. Thus arthritis, she claims, can be cured by herbal parasite cleanses and regular zapping.
I know there was a link to her page from this site; do you believe in her theories? I am skeptical, for her theories don't seem to correlate in the least with yours (bracing, LGS, etc.) or Robert McFerrans diet recommendations. To be sure, I don't see how a chronic disease like arthritis could be a "zapping-deficiency" disease.
I would appreceate your insight. Thanks...
Jeff
In Reply to: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 16:03:02:
Sorry if I'm jumping in uninvited…I'd just like to share my thoughts on the subject.
I have read two books by Dr. Clarke, and was not too impressed.
I did get the impression that she was genuinely interested in helping people. But her theory is very simple, obviously based on the areas that she is familiar with, such as chemistry or microbiology, but ignoring other areas that she is not particularly good at, such as nutrition or two-way functioning of body and mind.
Her explanation is an example of what is sometimes called linear thinking. For instance, take the arthritis example you mentioned. It is not that she takes arthritis for a 'zapping-deficiency'.
Rather, she believes that if the bacteria are the cause of arthritis, then destroying the bacteria will remove arthritis symptoms. You know, like, if A together with B causes C, then removing A and/or B will remove C. This is not so different from the classical Western medicine's approach to diseases caused by micro-organisms; only she's using a slightly unorthodox method of zapping and not antibiotics.
In addition to the outside agents, she puts great emphasis on environmental pollution. (Using an approach that sometimes verges on hysterical). But somehow she seems to ignore the human organism, and the role it plays in balancing sickness and health.
She makes complex things sound simple, and a lot of people approve, because that is how they wish things would be. Unfortunately they are not.
Her theories open for many questions, rather than answering the ones we have. I would not mind if she showed some more humility and caution. Claiming to have definite answers to complex conditions only shows ignorance – not realising that different causes can lead to same end results (conditions), for one. Also historical ignorance – not realising that we constantly arrive at new knowledge and can at best know only a part of the picture.
Having said all that I don't think her contribution was irrelevant. Generally, I can agree that parasites contribute to many chronic illnesses. What is more interesting is to get better overview of when this happens, how and why. Her approach is too simple in that way.
Regards,
Sonja
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Sonja on October 13, 2001 at 17:05:47:
Thanks, Sonja.
I can understand that if bacteria had a hand in arthritis, then destroying the bacteria would help. However, I think something must have caused the arthritis in the first place.
Dr. Stoll's ideas about arthritis and the bracing/LGS eitiology seems to make more sense to me.
I think you are right that she is mistaken in passing over the function of the of the body/mind.
Jeff
In Reply to: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 16:03:02:
that some cases of arthritis are caused by a bacterial infection -- even "modern" medicine acknowledges this....and somes studies have shown that in a high percentage of patients, the biopsy of joints of those with arthritis contain a certain type of parasite (don't remember which). As for the rheumetoid arthritis, many doctors are finding some success treating with abx in *some* patients.
HOWEVER, to think that parasites are the sole cause seems incredibly simplistic and erroneous to me, and in many cases the cause and effect isn't clear -- that is, which came first. If there are parasites, then that leads you back to many of the fundatmental topics this site discusses (LGS, etc.). In some sense, the theories may not be so disassociated as they appear, although I think Clarke's ideas are, as Sonja says, too linear, and certainly much too narrow.
In Reply to: It is true... posted by LisaT on October 13, 2001 at 20:51:32:
Thanks
Well, with that said, how does one know whether their joint problems are caused by infection or not?
Jeff
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 22:37:49:
maybe a joint tap? I know that a regular blood test can often show when the body is fighting an infection, but in chronic infections, I'm not sure how accurate this would be. I know the study I heard about (listening to the radio), they took samples from the joint. I'm sure though that some docs (most?????) won't even give this possibility the time of day. Maybe someone else will have some suggestions?
Lisa
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 22:37:49:
Having cured 2 joint problems with nutritional supplements.
cod liver oil and MSM I think there can be different causes
for them or maybe an imbalance can allow bacteria to take
hold. Maybe I have been lucky to run into the solutions I
needed. The cod was needed for a few years but only when
needed and I stressed the joint but hasn't been needed for
over 10 years and the MSM was needed for about 10 days
and was gone for 3 mo and then again 4mo ago. I now take it
whenever I feel an ache and one capsule will get rid of it.
I don't take it for maintance since it doesn't seem to help
or be needed. When i took the cod oil it only was needed or
helped when I had pain. I have taken other things that
solved problems that didn't seem to prevent the problem if
taken even a short time before. It seems to be that I need
to suppliment just before the event that causes the problem.
VF
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Vince F on October 13, 2001 at 23:12:44:
Vince,
It is ridiculous to say that you have "cured" a joint problem via MSM supplementation, since there is no such thing as an "MSM-deficiency" syndrome. IF you had truly cured it, you wouldn't have the occasional pain anymore; and were it a cure, it wouldn't be a SUPPLEMENT.
If you read the archives, you will see that Dr. Stoll has NEVER EVER claimed that supplements could cure a problem. To be sure, he has emphasized over and over again that they cannot.
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 23:41:55:
Jeff C, Walt has said that Vitamin C (a supplement) can CURE the common cold if taken early enough and in high enough dosage...
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 23:41:55:
jeff, you are right...I Didn't cure the problem. I Just
don't have the one that cod oil made hide and since it took
3 years to make it go undercover for 11 yrs and made it
vanish for weeks at a time till I stressed the joint I
anticipate that the problem that MSM has made hide could
take time to make it Seem like it is cured but daily pains
that Vanish for months at a time or for years I"LL call a
Cure. A physical therapist friend told me the cod Couldn't
help and asked if I Thought it lubed the joints. Guess he
Knows but me and the old guy who told me it worked for him
solved a problem the Therpist Didn't know how to.....
VF
In Reply to: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 16:03:02:
Thanks, Jeff.
Only time will tell which approach finally is the closest to the truth. I cannot deny the validity of anyone who gets results from ANY approach.
HOWEVER, I DO know that what I have learned will serve as a basis for further understanding whereas what Hulda has proposed is an end in itself.
I would be interested in the experiences of anyone who tries either approach (good or bad).
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by kmd on October 14, 2001 at 01:04:02:
Yah, kmd.
However, a cold is an "acute" (self limited and short term) problem and arthritis is a "chronic" (open ended and long term) problem. BIG difference.
Hope this helps.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Sonja on October 13, 2001 at 17:05:47:
Thanks, Sonia.
Good summary and much like my own interpretation.
Walt
In Reply to: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Jeff C. on October 13, 2001 at 16:03:02:
Jeff,
I don'tknow if the Zapping is anything like the Spark
therapy that a friend had done to repair a torn tendon that
only took 2 treatments. Maybe the zaping stimulates the
cartlidge between joints to grow. That wouldn't be a
Defficency of Zaps or Sparks like a difficency of some
nutrient that might not be being supplied or absorbed or
much higher doses could be needed than the RDA. I found that
a lot of zinc helped relieve severe pains from physical
activity but There again MSM eliminated the need for zinc
and also for sinus meds of which 2 together were needed.
I Know I wasn't difficent in Sinus Meds that i had to take
daily so I Must have been defficent in the MSM that was
Only needed for 3 days. I Know my sinuses aren't cured
but it SURE feels like it...but what do I know.
VF
In Reply to: that's probably the million dollar question... posted by LT on October 13, 2001 at 23:05:08:
The testing is done in research labs with electron microsopes and not available to the physicians and the general public. It would be impractical and too expensive at this point.
In Reply to: No test available posted by steven on October 14, 2001 at 09:28:36:
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Sonja on October 13, 2001 at 17:05:47:
Can someone tell me how bacteria impacts on the joints and causes arthritis? What is the link?
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Reader on October 15, 2001 at 11:59:45:
Lyme disease will affect the joints. I would imagine it
inflames them. Must settle in or around them but I wonder if
toxins could be released or something else happening.
VF
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Reader on October 15, 2001 at 11:59:45:
When the bacteria settle in the joints, a localized reaction, inflammation, occurs.
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Sandy on October 15, 2001 at 15:30:47:
Thank you, Sandy - now it makes sense.
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Vince F on October 14, 2001 at 04:01:16:
Dear Dr. SToll
I was told by an internist that I probably had a Baker's cyst twice now and that it broke. He simply said I had high
blood pressure, to lost weight and watch the stress and come
back to see him in 3 months. I have read everything I can on your website. I am ordering the book. My question is this. I had polio when I was 2 and am now 49. I have been under much stress these past 4 years. My knees hurt all the time and walking is painful. I also have bunions and the joints hurt elsewhere. I want to start an exercise routine with weights et... Is it ok What should I not do?
If I am told to have surgery what should I make sure the doctor is doing. Also could post-polio syndrome or the fact I had polio have anything to do with this BAker's cyst. I feel that I do have osteoarthritis. I want to be proactive and get some help. I have 2 children and am a single mom and want to remain mobile far into my eighties.
I don't know what medication I should or should not take either. AT present I am on nothing for the pain. Do I need to be careful to over extend the muscles since I know that with post polio I may be using up any muscles I still do have in my right leg. Thank you. Teri
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by Walt Stoll on October 14, 2001 at 08:02:35:
Dear Dr. SToll
In response to Dr. Clark's theory. I lived in South America for a few years and had Amoebic Dysentery severely.
I also have had other parasites here in the states afterwards a few times. In reading these responses I am very curious if this has anything to do with the osteoarthritis and baker's cyst that I am currently experiencing at 50 years of age. I was overseas in my late 20 and early 30's. I was pregnant and quit taking the medicine to completely clear it up as it was producing mood swings and complications and also the pregnancy. Could there be something to her theory? Is it possible not to have completely rid my body of parasites? Am I on mars?
Thanks for your response.
In Reply to: Re: It is true... posted by Teri Kowka on November 26, 2001 at 16:04:36:
Hi, Teri.
DEFINITELY lose the weight. That may give you enough time to resolve this.
See the note about the proof that glucosamine (not yet archived) actually not only helps with pain of osteo byt produces radiologic proof of healing. Since it has no side effects and those heavily promoted prescription drugs actually cause the condition to progress faster while they help with the pain......
You have to make sure that the surgeon repairs the rip in the capsule that caused the "cyst".
You have to get rid of your bracing or the increased intra-articular pressure caused by it will just bust out another rip.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll's theory of arthritis vs. Dr Hulda Clark's posted by mary tka on November 26, 2001 at 16:13:09:
Hi, Mary.
I think there could be something to her theory so far as it goes.
LGS would make anyone much more susceptible to parasites though. Since parasites are all around ALL of us ALL the time, our only defence is a healthy bacterial environment inside our colon. SO, that brings us full circle to knowing that LGS has to be the major, correctable factor in the equation.
Walt
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