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Well, I went to biofeedback and I think I'm confused. I got the feeling that I usually get when I do SR at home- very relaxed as far as my body, heavy limbs, but still feel like my mind is thinking too much. He tried some music and then the glasses that have lights that invoke alpha. I responded better to the lights, however, he said as my alpha waves were better, my cognitive brainwaves also increased. Can this be possible? He said I need to focus on getting those cognitive, active brainwaves down. I just would have thought that when Alpha waves go up, other brainwaves would go down. Sooooooooo, I'm not sure if this is good enough to reverse chronic stress effect. I'm thinking that if I try again, I may do better. I was too busy analyzing what was going on with my brain waves and his computer screen that I guess I couldn't totally become passive.
Any thoughts?????
In Reply to: My neurofeedback experience posted by Lacy [1108.1351] on August 18, 2006 at 22:07:19:
Thanks, Lacy,
Keep on keeping on and you will become an expert.
Walt
In Reply to: My neurofeedback experience posted by Lacy [1108.1351] on August 18, 2006 at 22:07:19:
Hi Lacy,
Keep working with it and learning more.
When I went for biofeedback, I hit alpha but my nervous system became more tense. It was a revelation, because it helped me understand the difference, and then I was able to make the two parts synchronize. Even now, after 5 years of doing regular SR, I'm learning how I can take my relaxation deeper.
Just keep practicing, keep experimenting, and stay open to finding out what works best for you.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: My neurofeedback experience posted by Lacy [1108.1351] on August 18, 2006 at 22:07:19:
Thanks for the report, Lacy.
I don't have any suggestions for you since I've never been for biofeedback (would like to, though, which is why I was curious as to how a session would work).
My only thought is to "intend" on reaching alpha and relaxation every time you practice SR....intent is very important.
Tabby
In Reply to: My neurofeedback experience posted by Lacy [1108.1351] on August 18, 2006 at 22:07:19:
Sorry Walt and Happygal but I think your understanding of
brain waves is in need of an update. High Alpha is not a
panacea for healing. Each individual reacts to stress in
its own fashion. My own Alpha is off the charts at the top of the scale yet I still have some health issues and
would never consider myself to be calm, cool and collected. The topic of brainwaves must include an analysis of all four waves which can only be done by a
competent neurofeedback specialist. As well, the waves
vary within the various sectors of the brain making the
notion of biofeedback via skin sensors on the fingers
seem pretty amateurish.
While I would agree that SR is an excellent choice for
some....it is not a cure all for the mind in that many
people will only be practicing their own flawed pathways
of comprehending the world.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 19, 2006 at 15:02:46:
Thanks, PaulC.
How often do you practice your "high alpha" per day and how long have you done it that way?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 20, 2006 at 06:52:36:
Walt
I did SR for over a year and while it did help in a number of ways my therapist and I now believe that Alpha
is not what I need. We have seen very good improvements
in a range of symptoms by raising Theta and actually inhibiting Alpha. She says that under stress my brain
produces high alpha in an attempt to calm itself...but
Alpha is about logic and where my own particular weakness lies is in the aspect of Theta which is about
emotion. Theta is also considered to be a more healing
wavelength wheras Alpha is a more calming wavelength.
In her opinion some people can meditate themselves
out of illness and some simply tread water by doing so.
I can say that her therapy...I am up to about 60 sessions so far...has worked better than my year of SR.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 08:29:46:
Hi Paulc,
Excellent discovery! Everyone is different.... glad that you ended up looking in the right direction -- brainwaves.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 08:29:46:
So, does this mean that stress reduction is a different aspect of healing than theta healing?
So how would an individual know which brainwave they are achieving? You'd need someone or something to tell you?
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Sally [1945.1192] on August 20, 2006 at 13:16:39:
I am learning about it myself, but my understanding is that stress causes a range of disruptions in brain waves.
There may be some that go into Theta when they meditate
and some that simply go into Alpha. My guess is that
one would go into what one is practiced at using to
achieve stress reduction....however sometimes this is not
the best direction.
Einstein once said that no problem is solved by thinking
in the same pattern that created it...
I would suggest you look into neurobiofeedback and as Walt says....tell us what you learn.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 14:06:20:
OK, Paul, just wondered if you and your facilitator kind of experimenting or he/she has been trained in the theory somehow. Thank you for the explanation.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Sally [1945.1192] on August 20, 2006 at 14:44:47:
She has been at it for a decade and yes, constantly
is learning via courses and patient experiences...
IMHO this whole area is about experimenting.....there is
no bible one can quote and no normal combination of brain
waves.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 08:29:46:
Hi Paul,
Hmmm, I wonder if I have something similar going on. What I believe to be the alpha state is not particularly healing for me. I do best, in terms of less pain, feeling more rested, and more relaxed when I have been in what I believe to be theta. The way I tell the difference is that with theta, I'm completely *checked out*. Not asleep, but not alert either, and I don't know where I have been or how long I have been there, and I often have had no thoughts. With alpha, I'm relaxed and still, but I can still hear the clock ticking and my mind is still working consciously. Sometimes I'm working on resolution of a problem or answer to a question, but most of the time I'm thinking, at least fleetingly, about other distractions.
My doctor (DC internist) has a neurofeedback machine and has suggested in the past that I might benefit from it because he thought my body might be habituated to the pain and dysfunction I experience. I wanted to learn more about it before I decided to do it, but I couldn't find much info online. He hasn't brought it up for quite a few months, but maybe we want to go down that road at some point.
A woman I know (reflexologist & healer) went to Calif. for some biofeedback training work. I recall her saying she had a lot of high alpha and they were trying to bring her down. She is definitely not calm...LOL!
Thanks for the interesting discussion. Glad you are receiving so many benefits from your sessions and improving.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 20, 2006 at 16:40:15:
Your description of Theta is EXACTLY what I experience and I have the charts/data to prove it...seems like we have a lot in common.
Do check out http://www.eegspectrum.com/
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 08:29:46:
Hi Paul,
Why do you need to keep going back for so many sessions? Wouldn't the goal be to learn how to get into theta on your own, so you don't need these sessions? It sounds like your dependant on your neurofeedback therapist. I'm not knocking your success, but am just wondering if you will eventually be able to reach theta independently and not need these sessions anymore. 60 sessions sounds like a lot. Also, just curious, if you don't mind saying, how much are these types of neurofeedback sessions?
Sapphire
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 20, 2006 at 16:40:15:
Hi Nutmeg
I resonate with your post.
I am exactly the same (theta effects where I am "completely checked out"), although i have had health benefits from being in alpha. I have practised alpha much more than theta, so can't say for sure about the health benefits of theta for me.
How do you get to theta (use cd's or which meditation technique), rather than alpha?
I find it much easier to achieve (actually everytime) when I use a cd thats geared towards theta.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 08:29:46:
Thanks, PaulC.
You MUST know that people are infinitely different--as we have said on this BB for years. What I have consistantly recomended is for people to find their own way. I have only recommended the, BY FAR, most commonly successful approachs here. However, I have given sufficient resources for anyone to go beyond this level if they are interested.
Congratulations for persisting until you found YOUR path. That still does not mean that the vast majority of people would not find it just from the simple stuff we have recommended here OR that very many people would find your path to be the right one for them.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Sapphire [735.1584] on August 21, 2006 at 00:09:11:
The sessions run about $75...Fully acessing theta without
a therapist to control one`s reactions can bring about
abreactions when one is confronting childhood trauma...I
know....I tried it once and the effect was not pleasant.
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Happygal [2062.2803] on August 19, 2006 at 08:38:27:
Hi Happygal
You're a total expert on this subject and I was curious to know if you ahve ever experiemented with just using theta for meditaiton, rather than just using alpha????
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Miss Bliss [4.1623] on August 21, 2006 at 10:15:46:
Hi Miss,
I probably go in and out of both, depending upon the day and the session. I don't try to keep track, really. I'm pretty casual about it, but some people probably need to go into the details. Everyone is different.
Recently it seems that I can get my body more deeply relaxed if I lay down when doing SR, and that deeper relaxation calms my nervous system even more. So I'm changing what I do in my sessions.
It's an ongoing learning experience. I always encourage people to keep experimenting because that way they learn more.
However the bottom line, as I see it, is whatever the variation of exactly how you practice these 3 things (relaxation, nutrition, exercise), most health problems still seem to come down to these basics.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience posted by Paulc [3806.1617] on August 20, 2006 at 19:26:19:
Hi Paul,
Thanks so much for that confirmation about theta. I do believe that's what I experience most of the time when I meditate/do SR.
I never could see the point of getting checked with biofeedback, because I regularly experience many characteristics of the relaxation response and I feel relaxed and rejuvenated when I come back from an SR session. I also have a lot of spiritual experiences, communicate to other dimensions to receive healings and information, etc. and I don't believe that would be happening if I was not in an altered state.
I did borrow a device from a friend that hooked on a finger somehow (it's been a few years and I've forgotten just what it was). I tried to use it once and it squealed so bad just hooking it up that I put it back in the box and returned it right away. It was definitely not conducive to relaxation, and it doesn't take much to disturb me. I think I would have a hard time *performing* SR at a biofeedback clinic if I could even find one.
Thank you for that helpful link, which was new to me. I plan to do more exploring there when I get the opportunity. My DC is listed in the directory.
Thanks again,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience (Nutmeg and Paul) posted by Miss Bliss [4.1623] on August 21, 2006 at 03:19:39:
Hi Blissy,
Oh, glad to know I'm not the only one!
I use a variety of techniques for SR/meditation. Most of the time I believe I’m receiving both physical and spiritual healing/growth benefits when I practice, and it’s definitely my goal to do both at once. I don’t usually aim for theta or alpha when I lay down to practice…just whatever wants to come. Sometimes nothing happens, and then I get up and try another time, or I just rest or take a nap!
When I am at home I almost always lay down either on the bed or in my zero gravity lounge chair, because when I’m really comfortable it’s very easy for me to reach theta. Once in a while I doze off, but I have trained myself to slip into theta and stay out of delta, so it’s pretty easy now. I used the big spoon trick for many months when I first started SR 5-6 years ago. I believe my bodymind knows that theta is where I receive the most healing and spiritual benefits so that’s where it goes most often, unless I work at staying in alpha. When I stay in alpha, I don’t usually feel as relaxed and rested when I’m done, but I do keep working at that, too, because I think it’s important to be able to do both. I figure a mix of brain waves is probably good brain exercise and probably heals on different levels :o)
When I’m at church or elsewhere doing a group or private guided meditation or hypnosis session, I’m usually seated, so my body is not as comfortable as when I’m lying down. That probably makes it harder for me to go deep, so I usually stay in alpha. This is good, though, because we do healing processes in our group or private guided meditations that require awareness, so alpha is the place to go for that. Sometimes, though, I slip in and out of theta and then I really can’t follow the rest of the meditation because I’ve been off somewhere doing something else! Sometimes I have other visions during that time, or receive healing energy, so that can be a pretty powerful experience. I figure it’s healing no matter what, so I don’t try to fight whatever happens naturally.
My difficulty with staying in alpha is sometimes annoying, though, if I do want to work on an issue while I’m meditating alone. It’s also difficult for me to focus on an issue when I don’t have someone leading me…like if I want to resolve an issue or just meditate on a word or affirmation on my own.
I do find it pretty easy to slip into what is probably slow alpha when I’m concentrating on something else. I worry about this, because I’ve found myself doing it a couple of times while driving recently and I stopped looking at the road before I realized what was happening and snapped myself out of it. Not cool.
Sometimes I use music/sounds (centerpointe dive & immersion, SOMA, or other music meditation CDs I have). I think the centerpointe ones target passing through alpha on the way to theta for the most part. I’ve been listening to SOMA by Tom Kenyon for years. I still love the music and it still puts me somewhere out in space, even though I don’t think it targets theta specifically. Other times I just hold crystals or place them on my body, sometimes I listen to guided imagery or hypnosis CDs or just relaxing music, and other times I just quiet my mind and see where it goes, or ask my angels and guides for healing work or input about a situation. Breathing or other awareness techniques sometimes augment the process. Other times I just sit and zone out somewhat, with nothing structured. Sometimes I count my breaths or focus on how my body is moving when I’m on my daily walk. Most of the input I receive from the spirit world comes when I am walking or doing other activities, rather than in meditation, though, unless I’m doing a guided session with someone. I guess listening to brain-wave type CDs does make it easier to go to theta for me, as well.
I find this stuff so interesting, and I'm glad to know I'm in good company. Hope this helps, Blissy.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience (Nutmeg and Paul) posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 22, 2006 at 02:39:34:
Hi nutmeg
I had the same thing in my meditation class. use to go so deep, that I would no longer be listening, and out doing my own thing, but on a much deeper level, not through my own volition though.
I wish there was a surefire way to get to theta.I normally find the best way is with either Centerpointe, or a Cd geared towards theta. Rarely have i reached theta with basic meditation, but the difference between alpha and theta is profound.
I know in our meditation class, when we did a hypnosis meditation, that I went soooooo deep, I could hardly sit on the couch any longer. felt like I was going to have to lay down and curl into a ball, I ahd gone so deep, almost too deep. Felt so out of it when I came back out of the medditation. didn't particularly like that feeling at all.
I found Centerpointe very 3easy to get to theta as well. I just didn't realize how beneficial theta could be. This could be quite a discovery. but just like walt says we are all so individula in our responses.
In what way do you receive input from your guides???
Unlike you, I havent' been lucky enough to get messages from my guides,just a couple of times now. although I have seen my guide during meditation. That was interesting. A very old chinese man in traditional chinese dress.
I am looking forward tothe day I can teach my baby to meditate. that will jsut be awesome!
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience (Nutmeg ) posted by Miss Boliss [4.1623] on August 23, 2006 at 03:49:15:
Hi Blissy,
It's interesting how we can lose ourselves so deeply and be so relaxed when meditating or doing hypnosis.
If you ever try hypnosis again, be sure to set your intent to only go as deep as you feel comfortable. Generally that's all the deeper we allow ourselves to go, but for some reason you had an unpleasant reaction. Perhaps the hypnotherapist made an error in bringing you out too quickly, or something. They probably could have helped you recuperate if you had spoken up, but I know that's hard to do.
I'm going to experiment with cultivating my alpha abilities, because it would be handy to be aware once in a while.
My spirit guides usually talk to me. I don't actually hear it out loud, but what they say is as clear as day. I can also ask them questions and they usually reply immediately, before I even finish the thought/words, so I know it's not my own mind answering. They also send me signs, especially if I receive an answer (or think I have) and then ask for confirmation so I can be sure before taking a big step. Then I will see or hear things that are related to the question/issue all over town and I will have my answer. I don't get many visuals when I'm meditating alone, mostly just in group guided meditations.
I have seen several of my angels and spirit guides, but not all of them. Other people have described some of them to me, as well. Guides come and go, sometimes, and are with us for special purposes. Others are with us for all of our lives. I have seen all of my animals guides, at least all the ones I know about, sometimes with someone helping me.
I'm glad you had the experience of seeing one and receiving some messages. If you would like to see and receive more, you can ask them to assist with opening a pathway, raising your vibration level, and adjusting your filters so that you can!
Take care, Blissy.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: My neurofeedback experience (Miss Bliss ) posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 24, 2006 at 02:02:46:
Thanks so much, Nutmeg
could you email me at mareea31@hotmail.com
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