O.K., O.K., I've gone to the archives, read every current post, and I still can't find out the answer to my questions about (that overworked topic) Baker's Cyst.
Just what symptoms does it cause? People talk about no pain or calf pain. Can it cause sharp pains when walking? Can it make you unable to bend your knee sometimes but not at other times? Can it make you walk as though you are crippled most of the time? Can it be better one day and a whole lot worse the next day?
Also, do you need an MRI to see it completely and find its location? If you eventually need surgery, how do they get it out if it is going down your calf as well as up your thigh? Do they have to cut your whole leg open?
If anyone has had experience with one of these cysts, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Thanks!
Follow Ups:
Re: I've done my homework, Dr. Stoll
Posted by Denise Wyrick on January 31, 1999 at 11:37:26:
In Reply to: I've done my homework, Dr. Stoll posted by Susan on January 31, 1999 at 11:07:26:
Hi Susan, I'm not the doctor... but I can share with you something that was helpful to me. I was diagnosed with a baker's cyst about 12 years ago. I saw one doc who immediately wanted to use the knife, I opted for a second opinion. This orthopedic surgeon told me to not let anyone ever talk to me about removing the baker's cyst. I followed the advice of the 2nd opinion. It has been a long and winding path and I have had other seemingly unrelated symptoms but following the wellness advice of Dr. Stoll and this BB has helped to put it all together for me. Granted I have a way to go yet, but the advice here seems to be very sound.
Best of luck in your search,
Denise
PS: my baker's cyst was detected with a simple x-ray btw
Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 01, 1999 at 11:26:40:
In Reply to: I've done my homework, Dr. Stoll posted by Susan on January 31, 1999 at 11:07:26:
A Baker's Cyst is simply a hernia of the synovial sac that encloses the knee joint. ALL joints have synovial sacs for the lubrication of that joint. Chronic "bracing" causes a tremendous increase in the pressure inside any joint. However, since the knee joint is so large, and we put all our weight on it each step we make, this is the joint where this pressure causes the fluid to form a hernia the most commonly: a "Baker's Cyst".
This is one of the more important reasons I say that Baker's is related to the same causes that form an arthritic tendency.
When any muscle contracts, the opposing muscle for that joint is supposed to relax completely by reflex action. If it does not (the definition of "bracing": when all muscles stay contracted to a certain extent 24 hours a day, even when asleep) the muscles work against each other and grind the joint surfaces togther harder than normal and aggavate the wear & tear of the joint surfaces AT THE SAME TIME THE PRESSURE IN THE SYNOVIAL FLUID IS GREATLY INCREASED.
Surely, by now, the reader can begin to understand why this causes Baker's Cysts.
The symptoms of a Baker's is directly related to where the hernia happens. Nearly all of these occur on the back of the knee BECAUSE that is where the protecting tissues are the thinnest (the same as ALL joints: the tissue inside the joint is thinnest since less protection is needed there).
Of course, that is also where all the major nerves, blood vessels, ligaments and tendons are as well and for the same reason. If this is confusing, look at an anatomy atlas. When the bulge presses on something, one gets pain from that structure. That is why symptoms can go "down the leg", etc.
Remember, when one has severe leg or foot pain from a herniated disc, the surgery is on the back not on the leg or foot.
The only thing yet known that will reduce the pressure inside the joint is getting rid of the bracing and the only thing yet known that will do that is the regular practice of skilled relaxation for 6-12 months. Once the cyst is already there, the SR will not get rid of it any more than an inguinal hernia can be repaired by SR. It has to be surgically removed and the SR will help prevent the next one.
The surgical approach to a Baker's Cyst is right where it is coming out of the ruptured sac. That is why the approach is from the rear. A surgeon would have to have a VERY good reason for entering the knee joint for a Baker's Cyst. The idea is to remove the cyst without breaking it and then suturing up the weakened part of the sac that allowed the bulging tissue.
This should be a pretty simple surgery. If the cyst is pressing on a nerve, etc, it can just be peeled off.
Write with more questions. Share your new understanding with your surgeon. S/he should be impressed & honor you for it!
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Terry on February 16, 1999 at 00:20:53:
In Reply to: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Walt Stoll on February 01, 1999 at 11:26:40:
THANK YOU, Dr. Stoll for the summary. It was very imformative. As for my costochondritis, I got on that totaol gym after 2 years of sitting at the pc with NO exercixe. I started a business from home and lived in front of the pc day and nite, plus HAD a bad habit of sitting on my left foot/leg. Could this repetitive sitting cause my knee problems? When I got on the gym, messin around, and proceeded to do 10+ situps and no warm up, or exercise of any kind caused me to pull cartilage on my ribs. This is much better, I also suffer from potural strain. This has been a wake up call for me. Is it ok to exercise with the bakers cyst? Like stretching, aerobics, thigh, leg, butt exercises? I told my dr. that I am having pain at the base of my calf, he says the cyst could be enlarging and putting pressure on my leg. Can this put pressure on a nerve in the leg also? Is it ok to wrap it in an ace bandage? Do you think I will eventually need surgery? Can they use a local for this? Thank you, and I wont bother you again. Terry
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Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 17, 1999 at 08:58:14:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Terry on February 16, 1999 at 00:20:53:
Dear Terry,
Your questions are not a "bother". All I ask is that people try their best to help me avoid retyping stuff that is already available on the BB.
First, your thinking is still contaminated by the allopathic paradigm's narrow view of how things work that has been promoted by the AMA for the past 100 years (for its financial and power purposes).
All of the things you have listed as "causes?" of conditions are likely "precipitating factors" that only could have been "the straw that broke the camel's back" IF many other factors had already caused the reserves of that system (ribs, knees, etc.) to be right at the edge of tolerance and so the additional stressor was enough to exceed the tolerance of the system.
These thngs are just like ALL other chronic conditions: they accumulate causes for years and finally "break". Coronaries occur suddenly but their causes accumulate for at least 40 years before the system finally "breaks" and the person experiences a coronary.
I could spend all day, here, giving you other examples but I am hoping that you get the point without them.
This means that you can eliminate the problem without using a time machine to go back & avoid the "straw".
Your problem is REALLY total body bracing and all of your conditions are messages to you bodymind that you need to discharge that bracing. If you do not "hear" those messages, your bodymind has no option but to send you a louder message.
IF your cyst is pressing on a nerve, it will cause pain & disability distal to that point. Using an ace bandage will just make the pressure worse. You will probably need surgery and your symptoms will get better. Personally, I would accept nothing BUT a local for this condition. However, if that is ALL you do, you will eventually get arthritis and/or more cysts. More money for the docs but not so good for you.
To break the slavery of the paradigm, you would profit by reading my book and follow up anything you do not understand from it by going to the specific references in the back.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.)
Posted by Terry on February 17, 1999 at 17:02:27:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.) posted by Walt Stoll on February 17, 1999 at 08:58:14:
A BIG thank you, Dr. Stoll for youranswer to my email. I do understand fully as to what you stated. And if I do need surgery, a LOCAL will be the only thing I'll take. Is there a lot of pain after, and is the procedure long? You are right about the ace bandage it does make it worse. It's weird that during the day, I hardly have pain, as soon as I lie down for bed the pain comes, any idea why this would occur? I am VERY interested in your book, how and where can I get it? Thank you for your help. Terry
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Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 18, 1999 at 11:03:58:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.) posted by Terry on February 17, 1999 at 17:02:27:
Dear Terry,
See the link on this page for how to get my book.
The post operative pain is minimal. You will probably have less pain immediately post op (after the local wears off)than you had before the surgery.
Part of the daytime/nighttime question is that even if you had a thumb screw tightened down hard, if the SABRETOOTH TIGRE came at you, you would probably not feel the thumbscrew again until you were at the top of the tree.
Walt
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Virginia on March 22, 1999 at 19:05:23:
In Reply to: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Walt Stoll on February 01, 1999 at 11:26:40:
I have been looking for information on Baker's Cyst. I also would like to know if they always show up on X-Rays, I will be seeing an orthodpedic surgeon next week and wanted to look up as much information as possible before my appt. I had a bakers cyst when I was 12 behind my left knee. I am now experiencing pain behind my right knee. One thing I'm not happy to hear is that even if removed or surgical cared for it can still come back. What is the best course of action if this is what I have. My leg is really sore and the pain in moving to my lower calve. Would appreciate anyone's comments on this issue. I also started having problems with arthritis in the past year and I've been told cyst can be related to this. I have pain in my hips which started all of a sudden , that I found unusual.
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Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.)
Posted by Jackie on March 22, 1999 at 22:26:37:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.) posted by Walt Stoll on February 17, 1999 at 08:58:14:
My 8 year old son has recently been diagnosed with a bakers cyst in his right knee- we go this week to find out what the doctor wants to do- My son complains on and off that his knee hurts- is this normal for this young of a child to have and also what can I do to help orevent this from happening again- It is my understanding at this time that they will scope his knee to remove this- thanks a very concerned mom.
Follow Ups:
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Walt Stoll on March 23, 1999 at 17:51:42:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Virginia on March 22, 1999 at 19:05:23:
Hi, Virginia.
If you really want to know all that you need to know about your condition, you need to spend the few hours it will take for you to read everything you can find on this BB and go to the archives for more if you need more.
THEN, if you have more questions, write again.
The answers to all of your questions have been on this BB for a long time. A few hours of your time is a very small price to pay to protect yourself.
Walt
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on March 23, 1999 at 18:08:29:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Trapped by the allopathic paradigm.) posted by Jackie on March 22, 1999 at 22:26:37:
Hi, Jackie.
This is NOT at all usual for a child. Years ago a case found in a child would have been written up in all the journals as a very rare case. Now it is getting more common every year. Why do you think THAT is?
I just responded to a similar question this week and you need to get that to save me typing it again.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Alex Blake on March 25, 1999 at 17:46:16:
I recently (two weeks ago) had a popliteal cyst removed from my knee. I belive the cyst was actually on the inside of my knee and went down my shin (sorry I don't know the proper medical terms). I have a three inch incision on the inside of my knee. The cyst was originally diagnosed as a meniscal cyst but the doctor obviously found the case to be otherwise when he went in with the scope.
Now to the real part of my question. I am about to enter the Marine Corps' Officer Candidates School and am very concerned about the long term implications of my surgery (i.e. chances for re-occurance, etc.) escpecially since I will be going through some very intense physical training over the course of the next several years. Will the synovial sac always be weak at the site of the original cyst and are the chances of another cyst forming at some other site increased considering that I have already had one form. Also, what are the implications for arthritis and other long term knee problems? The Marine Corps was not too concerned about the meniscal cyst (they normally require a full year after surgery before a candidate can enter OCS) but I am now very concerned that they will not be so willing to accept me now that I have had a more extensive surgery. What I am wondering is, from a medical standpoint, is there any major difference between a meniscal and synovial or popliteal cyst? I would certainly appreciate any input on my concerns/questions especially since my doctor has not done a very good job of addressing my concerns. Thanks for your time.
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Re: Baker's Cyst Summary (Diagnosis??)
Posted by Walt Stoll on March 27, 1999 at 09:39:30:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Alex Blake on March 25, 1999 at 17:46:16:
Hi, Alex.
One of the reasons surgeons make so much money (average of $500,000.00/year for orthopedic surgeons) is that they are supposed to take the time to explain stuff like this to the patient as part of the surgical service. THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO JUST TAKE THE MONEY & RUN! Physicians who are just technicians will try to get away with doing that and, IF YOU LET THEM, they will do just that.
You have to confront the doc, get a precise diagnosis, AND refuse to leave the office until he satisfies your questions. You should have a copy of the operative report and pathology report in your files at home! Do not accept an additional fee for this since it is a part of the surgery that he should have done already.
THEN, if you want an alternative view of what you have, post exactly what it was and what you have learned from the surgeon. Your surgeon KNOWS the answers to your questions. You should not have to drag it out of him. Likely he is not used to patients insisting on their rights. I will do my best to help if I can.
Walt
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by marilyn brewer on April 06, 1999 at 22:11:25:
In Reply to: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by Walt Stoll on February 01, 1999 at 11:26:40:
About 1 year ago, I had knee pain that did not go away.So I went to my Doc,. He sent me for a x-ray he said to rule out arthritius. When I
called for the results, the reply was there was none. It took nearly
a year now for it to be pain free. Sence then we retired and got an new health insurance. But when they got the copys of the records
from the Doc. they put a waiver on my left knee because the records said I had a Bakers cyst. Something I had never heard of
or was ever told I had. What do you think is up here? If I did have
that could it have just have went away like it did? Or is it more likley
that my Doc. needed more money? What do you suggust that I might do to prove him wrong and get this waiver removed from my records?
Thank You
Follow Ups:
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Walt Stoll on April 07, 1999 at 17:11:30:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by marilyn brewer on April 06, 1999 at 22:11:25:
Hi, Marilyn.
This is just another reason why I continue to urge people to have an up to date record of their medical files at home!
At this stage the doc is probably goig to get away with this. Perhaps this experience will convince you to get a copy of your record at least within a few days after any ofice visit, surgical procedure, laboratory test, xray, etc. ANY doctor who will not make it easy for you to do this should never see you again.
Walt
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by pat abbott on April 09, 1999 at 17:32:39:
Since last July I have seen 2 orthopeadic drs. , and they
can't seen to give me accurate dx. I have puffiness below
on my left knee and now in the last 2 days feels like a tight band across my knee in the back , and some numbness
above and below the knee, sounds like a Bakers' Cyst. I've
read your summary which is most informative, do you have
any suggestion on how to home treat this most anoying problem without resorting to surgery ? Thankyou
Follow Ups:
Re: Baker's Cyst Summary
Posted by Walt Stoll on April 10, 1999 at 12:25:15:
In Reply to: Re: Baker's Cyst Summary posted by pat abbott on April 09, 1999 at 17:32:39:
Dear Pat,
No.
Once the hernia of the synovial sac allows the cyst to form, the mechanics of the joint prevent resolution with other than removing the sac & sewing up the rupture.
Walt