Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Rob McF

Posted by Tony on December 11, 1998 at 23:25:40:

I noticed a post you wrote, explaining that one of the signs of the Hunter/Gatherer metabolism was getting hungry a couple of hours after breakfast if you eat, but being able to last without getting hungry if you don't eat in the morning. I have noticed this pattern my whole life, but I've tried to alter it to fit into a 'normal' eating problem. Is this a sure sign of a hunter/gatherer metabolism, or could it be something else. I do know that if I have a big breakfast, say of bacon and eggs, I can go a lot longer than if I have something 'healthy', like cereal and fruit. Then I'm starving in an hour or 2.

So I wanted to know, is it better to eat the one meal and then eat a couple of hours later, or to go without eating in the morning at all, or to maybe figure out something that will hold me over for more than a couple of hours? And is this some sign of a carbohydrate problem, or is this just how the normal, healthy hunter/gatherer needs to eat?

Thanks for any info you can give.

Sincerely,

Tony


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 01:02:53:

In Reply to: Rob McF posted by Tony on December 11, 1998 at 23:25:40:

Tony,

Here is a snippet from the Protocol section of my book:

Dr. Wiley found that approximately 85% of men and 50% of women in America possess an Agriculturist metabolism. More precisely 50% of women will have an Agriculturist metabolism at least during some part of their menstrual cycle. The metabolic nuances of metabolism in women will be discussed later in greater detail.

In many instances a 5 hour glucose tolerance test will reveal your metabolic identity. The test consists of a period of fasting (usually overnight) and then testing for a blood sugar level (or fasting blood sugar level) in the morning. The patient then drinks a sweet, glucose laden, Ďtest mealí. Glucose readings are then checked at 30 minutes, 1 hour, 1 Ĺ hours, 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours and finally 5 hours after consumption of the test meal.

A sharp rise in glucose levels followed by an abrupt drop indicates hyper-insulinism (better known as hypo-gylcemia). All individuals with this type of blood glucose curve posses a Hunter-gatherer metabolism. Many physicians will suggest that this type of blood sugar curve is abnormal and that the patient has some sort of carbohydrate intolerance. Nothing could be further from the truth. What the 5 hour glucose tolerance reveals is a metabolic identity.

(INSERT NORMAL AND HYPOGLYCEMIC CURVE HERE)

The Hunter-gatherer that is eating a diet mismatched to their inherited metabolism will experience wild ups and downs in their blood sugar levels. This sort of roller coaster ride exerts a tremendous stress on their physiology.

The dramatic drop in blood sugar levels creates hunger, fatigue, loss of strength and mental fog or confusion. Many patients will complain of feeling cold (even when itís warm) and experience urinary immediacy. In the most severe cases blood sugar can drop to dangerously low levels leading to unconsciousness. Left unattended this condition can lead to a variety of chronic illnesses, including arthritis.

The usual prescription for individuals possessing a hypoglycemic blood sugar curve has been to eat several (5-8) small meals throughout the day. Doctors suggested that these meals consist primarily of foods high in complex carbohydrates. Sugar of any kind should be avoided. The hope was that by eating meals every 2 hours or so that the blood sugar levels of the individual could be buoyed throughout the day. Recently physicians have found that relatively high protein and low complex carbohydrate diets provide more stability to the hypoglycemics blood sugar levels.

Other individuals will show an elevated fasting blood sugar that rises well above normal levels after eating. These higher levels then tend to stay elevated over time. This is called a hyper-glycemic or diabetic blood sugar curve. Normally, blood sugar levels begin to drop as the pancreas releases insulin in response to carbohydrate consumption. Physicians believe that this is caused by damage to the insulin producing cells of the pancreas. This is not always the case. Elimination of individual food allergens and the proper metabolic diet will significantly reduce or eliminate the need for supplemental insulin.

95% of all diabetics in America will possess an extreme Agriculturist metabolism. The remaining 5% were previously hypoglycemic (and therefore had inherited a Hunter-gather metabolism). The long term stress of repeated hypoglycemic swings can ultimately results in pancreatic exhaustion and a diabetic blood sugar curve.

It canít be emphasized enough that these dispositions toward a hypoglycemic or diabetic blood curve are more indicative of metabolic identity rather than abnormal carbohydrate metabolism. If diet is more properly matched to the inherited metabolic predisposition of the individual and major food allergens removed, the prominent hypoglycemic and hyperglycemic swings will not be seen. Of course if diet continues to be mismatched to inherited metabolism a disease process will ultimately ensue.

Othe


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 12, 1998 at 12:30:24:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 01:02:53:

Hi, Bob.

WONDERFUL STUFF!

I hope you are including this in your book (soon to be published?).

Namaste` Walt



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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 13:27:01:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Walt Stoll on December 12, 1998 at 12:30:24:

Hi Walt,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to send me that interview about the Paleolithic diet.

I don't know about the book and a solid publishing date. The questions that the folks here on your bulletin board routinely pose are causing me to squirm. Of course they are also helping to do a better job of writing something to meet their needs.

As I'm sure you know there is so much stuff that you have learned since that first awakening experience when you realized that you really didn't know what you THOUGHT you knew. I'm in the process of trying to provide that fill in my book.

I'm still aiming at getting the finished manuscript to a publisher this winter. With some cruddy weather and some work it might happen :)

Bob



Re: Rob McF

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 12, 1998 at 20:04:47:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 01:02:53:

Hiya Bob,

Without having ever known or understood my HG status I am a high protien, non breakfast eating, low cholesterol person.

My question is, regarding the "king/prince/peasant" idea, I have absolutely NO desire to even eat until two hours after I get up. In fact, the very thought of food during that time is revolting. At about the two hour mark I can take it or leave it but there is little chance I will be even remotely hungry until about the three hour mark. I am a person who likes things like cold pork chops or cold pizza for breakfast, vegetables and just a little meat for lunch, and whatever(and I do mean ANYTHING) is put in front of me for dinner.

How do you think I should go about my food consumption since the big breakfast thing is essentially making me uneasy to even think about?

Thanks for your input!

BTW, until you put your stuff in print, what is the best text or texts for me to get my hands on to get my feet wet on this whole subject?

Dave


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 23:03:16:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 12, 1998 at 20:04:47:

Dr. Dave,

It does sound like you fall on the heavier side of the metabolic spectrum -- but from your comments it sounds as if you might have inherited a Mixed metabolism rather than the H-G.

At any rate I'm not quite sure what to tell you about your aversion for eating 'heavier' foods earlier in the day. I had the same problem and ate very close to a vegetarian diet for some 5 years and loved every minute of it -- even though it ultimately lead to my health disaster.

My moving over to an EXTREME H-G diet happened in increments. At first I almost had to force myself to eat the required volumes and types of food. Now it's second nature.

NUTRITION AND YOUR MIND by George Watson gives a very good biochemical description of how he discovered the 3 major metabolic subsets.

BIOBALANCE by Dr. Rudolph Wiley expanded on Dr. Watson's work.

NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL DEGENERATION by Dr. Weston Price highlights a variety of native diets and the impact on health of relatively minor changes.

BRAIN ALLERGIES by Dr. Philpott describes the impact of food allergens and orthomolecular supplementation on blood sugar curves.

EAT RIGHT FOR YOUR TYPE by Dr. Peter D'Adamo introduces the impact of dietary lectins.

I should remind you that I accept the observations of all the above but not (completely) their conclusions.

Bob


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 13, 1998 at 00:16:45:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 23:03:16:

Thanks Bob!

I'll do a little research and experimentation.


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Thanks - 5 Hours!?

Posted by Tony on December 13, 1998 at 00:27:47:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Robert McFerran on December 12, 1998 at 01:02:53:

Rob,

Thanks for the info. You can wait 5 hours after breakfast? I'm lucky if I can wait longer than 3 for any meal of the day, unless I've eaten A LOT of fat in the previous meal, which in turn usually causes a lot of digestive distress.

From what you've written, it seems to me that I would fit the hunter/gatherer category - I have the sugar curve, cholesterol, and uric acid levels you describe - but I find it hard to believe that eating all of that meat and fat can be good for me. Especially since I'm a type A, and I was trying to basically follow the ER4YT diet. Now I'm more confused than ever.

But I do appreciate the help.

Tony


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Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!?

Posted by Joseph Hackett on December 13, 1998 at 12:47:08:

In Reply to: Thanks - 5 Hours!? posted by Tony on December 13, 1998 at 00:27:47:

Tony - I recently posted my experience as a person with Type A blood who is on the Hunter-Gatherer diet. For me, this diet has been a great thing. The previous post is below...
__________________________________________________________

I have primarily been a "lurker" on this board, although I follow the posts here regularly and continue to learn from them. Dr. Stoll, I admire your persistance and am glad you're here.

From time to time I have seen posts concerning the ER4YT diet versus the "biobalance"/blood plasma ph approach and I'd like to put in my 2 cents for people to consider.

For the past year, I have had the good fortune to work with Bob McFerran in treating my severe rheumatoid arthritis. I have seen tremendous progress (I have no noticable inflammation and take no traditional arthritis medicine. I do still take an anti-fungal as I had huge candida overgrowth). I have also added skilled relaxation with biofeedback and exercise in the last several months. Improvements continue to come although they are coming slower than before.

I have been on the Hunter-Gatherer diet since last Thanksgiving. Of course this means I'm eating meat (much of it fatty steaks, pork chops, etc.) 3 times a day. At 41 years of age, I have absolutely no weight problems (was fairly trim before and even more so now), have had 1 cold in the past year (after years of colds/allergies several times per year), no sugar/carbohydrate cravings and in general have better energy and feel "pretty darned good."

Also, I've also noticed that my cholesterol levels/ratios have improved slightly over the course of the past year. For ER4YT advocates, this may not be seen as a significant event for people with type O blood like Bob, but I am type A...

As I understand, according to the ER4YT diet, I should be on a very light diet, just about the opposite of what has worked for me.

Not saying that the ER4YT diet doesn't help many people because I'm sure it does, but in my experience, people should not throw out the HG diet based on their blood type. I have to admit that it was a little scary starting this diet because of all the information out there about heart disease and meat consumption, but once positive results started coming in, I lost those concerns.

In my experience, the biobalance/blood plasma ph approach works regardless of your type...


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Lori Zitzmann on December 13, 1998 at 14:12:29:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 13, 1998 at 00:16:45:

A very huge, grateful THANK-YOU to Bob McF for pointing me in the right direction. After running a very difficult elimination diet trial, I discovered food allergen triggers of all gluten grains, and all dairy. Also a H-G metabolism. Eating fatty meats, fish, and veggies, mostly high purine, has allowed me to become eczema free for the first time in seven years, in just two weeks time! Also, my energy level is approaching my "pre CFS diagnosis levels" (over two years ago). Weight is not an issue for me (I've always been thin, no matter what I ate). I'm learning to enjoy the liver and eggs breakfasts, as well. I can also go five hours now before lunch, I used to want to eat every 2-3, and felt self-conscious about it. When will your book be out? I'm reading all the other ones you suggested now. Just wanted you (and others) to know that your ideas have helped me regain my life (and health). I'm currently in graduate school for Nurse Practitioner (been an RN for 20 yrs) and hope to eventually help others through nutritional interventions. Thanks again for your good work.


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 13, 1998 at 14:22:32:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Lori Zitzmann on December 13, 1998 at 14:12:29:

Lori,

Thanks for your testimonial. I 'can' go five hours without food after breakfast but prefer not to :).

Have you explored the vitamin/mineral supplements yet? I think that you will find that adding creatine monohydrate will give you even longer lasting energy.

You should also have the Candida Immune complexes test run to rule out candida overload as this might also be a competing problem.

You are also ready to run the 'pepto-bismol' test.

Once you've shown negative to both of the above I'm confident that you will only improve with each day.

As far as the book goes I'm working to finish the manuscript in the next couple of months. I'm want to develop an inter-active web site like this one to coincide with publishing.

Bob



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Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!?

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 13, 1998 at 14:32:22:

In Reply to: Thanks - 5 Hours!? posted by Tony on December 13, 1998 at 00:27:47:

Tony,

I know almost as many type O's that are really Agriculturists as type A's that possess a Hunter-gatherer metabolism. Net effect is my personal conclusion that blood type does not reflect inherited metabolic needs 100% of the time.

You can go to Dr. D'Adamo's web site and ask if he thinks that blood type correctly suggests metabolic needs 100% of the time. I think he will say no.

There is a definate correlation between blood type and metabolic type, but what good is a correlation if you are one of the folks that the correlation doesn't fit?

If your logic doesn't remove your confusing let your body/mind make the decision by testing the various diets. The one that yields the most energy will give you the answer.

Bob


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Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!?

Posted by Thanks again - The Balance on December 13, 1998 at 21:59:54:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!? posted by Robert McFerran on December 13, 1998 at 14:32:22:

Rob,

Thanks again. I think I'll start trying other diets. By the way, I happened to see a new book in the store today called The Balance, and it is a health/diet book based on 3 metabolic types - fast, slow, and mixed. They give a 50 question test for you to decide which type you are. I won't keep talking about it since you're probably familiar with it. But just in case you're not, the website is www.thebalance.com.

Tony



Thanks again - The Balance

Posted by Tony on December 13, 1998 at 22:01:03:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!? posted by Robert McFerran on December 13, 1998 at 14:32:22:

Rob,

Thanks again. I think I'll start trying other diets. By the way, I happened to see a new book in the store today called The Balance, and it is a health/diet book based on 3 metabolic types - fast, slow, and mixed. They give a 50 question test for you to decide which type you are. I won't keep talking about it since you're probably familiar with it. But just in case you're not, the website is www.thebalance.com.

Tony



Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!?

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 14, 1998 at 08:43:25:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks - 5 Hours!? posted by Joseph Hackett on December 13, 1998 at 12:47:08:

Dear Joseph,

Thanks for your testimonial. You are right! All who are actually reversing the causes of their chronic condition, see faster results in the beginning & slower, though progresively increasing, results for years thereafter till they are healthier than their so called "healthy" friends.

I hope you will continue to share your experiences with the BB participants. There are lots of people out there who still find it hard to believe that their trusted "docs" are not telling them about all of their options.

Namaste` Walt




Re: Rob McF

Posted by Lori Zitzmann on December 14, 1998 at 20:03:42:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Robert McFerran on December 13, 1998 at 14:22:32:

I'm not sure what you mean by the peptobismol test. Or by exploring supplements. My naturopath recently suggested I begin a "permeability formula", with L-Glutamine, among other things, in it. It is expensive, but supposed to speed healing of LGS. Other than this, I take Calcium Hydroxyapatite, C, B, and GLA. Also a probiotic. Thanks again for your input.


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Re: Rob McF

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 14, 1998 at 23:17:35:

In Reply to: Re: Rob McF posted by Lori Zitzmann on December 14, 1998 at 20:03:42:

Lori,

There are specific supplement (vitamin/mineral) recommendations for each of the three broad metabolic types.

I've found that Hunter-gatherers can extend their endurance with creatine monohydrate. L-glutamine is also o.k. for H-G's. They don't have to be expensive either. I'm sure I have a source that is easier on the wallet than the custom permeability formula you mentioned.

The pepto-bismol test consists of taking 4 tablets right before retiring and comparing how you feel upon arising the next morning with the way you usually feel. Many people will feel MUCH improved -- and that is an indication of a problem with gram negative bacteria that can be resolved by taking the pepto tabs on a pulsed dosing schedule.

Bob



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