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Hello,
I'm looking into purchasing a GSR or EEG unit for SR purposes. If I shell out the $$$ for an EEG, is it possible to verify myself that I'm in alpha/theta state?
Does anyone own or have experience with the Brainmaster or Waverider, Jr.? (Around $1000 new, hoping to find some used - know where?)
Failing that, does anyone have experience with either the ThoughtStream GSR or EDS Bioscan GSR?
How about Light/Sound machines for SR? (Some hook into the Thoughtstream abd Bioscan machines).
Thanks in advance for any feedback you can offer.
In Reply to: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by Alpha/Theta-male on March 06, 2002 at 11:06:00:
I have a both. The EEG is incredibly hard to operate, and the GSR just doesn't seem like the most reliable machine, since it's not measuring brainwaves.
If I were you, I would invest my money towards seeing a competent biofeedback clinic.
I hope this is of some help.
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by Jeff C. on March 06, 2002 at 12:06:19:
Thanks for the advice. I'm not surprised at the GSR since I returned my GSR-2 immediately.
Disappointing about the EEGs, which model do you have? I'm fairly technical (computer person) and if they truly measure brainwaves, would like to try them. It is possible to get them used/save some $$$?
I am hunting for a good clinic in my area. My last biofeedback therapist sadly, wasn't up on the alpha/theta thing and used temp, muscle and GSR as indicators of relaxation. I'm hoping I find people who know this stuff, but it seems rare.
Thanks again Jeff.
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by L. Luthor on March 06, 2002 at 12:16:08:
Hi,
I'm currently seeing a biofeedback therapist who does respiration/heart rate biofeedback and brainwave biofeedback. If you let me know what state/area you're in, I can ask him if he has a contact. He seems to be pretty well-connected in the field. Or, if you're in the Seattle area, I can give you his info. Also, try www.biofeedback.net if you haven't already. It's a pretty ugly site, but there may be a contact listed : )
Best of luck,
Daisy
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by L. Luthor on March 06, 2002 at 12:16:08:
Jeff,
I have owned a couple of Light & Sound machines. My first one was a Zygon unit (no longer produced) that first introduced me to L&S machine. About 1989 or so I purchased a NovaPro programmable L&S machine. I experimented extensively with it, in no small part because it had software that allowed you to program the machine using the computer. A serial cable from the computer to the NovaPro allowed upload and download of custom programs.
This cabability should allow you the control you are looking for in terms of being positive that your brain is being entrained in theta, but I don't know that it will help in a subjective experience of the state.
Walking In The Light,
Gregory
In Reply to: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by Alpha/Theta-male on March 06, 2002 at 11:06:00:
Hi, Alpha.
I have used (professionally) all the different kinds of biofeedback machines, I would never recommend anyone using an EEG (for direct measurement of brain waves) since they are very difficult to use and interference creats so much distraction.
The indirect measurement of the relaxation effect (good GSR machine) is what we eventually gravitated toward and finally used exclusively.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on March 07, 2002 at 09:06:39:
That makes perfect sense if you can find a "good" GSR unit.
After reading the archives, no one has located the quality unit (around $300) with which you were familiar. I have read that you don't like the GSR-2, and from the similar price range thought that the ThoughtStream and EDS/Bioscan may not good units either. So I figured I would go for a "low-end/$950" consumer EEG and measure the brainwaves directly, saving the trips to a pracitioner. (The Waverider, Jr. does have GSR as well). It's just a little confusing, but your experience leads me back to GSR and it's either the ThoughtStream or EDS/Bioscan. Any recommendations for one or the other (from anyone) would be appreciated.
Thanks again.
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by Gregory on March 07, 2002 at 04:20:01:
Thanks, man.
I've never had the opportunity to try out a Light/Sound machine for Sr.
Jeff
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations posted by L. Luthor on March 06, 2002 at 12:16:08:
Hey, Luthor...
My EEG is from autogenics. It MAY be possible for you to figure it out if you're good with electronics (I'm not). Part of my dissapointment, moreover, has do with the fact that the techsupport you can call hasn't a clue. I really think the device was meant for technicians, though cleverly marketed towards the public.
If you can buy them used, I can only think of E-bay as being the place to do so. I really don't know. If you lived in my town and I'd sell you mine for cheap.
I hear you on the sad results with clinics. I drove three hours to one only to be dissapointed with their knowledge of what it was I wanted them to do.
Best of luck,
Jeff
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations (Archive.) posted by Alpha/Theta-male on March 07, 2002 at 11:22:29:
Congratulations, Alpha/Theta male!
You have bugged me enough that I went through the jungle that is my garage (after many other times unsuccessfully) & actually found a few of the GSRs we used to use in my center.
Thank you!
The one we finally settled on is made by the American Biofeedback Corporation, 24 Browning Drive, Ossining, NY 10562. Their phone, 10 years ago, was (914) 762-4646. We used the GSR Model A3. It is a wooden box 12" X 6" X 7". It has 2-9 volt batteries, plugs in the back for Alt Feedback, Ext. Meter & earphones besides the finger sensor plug.
On the front there are 2 battery test buttons-- one for positive and one for negative, volume knob, tone knob, meter scale (x.5,x1,x2,x4 & x6), meter center dials (Rx 10K and Rx 100K).
Hope this helps and thank you again for "helping" me find these machines!
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on March 08, 2002 at 09:46:30:
Well, nagging makes the world go 'round, no? ;)
I called and they are still there. I spoke with Marylin, who kept raving about the unit you used, how everyone loves it, and how much more sensitive it is than what is being made today. According to them, I snatched up the last one they had (the manufacturer, Intertel, is not making them anymore) and the next GSR up they sell is $850.
They said the last A3 was selling for $485, but gave it me for for a "steal" of $310 (with shipping). I know I'm overpaying, but I know what I'm getting and it's done. It should be here next week.
Thank you so much for rumaging! I will post my experience with the unit and put it into the "used equipment" pool for the board once I get my SR technique down.
In Reply to: Re: Biofeedback Equipment Recommendations (Archive.) posted by Alpha/Theta-male on March 08, 2002 at 17:41:17:
Thanks, Alpha.
Glad you could get the "last one". That is about what we paid for them 20 years ago.
When you open yours up you will see that they should not cost nearly this much.
Perhaps you could go into business. I would bet that the components cost less than $50 and are available at any Radio Shack.
Namaste`
Walt
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