Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

third day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Louise on October 28, 1998 at 18:43:54:

I was prepared for an avalanche of reaction, yet, until tonight, I have really not had much of any at all. In fact I have been feeling lighter, leaner, and very clear-headed.
I even had a major brealthrough in my attempts at skilled meditation -(for the first time I was quite sure I was in the "zone" and did not feel bored or anxious and felt very refreshed afterward)

Tonite I took my first Alka-Seltzer Gold for a dull headache that has been getting increasingly difficult to ignore. My muscles also feel achey -just going up the stairs makes me feel like I have run a marathon. Also, I have a general feeling of craving, although for nothing specific. Oddly, I little appetite and have to remind myself to eat. Yesterday I went seven waking hours without food, which for me (being hypoglycemic), may be a record. I felt fine -not dizzy and weak as usual.

I was starting to think I was doing something wrong. Actually I have been slowly moving toward ingesting
"allergy -free" foods for the past couple of weeks.

Is this why my reaction is slow reacting and fairly mild?
I thought I would be drooling, retching and mumbling by now. Maybe because I had such a foreboding that anything less than a coma seems pretty mild.

What do you think, Bob?

Also, any thoughts on exercise? I have taken daily walks and a little yoga, but noticed I had to suddenly sit down today from lightheadedness while doing the "sun salute".

Thanks, Bob!

Louise


Follow Ups:


Re: third day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Robert McFerran on October 28, 1998 at 23:51:24:

In Reply to: third day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Louise on October 28, 1998 at 18:43:54:

Louise,

Would you believe that I have another Louise right here in Louisville that is on day three of her elimination diet? She has had every increasing fibromyalgia for the last 6 years. She called me last night (the end of her day two) to ask me if vomiting was in the list of possible withdrawl symptoms. I told her it was and she proceeded to tell me that she had a constant headache as well as increasing aches and pains.

Most folks with SEVERE leaky gut have more severe withdrawl. Some people (about 15%) have little or no withdrawl but happily they clear their symptoms all the same.

You are either clearing a bit more slowly or the work that you have done to date is helping mitigate some of your withdrawl. If you are just starting to experience withdrawl I can tell you that it will probably intensify tommorrow.

Did you have a 5 hour glucose tolerance test to tell ou that you were hypoglycemic or have you just had hypoglycemic symptoms? Some real hypoglycemics (which are by definition H-G metabolic types) can go long periods without IF they limit their activities. But the great majority find themselves eating at least 4 meals a day.

Stay the course with the low risk diet that you are on and let's see if your appetite comes back as you clear.

Limit your exercise until you clear (usually day 5 or 6).

Thank you for sharing your experience with me and the rest of the BB.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: fourth day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Louise on October 29, 1998 at 11:13:06:

In Reply to: Re: third day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Robert McFerran on October 28, 1998 at 23:51:24:

Hi, Bob! Thanks for your reply.

Wow- I guess I spoke too soon. Last night, after I posted, that dull headache grew into a monster migraine. I was incapacitated with one of the worst headaches of my life.
I was also in a cold sweat alternating with a feverish feeling and nausea.

In desperation I took two Imidrin - pescription migraine pain killers - and a vitamin B complex.(Sometimes around the onset of menses -which is right around now - I get migraines which are helped by Vit B)

I hope I didn't compromise the integrity of the elimination fast. At that point I might have eaten ground glass if I thought it would alleviate the pain. I did hold off on the ibuprofen, though. That would have been the next step.

Then, I mercifully fell asleep, and this morning I still feel a little shaky and slightly feverish, but only a faint dull headache. Am I over the worst of it? I hope so.

In the past, I have had a gazillion glucose tests- I had gestational diabetes with my pregnancies, and every time they were so debilitating I refuse to do any more now. The results were usually "borderline" but I am suspicious of the typical allopathic standards for measuremnt. I consider myself "reactive".

There is not a lot of room for doubt that I am an extereme Hunter-Gatherer/fast oxidizer.

I have been debating the value of testing my own blood glucose levels, but now that I have sorted out my diet, I rarely have any problems -as long as I stick to a
H-G/ type "O" /gluten-free/low carb/high protein/high fat diet.

The reason I am doing the elimination diet is to find the source of my ongoing fatigue, chronic low back pain, persistent excema, and tendency for arthritic joints. I am 44, and I alternate feeling like I am 25 (on good days) to 90 years old (all the rest of the time).

So, Bob, did I blow it with the meds?

Thanks,
Louise



Follow Ups:


Re: fourth day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Robert Mc Ferran on October 29, 1998 at 16:36:21:

In Reply to: Re: fourth day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Louise on October 29, 1998 at 11:13:06:

Louise,

The meds probably didn't mess you up TOO much. You see the problem is that they can have trace amounts of the things that you are eliminating (i.e. corn starch) which would interfere with your testing of corn IF you tested corn as one of your first foods (you need about 5 days of TOTAL avoidance of a food, no matter how minute the quantity, in order to have a 'hyper-acute' response when you re-ingest it).

Your withdrawl came a day late and that will mean that it will take a day or two longer than average for you to 'clear' all of your symptoms. I know how vitamins can help with headaches but please don't take them unless you absolutely have to.

Tommorow morning when you wake up you'll probably feel better and know that you are done with the withdrawl portion and are on to the clearing.

If you are a Hunter-Gatherer you should really feel the need to be eating several (4-5) meals a day consisting of some of the fish, some vegetables and a little fruit. A meal of vegetables and fruit alone will leave you feeling hungry and weak within 3 hours.

You are on the precipice of finding why you feel good some days and poorly on others. Before I learned what you are learning now I was always perplexed whenever I would have a 'flare' in my symptoms. Of course the explaination for these unpredictable and intermittent flares is a mystery for rheumatology. Their answer was to prescibe more drugs or to have you 'ride it out' in pain.

Once I determined my hidden food allergies I never had a flare of arthritic symtpoms again. A couple of slices of pizza and a beer or two used to throw me into a crippling 'flare'. I subsequently found that I had strong reactions to wheat, milk, brewers yeast and bakers yeast. The beer and pizza provided all of the above -- enough for a very potent reaction even though I was taking a snootful of immune-suppressing drugs!

Bob



Follow Ups:


Re: fifth day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Louise on October 30, 1998 at 08:25:54:

In Reply to: Re: fourth day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Robert Mc Ferran on October 29, 1998 at 16:36:21:

Thanks, Bob!

This is day five and I am feeling quite a lot better.

I am thinking of extending this experiment a few extra days, with the addition of beef. I don't know if you remember, but you did give me the thumbs up on lamb, since we are in agreement in my HG status. It has been my mainstay -organic lamb soup (lamb shanks, water, and salt) cooked for 10-12 hours until the bones disintegrate. I can go 3-4 hours -sometimes longer- on a big bowl.

You are right -vegetables are almost like eating nothing. Even if they fill me up I still am "hungry" and want to eat again after half an hour. Fish does not hold me that long. I ate some mackerel and that was good for about an hour and a half. The more I stay away from carbs, the better I seem to do.

One very nice bonus is that I am in a mild state of ketosis, which is about the only way I have ever lost weight. I have already dropped 8 lbs this past week. Yes, I know a goodly amount of that is water, but that is fine, because of the ketones, I know bodyfat is going too. I am thinking that I am generally edemic becaue of allergies or sensitivities. Giving up wheat (about a year ago) eliminated the majority of my bloating and edema.

So, unless you have some objections, I will go 10 days, including beef (assuming I have no reaction -which feverently hope I don't) because of the late reaction and the meds, and also just to be on the safe side. I only want to have to do this once.

I really appreciate all your help, Bob.

How is your other Louise doing?


Warm regards,

Louise



Follow Ups:


Re: fifth day of elimination diet...Bob?

Posted by Robert McFerran on October 30, 1998 at 12:30:46:

In Reply to: Re: fifth day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Louise on October 30, 1998 at 08:25:54:

Louise,

Louisville Louise is also clearing. I believe that she is also a Hunter-Gatherer.

There is a strong logic for when to begin testing new foods. I like to wait until you've turned the corner from withdrawl to clearing and then make you stay with the low risk diet (in your case I'll let you add lamb to that list)until you've gone two days with no changes (in this case further improvement) of symptoms.

Of course you can just to 10 days -- you would certainly be as 'clear' as you are going to get. Then you can begin to test up to three new foods a day.

Thanks again for continuing to share your experience. None of it is unusual to Dr. Stoll or myself yet in the hands of the best allopathic physician at the best medical center in the U.S. it would be a mystery............

Keep up the good work.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob?

Posted by Louise on October 31, 1998 at 13:08:05:

In Reply to: Re: fifth day of elimination diet...Bob? posted by Robert McFerran on October 30, 1998 at 12:30:46:

Hi, Bob!

Well, it is the sixth day, and I ate a beef steak. So far so good.

I do want to take it slow -starting with beneficial O freindly H-G foods(I am not planning to eat anything else) -like beef. I think I will wait a few days on eggs, since they have high allergy potetntial.

Is there any particular order you recommend for introducing foods back into the diet?, How long before seeing a reaction is typical? What should I be looking for, reaction-wise?

I feel pretty good , with a faint dull headache, but I ususally do with my period. I am not sure how to distinguish what is from where -

Should I start with other meats- chicken, chicken livers, or tuna, salmon, etc.?

This morning I am going to drink some peppermint (pure and organic) tea- just tea -nothing added. I am so thrilled!

I really like something hot to drink in the morning- lamb soup is great, but it lacks the pizazz of peppermint. (I figured it was a good place to start.)

I guess I am only sort of waiting - going slow anyway...

The next on my list is squash with ghee . I have seen other elimination type diets a little less restrictive and I figured the foods allowed there were probably relatively allergy free.

So, what say you, Coach Bob?

How is your other Louise doing?

Do you have a practice as a nutritionist, or counselor, or what? Are you mostly self-taught or have some formal training? I seem to recall your background is in bio-chemisrty or something of the sort.

And, BTW, how is your book coming??


Thanks again,

Louise


Follow Ups:


Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob?

Posted by Robert McFerran on October 31, 1998 at 18:30:20:

In Reply to: Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob? posted by Louise on October 31, 1998 at 13:08:05:

Louise,

I would really like you to lose that dull headache (a sign that you have really cleared) before you go testing any more foods -- at least for a couple of days.

In my book it looks like I'm going to suggest what to eat at every meal. I'm going to start with the things that have a lower allergenic potential but be sure to test the BIGGIES (wheat, corn, milk, soy, brewers yeast, bakers yeast) toward the end of the first week in the testing phase. You will start to build a degree of resistance after eliminating food allergens. This is the whole idea behind rotation diets.

Reactions tend to happen 45 minutes to 2 hours after ingestion. Fatigue, headache, abdominal distress, sleepiness, dizziness, brain fog and confusion, aching joints, etc. are the major symptoms. Be sure to keep a diary of everything that you eat and how you felt afterward. In rare cases there is a delayed reaction (usually with wheat and milk) that gradually builds over a day or two.

When you try your squash with ghee remember that you cannot have them both together during the first test meal. Ghee for one test and then ghee and squash together if the ghee was o.k.

Louisville Louise has cleared quite nicely and will start introducing foods on Sunday.

I don't have any formal training in nutrition. I've attempted to assimilate the observations of various nutritional theories into a protocol that is more unified, logical and most importantly effective for the largest percentage of folks.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: food imtroduction..Bob?

Posted by Louise on October 31, 1998 at 21:41:06:

In Reply to: Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob? posted by Robert McFerran on October 31, 1998 at 18:30:20:

Hi, Bob,

Headache is gone, but I still feel tired and a bit achey.
My excema, however, is almost completely clear!

Do we really beleive that I am going to be totally symptom-free when I am clear? That all my various
physical idiosyncracies will be resolved? This does not seem likely to me. I do suppose alot of ailments are connected to food allergies, but ...everything?

It's not that I want to sound skeptical, but it is hard to believe.

I guess I am a bit discouraged and a tad grouchy as well. I will check in tomorrow.

Thanks for your patience.

Louise


Follow Ups:


Re: food imtroduction..Bob?

Posted by Robert McFerran on October 31, 1998 at 22:57:52:

In Reply to: Re: food imtroduction..Bob? posted by Louise on October 31, 1998 at 21:41:06:

Louise,

Each individual will clear a different amount of their symptoms. I have seen some that CLEAR ALL of their symptoms via the elimination diet. I have also seen as little as 15% improvement. Those with a lot of improvement usually don't have as significant a candida or bacterial problem as those that clear a lot.

In your case since you were slow to have withdrawl symptoms you need to be a little more patient to ensure that you have cleared all you can before beginning testing.

Some of your fatigue will no doubt improve as you segue into the H-G diet.

If there are still symptoms left after the dietary manipulation you check for candida overload as well as the pepto-bismol test for bacterial endotoxins -- then treat as needed.

Add skilled relaxation to the above and you'll have an excellent chance of resolving the one problem that brought you the food allergies in the first place -- your leaky gut.

So you can see it isn't all just dietary manipulation. For some it will yield great benefit while others will see something more modest.

Bob



Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob?

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 01, 1998 at 09:07:52:

In Reply to: Re: sixth day ...and the big question...Bob? posted by Robert McFerran on October 31, 1998 at 18:30:20:

Hi, Bob!

I have not been ignoring your contributions, I have been reading them all (along with the notes from those you are helping).

I just wanted you to know that I have not been writing responses because I am learning from you and those you are helping. I have nothing to add and have enough to do with those places I can contribute to.

I continue to be gratified that you are here on this BB.

Namaste` walt




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