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Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Misty L. Trepke"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: [S-A] [SoFlaVegan] Why Don't The Amish Have Autism?


> Comments?
> Misty L. Trepke
> http://www.searching-alternatives.com
>
> Why Don't the Amish Have Autistic Children?
>
> The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly
> By Dan Olmsted
> UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
>
> http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050321-115921-9566r.htm
>
> Lancaster, PA, Apr. 18 (UPI) -- Part 1 of 2. Where are the autistic
> Amish? Here in Lancaster County, heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country,
> there should be well over 100 with some form of the disorder.
>
> I have come here to find them, but so far my mission has failed, and
> the very few I have identified raise some very interesting questions
> about some widely held views on autism.
>
> The mainstream scientific consensus says autism is a complex genetic
> disorder, one that has been around for millennia at roughly the same
> prevalence. That prevalence is now considered to be 1 in every 166
> children born in the United States.
>
> Applying that model to Lancaster County, there ought to be 130 Amish
> men, women and children here with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
>
> Well over 100, in rough terms.
>
> Typically, half would harbor milder variants such as Asperger's
> Disorder or the catch-all Pervasive Development Disorder, Not
> Otherwise Specified -- PDD-NOS for short.
>
> So let's drop those from our calculation, even though "mild" is a
> relative term when it comes to autism.
>
> That means upwards of 50 Amish people of all ages should be living in
> Lancaster County with full-syndrome autism, the "classic autism"
> first described in 1943 by child psychiatrist Leo Kanner at Johns
> Hopkins University. The full-syndrome disorder is hard to miss,
> characterized by "markedly abnormal or impaired development in social
> interaction and communication and a markedly restricted repertoire of
> activities and interests," according to the Diagnostic and
> Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
>
> Why bother looking for them among the Amish? Because they could hold
> clues to the cause of autism.
>
> The first half-dozen articles in this ongoing series on the roots and
> rise of autism examined the initial studies and early accounts of the
> disorder, first identified by Kanner among 11 U.S. children born
> starting in 1931.
>
> Kanner wrote that his 1938 encounter with a child from Mississippi,
> identified as Donald T., "made me aware of a behavior pattern not
> known to me or anyone else theretofore." Kanner literally wrote the
> book on "Child Psychiatry," published in 1934.
>
> If Kanner was correct -- if autism was new and increasingly prevalent
> -- something must have happened in the 1930s to trigger those first
> autistic cases. Genetic disorders do not begin suddenly or increase
> dramatically in prevalence in a short period of time.
>
> That is why it is worth looking for autistic Amish -- to test
> reasoning against reality. Largely cut off for hundreds of years from
> American culture and scientific progress, the Amish might have had
> less exposure to some new factor triggering autism in the rest of
> population.
>
> Surprising, but no one seems to have looked.
>
> Of course, the Amish world is insular by nature; finding a small
> subset of Amish is a challenge by definition. Many Amish,
> particularly Old Order, ride horse-and-buggies, eschew electricity,
> do not attend public school, will not pose for pictures and do not
> chat casually with the "English," as they warily call the non-Amish.
>
> Still, some Amish today interact with the outside world in many ways.
> Some drive, use phones, see doctors and send out Christmas cards with
> family photos. They all still refer to themselves as "Plain," but the
> definition of that word varies quite a bit.
>
> So far, from sources inside and outside the Amish community, I have
> identified three Amish residents of Lancaster County who apparently
> have full-syndrome autism, all of them children.
>
> A local woman told me there is one classroom with about 30
> "special-needs" Amish children. In that classroom, there is one
> autistic Amish child.
>
> Another autistic Amish child does not go to school.
>
> The third is that woman's pre-school-age daughter.
>
> If there were more, she said, she would know it.
>
> What I learned about those children is the subject of the next
> column.
>
> = = = = = =
>
> The Age of Autism: Julia
> By Dan Olmsted
> UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
>
> http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050417-052541-5549r.htm
>
> Leola, PA, Apr. 19 (UPI) -- Part 2 of 2. Three-year old Julia is
> napping when I arrive at the spare, neat, cheerful house on Musser
> School Road near the town of Leola in Lancaster County.
>
> She is the reason I have driven through the budding countryside on
> this perfect spring day, but I really do not need to meet her.
>
> In the last column, I wrote about trying to find autistic Amish
> people here in the heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country, and noted
> there should be dozens of them -- if autism occurs at the same
> prevalence as the rest of the United States.
>
> So far, there is evidence of only three, all of them children, the
> oldest age 9 or 10. Julia is one of them. I found out about her
> through a pediatrician in Richmond, Va., Dr. Mary Megson. I had been
> asking around for quite some time about autism and the Amish, and she
> provided the first direct link.
>
> Megson said she would give my name to this child's mother, who could
> call if she chose. A few days later the phone rang. It was
> Stacey-jean Inion, an Amish-Mennonite woman. She, her husband Brent
> and their four children live simply, but they do drive a vehicle and
> have a telephone. After a few pleasantries, I told her about my
> trying to find autistic Amish.
>
> Here is what she said, verbatim:
>
> "Unfortunately our autistic daughter -- who's doing very well, she's
> been diagnosed with very, very severe autism -- is adopted from
> China, and so she would have had all her vaccines in China before we
> got her, and then she had most of her vaccines given to her in the
> United States before we got her.
>
> "So we're probably not the pure case you're looking for."
>
> Maybe not, but it was stunning that Julia Inion, the first autistic
> Amish person I could find, turned out to be adopted -- from another
> country, no less. It also was surprising that Stacey-jean launched
> unbidden into vaccines, because the Amish have a religious exemption
> from vaccination and presumably would not have given it much thought.
>
> She said a minority of Amish families do, in fact, vaccinate their
> children these days, partly at the urging of public health officials.
>
> "Almost every Amish family I know has had somebody from the health
> department knock on our door and try to convince us to get vaccines
> for our children," she said. "The younger Amish more and more are
> getting vaccines. It's a minority of children who vaccinate, but that
> is changing now."
>
> Did she know of any other autistic Amish? Two more children, she
> said.
>
> "One of them, we're very certain it was a vaccine reaction, even
> though the government would not agree with that."
>
> Federal health officials have said there is no association between
> vaccinations and autism or learning disabilities.
>
> "The other one I'm not sure if this child was vaccinated or not," she
> added.
>
> During my visit to their home, I asked Stacey-jean to explain why she
> attributed the first case to vaccines.
>
> "There's one family that we know, their daughter had a vaccine
> reaction and is now autistic. She was walking and functioning and a
> happy bright child, and 24 hours after she had her vaccine, her legs
> went limp and she had a typical high-pitched scream. They called the
> doctor and the doctor said it was fine -- a lot of high-pitched
> screaming goes along with it.
>
> "She completely quit speaking," Stacey-jean said. "She completely
> quit making eye contact with people. She went in her own world."
>
> This happened, Stacey-jean said, at "something like 15 months." The
> child is now about 8.
>
> For similar reasons, Julia Inion's Chinese background is intriguing.
> China, India and Indonesia are among countries moving quickly to
> mass-vaccination programs. In some vaccines, they use a mercury-based
> preservative called thimerosal that keeps multiple-dose vials from
> becoming contaminated by repeated needle sticks.
>
> Thimerosal was phased out of U.S. vaccines starting in 1999, after
> health officials became concerned about the amount of mercury infants
> and children were receiving. The officials said they simply were
> erring on the side of caution, and that all evidence favors rejection
> of any link between Autism Spectrum Disorders and thimerosal, or
> vaccines themselves.
>
> Julia's vaccinations in China -- all given in one day at about age 15
> months -- may well have contained thimerosal; the United States had
> stopped using it by the time she was born, but other countries with
> millions to vaccinate had not.
>
> Stacey-jean said photographs of Julia taken in China before she was
> vaccinated showed a smiling alert child looking squarely at the
> camera. Her original adoptive family in the United States,
> overwhelmed trying to cope with an autistic child, gave Julia up for
> re-adoption. The Inions took her in knowing her diagnosis of severe
> autism.
>
> I tried hard -- and am still trying -- to find people who know about
> other autistic Amish. Of the local health and social service agency
> personnel in Lancaster, some said they dealt with Amish people with
> disabilities, such as mental retardation, but none recalled seeing an
> autistic Amish.
>
> Still, I could be trapped in a feedback loop: The Amish I am
> likeliest to know about -- because they have the most contact with
> the outside world -- also are likeliest to adopt a special-needs
> child such as Julia from outside the community, and likeliest to have
> their children vaccinated.
>
> Another qualifier: The Inions are converts to the Amish-Mennonite
> religion (Brent is an Asian-American). They simply might not know
> about any number of autistic Amish sheltered quietly with their
> families for decades.
>
> It also is possible the isolated Amish gene pool might confer some
> kind of immunity to autism -- which might be a useful topic for
> research.
>
> Whatever the case, Stacey-jean thinks the autistic Amish are nowhere
> to be found.
>
> "It is so much more rare among our people," she said. "My husband
> just said last week that so far we've never met a family that lives a
> healthy lifestyle and does not vaccinate their children that has an
> autistic child. We haven't come across one yet."
>
> "Everywhere I go (outside the Amish community) I find children who
> are autistic, just because I have an autistic daughter -- in the
> grocery store, in the park, wherever I go. In the Amish community, I
> simply don't find that."
>
> UPI researcher Kyle Pearson contributed to this article.
>
> This ongoing series on the roots and rise of autism aims to be
> interactive with readers and welcomes comment, criticism and
> suggestions. E-mail: dolmsted@upi.com
>
> = = = = =
>
> Why Don't the Amish Have Autistic Children?
>
> http://www.mercola.com/2005/may/4/amish_autism.htm
>
> Autism is a difficult disorder to miss, as it is characterized by
> noticeably abnormal or impaired development in social interaction and
> communication and a markedly restricted array of activities and
> interests. And while scientific consensus claims autism has been
> around for millennia at generally the same prevalence, that
> prevalence is now considered to be one in every 166 children born in
> the United States.
>
> Therefore, with this devastating statistic in mind, one reporter set
> out to analyze the autism rates among Amish communities. Why? Because
> perhaps searching for autistic Amish children would reveal clues to
> the cause of autism ... and it did.
>
> The Clues Come Together
>
> Since they have been cut off for hundreds of years from American
> culture and scientific progress, the Amish may have had less exposure
> to some new factor triggering autism in the rest of population. The
> likely culprit: vaccines.
>
> Traveling to the heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country in search of
> autistic Amish children, the reporter, based on national statistics,
> should have found as many as 200 children with autism in the
> community -- instead, he found only three, the oldest age 9 or 10:
>
> * The first autistic Amish child was a girl who had been brought over
> from China, adopted by one family only to be given up after becoming
> overwhelmed by her autism, and then re-adopted by an Amish Mennonite
> family. (China, India and Indonesia are among countries moving fast
> to mass-vaccination programs.)
>
> * The second autistic Amish child definitely had received a
> vaccination and developed autism shortly thereafter.
>
> * The reporter was unable to determine the vaccination status of the
> third child.
>
> Dangerous Effects of Thimerosal
>
> In some vaccines, they use a mercury-based preservative called
> thimerosal that keeps multiple-dose vials from becoming contaminated
> by repeated needle sticks. After health officials became concerned
> about the amount of mercury infants and children were receiving
> through thimerosal-tainted vaccines, the toxin was phased out of U.S.
> vaccines starting in 1999.
>
> However, due to mislabeling and other problems, its presence is still
> being felt, and more and more children are suffering because of it.
>
> Fidyl
> Live Simply So That
> Others May Simply Live



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 07:21:12:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

Hi Walt,

This is a very interesting article and it seems very plausible. Vaccination has been going on since the 19th century (18th for smallpox)

Did they start using the Thimerosal around the time the Autism started appearing?



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 07:31:45:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

I found a class-action suit pending for autistic children.

http://www.yourlawyer.com/

Follow Ups:


Here is the link to the Thimerosal class action

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 07:34:04:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

http://www.yourlawyer.com/practice/overview.htm?topic=Thimerosal

Follow Ups:


Found the answer: yes

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 08:42:48:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 07:21:12:

Thimerosal has been an additive to vaccines since the 1930's.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Steve [2966.1584] on May 08, 2005 at 09:28:52:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

Diet is part of it too..Lots of people ( my age ) have had vaccinations with no problems..But we had a better diet as kids..There was no Mickey'D's when I was a kid..We were not aloud to have soda and candy was rare..Today you have kids born on junk food because their parents were raised on junk food..

Silver Fox!



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 08, 2005 at 10:10:34:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

seems like the logical group to compare Amish to is Mennonites, since they are similar genetically, but the Mennonites are more likely to use modern stuff like vaccines (my son shared a hospital room with a Mennonite teen (bullet lodged in head, inoperable, functioned ok most of the time, but got uncontrollable headaches)-first thing the Mennonite mom did when they moved into the room was turn on the TV (I had been keeping my son entertained by reading to him and with playing with legos).



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 08, 2005 at 10:39:03:

In Reply to: Found the answer: yes posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 08:42:48:

Hi Lissa,

So then... tell me why it is the OB-Gyn's who are being sued when a child is born with such defects?
Sounds like the last one to treat is getting all the blame.

Will the lawyers suddenly leave the OB-Gyns alone and go after
the pharmaceutical and vaccine companies instead?

Ron



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 11:20:57:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 08, 2005 at 10:39:03:

I think most of the brain-damage resulting from forceps or lack of oxygen during birth is not "autism".



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 08, 2005 at 11:34:29:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 08, 2005 at 10:39:03:

nobody is born with autism- that's the point of these articles.

Follow Ups:


Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [2861.81] on May 08, 2005 at 13:08:03:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 11:20:57:


Hi Lissa,

I wonder if the rate of "autism" is decreased with
cesarean section.

Have you heard of any studies on this?



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 08, 2005 at 14:10:22:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [2861.81] on May 08, 2005 at 13:08:03:

It isn't a birth injury, it's a vaccine injury. try www.909shot.com

Follow Ups:


Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 16:57:09:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [2861.81] on May 08, 2005 at 13:08:03:

Hi Ron,
The rate of autism isn't decreased with caesarian. Babies with birth-related brain damage are never even diagnosed with autism.

Primarily autistic children are socially unresponsive, lack facial expression, won't respond to or are indifferent to a affection.

They are seemingly void of emotion. This isn't true of birth-related brain damage. It is totally different.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by kc [802.74] on May 09, 2005 at 06:18:33:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Steve [2966.1584] on May 08, 2005 at 09:28:52:

I agree the SAD diet has a lot to do with today's ills - but not in this case. These kids develop autism in the 1-2 year old range, too early for the SAD diet to do significant damage, and before most kids even eat much of it. Plus, many of these kids appear to develop symptoms virtually overnight, something the diet is not likely to do. On the other hand, kids today are getting MANY more vaccinations than we did as children, even often getting the HepB vaccine on the first day of birth and getting multiple vaccinations in one day later on. Mercury is not the only problem - they also contain formaldehyde. Anyone wanting to know more should go to www.vaclib.com and get Dr. Tenpenney's cd's on the subject.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 09, 2005 at 06:36:57:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 07:21:12:

Thanks, Lissa.

Of course, there was no thiomersol in the small pox vaccine and still isn't. As with nearly ALL toxic substances it takes some time for it to show up in the population. Because this is mostly in kids it would show up much quicker. The syndrome was not even recognized until about 50 years ago and now it is one in every 166 children.

Evolution does not work that fast so this has to be seomthing in the environment (like mercury for example).

I am not sure that this is the major cause but am convinced that is is at least a contributor.

Walt



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 09, 2005 at 06:45:50:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Steve [2966.1584] on May 08, 2005 at 09:28:52:

Thanks, Steve.

No doubt!

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 09, 2005 at 06:47:08:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 09, 2005 at 06:36:57:

besides mercury and formaldahyde in the vaccines, the very fact that they cause an exposure to a virus can result in an allergic reaction.
Parent's Magazine, Feb 2000 had an article on autism, not only reporting parents' observation that it came on after a vaccine reaction, but, also, that their children's symptoms abated when they were put on a wheat-free, dairy-free diet, so this suggests the behavior is a new allergic reaction to foods the kids could handle before.
Vaccine reactions can be due, not only to the inherent nature of the vaccine, but to thenutritional/illness status of the child on the day of vaccination and due to 'hot lots' lots of vaccines that cause more reactions than other lots- hot lots can be an explanation for higher incidence in twins, since those kids are usually accinated same day, same lot of vaccine- instead of the usually genetic explanation for higher incidence in twins of some things that could be vaccine related ( type 1 diabetes has been linked to both DPT and mumps shot)



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 09, 2005 at 06:49:39:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 08, 2005 at 10:10:34:

Thanks, Ann.

Electromagnetis smog is undoubtedly another contributing factor. Removing thiomersol would be a lot easier than convincing parents to avoid the electronic gadgets in the home. Both would be best but.....

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 09, 2005 at 08:20:47:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 09, 2005 at 06:47:08:

Hi Ann,

They put FORMALDEHYDE in vaccines too?



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Tabby [15.1461] on May 09, 2005 at 09:39:25:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by kc [802.74] on May 09, 2005 at 06:18:33:

Wonder if babies born to mothers on SAD are less healthy than babies born to mothers who eat totally healthy? Maybe that would be a way that the SAD would affect small children who haven't yet spent years eating at McD's, etc. (wouldn't they inherit any of mom's nutritional deficiencies?). Also, I agree that the number of vaccinations has got to be a contributing factor, causing a simple overload that the small body can't always handle.

I think the main problem will always be that there isn't any ONE factor involved--that it is a culmination of cascading events (that if you change any one of the things in the chain, then you lessen or increase the liklihood of autism).

Tab



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 09, 2005 at 10:19:43:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Tabby [15.1461] on May 09, 2005 at 09:39:25:

Yes, Tabby they would inherit Mom's deficiencies if she wasn't taking her vitamins. That's why it is so important to take prenatal vitamins.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Steve [3019.1399] on May 09, 2005 at 10:47:23:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 09, 2005 at 10:19:43:

Both of you are right on the money..

Silver Fox!

Follow Ups:


yup

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 09, 2005 at 12:59:13:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 09, 2005 at 08:20:47:

read the ysician's Desk Reference or see www.909shot.com
formaldahyde is a carcinogen.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Vince F [1194.1745] on May 09, 2005 at 13:46:54:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Steve [2966.1584] on May 08, 2005 at 09:28:52:

they also don't have electricity, and maybe the vaccine is defective. Dogs can get Blue Eye after geting shots, that is a clouding of the lenses, that was thought to be an impurity in a vaccine, and or the dog was stressed when they got the shot. I had one who got it so asked a vet when I got shots on one who had been severly malnourshed. I made sure he was bulked up, and comfortable with his new surroundings fist. He got ill, but no other negative signs. Years later when talking about blue eye, and the problem supposedly solved. A breeder old me that a whole litter got it after shots, so they Hadn't solved the problem.



Re: yup

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 09, 2005 at 14:10:03:

In Reply to: yup posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 09, 2005 at 12:59:13:

Thanks Ann. I've read OSHA's formaldehyde requirements for employers. I knew it was a carcinogen but I didn't know they put it in vaccines.

Follow Ups:


Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Steve [3019.1399] on May 09, 2005 at 14:53:17:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Vince F [1194.1745] on May 09, 2005 at 13:46:54:

Yeah, I remember now when there was a problem with dog vaccine being defective..Seems to me that they recalled lots of it..10 or 15 years ago, right? You think its still a problem?

Silver Fox!



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive.

Posted by kc [823.74] on May 09, 2005 at 16:37:39:

In Reply to: Why do the Amish not have autism? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 08, 2005 at 07:03:32:

I recently read a great book - Children With Starving Brains by Dr. Jaquelyn McCandless. She has spent years studying and treating autism after her granddaughter was diagnose with it. Basically, her conclusion is that it is multifactorial, with an emphasis on a high vaccine connection and a leaky gut/immune factor (both autoimmune as in allergies and infections, particularly of the ear). She claims it is unclear which is the chicken and which is the egg, as these conditions create a vicious cycle, and what causes the inital weakness in one child and not another. Bottom line is, after treating the digestive issues and chelating the mercury, she almost always sees improvement, with the most dramatic being in those children who are caught at the earliest ages (around 3). Well worth reading for anyone who is facing this problem.

Follow Ups:


Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 09, 2005 at 21:21:50:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 08, 2005 at 16:57:09:

Hi Lissa,

If I were an OB-Gyn, I would not takea patient wou wanted
a forceps or vaginal delivery. I would not want to risk the lawsuit.

Autism must then be a birth defect or the result of an untreated infection at conception or soon after.

Ron



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 09, 2005 at 23:19:20:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 09, 2005 at 21:21:50:

I would not take a patient wou wanted a forceps or vaginal delivery. I would not want to risk the lawsuit.

Me either, if I were a conventional doc. Malpractice lawsuits are brought based on what is sanctioned by the AMA as "medically accepted practice" (as is caesarian). Not on what is medically most effective. (Not always the same thing)

Don't know about the rest of your logic.



Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet..

Posted by Vince F [1194.1745] on May 10, 2005 at 00:38:12:

In Reply to: Re: Why do the Amish not have autism? Better diet.. posted by Steve [3019.1399] on May 09, 2005 at 14:53:17:

Mine had the problem 35yrs ago, and I was told about 10 yrs ago that the litter had the same problem, after a vet told me it was solved. Haven't heard anything since. A search might bring some info.

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Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [1013.1989] on May 10, 2005 at 03:46:15:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 09, 2005 at 23:19:20:

Hi Jan,

Here is a little info on vaccinations and mercury that may surprise you



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 10, 2005 at 06:26:09:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [1013.1989] on May 10, 2005 at 03:46:15:

Hi Ron.... Actually I was butting in on the lawsuit issue, only. I will need to be more careful how I word things! I meant to say "I'M NOT SURE about the rest of your logic" instead of "I DON'T KNOW about the rest of your logic". Because I really am not sure.

--

You said this article might surprise me. Differing views don't surprise me one bit! That's what the big question mark is all about, here. I respect attempts to put numbers for both sides out there. I think it's very much up in the air.

There are also data for a positive mercury/autism link. Have you studied the support for a positive association? (I haven't, not as in depth as I would like.)



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 10, 2005 at 15:54:05:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 09, 2005 at 21:21:50:

Hi Ron,

I've known plenty of people with birth or pre-natal brain damage and none of them were autistic.

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Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Bliss [3725.1399] on May 10, 2005 at 21:53:33:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 09, 2005 at 21:21:50:

"If I were an OB-Gyn, I would not takea patient wou wanted
a forceps or vaginal delivery."

And that's why I wouldn't choose you as my OB-Gyn! ;-)



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 11, 2005 at 07:00:37:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Bliss [3725.1399] on May 10, 2005 at 21:53:33:

Hi Bliss,

If all doctors thought that way, we'd be in a lot of trouble wouldn't we. Doesn't Ron know that ALL women want a vaginal delivery?

There may be a few who want C-section but I can't imagine it.



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by bliss [3725.1399] on May 11, 2005 at 20:15:15:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 11, 2005 at 07:00:37:

I think that's part of the reason why C-sections are so high these days. More and more obs find it much easier and less chance of being sued if complications arise.

There was an article just recently in the newspaper, saying that vaginal births were going to become almost non existent, the way the rise in C-sections was occurrring so frequently.



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 13, 2005 at 11:46:22:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by bliss [3725.1399] on May 11, 2005 at 20:15:15:


Thanks Blissy

I am vindicated...

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Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 13, 2005 at 11:50:06:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 10, 2005 at 06:26:09:

Hi Jan,

On this one I am just like a Kerry Liberal..
My mind is made up and will need to be convinced otherwise.



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Jan S. [3524.81] on May 14, 2005 at 00:31:17:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Ron [205.1989] on May 13, 2005 at 11:50:06:

My mind is made up and will need to be convinced otherwise.

Then it's clear what you must do: only read things you know you'll agree with.



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 14, 2005 at 09:50:22:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Jan S. [3524.81] on May 14, 2005 at 00:31:17:

Ron, on further thought about the article you linked, more than anything about the mercury actually, I didn't care for Dr. Mirkin's editorializing in it. If I were webmaster over there, I'd do a major snippage....

MERCURY IN VACCINES DOES NOT CAUSE AUTISM

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

Do you believe that mercury in childhood vaccines causes autism? Or that mercury in dental filings causes chronic fatigue syndrome? Or that yeast infections cause fibromyalgia? The vast majority of doctors do not believe that any of these associations exist. All too often, a doctor or other authority comes up with a theory, and actually believes what he proposes, and without any research, support or testing, scares the public by reporting his or her theory.

A study in Pediatrics shows that autism rates in Denmark are not linked to thimerosal ....

No practitioner *I* know of, either, would assert that these associations exist in such a simplistic way. In the holistic world, labels such as "chronic fatigue syndrome" and "fibromyalgia" denote conditions whose origins are multi-factorial and highly individual in their resolution.

It isn't necessary that we have a "one riot, one ranger" model for all illness, it isn't necessary that the presence of a symptom cluster always and inevitably points to an identical cause in every human being. So for him to criticize on that basis -- the basis of having the "wrong cause" -- is itself wrong. It's the wrong model altogether.

Also I think he is trying to "make" the vaccine/autism issue "look silly" by criticizing in this way, and it just looks like sloppy thinking (or ignorance) on his part. Better let the data stand on its own....



Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change)

Posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 14, 2005 at 10:18:26:

In Reply to: Re: Found the answer: yes (Lawyers will have to change) posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on May 14, 2005 at 09:50:22:

He is trying to make it look like the idea has no support whatsoever when it has... (by trying to lump it with the other ideas that have no support [supposedly]). But it is not necessary that the association be there in every study nor that it be for every child. What *would* be bad science would be hearing about certain possible associations, and then according them no weight at all. (But we all know that our good scientists, doctors, and bureaucrats would *never* do that...)

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