Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 12, 1998 at 21:01:02:

Robert

Could you please clarify the issue of magnesium for Hunter-
Gatherers with A+ blood? I read in a previous post that it might be contraindicated. In the past, when I've taken magnesium, I've experienced diarrhea. Could that be because it's inappropriate for my metabolism/blood type? I was going to try taking it again, as I had ordered it from NSP before reading that post. What do you think? I may be able to trade it in if I don't open it and if you can explain to me why it might be detrimental.

Thanks.


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 22:20:51:

In Reply to: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 12, 1998 at 21:01:02:

Nancy,

Blood type has nothing to do with anything as far as minerals are concerned.

Agriculturist by virtue of their vegetation intensive diets are well adapted to magnesium. Their H-G counterparts need magnesium too but just in lower amounts.

The severe depletion of magnesium in the soil means that Agriculturists will be short changed (even if they do eat the right foods) and might do well to supplement. H-G's can supplement but would require MUCH less since their major food source is fish or animal flesh (both relatively low in magnesium when compared to vegetation).

H-G's should take a trace mineral supplement and leave it at that.

Bob


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:41:46:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 22:20:51:

Bob

I get 10 mg in my multi vitamin. The Magnesium tablets that I bought are in 250 mg. Is 10 per day enough, or should I take the 250?

Thanks!

Nancy


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by gerry on November 13, 1998 at 15:42:06:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:41:46:

I've read the amount of Mg should be from 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of calcium you take. BUT I've also found that most Mg marketed is magnesium oxide, which I believe I read on this BB is useless.

What's the best form of magnesium to take?

Thanks,
gerry


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 13, 1998 at 23:39:49:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:41:46:

Nancy,

The 10 mg./day would be plenty. I would take it in the at the end of your evening meal. 250mg would be WAY too much -- especially if you took it in the morning.

Bob


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 13, 1998 at 23:44:14:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by gerry on November 13, 1998 at 15:42:06:

gerry,

Magnesium gluconate is one of the more bioavailable forms.

Don't believe the stuff tying magnesium dose to calcium dose. Calcium and phosphorous should be taken together and magnesium and potassium are another pair that work well together. Any other combinations (other than trace minerals) are next to useless.

Bob



Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 14, 1998 at 13:28:07:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 13, 1998 at 23:39:49:


Bob

Thanks. About taking it in the evening, I always take my multi vitamin with the magnesium in it at breakfast. It seems a little strange to take that at night. Is theree any reason not to take the multi at night? If not, then that's what I'll do. Why is it best to take the mg at night?

Nancy


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 14, 1998 at 15:33:07:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 14, 1998 at 13:28:07:

Nancy,

Dr. Wiley found that supplemental magnesium actually shifts your Hunter-gatherer blood plasma pH away from optimal levels. At the same time H-G's tend to experience some 'metabolic drift' during the night. This drift also takes them away from their optimal blood plasma pH.

This means that when you wake in the morning that your blood plasma pH will be FURTHEST from their optimal level. Which in turns means that you really don't want to do anything to move it in the wrong direction (i.e. -- taking large amounts of supplemental magnesium). I don't think that 10 mg. will mess up anything too much but it WOULD be more optimal in the evening with dinner since then you will be closest to your optimal blood plasma pH and metabolic optimal.

This is also the case with foods. You may be able to tolerate some of the H-G avoids like onion, garlic, etc. with your evening meal but it could generate symptoms (fatigue, headache, etc.) if you ate it for breakfast -- due to the same reasons.

The old adage 'Eat like a King for breakfast, a Prince for lunch, and a pauper for dinner certainly applies more to Hunter-gatherers and Mixed metabolic types. It would be devastating for Agriculturists.

Since metabolic drift is a real problem for folks that have inherited an EXTREME metabolism BREAKFAST WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR MOST IMPORTANT MEAL OF THE DAY. In this context I don't suggest 'important' to mean that they should eat a lot -- rather that they should eat as strickly to their metabolic regimine as possible.

If you want to cheat -- do it in the evening :)

It doesn't surprise me that most folks with chronic illness that are eating a diet mismatched to their metabolic type experience greater symptom severitiy in the morning that seems to abate as the day goes on.

Bob


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 15, 1998 at 16:42:43:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 14, 1998 at 15:33:07:

Bob

Thanks alot for that explanation. I eat my highest protein/least carbohydrate meal for breakfast, and generally feel great till lunch, between 12 & 1. Before the diet, SR, etc., I couldn't get through the day without a mid morning snack and early afternoon nap. If I "cheat", it's always at night (ice cream). Maybe I read that somewhere, or maybe it was dumb luck, but this routine is working pretty well for me, especially since I'm not 100% perfect on any of the 3 legs. Don't ask me what % I am, or I'd be embarrassed.

Now, just one more point of clarification. Is there any harm in taking that powerful multi vitamin at night, like keeping me up at night, or anything? It's Cambridge Dynavite Extra Potency with amino acid chelated minerals, which i get from my chiropractor. It's got about 35 ingredients, including 30,000 iu's of vit a, total, with beta carotene included in that.

I'm definitely going to take the Mg. back to the store. I don't think I'll be needing that. Glad I got that straight before I opened it.

Thanks so much

Nancy


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 15, 1998 at 19:51:41:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 15, 1998 at 16:42:43:

Nancy,

Unfortunately I cannot recommend the powerful vitamins that have 35 different things in them since some of the ingredients will no doubt assist your metabolism while others will hinder it.

It's just like foods. We have inherited metabolisms that needs more of certain types of foods. Because we USED to get all of our vitamins and minerals from what we ate there are certain types of vitamins/minterals that each metabolic type will require more of.

The approach of prescribing a vitamin that has everything in it except for the kitchen sink might be effective for someone that was suffering a true vitamin deficiency -- but for an EXTREME metabolic type (H-G OR Agriculturist) using that type of vitamin is the same as saying that you'll be fine if you just eat a well balanced meal. As you know from your personal experience -- nothing could be further from the truth.........

If you want to use up the rest of what your Chiro sold you, just take one in the evening ONCE A WEEK. That way it will have minimal impact on your metabolic balance and if there IS something that you are missing you'll get it.

Who knows, a little kitchen sink might be good for us every once in a while..... :)

Bob


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Atrial Fibrillation returns after 3 month hiatus

Posted by Frank C. on November 15, 1998 at 22:10:17:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 15, 1998 at 19:51:41:

Since I started taking magnesium on a daily basis 3 months ago, attacks or episodes of Atrial fibrillation stopped entirely. Yesterday, however, when I received some very bad news in the mail, an episode came on immediately and I didn't go back into sinus rhythm until this morning. The entire episode lasted 18 hours. I feel fine right now and will continue to take the magnesium supplements. Is it possible that I will have to increase my dosage of this mineral to get a better cushion against bad news? Thank you in advance for your response.



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Re: Atrial Fibrillation returns after 3 month hiatus

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 16, 1998 at 10:14:33:

In Reply to: Atrial Fibrillation returns after 3 month hiatus posted by Frank C. on November 15, 1998 at 22:10:17:

Dear Frank,

As you have learned, magnesium is but one of the easy things to do to deal with AF (or any dysrrhythmia of the heart).

I make a big deal of it here because it is an easy thing to change & is almost universally is a contributing factor to this condition.

HOWEVER, chronic stress-effect storage in the hypothalamus is just as common; it is just not so easy to resolve as the magnesium. Your experience with the "stress" certainly puts you in the catagory where you are going to have to do something about the storage to finally resolve this.

I would keep up same dose of magnesium that worked but would add practicing an effective form of skilled relaxation at least twice a day for 20 minutes.

If you need to understand this connection better, you will need to read "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier.

See the homepage for this BB to learn how to do the relaxation.

Walt




Re: Atrial Fibrillation returns after 3 month hiatus

Posted by Nancy on November 16, 1998 at 23:56:55:

In Reply to: Atrial Fibrillation returns after 3 month hiatus posted by Frank C. on November 15, 1998 at 22:10:17:

Frank

Are you a Hunter-gatherer, or an Agriculturist?



Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 17, 1998 at 00:03:13:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 15, 1998 at 19:51:41:


Bob

I'll try taking that multi once a week at night. I think that when I first started taking it several months ago, I probably did need that big boost to my system more than I do now.

I'm sure you've probably already written about this, so if you don't feel like repeating it, I'll try to find it in the archives, but what DO you recommend in the way of vitamin/mineral/herbal support for H-G with A+ blood? Will that be in your book? I'm dying to read it.

Thanks.

Nancy


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 12:07:54:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 17, 1998 at 00:03:13:

Nancy,

Here are the supplements suggested by Dr. Wiley/Watson for Hunter-gatherers. Remember this has nothing to do with blood type.........

RECOMMENDED VITAMIN/MINERAL
SUPPLEMENTS FOR HUNTER-GATHERERS

Vitamin/Mineral Full Dose
A (palmitate) 10,000 lUs
E (mixed tocopherols) 400 lUs
B12 l00mcgs
Niacinamide l00mgs
Pantothenic Acid or Calcium Pantothenate 100 mgs
Inositol 250mgs
Choline 250mgs
Calcium 5OOmgs
Phosphorous 250mgs
Iodine (derived from kelp) 0.15 mgs
Zinc l0mgs



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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 17, 1998 at 19:29:53:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 12:07:54:

Thanks alot, Bob! I don't suppose anyone makes that in one pill, do they? Might I ask where you buy your supplements? If this is a BB no-no, my email address is above in blue.

What is meant by Vitamin/Mineral full dose? No mention of Vitamin C?

Thanks again.



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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Susan Mierswa on November 17, 1998 at 21:30:28:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 12:07:54:

Bob,

Am on the road at a friend's computer and just read all the post's about H-G's and magnesium. Why is there not even a minimal amount included in this protocol ? What about the other b vitmins, selenium, manganese, etc ? Are these gotten from the organ meats ? How did Drs. Wiley and Watson arrive at these particular vitamins and their amounts ?

Thanks,

Susan


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 23:03:34:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Nancy on November 17, 1998 at 19:29:53:

Nancy,

I take 3 grams of ester-C a day and that is what I will be recommending in my book.

Full dose refers to the amount that you take. Take one full dose in the morning at the end of breakfast and the second full dose at the end of lunch.

I buy my supplements mail order from a company called NEEDS. Call them at 1-800-634-1380 and ask for a free catalog. They don't make anything -- just bulk purchase and mail order MANY of the brands that you see in your health food store.

Bob


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Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 23:11:21:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Susan Mierswa on November 17, 1998 at 21:30:28:

Susan,

Most of the other nutrients will be gained simply by eating the foods in their whole form.

Watson/Wiley tested each supplement individually. Wiley found that each supplement would drive blood plasm pH either up or down in ALL individuals. Anything that moves the blood plasma pH up will assist H-G's, anything that moves it down will assist Agriculturists.

It's not perfect but pretty darned good -- better than any other logic behind other supplementing regimines.

I do take a trace mineral supplement and recommend it (just a few drops) for all metabolic types.

Bob



Question about ester-c

Posted by trish on November 18, 1998 at 10:15:55:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 23:03:34:

Hi, Bob!

We're going to get to know each other, I hope, when I decide to go for the elmination diet in a couple of months. I know I am a hunter-gatherer (have done quite well on O diet, have hypoglycemia) So, I was interested in your list of H-G supplements...My immediate question has to do with an answer I received (to a question about ester C) on the D'Adamo board:

"My naturopath uses it onl on people who have acidic liver, as expressed by a low saliva pH reading of 6.4 or below. It is not good for someone who has a higher pH. People with acidic livers are generally really sick/toxic. In the I
would avoid using ester C if your liver is not acidic, as it is an alkaline product."

I never heard you speak of this, but I know your diets are geared toward achieving/maintaining a certain blood pH... Just wondering what you think of this..and how can an organ be considered acidic/alkaline?

thanks for all you do here, Bob.

trish


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Re: Question about ester-c

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 18, 1998 at 11:41:44:

In Reply to: Question about ester-c posted by trish on November 18, 1998 at 10:15:55:

Trish,

I have tried VERY HARD to try to understand the logic behind many Natuorpathic diagnoses. Exhausted adrenals, acidic livers, etc. are diagnoses that leave me cold. Of course there are Naturopathic 'remedies' at hand to resolve each of these conditions. Sometimes they MUST work but that really doesn't imply to me what was wrong (i.e. - acidic liver?) in the first place.

I wouldn't have embraced Dr. Wiley's pH theories so strongly (and at first I didn't) until I saw the connection between what he was seeing on a PURELY biochemical scale and what I had learned about anthropology and the origins of various foods. They dovetail VERY nicely.

Ester-C is pH neutral. Perhaps regular ascorbic acid was causing problems for folks with acidic liver (?) due to it's acid pH.

Bob


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Would aspirin also make HGs too acidic?

Posted by Mike Kramer on November 18, 1998 at 12:52:38:

In Reply to: Re: Question about ester-c posted by Robert McFerran on November 18, 1998 at 11:41:44:

Bob:

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the coming months, a doctor recommends my taking a baby aspirin every day or so. That's because I recently had a blood clot, and, so far, there is no obvious explanation of its causation (no malignancies, trauma, family history).

Would I be wrong in assuming that this would be pushing my HG pH the wrong way!

By the way, thanks for your detailed response the other day to my question about the food preservation practices of early people, and their likelihood of fasting. Your explanations seem eminently reasonable.

I apologize for posting my stuff as responses to the posts for others. But the machine I currently have available to me at work doesn't seem to have the capacity to open the "Ask Dr Stoll" page. So I go into the Day Search page. There I can read other posts and respond to them.

Thanks for all your contributions. Its been a pleasure exploring and practicing your ideas.

Mike


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Re: Would aspirin also make HGs too acidic?

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 18, 1998 at 16:37:18:

In Reply to: Would aspirin also make HGs too acidic? posted by Mike Kramer on November 18, 1998 at 12:52:38:

Mike,

Take the aspirin. I don't believe that it will have any impact whatsoever on your blood plasma pH or your metabolic balance.

Bob



Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify

Posted by Nancy on November 18, 1998 at 22:04:58:

In Reply to: Re: Magnesium for H-G's? Robert, please clarify posted by Robert McFerran on November 17, 1998 at 23:03:34:


Bob

Thanks. Ive heard they have good prices. If I get a catalog and can't figure out which brands to order, I'll email you. I assume you take some kind of food enzymes, too, right? Walt says that he does. I hope they have the ester-c, too, because that stuff is really expensive.

Nancy



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