Hi Walt,
It's looking like a deficiency of ionic calcium (and other alkalizing minerals) is at the root of candida, juvenile diabetes, etc., etc. Without these minerals acidosis ensues and degenerative disease develops. Years ago I read in N.W. Walker books that cooking calcium-containing foods renders the calcium "inorganic" and that this clogs up the organs, joints, etc. He advocated foods high in organic sodium like celery and zucchini to help remove the pile-up of inorganic calcium. How true this is I don't know.
I was looking at the material on Nancy Appleton's calcium testing kit (http://www.nancyappleton.com) and started researching and experimenting with calcium. In the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine (Murray and Pizzorno) I found out that low stomach acid (a sign of adrenal exhaustion I understand) requires calcium in a soluble and ionized state such as calcium lactate, citrate, and gluconate. If minerals are not in ionic form they will pass through the body unassimilated.
Some things that impair calcium absorption are high amounts of sugars, sulphur (be sure and get enough calcium with MSM?), hypoparathyroidism, and phosphorous. I once noted that milk and wheat are high in phosphorous, also sodas, some meats, etc. The superior form of Vit. D from the sun plus ultraviolet exposure enhance the absorption of calcium.
It is best to take calcium several times a day and not in tablet form. Some people advocate herbal calcium or coral calcium. Right now I'm using chewable calcium citrate with magnesium and vitamin D with my diabetic daughter. Her blood sugar is lower than usual. Mary J.
In Reply to: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Mary Jackson on June 12, 1998 at 05:49:53:
That's the question I'm thinking of at the moment. Since calcium is an electrolyte what are the ramifications of putting a bunch of it in the body? What would be the proper sequence of alleviating imbalances, repairing effects of imbalances on body organs, etc.? Mary J.
In Reply to: How to Achieve Biobalance? posted by Mary Jackson on June 12, 1998 at 09:42:32:
Certain nutrients are required by the body. It isn't a matter of X of this
vitamin and Y of that mineral. It is a matter of X of this vitamin in relation
to Y of that mineral.
The different vitmins, minerals, trace compounds, etc, exist in ratio to each other in
order to run the body so that certain tasks can be performed with a minimum of lost energy
and of course, maximum benefit to all the systems involved.
AS well there is protection from or elimnation from body stressors, which put a strain on
a body not in homeostatsis to begin with.
These might include electromagnetic pollution (i.e. radiation from television,
computer equipment, stereo in car and home, lighting (especially artificial
{saw your post on "malillumination"}, poor electrical wiring practices, and proximity
to high power lines).
In addition, there are issues with "building sickness" at your place of employ, the quality of the water you drink,
the amount of sugar you ingest,
the quality of the food you you eat, and how well your elimination system is running.
This is admittedly a lot to consider. Take it one step at a time. You are on the cutting edge
already. Compared to the netless, you have at your disposal a huge library, peopled with
folks who know just what you need to achieve wellness.
Of course, it's still up to you to apply it.
Getting back to the topic at hand -the "proper" (it will vary some according to your
biochemistry) ratios will bring your body back into biobalance the same way a grand piano is tuned!
-Greg
(PS As to how? Ask Walt. He could tell you exactly what ratio of what to what is needed and why...)
In Reply to: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Mary Jackson on June 12, 1998 at 05:49:53:
I don't have any experience with the gut/intestine/stomach absorbability af the various forms of calcium(or magnesium for that matter, they do have almost identical chemistries though, something I do have lots of experience with). The biochemically important insoluble 'salts' of calcium i.e. phosphate, sulfate and carbonate are so insoluble that they are probably not solvated even by stomach acid. I suspect this because I have done many chromatographies with hydroxyapatite(a form of calcium phosphate with good flow properties) to purify proteins and DNA and, it is quite insoluble in many acids. The only things that I have seen dissolve it, is a strong chelator like EDTA or possibly citric acid, also a known chelator. What this suggests then is that mixing a supplement source of ionic calcium/magnesium with a known source of ionic phosphate/sulfate/carbonate ought to render much of the cationic minerals insoluble and non-bioavaliable. What it also suggests is that the naturally chelated forms of these minerals found in foods is possibly natures' way of keeping them from being combined with the troublesome cations mentioned above, so they will be more bioavailable.
By the way, I have seen bonemeal recommended as a supplement, probably as a source of calcium and magnesium. If it is true that the insoluble salts of these two minerals are not absorbed, then this would not be a good way to get this mineral nutrition. If anyone out there has other knowledge, i.e. hands on experience with this, maybe they could set the record straight here.
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 12, 1998 at 16:41:29:
Ron Hoggan who is at the U. of Calgary told me that endomesial antibodies attack the parathyroid gland in celiac disease (apparently the "tip of the iceberg" of gluten allergy). Increased gastrointestinal permeability is also a symptom. Some possible causes of gluten problems could be low pancreatic enzymes or parasitic infestation. It's really hard to tell which came first with a lot of these things, but it looks like I won't be consuming gluten. Mary J.
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 12, 1998 at 16:41:29:
Hi Tim,
Thanks for your comments. Here is a page that describes the properties of some calciums, etc.: http://daily-mfg.com/products/minerals.html
(in case anyone is interested) I think Walt has recommended the hydroxyapatite type before. I am wondering about the electrical matrices of rock type vs. plant derived calcium and how the body accepts these. I have been doing much better with the calcium supplement, but have more experimenting to do. Mary J.
In Reply to: Re: How to Achieve Biobalance? Ratios! posted by Greg on June 12, 1998 at 15:08:55:
Hi Greg,
I wrote you a message down below. I know what you mean about "building sickness". I have lived in two new or nearly new houses, and they probably have done a real number on my limbic system. Mary J.
In Reply to: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Mary Jackson on June 12, 1998 at 05:49:53:
Dear Mary,
This may well be ANOTHER piece of the picture. I very seriously doubt that it is the cause.
I would like to mention what you said about adrenal stress & low acid in the stomach. They are not cause & effect but are both caused by the hypothalamus ALWAYS being in the fight or flight mode. Since they both have the same basic cause, many people assume that they are cause & effect. This is pretty superficial thinking but is still a lot better than the conventional medical paradigm which considers them totally unrelated.
Just trying to keep you honest (grin).
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 12, 1998 at 16:41:29:
tim
Could you simplifiy what you wrote for the 'scientifically challenged'? Are you saying that hydroxappatite is *not* the best form of calcium to take? And bonemeal is? I'm confused. Thanks for sharing.
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Walt Stoll on June 14, 1998 at 09:01:11:
Hi Walt,
What I think could be happening with the juvenile diabetes (and other health problems that people have) is that the nervous systems are in a state that doesn't facilitate healing and could be aided and soothed by the absorbable calcium. The calcium was something that I lacked--my posture is starting to lengthen out and I'm starting to walk with better carriage. I'm calmer. I think Susannah's diabetes is the end result of the prenatal effects of my supposed familial gluten enteropathy and maldigestion. But enough on that--I'm onto experimenting with calcium. Mary
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Nancy on June 14, 1998 at 13:13:02:
Nancy, the calcium phosphate in bone is a form of hydroxyapatite. There are various forms of hydroxyapatite that are dintinguishable by x-ray crystallography, but all of them, including that of bone, have one thing in common, they are all equally and highly insoluble. That includes any concentration of hydrochloric acid, the type in stomach acid. This is what I'm sure of. What I don't know is, are insoluble substances like CaPO4 supposed to get across the intestinal wall? I strongly suspect not, at least in this case, because then it would be in the blood, and hydroxyapatite is a potent accumulator of and activator of the clotting proteins of blood, causing massive systemic activation of clotting.
I hope this helps. If anyone out there knows to the contrary, I hope they will contribute.
In Reply to: Looks Like Gluten and Stress Don't Mix posted by Mary Jackson on June 13, 1998 at 05:39:21:
Dear Mary,
Your title may well be true in this country. However, in China & India, it is rice protein (instead of gluten) and in Scandinavia it is dairy protein (instead of gluten). Understanding why THIS is will go a long way to a deeper understanding of what is going on.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Looks Like Gluten and Stress Don't Mix posted by Walt Stoll on June 15, 1998 at 10:38:39:
Hi,
I looked up the peptides in your book (pp. 74-74). I have to take a biochemical approach (a simple nutritional approach based on absorption), because it's the kids who are victims of their mothers' leaky guts that I am greatly concerning myself with. Mind/body medicine is not going to work well with a 2 yr. old diabetic child in Russia. Still have a lot to get worked out in my head along these lines.
Mary
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 14, 1998 at 23:21:46:
tim
What is CaPO4? I'm interested in hearing your opinion on what is the best form of calcium to take, when, with what or not with what, and on whether or not you think calappetite is helpful or harmful? Walt and my chiropractor both recommended the calappetite in good faith, based on their knowledge and current research, but am I hearing you say that you disagree with their opinions, which is fine, if that's what you're saying. My naturopath did not think I should be taking any calcium supplements because my hair analysis test showed that I had too much calcium in my blood, hair, and muscle (probably). His theory is that that is what causes fibromyalgia.
Thanks again.
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 14, 1998 at 23:21:46:
Dear Tim,
I am not a chemist. However, I do consider myself a student of clinical medicine and the healing arts.
Hydroxyapatite (properly prepared) is the only substance (world-wide) that has been shown (so far) to not only prevent osteoporosis but reverse it. Apparently it is doing something.
If you want to look at the research call "technical support" at (800) 692-9400. If they give you any guff, ask to speak to Jim Shaddle (President) at Metagenics Midwest. Tell them I suggested you call and please share with the rest of us what you learn.
I am looking forward to ANYTHING that will do as well as this hydroxyapatite.
Thanks, Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Mary Jackson on June 14, 1998 at 20:44:09:
Dear Mary,
THAT makes some more sense to me.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Walt Stoll on June 14, 1998 at 09:01:11:
Hi Walt,
I kind of qualified what I said above (I wasn't even sure at the time what I had originally meant), but I think I was on the right track initially. This site (don't know how to create a link--I'm just cutting and pasting the URL) delineates what I was attempting to get at: http://www.positivehealth.com/bakissue/ph.htm
There was also a viral component due to my toxic condition when probably figured into producing a diabetic child. Also, the vagus nerve that is involved with the hydrochloric acid production can supposedly be adversely affected by mercury amalgam--methyl mercury I think. (I don't have a source on this at the moment.) Susannah's urinary and salivary pH values are too low and need buffering. Besides upping alkalyzing electrolytes and enzymes I think maybe MSM would be of value. I gave it to Susie once with some other pills and she threw it all up, but I will probably see if she holds down one MSM tablet. I started taking a couple of tablets of it once a day at least, and my scars started to heal up. There is fibrotic tissue involved in j.d. according to my doctor (one of the people that drove me to the Internet).
I was telling my friend Anne about my calcium experiments, and she told me about getting her hip x-rayed (she had a congenital hip defect and ultimately got her hip replaced).
Her stomach showed a pile-up of undigested calcium tablets (must have been carbonate).
An important statement on this site that I mentioned by Peter Bartlett is: "Diets which are high in protein, fat, and simple carbohydrates and low in complex carbohydrates and raw food, stress the digestive mechanisms, inhibiting proper digestion and overloading the immune system with incompletely digested macromolecules and toxins."
I would like to know what the situation is with the calciums found in foods with relation to low stomach acid. As a person who is aging (I'm almost 50) I probably have the stomach acid reduction mentioned in the article in addition to my stress level and sympathetic overdrive. I think the calcium goes a long way to ameliorate this. Mary J.
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Nancy on June 16, 1998 at 10:57:09:
Dear Nancy,
Please stop to think WHY you may have too much calcium in everything BUT your bones.
High "metastatic" calcium could aggravate fibromyalgia. NO WAY does it cause it.
The causes of fibromyalgia are well known and have been discussed many times on this BB over the past few years.
Unfortunately, they ALL require DOING something and not TAKING something. We ALL would like to find something we could take so we wouldn't have to do anything. I hope that ANYONE who discovers something like that will share it with me.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Walt Stoll on June 16, 1998 at 13:05:52:
to: Walt, Nancy, Mary Jackson et.al.,
At your suggestion, I talked to someone at Metagenics technical support about this issue of the digestibility of CaPO4/hydroxyapatite/bone. This person told me that the reason that their product(from I could tell it is a finely ground bone in tablet form)is superior, is that it "disperses" rapidly upon reaching the stomach, in about nine minutes. They do Q.A. testing to confirm this in a hydrochloride solution simulating the conditions of the stomach. When I asked this person to clarify if disperse meant the same thing as dissolve, I was referred to a resident biochemist who has been playing phone tag with me so we haven't had a chance to talk yet.
In the mean time, I did medline searches and its' pretty clear that insoluble salts of calcium and magnesium like hydroxyapatite are not digested. I'll gladly give references if anyone out there is interested. As a matter of fact oral CaPO4 is used therapeutically in the digestive tract to absorb ingested toxic substances and prevent them from being intestinally absorbed! Actually the picture is just slightly more complicated than this: it is possible to absorb calcium out of CaPO4, and the way to do so would be to have it ground as finely as possible(which Metagenics does), and take it with a source of preferably citrate(which becomes citric acid in the stomach), malate or other known chelators. In this way chelation, and therefore dissolution of calcium is maximized, and so then is absorption. Even though it is maximized, I suspect that it would be only a small % of the oral dose. Better to take soluble calcium if, in fact, it is the calcium that is correcting the osteoporosis.
In Reply to: V.I.P. Site on Digestion and pH posted by Mary Jackson on June 17, 1998 at 04:12:37:
Hi Walt,
It looks to me as though bromelain will be useful with these protein maldigestion problems. I already have phytoenzymes, but decided to get some of this too. Someone on the Candida Forum BB mentioned using bromelain for constipation and bloating, so I started looking into it. It started looking good being that it is mucolytic, etc. Mary J.
P.S. Greg--I hope you conquer the big D (you too Walt). I know what it's like to eat with people who don't have dietary discriminations. The only thing I ate at a barbecue the other day was potato salad, and some people would have avoided that. (I had to bum a banana later when hunger set in.) I bowed out of a breakfast invitation the next day. I hope you find some high energy health conscious types to hang out with!
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Nancy on June 16, 1998 at 10:57:09:
Nancy, CaPO4 is calcium phosphate, an insoluble substance that is approximately 50% of bone. Depending on the proportions of the two at the time of mixing and other factors like pH, when one mixes soluble calcium and soluble phosphate, one can get a very specific kind of fairly porous precipitate, just like that of bone, called apatite.
CaPO4 has the very interesting property of binding tightly, and in a specific way, certain proteins, DNA, and probably other biological substances. These substances can be removed from the CaPO4 only by dissolving the precipitate in a strong chelator or in the presence of phosphate or sulfate ions. It is known that bone has other mineral ions in it, like magnesium, iron, selenium etc, as well as proteins. I don't know what calapatite is that you mentioned in your post, but if it is ground up bone, and if you are being helped by it, it could be the calcium, magnesium, etc., or some combination of any of the things in it. I also don't know enough about fibromyalgia to recommend for or against calcium, but much of the "common" wisdom I've seen suggests magnesium deficiency. My bias is to take soluble magnesium i.e. magnesium citrate or malate or the like, along with the same calcium chelate simultaneously with vitamin D which is known to enhance the intestinal absorption of magnesium, if taken at the same time. Don't expect immediate results. I've recently seen also that something in flax, probably the omega 3 fatty acid, also increases intestinal absorption of magnesium. Hope this helps.
Also see my most recent post.
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 18, 1998 at 19:41:35:
Dear Tim,
Thanks for your research efforts and sharing them with us.
Please, while you are at it, ask for the substantiating research that documents that the hydroxyapatite is the only product yet shown to actually reverse osteoporosis.
I REALLY would like to be educated about this. Either I have been giving false advice for years or there is some reason why this works that is not explained by what you are reporting.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 18, 1998 at 19:41:35:
tim
Thanks for all your research. There is nothing more aggravating than playing phone tag, is there? I hope you will share what the biochemist tells you when you finally catch up to him/her. This is all very interesting. Wonder how the hydroxappatite is reversing osteoporosis? Or is it?
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by tim on June 19, 1998 at 00:04:12:
tim
Thanks. I have recently begun taking flax seed oil again. I take a multiple with vit.D (400IU) once a day,and 10 mg acid chelate magnesium, with the first dose of Cal Apetite, but then I take two more of the Cal. for lunch & dinner. Perhaps I should get some plain vit.D to take with the Cal the other two times. I used to take Citrical with D because I had read that the D was necessary for assimilation. This is all so overwhelming. Talk about expensive urine, huh?
I know better than to expect immediate results. Everything is so gradual, sometimes I don't even realize I'm improving till it just dawns on me one day that I don't have this or that symptom any more. Trouble is, I seldom know just what did it because I'm doing so many things. I've come to the conclusion (right or wrong) that all these things are working together.
Nancy
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Walt Stoll on June 18, 1998 at 09:31:06:
Walt
Would you mind answering that question that you asked me about why I have too much calcium in everything but my bones? I've missed something, I guess. My naturopath could have meant that it aggravated FMS, rather than causing it. I don't go to him any more for various reasons. Strangely enough, though, since following some of your recommendations over the past few months, I no longer have the FMS symptoms. I consider myself healed of that or at least in remission. (And that's without checking the relaxations with biofeedback, which I fear would indicate that I'm not getting into the theta waves. I've orderd the guided relaxation tapes that I recently read about on your BB, though, and after I try them out, I'm going to go in for the bio)
Back to the calcium issue, I had a osteoporosis test in the fall and will repeat that next fall for comparison. If I show improvement, I will feel that it is attributable to the Cal Apetite I've been taking. Unless whole foods, relaxation, and elimination of white junk can heal osteoporos?.
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Nancy on June 22, 1998 at 15:37:57:
Dear Nancy,
ALL of those things, together, help osteoporosis better than any of them alone. Their effects are magnifying, not additive.
Most experts agree, now, that osteoporosis is NOT caused by a deficiency of calcium but how it is distributed in the body. Our hormones have to do with that and THEY are rerlated to how the hypothalamus tells them to work.
This is where the skilled rerlaxation comes in. If you have not read Pelletier's book you should. It would answer these kinds of questions in depth.
Thanks for sharing, Walt
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Walt Stoll on June 24, 1998 at 10:15:28:
Walt
I just saw my iridologist after 2 1/2 months. She is in my parents town 5 hours away. She was absolutely amazed at my progress. From the irises she could determine that most of the mucous has been eliminated from my colon!! Of course, I was well aware of the improvement in my condition even before her confirmation! She muscle tested for the cal apetite which tested positively for me, but I needed psillium seed for it to be properly absorbed. That kind of surprised her, but not me, since I think it all goes back to the leaky gut. I'm now taking 3 tablets at bedtime, rather than one with each meal. I feel like we're fine tuning it. She did mention the hypothalamus as needing support in distributing the calcium.
Yes, I read MAH,MAS several months ago right after I read your book. It's my favorite. I don't remember all of what I read, though. The brain wave tapes are great! I go in for biofeedback on Wed. and will report back after that!
Thanks.
Nancy