Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Day Two of Elimination Diet

Posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 08:38:22:

The nausea was really bad last night so Linda had some soda water before I was able to read your response Robert. She will not have any more until you feel it is OK to try. I don't imagine this messed things up too badly.

The shoulder pain is much better this morning but the nausea is still there big time.

She had trout and veggies for breakfast. I am impressed with her dedication so far.

Do you still feel the nausea is a food sensitivity or more related to the constipation?

Both of these symptoms came on literally overnight following 4 doses of antibiotics (that we now know weren't needed).

Thanks

Peter


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Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet

Posted by Robert McFerran on January 23, 1999 at 09:43:27:

In Reply to: Day Two of Elimination Diet posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 08:38:22:

Peter,

Usually withdrawl starts close to the end of the first day of the elimination diet with headache or fatigue. It intensifies the next couple of days with more headache, fatigue, muscle and joint pain, and even low grade fever -- all in all very similar to flu-like symptoms.

I have seen nausea too but the onset here might point more to the antibiotics and the Herximer-like reaction whenever she takes them. Remember most antibiotics are broad spectrum enought to kill a lot of gut flora and release the enteric toxin product of this kill through her leaky intestinal mucosa and into the bloodstream. These toxin and the resulting reaction to the body often create nausea.

Of course there are lots of other factors at play here including just being emotionally upset about the idea of having to give up foods that you love. Depression can really intensify during withdrawal. Even after experiencing clearing and the physical and mental improvements that come with it some folks will have a very strong sense of loss. They feel that they have to give up one more thing that they love (eating and the social aspect of eating out).

Bob


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Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet

Posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 13:09:21:

In Reply to: Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet posted by Robert McFerran on January 23, 1999 at 09:43:27:

I think one of the big questions for Linda right now is regarding the nausea. I understand the connection between the antibiotics and the die-off reaction, but Linda had the antibiotics three months ago. She arrived back from Vancouver on a Sunday, was diagnosed with tonsilitis on Monday and had one dose of antibiotics Monday evening, then three more on Tuesday. Wednesday morning the nausea and constipation hit big time and has never gone away completely.

Is it possible that this could be an on-going herximer reaction?

She has eaten reasonably well, but was not close to a perfect whole food diet during that time period.

Also of interest here was a severe yeast infection about a month after the antibiotics and she now believes she is getting another one.

Her mainstream GP has largely ignored the nausea and constipation and just wants her to take anti-depressants. Her basicly believes that Linda has a few minor aches and pains that everyone experiences, but her's are exagerated by her depression. I'm sure that is not a new story for you.

Thanks

Peter


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Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet

Posted by Robert McFerran on January 23, 1999 at 19:26:39:

In Reply to: Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 13:09:21:

Peter,

Dr. Stoll will be able to give you a much more definative answer but I'm going to suggest that perhaps her nausea is due to the rapid overgrowth (beyond her already existing Candida related syndrome) of yeast. Did the doc check her mouth for signs of thrush?

If you have any nystatin around I'd start using it immediately.

As far as the depression goes I've had the opportunity to experience it firsthand about a year after I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I'll never forget that my wife came with me for my appointment with my rheumatologist. I was at the end of the line medication-wise. My doctor refused to prescribe any more powerful drugs since my body was on the edge of toxicity. My wife told the doc how terribly depressed that I was and he looked at me and asked "Bob, do you think you are depressed?" I looked at my wife in surprise since that was the first time she mentioned the way SHE felt about the way I was behaving. I looked back at the doctor and exclaimed "No!", then looking at the concern on their faces I restrained myself and said "Well, I guess I might be, but nothing beyond being depressed at being 33 years old and disabled and crippled. I do think the constant pain does wear me down a bit".

There was a long silence and my doc said "I'll be happy to write you a prescription for some Prozac and some pain killers. They should help." My immediate impulse was to say no but out of the corner of my eye I could see that my wife was fighting back tears. I patted my hand on her leg and said "sure John, let's give them a try".

I took the prescriptions but as you might guess, never had them filled........

Bob



Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll

Posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 20:54:59:

In Reply to: Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 13:09:21:

Robert and I have been corresponding regarding Linda's shot at the elimination diet, but Robert suggested that you may be better able to address the nausea issue in the previous message.

One person suggested it could be a spastic gall bladder.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Peter


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Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 24, 1999 at 10:53:03:

In Reply to: Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll posted by Peter Wray on January 23, 1999 at 20:54:59:

Dear Peter,

I have been following your communications with Bob all along. I have not jumped in because I think that there is a real possibility that the elimination diet could resolve the nausea eventually.

ALSO, although I do not think I should have used THIS excuse (considering the open mind you have shown so far--except for the fact that Nancy is NOT so open) I will share with you now that she could likely get rid of it at once if she would learn self-hypnosis. Since she has been so resistant to practicing SR, I "knew" that she would be just as resistant to seeing a self-hypnosis instructor.

YOU can decide how valid my reservations were (and still are). I should not have held that to myself since it is HER responsibility as to whether she wants to get rid of this, not mine.

Surely, this "could" be a sluggish gall bladder. That is one of the common complications of LGS. SO, what if tests confirm that? I am sure she can find a surgeon who would be delighted to remove it for her. This would be one more "tip" of the iceberg gone but would do nothing for her causes and likely would do nothing for her nausea either.

Just this week there was a note on this BB about the problems that can occur after the gall bladder has been removed. The likelyhood is that those post surgical complications would not be controlled by self-hypnosis.

I think this is RELATED to her depression. In the end, the only permanent resolution to any of these connected symptoms is SR. Have you seen the wonderful note about "SR or Die. 'PEOPLE.' " yesterday?

Good luck! Walt



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Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll

Posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 12:08:37:

In Reply to: Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll posted by Walt Stoll on January 24, 1999 at 10:53:03:

Thanks for jumping in Walt. I imagined that you were "lurking", but Robert does such a great job that I imagine much of the time your input would be "I agree".

I think Linda is just too physically and emotionally exhausted right now and overwhelmed for her to be able to tackle the SR. She has found a very good phychiatrist who is unfortunately not back until mid-February. Linda will pursue the SR with her and I'll mention the self-hypnosis too.

She is struggling right now with fear that she has cancer and that while the elimination diet may be helpful for arthritis, it won't help with the nausea and bowel problems. In fact, it seems to have helped with the joint an muscle pain already.

She is looking for an explanation of how LGS could be causing the constipation and nausea. I've tried to give my explanation with what I've learned, but coming from others who are more knowledgable may be helpful.

She is really struggling to day to stay with the elimination diet, but so far she has done it. We're almost halfway through (easy for me to say - I just had vegetable soup [one of Beth's recipies] and I confess an Oreo).

Thanks for the support.

Peter


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Self-Hypnosis

Posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 12:11:06:

In Reply to: Re: Day Two of Elimination Diet - A Question for Dr. Stoll posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 12:08:37:

Forgot to ask in my last posting. Could you tell me more about how self-hypnosis can deal with the nausea?

Thanks

Peter


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Re: Self-Hypnosis

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 25, 1999 at 10:34:20:

In Reply to: Self-Hypnosis posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 12:11:06:

Dear Peter,

I am not sure that ANYONE understands how self-hypnosis works but there is NO DOUBT that it does. It is perhaps the most effective of ANY approach to things that have been shown ot have no physical cause (and MANY symptoms that do have physical cause).

One interesting study, on the ski slopes of Colorado, demonstrated that the more pain that was present (from freshly broken limbs) the better the self-hypnosis worked. ANYONE would admit that there was physical cause for THAT pain.

Remember, that aspirin was used for at least 200 years before we had ANY idea how it worked. We are just now beginning to learn how it does even some of its effects.

Anyone who is suffering, who uses the fact that we don't know how self-hypnosis works, as an excuse for not learning this skill, simply has not suffered enough yet.

At this point, her chronic stress-effect storage is being aggravated by her fear of "cancer". It is likely that only the studies SHE can except, that would "prove" to her that no one can find a cancer, would make any difference. Unfortunately, exhaustive studies will be VERY uncomfortable and VERY expensive AND just add extra stress to her problem.

That is not to say that she should not have them done IF there is any real chance that she will stop adding to her stress by worrying about cancer by having them. I was under the understanding that she had been evaluated by a number of physicians already.

I know that this is a lot more than you asked for with this question. However, she has nothing to lose by doing this and a lot to gain. Of course, that has been the case with SR all along as well. If only there was a pill for stubborness.

One of the nice things about SR, for chronically ill people, is that it takes little energy. It is just a discipline.

Walt




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