Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Intellectualizing about food testing

Posted by Johnelle on March 07, 1999 at 18:30:54:

Bob, Walt, Sara, Denise, etc.

Didn't I read somewhere that you shouldn't test a new food
any closer than four hours from the last new food? So does
it stand to reason we could squeeze another new food in if
we ate at, say, 8, 12, 4 and 8? I'd almost set the alarm to
get up in the middle of the night to test something new! :o)

Also, since my class has yet to be determined as either H-G
or Ag., can I float over and try a few of the Ag. core
foods?

I didn't see strawberries mentioned anywhere on the H-G
lists. Can I try them? And what about onions? Though they
are on the "avoid" list, the explanation was that they may
generate symptoms. I've never cared for raw onions, but I
sure would like to have added just a few of them to my
omelette this a.m. of eggs, zucchini and mushrooms. I also
had a pan-fried chicken thigh and half a nectarine with
almond butter (both previously tested). Fruit and almond
butter is my new favorite (and only) dessert! Is it okay to
have that little amount of fruit? I felt great all morning.

And what about spices, did you say to test them
individually, starting with the core/supplement


Follow Ups:


Re: Intellectualizing about food testing

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 07, 1999 at 21:15:52:

In Reply to: Intellectualizing about food testing posted by Johnelle on March 07, 1999 at 18:30:54:

Johnelle,

Since I think that you are Mixed you should indeed test the secondary foods from the Mixed diet (which happen to be the recommend foods on Dr. Wiley's Agriculturist diet). You should pay attention to trying to blend the primary and secondary foods in an approximate 2:1 ratio.

If you don't have a reaction within 4 hours you can test another food. You could test 6 foods a day I guess if you really wanted. Of course the notable exceptions are milk and grains.

You should give your older lady friend ample notice that she might have a fairly severe withdrawal. The folks with multiple chemical sensitivities tend to have VERY leaky guts and usually several food sensitivities.

Strawberries and onions are Hunter-gatherer Avoids and Agriculturist Recommends. Since you are probably a Mixed type you should try and add them in the ratios I described above and see what happens. Strawberries have LOTS of pesticides so if you react it may be to the strawberry or the stuff on them which cannot be rinsed off.

Bob


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Re: Intellectualizing about food testing (ATTN: Bob)

Posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 08:19:20:

In Reply to: Re: Intellectualizing about food testing posted by Robert McFerran on March 07, 1999 at 21:15:52:

Bob,

I was just curious - when I asked you just three days ago if more than three foods could be tested in one day, you said "three foods per day is the limit."

Is it different for Johnelle because you suspect she's Mixed, and I'm most likely H-G?

I'm confused.
Sara




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Too much food on hand to test new ones!

Posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 08:56:18:

In Reply to: Re: Intellectualizing about food testing (ATTN: Bob) posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 08:19:20:

Morning all,

Yes, that is right. I was just realizing that my frig is so full of artichokes (which happen to be absolutely wonderful) asparagus and other things that I think I best get to work on them so they don't spoil. Charlie did a good job of getting me supplied so I don't have to go out on long shopping expeditions to see what I need. SO I think that I probably won't test anything new today. Yesterday I added chard, asparagus, and apple.

Bob the walk was nice...but still no cigar. I feel ok so I prefer the walking/exercise approach as opposed to the green bottle. I would like to start talking with you about supplements. I order food and vitamins from a cooperative that orders every 6 weeks and the order is due this Thursday. IS it premature to assume that I am H-G and to order the supplements for that group? Also I have some vitamins that have not been opened that I need to send back that I know will not work, but there are some that I might eventually use. SO later today I would like to run my vitamin questions past you. Thanks again for all your help. I decided to stick to safe tea and not try that concotion that I wrote about yesterday. Amazing how something seemingly benign like an herbal tea blend could be costly to the tune of about a half of day recovery. I am more cautious about what I put in my mouth now!

Namaste,
Denise (it's snowing here)

PS: I'm starting to get my energy back. I think Charlie is a H-G also. Fortunately he is a healthy one! Anyway he likes my food list so it is not a strain on our relationship and he is eating right along with me (with the addition of some of my AVOIDS)




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Re: Too much food on hand to test new ones!

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 12:19:17:

In Reply to: Too much food on hand to test new ones! posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 08:56:18:

Denise,

I recommend waiting a month until starting to take any vitamins. First we want to make sure that you aren't cycling. Then I want you to lock onto a hard core H-G diet for at least a week solid and see how you do.

I find that about 25% of folks can't tolerate ANY vitamins no matter what metabolism they've inherited. They simply make them feel worse.

Keep testing foods. Keep an eye on where you think you are in your cycle and keep moving to more of a pure H-G diet (that excludes some of the things on the E-diet like sweet potato).

Bob


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Re: Intellectualizing about food testing (ATTN: Bob)

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 12:22:02:

In Reply to: Re: Intellectualizing about food testing (ATTN: Bob) posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 08:19:20:

Sara,

You too could try and test up to 6 foods a day!

The reason that I say three in my book is just to allow ample spacing and of course time for sleep :)

If you don't have a reaction within 4 hours you can try something else. Remember milk, milk products and grains are different.

Bob



Me too!

Posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 14:15:34:

In Reply to: Too much food on hand to test new ones! posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 08:56:18:

Hi Denise!

I have had that problem from the beginning. With no one to share my food with, (not that too many people I know want to eat fish all the time!) it's hard NOT to have leftovers. Since I'm not about to throw the food away, I have the same thing for a couple (few) meals sometimes!

It seems like this will go on forever. I am wondering REALLY, how to decide when I'm done testing. I have already eaten most of the foods on the core lists that I like. The "dangerous" foods are those I'm most interested in seeing if they cause a reaction. Onions, for instance- and tomatoes. I'd rather start adding some herbs and spices to see if I can further flavor the foods I'm eating now. I'm stuck on a few because of candida, too. There's an asterisk next to mushrooms (which I LOVE) because they're candida inducing. That's my main concern right now. I'm not sure I should even try adding starchy things at this point.

And I still feel the same. I guess I have a bit more energy, but mostly I'm kinda blah.

Hang in there, Denise (see my post below about the fenugree tea)

trish



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Re: Too much food on hand to test new ones!

Posted by lori on March 08, 1999 at 14:43:20:

In Reply to: Too much food on hand to test new ones! posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 08:56:18:

Denise- I was wondering how you eat artichokes. I know this may sound silly, but I've seen them in the store, and have never tried them-they look a little daunting to steam....


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Testing with candida concerns

Posted by Johnelle on March 08, 1999 at 14:44:12:

In Reply to: Me too! posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 14:15:34:

Sara
It seems to me I won't be through testing until after my
candida diet is concluded, then I can probably introduce the
candida-producing foods and see??? Robert, what do you have
to say on this?

Sara, can you either post what you're doing regarding the
candida, Nystatin, etc., either on the BB or email me?
Thanks -- you are my leader still! Have you had any food
reactions yet? I'm thinking Denise was the pea person :o),
and I'm the beef and beans person. What shall we call YOU?
Johnelle............


Follow Ups:


How to prepare an artichoke :-)

Posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 15:03:35:

In Reply to: Re: Too much food on hand to test new ones! posted by lori on March 08, 1999 at 14:43:20:

Hi Lori they are very easy to prepare. I have a basket steamer that fits into about a 2qt. pot. Put that little baby down into the pot and steam for about 30 minutes. Now the part that you eat is the meat from the bottom of the thistle. So you have to work a little bit as you go before you get to the good stuff. Once you have worked it over and gotten the leaf part of the thistle then you eat the stem and heart and believe me it worth all the effort to get to that part. Eating artichokes could be considered an artform or a mess depending on how you look at it of course.
My chickens are very happy with all the debris that I am generating from the kitchen. Lori, I think you will understand what I mean after you try it. Go for it they are delicious and this is a good time of year for them. ENJOY

Namaste,
Denise

PS: As my sweetie says "I wonder who was the first person to discover eating a thistle could be so tasty?"


Follow Ups:


Thanks Bob, I'll cool my jets about the vitamins (NMI)

Posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 15:14:28:

In Reply to: Re: Too much food on hand to test new ones! posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 12:19:17:

NMI



Well, you can call me trish! :0)

Posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 15:24:13:

In Reply to: Testing with candida concerns posted by Johnelle on March 08, 1999 at 14:44:12:

Hi, Johnelle!

You got me confused with Sara...I wouldn't want to impersonate a fearless leader! ;-) I had started nystatin powder, but Bob asked me to stop it until I get done testing. So I reluctantly did. I was feeling its effects already, but had also started my monthly cycle, and I think he wanted to see if I was metabolically cycling as well. I need to talk with him some more on the subject. I used nystatin in the past with success, so I'm going that route again. I have not had a reaction to anything yet. I guess I'm lucky, but it makes things more confusing- more to sift through. As far as testing candida inducing foods - well, you're best off not to even eat them until you're well out of the woods with the candida. That can take some time.

hang in there Johnelle - if you want to talk more, feel free to email me!

trish


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Re: Me too!

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 16:09:37:

In Reply to: Me too! posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 14:15:34:

Hi Trish,

I just wanted to add that your food testing will have to stop after 21 days. You can go on testing foods for a reaction but many will not generate a hyper-acute response after that 21 day period.

The problem is that we tend to re-develop tolerance over time. The re-acquisiton and timing of this tolerance varies greatly from person to person.

Have you tested the bakers or brewers yeast yet? You might want to take a hard look at the remaining foods that you see yourself eating on occassion and line them up for testing soon.

Bob


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Re: Testing with candida concerns (candida treatment)

Posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 16:11:26:

In Reply to: Testing with candida concerns posted by Johnelle on March 08, 1999 at 14:44:12:

Johnelle,

I will be using caprylic acid and grapefruit seed extract to treat my candida. I really didn't want to use any prescription medications for it (don't like what they can do to the liver), and my doctor was in agreement with me. The nystatin, from what I understand, can't hurt your liver, but my testing from GSDL came back saying that in my case, nystatin was not the most effective treatment for the candida. I'm also battling a bacteria called klebsiella, and will be taking emulsified oregano oil tablets and uva-ursi for it, which also, by the way, are supposed to be good against the candida.

The chamomile tea (plus the rebounding) produced results this morning in the battle against constipation, much to my relief :-) If this becomes a problem again, I will try mineral oil (thanks Walt!)

I still haven't had a reaction to any new foods, but I still have a ways to go on my testing list, so I'm sure you'll be able to come up with a name for me soon ;-)

Sara
P.S. E-mail me anytime.



Re: Testing with candida concerns

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 16:26:38:

In Reply to: Testing with candida concerns posted by Johnelle on March 08, 1999 at 14:44:12:

Sara,

You can TEST any candida inducing foods for a food allergy right NOW. After testing them, stop eating them, because of course they induce candida.

As I explained in a previous post you only have about 21 days to reliably TEST after the elimination diet.

What are you calling your 'candida diet'?

The best anti-candida diet is a whole foods diet that is appropriate for your inherited metabolism sans a couple of candida inducing foods. Is that what you are labeling as a candida diet?

Bob


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Bob, you have me confused with Johnelle (nmi)

Posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 17:25:10:

In Reply to: Re: Testing with candida concerns posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 16:26:38:

.



Re: Well, you can call me trish! :0)

Posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 17:39:00:

In Reply to: Well, you can call me trish! :0) posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 15:24:13:

Hey trish!

How's the food testing going? I wish I had known ahead of time that we only have 21 days to test foods - I would have been testing 4-5 foods per day!

I haven't reacted to anything yet either - makes me wonder if I did and I just missed it ;-)

Take care,
Sara


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More questions!!!

Posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 18:01:33:

In Reply to: Re: Me too! posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 16:09:37:

Bob

What the heck. I never heard you mention the 21 day limit before. Is it 21 days from the beginning of the e diet (in which case I'm already past it) or from the END of the e diet? I hope I haven't blown it.

Isn't tolerance a good thing? I'm going out to get a bunch of seafood if I only have a week left to test things. Haven't tried my faves of shrimp, scallops crab or lobster.
Of course I haven't reacted to anything either. And I haven't really felt much better. I guess I must have a very mild case of LGS...

How am I gonna fit butter in here? I had an artichoke last night with salted olive oil. It was kinda sad. I usually mix the olive oil with some butter and garlic to give it some texture.

My big problem is that I'll eat almost anything. I can't begin to tell you what I might be eating on occasion! I know I have to stick to high protein, low carb of course, but my goals were 1) to ferret out any sensitivities in order to heal the LGS and 2) to get better candidawise. All of this of course so that I would have more energy, and eventually eat a wide variety of foods (observing the grain/refined carb/sugar limitation).

How do I test baker's and brewer's yeast?

Like I said, I hope I haven't blown it...

trish


Follow Ups:


Hi, Sara! Gotta run now, but see my post to Bob above.

Posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 18:15:00:

In Reply to: Re: Well, you can call me trish! :0) posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 17:39:00:

I'll email you tomorrow.

trish



Thanks trish! I couldn't have said it any better!

Posted by Sara on March 08, 1999 at 18:21:27:

In Reply to: More questions!!! posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 18:01:33:

My fun-meter is pegged. Don't know if it's the candida talking or not, but I have noticed a tremendous increase in frustration today. Think I'll go take a hot bath & meditate.....

Sara



Re: More questions!!!

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 08, 1999 at 21:58:56:

In Reply to: More questions!!! posted by trish on March 08, 1999 at 18:01:33:

Trish,

You have about 21 days AFTER completing the elimination diet phase to complete the testing phase.

Mea Culpa. I talk about tolerance and the 21 day thing but it was cut off in the exerpt that now resides in the archive section. The problem is that much of that archived information is the result of an answer to a direct question rather than a comprehensive protocol.

Tolerance is a good thing -- but you can see where it limits the food testing phase.

I never tested crab but I eat it -- about 2-3 times a year. It's the same with mussels, shark, dolphin, squid, and lots of other stuff. I did test beef, lamb, chicken and turkey. I eat them about 2 times a week. What I am trying to say is that if you only RARELY eat a food don't waste time testing it. Butter on the other hand is something that you should test.

I personally found that there were at maximum 30 foods that required my testing -- which was done in 13 days with 8 major food allergies found.

Dissolve the bakers and brewers yeast in a little water and drink it down.

Bob



Re: How to prepare an artichoke :-)

Posted by lori on March 09, 1999 at 09:09:34:

In Reply to: How to prepare an artichoke :-) posted by Denise Wyrick on March 08, 1999 at 15:03:35:

Many thanks, Denise, for the clear explanation. I will think of you as I enjoy another new food!



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