Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

pH balancing

Posted by Sam on January 11, 1999 at 11:40:28:

Dear Walt and others:
Wondering if you could discuss the importance or lack thereof of keeping pH levels(for urine and saliva) in balance. I would imagine keeping PH values around normal would make the system inhospitable to parasites?
From my understanding:
UrinePH 6.1-6.5 is a normal range
SalivaPH 6.7-7 is a normal range

Questions:
1. When is the best time to take readings
2. Where can you purchase PH strips of that accuracy
3. what supplements (or even lemon juice) would be important in cases where urine or saliva PH readings were above or below desired norms.
Some info I have says that:
Urine below 6-take Ester C
Urine between 6.5-7.2- take Quercitin or Zinc with A&C; or Vit C ANY OF ABOVE WITH coenzyme B6

Saliva 6.6 or below-a sodium/potassium bicarbonate or a Tea called body rescue
Saliva 7.1-7.5 juice of 1/2 lemon
Saliva 7.5 and above juice of one lemon
Other supplements suggested were based on products offered thru a nutritional program in WI called Vital Living Center.
Thanks,
Sam




Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Mary Jackson on January 11, 1999 at 11:52:33:

In Reply to: pH balancing posted by Sam on January 11, 1999 at 11:40:28:

Hi Sam,

I use Pike Agri-Labs pH test paper (comes in a roll and was about $5--the postage is about that too unfortunately). You could e-mail them and find out about it. One roll lasts a LONG time. They have a site at http://www.maine.com/tse/pals/
This was recommended to me by a naturopath.
Mary J.



Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walat Stoll on January 12, 1999 at 12:51:36:

In Reply to: pH balancing posted by Sam on January 11, 1999 at 11:40:28:

HI, Sam.

I am not an expert on this. I have read enough to know that it is important but that is about all. I am sure that there are others on the BB who know a lot more than I do about this and hope they come out of the woodwork for both of us to learn.

Bob McFerran would know at least something about this.

Walt




Re: pH balancing

Posted by Robert McFerran on January 12, 1999 at 18:25:07:

In Reply to: pH balancing posted by Sam on January 11, 1999 at 11:40:28:

Sam,

I have looked extensively at the pH phenomenon in humans.

I've found nothing useful or meaningful in measuring saliva, or urine pH. I know that Naturopathic Physicians have tried to discern correlations using these pH values.

I have found something VERY meaningful in the measurement of venous blood plasma pH's.

If you want to pursue this you should buy BIOBALANCE by Dr. Rudolph Wiley.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Mary Jackson on January 13, 1999 at 10:06:57:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Robert McFerran on January 12, 1999 at 18:25:07:

Hi Robert,

Aren't these blood plasma pH tests sort of scarcer than hen's teeth and very expensive? Some time ago I did find a lab that does such a test, but it wasn't so accessible. Do you think the salivary/urinary pH testing is totally useless or just somewhat useful? BTW, how is Nick doing? Mary J.


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Robert McFerran on January 13, 1999 at 10:21:35:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Mary Jackson on January 13, 1999 at 10:06:57:

Mary,

Personally I don't find the salivary pH or urinary tests valuable. I've read what they are supposed to suggest but the logic is convoluted at best.

You are quite right about trying to get the blood plasma pH testing done. I've done it and it isn't easy. Certainly it's not something that can be sent out to a local lab. In other words I'm not suggesting that folks try to get their venous plasma pH tested to tell them their metabolic subset.

My sister and her husband are working with Dr. Stoll to try and resolve Nicky's juvenile diabetes. There was an immediate improvement when major food allergens were eliminated from his diet. Then there was another obvious improvement as Nicky moved to a true whole foods diet. Further improvement was noted as the diet was steered to something that matched his Mixed metabolism. The final improvement and healing will probably come with the resolution of his candidiasis problem -- which in my experience usually takes 6 months to resolve.

Bob

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Sherri Russo on January 13, 1999 at 22:33:39:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Mary Jackson on January 13, 1999 at 10:06:57:

Thanks for asking about Nicky. It's been almost 3 months since his diabetes diagnosis, and we've found our way to a whole foods diet (only food that has been alive lately) that totally omits milk (and milk products), corn and wheat (and any sort of grain...we do allow white rice, though). We used his blood sugar readings and an elimination diet to discover what works best for him. When he left the hospital, he was on 17 units of insulin a day; right now he takes less than 5 units (he weighs 48 lbs). His pediatric endicronologist says that he is in a "honeymoon" period, although I have never heard of a 3 year old with such a pattern--and she seemed to discount the fact that processed food (even a rice cake!) would skyrocket him right out of the "honeymoon".
The diet is a challenge, but the reward of not worrying so much about insulin reactions (and not having the wild high-low swings) is well worth the time and difficulty. Also, he is doing much better emotionally and intellectually, difficult for me to think this is only due to more stable blood sugars.
Our goal is for Nicky to become "food dependent" and not "insulin dependent", or at least as insulin-independent as possible. There is a fellow named Robert Cohen who wrote an interesting book titled "Milk, the Deadly Poison" that claims to have reversed type 1 diabetes in 3 infants simply by avoiding milk (and anything with caseine as an ingredient), artificial sweetners and soda pop. He is currently running a study in a New York hospital with a large group of children to try and prove it works. Antibody tests showed that Nicky has a strong gluten sensitivity, and his pancreatic beta cell was negative (although his GAD antibody was positive, 3.4 where >1 indicates positive). We're hoping that he's young enough that we can turn this antibody attack around with diet and yeast treatment.
Do you also have a child with diabetes? We have yet to find anyone using a strong dietary approach--maybe because it is so difficult, seems that everyone wants to give Nicky the wrong food and drink...even at the JDF meetings, they serve diet Coke and diet Sprite! Best regards to you.


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 14, 1999 at 09:48:04:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 13, 1999 at 22:33:39:

Hi, Sherri,

Why the "white rice"? It is the same as sugar so far as candida is concerned and nearly as bad for diabetes as sugar. What would be the big deal about switching to brown rice?

Namaste` Walt



Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 14, 1999 at 09:53:14:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Robert McFerran on January 13, 1999 at 10:21:35:

Hi, Bob.

I am not an expert in this since it has been more than 30 years since I have had to do one. However, my memory tells me that blood pH has to be done IMMEDIATELY upon collection. Is that not true? Just the metabolism of the living blood rapidly changes the pH. The fact that the Red Cross can collect blood for transfusion should tell all of us how long blood stays alive after drawing it. Without the kidneys and the lungs to keep the pH stable.............

Walt



Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Sherri Russo on January 14, 1999 at 12:10:56:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Walt Stoll on January 14, 1999 at 09:48:04:

Walt, we tried the brown rice first but it raised his blood sugar really high. I don't know why, maybe because of the lectin in the hull of the rice; maybe the hull is an irritant like the gluten is. At any rate, he doesn't like rice as well as potatoes, we just give the rice as a variation from the parsnips, potatoes and chestnuts. Do you know of another high carbohydrate vegetable he might like? Potatoes -- with the skins on -- and parsnips seem to do the less harm to his blood sugar, but I'm concerned about him developing a food allergy to these if we give them too often. Thanks, Sherri


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Robert McFerran on January 14, 1999 at 12:17:14:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Walt Stoll on January 14, 1999 at 09:53:14:

Walt,

In order to get an ACCURATE venous blood plasma pH you have to take the measurement within 5 minutes after centrifuging the blood sample.

It takes a rather large blood sample, a pH meter specifically designed with accuracy to the .001 of each pH unit and of course a lab technician that knows what they are doing.

I still prefer folks trying the different diets to FEEL the effect on their mind/body. It's the same as experiencing withdrawal and clearing and then the hyper-acute reaction when re-introducing an allergic food. Someone can tell you to eat a certain type of diet and exclude certain foods BUT if you actually feel the effect it will give folks the volition to not only make the changes -- but to accept them as a reality of their lives.

Bob




Re: pH balancing/caseine

Posted by Robin Pollan on January 14, 1999 at 18:13:40:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 13, 1999 at 22:33:39:

Sherri,

Did you read my message a while back about Florence Griffith Joyner? The guy who wrote the article said that she died as a result of an allergic reaction to casein. He said that it caused her lungs to fill up with mucous and she could not breathe and died. I will try to put a link to the article, if it does no work that address is:

www.antidairycoalition.com/111598.html

Robin


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 15, 1999 at 13:19:47:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 14, 1999 at 12:10:56:

Hi, Sherri,

His body is still the best laboratory for what is good for him. You are exactly right for making these choices on the basis of what that laboratory tells you.

Have you tried amaranth, quinoa, etc., etc.?

Walt



Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Sherri Russo on January 16, 1999 at 23:00:28:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Walt Stoll on January 15, 1999 at 13:19:47:

Walt, it seems that all grains irritate him a bit. He doesn't like quinoa but he does like amaranth, but it seemed to again raise his blood sugar too high. I don't know if it could be cross-contamination with wheat or what. At any rate, I definitely plan to try again with grains --and beans-- in the future. For whatever reason, his intestinal tract can't seem to handle them right now.
I did bake him some acorn squash today, that seemed to have good results. It has some carbohydrate, but not enough to get rid of ketones--our biggest battle with his whole foods diet is keeping him out of ketosis. So far, the best thing we've found to get rid of ketones is to feed him chestnuts (picked from trees, peeled, boiled and ground).
Thanks for your input, Sherri



Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing/caseine

Posted by Sherri Russo on January 16, 1999 at 23:10:56:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing/caseine posted by Robin Pollan on January 14, 1999 at 18:13:40:

Amazing, isn't it? I'm surprised at how much better I feel now that I've stopped drinking milk. The great thing about the anti-dairy coalition is that they also try to show how the milk sold in stores (even the organic kind) isn't fit to be food.
A couple of months ago a farmer gave us some fresh milk from his cow, milked that morning. We boiled it for 10 minutes then drank some--the most we could tolerate was about 1/4 of a cup! It was good, but so rich, and SO different from that sold in stores. It was more like a dessert. In fact, that is probably how milk should be consumed (if at all), as (or in) an occasional dessert (at most, once a week).
Hindsight is 20/20, I guess. Wish I would have heard about Robert Cohen (or the anti-dairy coaltion) earlier.
Regards, Sherri



Re: pH balancing

Posted by Mary Jackson on January 17, 1999 at 01:02:21:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 13, 1999 at 22:33:39:

Hi Sherri,

I just noticed that you posted here. I think you are doing GREAT with Nicky and are certainly taking the right approach. I hate what I call the "stick it and love it" approach and mentality, so tell the doctors what you honestly think if you can. My daughter is 14 and seems addicted to milk, so that probably tells you something. Milk is not the whole picture though in my opinion, but part of the whole scenario. Yes, grains have a higher glycemic response. Rice cakes are the worst. I think the glycemic index is 130 or something. Chana dal is the lowest at 15 or so. Susannah has been diabetic her whole life. At my son's recent wedding she wore no make-up (accidentally) and her hair simply pulled back and was totally glowing as a bridesmaid. She's a special spirit as I'm sure Nicky is also. I'll be standing by to here more about him. He's lucky you all care so much to refine his care to the point that you have. Mary J.


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 17, 1999 at 10:57:50:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 16, 1999 at 23:00:28:

Hi, Sherri.

It is not unusual that a tyke in his shoes would be over-reactive to ALL grains. Fortunately, as he gets healthier, this will not last forever (it could last a year, though, and during that year it would be important to TOTALLY eliminate those you want him to stop reacting to).

Why, without his sugar being high, are ketones bad? Diabetes is as much a disease of fat metabolism as it is a disease of sugar metabolism and that will be in all the journals soon. Ketones are particles of broken down fats that are not being totally utilized. Look into Udo Erasmus' work on ths subject of "Fats & Oils Metabolism".

If it were me, I would not worry until his ketones get to a 3+.

The chestnuts are a real discovery. My guess is that there are other things out there if you get to try a lot of different things.

Walt




Re: pH balancing

Posted by Sherri Russo on January 18, 1999 at 15:02:28:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Mary Jackson on January 17, 1999 at 01:02:21:

Thanks for your comments Mary, it's nice to know another mother that has managed to cope with her child's diabetes in a positive way. Sometimes it gets depressing, Nicky saw a cartoon on tv where kids were eating chocolate pie so he's been begging for that all day...I can only imagine how difficult it is to convince them to keep a good diet as your child ages, but how important it is too.
As for the causes of diabetes in children, I also doubt that milk is the major cause, as statistics here indicate that diabetes in children under 10 years old has DOUBLED in the last 10 years. I hardly think that children today drink more milk than they used to 10 years ago; although it is true that the milk they consume is more likely to contain antibiotics, which could influence candida growth. And I also wonder if baby formula contained corn and wheat 20 years ago.
Another thing that makes me suspicious is processed food, like pasta. In the last ten years families have begun to eat much more pizza and pasta, whereas when I grew up it was meat and potatoes. And, being married to an Italian, I know that when a child in Italy begins to have problems with hypoglycemia they immediately check for "gluten sensitivity" and immediately place the child on a diet excluding pasta, bread and pizza. Here the doctor says not to worry ("it is too difficult to change the diet") unless the child has true celiac disease, which can only be determined by a small bowel biopsy. In Italy the government regulary screens for gluten antibodies in children at age 2 and again at age 6, and about 1 child in 250 has them. Since these children are immediately "caught" and placed on strict dietary regimens, they don't go on to develop many of the awful autoimmune disease you see here; in fact, only 1 in 3000 develops diabetes (here it is about 1 in 300). Of course, the government has an incentive to do the early testing: if it can turn around the problem at an early stage, it doesn't have to pay for a lifetime of insulin, syringes, test strips, meters, even food. That's right, a diabetic in Italy receives his medicine and all those supplies--even diabetic food!-- without paying, thanks to the government-supplied health care.
For us, it is a major incentive to return to live in Italy. Right now, we pay $370 per month just to be insured for a family of 3, over $100 per month for supplies, $2000 for the trip to the hospital when he was diagnosed. If he should have severe vomiting, that means another trip to the hospital to replace liquids (so his blood sugar doesn't drop too low) and I'm afraid to see how much our monthly insurance will go up just because he's been diagnosed diabetic. But as long as the economic burden of disease rests solely on the backs of the diseased, there will be no effort to do the necessary screening to avoid horrible problems in the future. (I remember so clearly our doctor telling us "Gee, they don't know what causes type I diabetes, but it's doubled in the last 10 years. A real shame, isn't it." Shame on WHO?!!) A disease that "is not your fault, nothing you could have done would have avoided it coming", but of course one that you and your child are stuck paying for, economically, physically and emotionally for the rest of your lives.
We are so disgusted with the fact that this country cannot seem to provide some basic level of health care for all its citizens, which might enable more government spending of our taxes on prevention (for example, even Ireland does this gluten antibody testing on ALL children. Our doctors resisted doing it, even after he was diagnosed diabetic!) Seems that when Clinton was supporting national health care, there were several attempts on his life, even a small airplane crashing underneath his window! I guess he just gave up, even though health care is still the most important issue to Americans. Wonder how these hospitals and insurance companies...like Blue Cross and Blue Shield, managed to go from not-for-profit to for-profit without people thinking they were up to something??
I'd better get off my soapbox and back to work.
--Sherri


Follow Ups:


Re: pH balancing

Posted by Mary Jackson on January 18, 1999 at 15:43:50:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 18, 1999 at 15:02:28:

Hi Sherri,

Thanks for your great letter about Italy, etc. This country is really primitive. They do the anti-transglutaminase test for celiac problems at the U. of Colorado in Denver as part of the DAISY program about diabetes in the young (I had noticed an Italian lab website on the anti-transglutaminase test and how I know why!). I have had some contact with a doctor there in Colorado. They seem however oblivious to candida even if they are getting the gluten connection. Susie's doctor says her high candida levels (I got the her testing done outside my HMO) are due to her high blood sugars, but I've been trying to show familial connections. My candida test however came out to be the top of the normal limit, so I'm managing to keep it at non-pathological levels at any rate. Susie's IS pathological, but her doctor won't treat it, because the AAL Reference Labs candida immune complexes test is not a familiar and acceptable test to him, so I'm on my own there. BTW there is a chain happening between chocolate, yeast, acetaldehyde and dopamine, so that could explain the chocolate cravings.

All this seems to me to be involved with a downgraded digestion which can be based in heredity with Scottish and Irish genes (how about McFerran?) and the famine adaptation, and it also appears to be a complication of mercury poisoning with the liver enzymes being blocked by the mercury which result in less "dehalogenation" from thyroid T4 to T3. This would occur with the mother of the child with metabolic problems in my speculation and how things start developing. I have noticed quite a few moms of diabetics with extensive dental work. I have misaligned skullbones too (I worked through that with Walt once) from a birth injury. Hope this all isn't too confusing.

Anyway, more later (at the top of the website--this is getting kinda far down). I'm researching the potassium-sodium balance at the moment. Thanks for writing--I'm sure we'll get somewhere with this meeting of the minds! Mary Jackson




Re: pH balancing

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 19, 1999 at 16:57:17:

In Reply to: Re: pH balancing posted by Sherri Russo on January 18, 1999 at 15:02:28:

Dear Sherri,

Talk to your brother about this note. Remember that EVERYTHING effects everything else. The overwhelming stress-effect described in my book causes peoples' systems to react completely differently to stressors than they did only 50 years ago----and things are rapidly getting worse.

The exact same level of dairy now would cause very different problems than it did just 10 years ago.

Walt




Return to Dr Stoll Home Page

Post a Message

Main Archives Page

More Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives