Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by LOUISE on November 05, 1998 at 11:54:28:

Hello, Bob et al,

I am returned from the land of clearing.

This morning my daughter went off to catch her school bus, and I noticed she forgot her planner. I grabbed it and, without thinking too much about it, SPRINTED after her trying to make it there before the bus did, for about three blocks (about a quarter mile).

It felt great! My heart was thumping and my lungs felt stretched, and I had NO PAIN in my legs or back!

What a difference! I have to admit there for awhile I wondered if this whole elimination diet effort was worth it, but the improvement is not to be denied.

I think I am getting the hang of the food testing. I fried up a slab of onion to have with my hamburger and within a half an hour my throat felt constricted and I felt like I was coming down with a cold. Big time histimine reaction!
It lasted for a few hours and was gone. ONIONS! Who would have tought? I love onions. I have no doubt now that they do not love me. Does this mean I should avoid them completely or just minimize consumption? A small amount, well cooked, as in soup, doesn't seem to bother me.

Also a minscule amount of corn syrup gave me an almost instant headache. (I am an O and should know better, but it was only a tiny amount in my apple chips) Now I know for sure.

So, I am wondering about degree.

BTW, way would you please explain...

<> (your quote)

Thanks for hanging in there with me, Bob.
You were a great support.

Louise


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 13:14:43:

In Reply to: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by LOUISE on November 05, 1998 at 11:54:28:

Louise,

I'm glad that you hung in there.

Your experience was a powerful one. I am well pleased that you've started to see the rewards for your work.

The reaction to onion is probably due to the metabolic shift away from your H-G optimum. You might find you can tolerate small amounts without any noticable problem.

The corn on the other hand IS a classic hyper-acute response driven by the leaking of corn peptides into the bloodstream and subsequent production of anti-bodies that are reacting with other tissues in your body.

This means eat whole foods, eliminate all traces of corn and limit the amount of onion. Metabolically speaking you'll be more tolerant of the small amounts of the onion if eaten during your evening meal.

I'm not sure what you mean by my quote? Could you help me out?

Bob


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Susan Mierswa on November 05, 1998 at 15:49:35:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 13:14:43:

Bob,

What I remember you quoting is those that clear quickly or easily usually don't have the candida or bacterial problems that those who take longer to clear have.

Hope that helps. I was curious about that too.

Susan



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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 16:33:34:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Susan Mierswa on November 05, 1998 at 15:49:35:

Susan,

Thanks for the help but I don't believe I said that and I certainly KNOW that I didn't mean that.

HOWEVER I didn't communicate what I intended effectively if this is what you thought I said. Is there any surprise that I'm up til two a.m. nights re-writing parts of my book! :) I might just have to call in a ghost writer......

O.K. -- let me see if I can do a better job this time.

First of all about 85% of folks will experience strong to moderate withdrawl while 15% DON'T have any withdrawl. They will all experience some clearing.

Those that clear 100% of their symptoms usually don't have a yeast or bacterial problem -- they just have a leaky gut. If they let it persist however there is a VERY good chance that dysbiosis (the lost balance of bacterial micro-flora) will occur in the future.

This doesn't hold true all the time but there is an interesting aside for those out there familiar with rheumatoid arthritis. There is a blood test that measures what is called 'rheumatoid factor'. Many folks when first diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis are 'sero-negative' meaning they have normal amounts of this rheumatoid factor in their blood. Rheumatologists know (yet are perplexed) to find that almost all of these folks will become 'sero-positive' with elevated levels of rheumatoid factor in the future. Generally speaking sero-positive disease is much more severe than it's sero-negative counterpart.

To me those with sero-negative RA definately have leaky gut in place. When they graduate to sero-positive status they ALWAY have either yeast or bacterial imbalance leading to a chronic state of dysbiosis.

Back to the question asked.....

Those that clear significantly less than 100% of their symptoms at the end of the elimination diet have other factors creating mischief. The usual culprits are yeast and gram negative bacteria. Inhaled allergens (primarily house dust and molds as well as some chemical sensitivities (usually chlorine in water, formaldehyde and solvents) can also play a part. Once these are addressed most folks will find that they clear almost all of their symptoms.

Bob


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Louise on November 05, 1998 at 17:12:30:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 16:33:34:

Sorry, Bob, it seemed to disappear...

You did answer my question, though.

So, in other words you are saying that because I was delayed in clearing and didn't clear completely, it means I have other problems. In my case, that would most likely be candida (which I already suspect has been a problem).

Now what?

Since I eat almost no carbs (veg only -nothing refined and no sugar) nothing fermented and supplemenmt with acidophilus and FOS, and do SR, is there anything else I can do?

Louise


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Louise on November 05, 1998 at 17:19:36:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 13:14:43:

OOPS!

here it is...

"Those with a lot of improvement usually don't have as significant a candida or bacterial problem as those that clear a lot."

I thought if you improve significantly, that it was because you cleared a lot. Perhaps I am confused.

Thanks, Susan. I don't know how you figured out
what I meant ...

Louise


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 21:07:37:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Louise on November 05, 1998 at 17:12:30:

Louise,

What percentage of your symptoms do you think you have cleared?

Once you are out of the testing phase you can give the pepto-bismol test a try.

I do think it would also be worthwhile to get a Candida Immune Complexes test done by Antibody Assays to quantify your current candida 'load'.

I too did all the things that you are doing and it is not enough if you have a significant yeast overload.

I've found that Hunter-gatherers don't do too well (metabolically speaking) with FOS. How have you done on it?

Bob


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 21:16:58:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Louise on November 05, 1998 at 17:19:36:

Louise,

I can see why the sentence confused you and Susan. It's completely meaningless!! Now I'm going to try and tell you that it's some sort of Buddhist koan (blush) -- sort of like "what is the sound of one hand clapping".

What I meant to say was that "Those with a lot of improvement usually don't have as significant a candida or bacterial problem as those that DON'T CLEAR VERY MUCH."

The folks that feel less than a 50% improvement on the low risk diet almost alway have a raging yeast problem. Sometimes they have a combination of both yeast and gram neg. bacterial overgrowth.

Bob






Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 06, 1998 at 08:40:36:

In Reply to: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by LOUISE on November 05, 1998 at 11:54:28:

Bless you, Louise, for sharing your progress!

There are still a lot of people ont he BB who are sitting on the fence. It seems they don't really want to know that their "trusted docs" have been denying them something so effective simply because is doesn't produce an income for them.

Keep up the good work. You are just at the beginning of the benefits you will see in the long run. While you are feeling better is the perfect time to be sure you are doing your skilled relaxation correctly & often enough. THEN, a year or so from now, you may be able to tolerate many of the things you now have reactions to.

Walt



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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Louise on November 06, 1998 at 11:07:56:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Robert McFerran on November 05, 1998 at 21:07:37:

Bob,

I find it very hard to quantify improvements.

The generalized arthritic-type "achiness" is gone, I have more energy (though not where I would like it) no headaches, and feel better over all, the excema is better, but still not completely clear.

So what would that be? 50-75% improvement??

I will schedule the test if you think it wise.

As for FOS, I have not noticed a reaction per se, but what is the problem with it for HG's? I have been taking it just to support the acidophilus, and as a sugar the bad beasties can't use.

Should I stop taking it?

What is the Pepto Bismol test?

Thanks again, Bob,

Louise


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Walt, you are a hero...

Posted by Louise on November 06, 1998 at 11:34:44:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Walt Stoll on November 06, 1998 at 08:40:36:

...to the many of us who have tried to broach the allopathic cartel and found it to be a jealous raging beast that will devour any opposition. All with the blessing of the government.

I am a cancer survivor who fought the system of the conventional dogma. There was nothing they could do for me, except take a knife to me.

I was diagnosed with cervical cancer when I was pregnant with my daughter. I made them wait util I delivered her (against their counsel) before I let them cut me up. I refused to even consider chemo or radiation.

They told me I would never conceive again. I did.
They told me I would never carry to full term. I did.
They told me I would never be able to deliver.
I delivered a 12 lb. 7 oz. healthy baby boy, naturally.

Had I listened to them, and followed their advice, I would be childless. Thank God I didn't.

This is why I am grateful to people like yourself, Dr.Stoll, who won't cave to the pressure of allopathic "conventional wisdom" and the threats and censure, and keep on doing what you know in your heart is the right thing to do.

You are the kind of brave, courageous, wise and good-hearted person that should be in the forefront of the battle for health.

For many of us you already are.

God bless you, Dr. Stoll.


Louise


Follow Ups:


Louise - you seem to fit into the "Hero" category too

Posted by Peter Wray on November 06, 1998 at 11:48:23:

In Reply to: Walt, you are a hero... posted by Louise on November 06, 1998 at 11:34:44:

Louise,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. You are a motivator and are a hero in my books. You had the courage to trust yourself and act on that trust.

WAY TO GO!



Could you tell me a bit about your symptoms

Posted by Peter Wray on November 06, 1998 at 12:24:32:

In Reply to: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by LOUISE on November 05, 1998 at 11:54:28:

Louise,
I'm sure there are some very early postings that tell us more about your symptoms that lead you to try the elimination diet, but I haven't been able to locate them. Woudl you mind tying this very positive outcome to your symptoms and history?

Thanks Very Much!

Peter


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Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 06, 1998 at 12:38:54:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Louise on November 06, 1998 at 11:07:56:

Louise,

Guess what? I'm like you when it comes to 'quantifying' improvement. I'd have to say that when I did the elimination diet that I cleared about 80% of my arthritic symptoms. Of course I was also taking 10 mg. of prednisone a day and 25 mgs. of methotrexate each week!

As I weaned off those meds I did find that they WERE suppressing SOME symptoms. In my case I had pretty far advanced dysbiosis (imbalance of intestinal flora). I used both the pepto-bismol and antifungals and within 6 months ALL of my blood work was normal. The problem was that by the time I discovered all this stuff I had pretty severe joint damage to about 70% of every joint in my body. So now it was hard to tell was was due to the inflammation and what was due to previous joint damage.

As far as improvement goes I can honestly say that I continue to improve (even though it is in more subtle increments) every day.

I think it's an excellent idea to have the candida immune complexes test run.

The pepto-test involves taking 4 of the pepto-bismol tablets at night right before going to bed and seeing if there is a noticable difference in you symptoms when you wake. I'll go more in depth into what I think is happening in my book but the folks that are reacting strongly to enteric toxics will feel a significant improvement. I have a protocol for pulsed doses that seems to be very effective in resolving the problem. YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE DONE TESTING FOODS BEFORE DOING THIS TEST.

Finally if you don't seem to feel that the FOS is making you more hypoglycemic then I would continue taking it -- or just use up what you have and then try a straight acidophillus/bifdus mixture without it.

Bob


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Re: FOS for Hunter Gatherers

Posted by Mike Kramer on November 06, 1998 at 16:52:14:

In Reply to: Re: Bob, here is my progress report after elim diet... posted by Robert McFerran on November 06, 1998 at 12:38:54:

Bob:
I am a hunter gatherer as confirmed by a glucose tolerance test. About 2 years ago I took FOS and it just made me more bloated and gassy. So, my anecdote confirms your observation. Any contrary anecdotes out there?
Mike





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Re: FOS for Hunter Gatherers

Posted by Kyra on November 06, 1998 at 23:56:11:

In Reply to: Re: FOS for Hunter Gatherers posted by Mike Kramer on November 06, 1998 at 16:52:14:


Dear Mike,

I'm a true H-G, and have been taking FOS for the past 3 months and have experienced what appears to be a complete conquest of the yeast beasties, along with whatever other parasites. No gas or bloating symptoms or herx reactions. I've also been taking a supplement called "Latero-flora", which is Bacillus laterosporus. The FOS and Latero-flora were recommended to me by an intuitive diagnostician/healer recommended to me by Walt.

Happy meat snacks!
Kyra




Re: Walt, you are a hero...

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 07, 1998 at 09:48:09:

In Reply to: Walt, you are a hero... posted by Louise on November 06, 1998 at 11:34:44:

Thanks, Louise.

I can always use a boost like this one!

If I had been the only one treated like this, It wouldn't be so bad. However, many hundreds of people just like me have lost their licenses for the same reasons and at least dozens are under attack right now.

Namaste` Walt




symptoms...

Posted by Louise on November 07, 1998 at 11:49:45:

In Reply to: Could you tell me a bit about your symptoms posted by Peter Wray on November 06, 1998 at 12:24:32:

Hi, Peter,

Thanks for your kind words.

I started a thread down below during the "elimination diet".

But, by way of background, I am a 44 YO ex-athlete that fell into disrepair after eating wrong for years, not listening to my body, a few accidents, and a few too many operations.

Now, the main symptoms are hypoglycemia, celiacs, arthritic knees, excema, chronic fatigue, and muscle spasms. Leaky gut and most likely a candida overgrowth.

Bob McFerran has helped tremendously, on the board and in personal email. We are quite fortunate to have him and Walt Stoll on this board, giving us their counsel pro bono.

Since I have been on the health crusade, alot of problems are alleviated by following a gluten-free, HG, type O diet.

My hypoglycemia is under control, as is the celiacs, but the arthritic knees have persisted, and the excema, along with the fatigue and muscle spasms. I am hoping to knock those out too.

I feel quite a lot better after clearing out the allergenic foods. My knees are fine, and the excema is almost clear. The fatigue is not so debilitating, but I am not where I want to be.

Long ago, in a misguided attempt at spiritual dominence over the physical, I declared war with my body. It lasted for almost twenty years. I now know better, but old habits die hard.

Competeive sports energize me, but I have to work up to it, or I end up damaging myself. I still wanrt to play like when I was in my prime, and am continously frustrated that my body won't let me. I usually push past my limits and suffer later for it. It is an ongoing attempt to listen and be kind to my body.

Patience with myself has never been a virtue of mine.

The skilled relaxation has been helping, but I find it difficult to allow myself the time to do it enough.

Actually, Peter, I am glad you asked. It is enlightening for me to admit all this. So, there it is.

The cancer probably saved my life in the long run- a very rude wake up call. Nothing like the threat of immenent death to give you a new perspective on life. I finally realized I need to take dominion over my health and love my body or might end up losing it prematurely. Thank God I realized it in time. I have kids to raise.

Again, thanks for asking.

Louise


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Re: symptoms...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 07, 1998 at 18:53:51:

In Reply to: symptoms... posted by Louise on November 07, 1998 at 11:49:45:

Louise,

I just wanted to remind you that you have just begun my protocol. After you are done testing foods we will test the supplements appropriate for your type. This often yields another 10-25% improvement. Of course we'll treat the candida if needed as well as the enteric bacteria that you might be reacting. After that you will be ready to start on the glucosamine/chondroitin. You will be shocked how much this further improves the way those knees feel. Then we will experiment by supplementing creatine monohydrate which I believe will help significantly with your endurance.

Of course the things that help the most have to be held to the last. If you started taking he chondroitin/gluscosamine and creatine now your mind/body may not be able to detect things like food sensitivities.

You've only just begun.

Bob


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Re: symptoms...

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 08, 1998 at 17:05:45:

In Reply to: symptoms... posted by Louise on November 07, 1998 at 11:49:45:

Dear Louise,

Thanks for sharing all this. You would be surprised how many others have suffered exactly as you have who are still struggling. Any who read this will be encouraged to take their health back into their own hands.

Also, listen to Bob. You have only begun to see the benefits of this path.

Namaste` Walt




Re: symptoms...

Posted by Louise on November 08, 1998 at 17:29:14:

In Reply to: Re: symptoms... posted by Robert McFerran on November 07, 1998 at 18:53:51:

Hi, Bob, et al,

As for supplementation, I have continued the glucosamine and Tyrosine -with your blessing, if you recall.

Peter D'Adamo said for O's not to take chronditin -as it is the equivelent of getting a transfusion of the wrong type of blood.

I discontinued the B vitamins during clearing, but have started them again. I have also resumed ester C (500mg).

Also tumeric and bromelien.

I have not reacted to any of it.

The chronic lower back pain and spasms have remained throughout. I think that is a seperate issue from food allergies. It is distinctly different from the arthritic pain in the knees.

The excema is clearing slowly, but I have noticed it takes about a week to manifest a reaction. What I eat today effects me next week.

I hadn't realized you wanted me to test supplements differently than food.

Louise


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Re: symptoms...

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 08, 1998 at 21:04:28:

In Reply to: Re: symptoms... posted by Louise on November 08, 1998 at 17:29:14:

Louise,

As you probably know I disagree with Dr. D'Adamo on some things, yet agree on others.

I would have to disagree with his assessment of chondroitin. I'm starting to think there is a 'chondroitin conspiracy' amoung Naturopathic physicians since they ALL pooh-pooh the condroitin. I think it all goes back to Dr. McMurray's claim that it is useless. He is a Naturopath and the president of Enzymatic Therapy -- the U.S. licensee of the patent on glucosamine sulphate.

In any experiment you want to test ONE thing at a time. I usually hold most of the supplements (especially the B's and C) until after the testing phase is over. Dr. Philpot found that amino acids, B-vitamins, and C were very effective in blocking food allergy reactions (something that you obviously don't want during the 'testing' phase).

With pre-menstrual women I like to keep them off all vitamins for the first month so that they will be better able to detect any metabolic 'cycling'.

Finally, many of the B-vitamins that were thought to be wholly beneficial (especially B-6) will cause problems for H-G's if taken in large (aove 10 mg.) quantities. Many folks are surprised when they find that they actualy do better without supplementing. Sometimes less IS more.

Bob



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