Metabolic Type and ER4YT Diets archives

Tuesday's questions

Posted by Johnelle on March 09, 1999 at 16:49:43:

Well, here I am again, with my stash of new questions.
1. Can a person do the whole E-diet again at some point and
test different foods? If so, knowing chicken is safe, could
I do chicken rather than fish for the E-diet? ... Why not?
2. Why do grains have to be tested 3X a day, 4 days in a
row? And do I have to choose one grain and test it only?
Is testing wheat out of the question?
3. My last two blood tests showed cholesterol was 203.
Should I be concerned about all this fat I'm consuming?
4. Should I test milk since I someday want to eat whole
grain cereal with milk, though I don't drink milk itself?
And do I test cheese? 3X a day for 4 days?
5. I tested okay on soy nuts. Do I test soy milk
separately?
6. I'm not sure what the 2:1 ratio or 4/3/3 ratio means.
Do I eat twice a much meat as all veggies?
7. Which known diet is closest to yours--ER4YT, Zone, etc.?
People ask if this is like one or the other ... and I don't
know.

I feel like someone that decided to go on a trip at the last
minute and didn't get everything I needed packed. Thank you
all for bearing with me in my continued ignorance. Am I
missing some central location all this information can be
found? I have the E- diet, H-G and Ag. diets printed out
from the Archives.
I tested tomatoes today, got light-headed and have a bit of
a sore throat, sneezed once. Not at all like the beef and
bean reactions. Do different types of foods cause different
types of reactions?

Robert and Walt, thanks so much for your time and attention
to this bunch of gals!
Johnelle................(the one with the dots after her
nam


Follow Ups:


Re: Tuesday's questions

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 17:45:59:

In Reply to: Tuesday's questions posted by Johnelle on March 09, 1999 at 16:49:43:

Johnelle,

Whoa, take a breath! How ya' doin? Thought I'd jump in and help if I could until Bob has a chance to post. I have been printing out alot of the answers he has given to the many questions posted about the e-diet and food testing, so let me check my file.....

1. Don't know.

2. The reason for testing grains (and milk) 3 times a day for 4 days in a row is because they "are different from other foods. Sometimes they don't generate a hyper-acute response but they still create trouble. The repeated ingestion of milk and grains often damages the intestinal lumen increasing permeability of large peptides while causing problems with malabsorption. In order to test milk and grains you will have to eat them repetitively to feel the above effect." You could probably test wheat just like any other grain.

3. My cholesterol has improved (HDL/LDL ratio) since I started eating more fat (before Bob's diet, I had been on the ER4YT diet, so already had increased the fats). But I'm sure Bob & Walt can answer that better.

4. Up to you about testing milk. I would think cheese would be tested separately, but Bob will have to answer that.

5. Depending on the soy milk, it probably has other things in it, so I would think it would have to be tested separately (alot of them have sweetners in them - a no-no).

6. Bob will have to explain that one.

7. REALLY don't know - I think Bob's diet is pretty unique.

Your not ignorant to ask questions - how else are you going to get answers? Don't know if I was of much help, but I tried!

Take care,
Sara


Follow Ups:


The Tuesday evening news from llamaland

Posted by Denise Wyrick on March 09, 1999 at 18:11:35:

In Reply to: Re: Tuesday's questions posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 17:45:59:

Hi all, I had a snack of lamb broth and 1/4 apple today and I would say that I had a reaction to the apple. I don't know whether I will test another food today or not as I am still sluggish. I would classify it as a mild one but I am slow to recover from it. Ba humbug! I went to grocery store and got more things to try but we shall see how I feel. I won't try anything until I feel better.

Sara, I am glad that you were able to jump in answer some of Johnelle's questions. With my arms rubbery it makes it a challenge to type.

OK so no snow peas or apples, for me. I MIGHT try eggs again as my reaction was mild but I figure it is worth a try otherwise I'm seriously going to reduce my flock if you know what I mean.

All these reactions make me think my gut must be in some kind of shape.... imagine how bad I might be if I had not been practicing the SR.

Thanks,
Denise


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 19:10:06:

In Reply to: The Tuesday evening news from llamaland posted by Denise Wyrick on March 09, 1999 at 18:11:35:

Hey everybody!

So, what does it mean if you don't have ANY reactions? I know I'm not at the end yet, but I'm getting close. I just have supplemental foods and a couple of avoids left to test, then I test milk and a few grains.

Denise - sorry you reacted to apples, and hope your arms firm up ;-)

Sara


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions (duh, that should be NO) - brain fog attack (nmi)

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 19:19:43:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 19:10:06:

.



Re: Tuesday's questions

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 09, 1999 at 19:39:01:

In Reply to: Tuesday's questions posted by Johnelle on March 09, 1999 at 16:49:43:

Johnelle,

1. Can a person do the whole E-diet again at some point and
test different foods? If so, knowing chicken is safe, could
I do chicken rather than fish for the E-diet? ... Why not?

Your test today for chicken might show up negative. If you re-ran the Elimination diet (say 5 years in the future) and you ate chicken on a regular basis (more than once a week) you can not ASSUME that the chicken is still safe.

The basis of the low risk foods on the elimination diet is a combination of the unique properties of the foods and the fact that you didn't eat them repetitively prior to the diet.

2. Why do grains have to be tested 3X a day, 4 days in a
row? And do I have to choose one grain and test it only?
Is testing wheat out of the question?

Trish explained that one well. I wouldn't eat wheat -- MUCH too dangerous.

3. My last two blood tests showed cholesterol was 203.
Should I be concerned about all this fat I'm consuming?

Your liver produces more cholesterol than you can EVER eat as a response to stress -- the stress of a diet mismatched to metabolism. Your HDL/LDL ratio will improve after 4 months on this diet which is a better measure of cardiovascular risk than total cholesterol. Your total cholesterol might go up a bit, down a bit or stay the same.

4. Should I test milk since I someday want to eat whole
grain cereal with milk, though I don't drink milk itself?
And do I test cheese? 3X a day for 4 days?

Go ahead and test some whole milk if you want. It will take 4 days. Cheese is a different proposition since it has enzymes and other additives. As you know different cheeses are COMPLETELY different too. If you plan to eat anything more than the occassional very small condiment amounts of cheese I'd suggest testing it 3 times a day for 4 days.

5. I tested okay on soy nuts. Do I test soy milk
separately?

Soy milk is a complex mixture. I personally don't classify it as a whole food even if you make it up at home. You might want to abandon the idea of some sort of cereal and some sort of milk for breakfast.

6. I'm not sure what the 2:1 ratio or 4/3/3 ratio means.
Do I eat twice a much meat as all veggies?

You should buy BioBalance by Dr. Rudolph Wiley. He recommends a 2:1 ratio of primary:secondary foods for Mixed types.

7. Which known diet is closest to yours--ER4YT, Zone, etc.?
People ask if this is like one or the other ... and I don't
know.


It has some of the aspects of ER4YT and BioBalance by Dr. Wiley. It also has some of the aspects of An Alternative Approach to Allergies by Theron Randolph, M.D. Forget THE ZONE --it suggests that one diet is appropriate for everyone which I believe is untenable.

Unfortunately you ARE on a trip that you haven't packed and that's my fault for trying to over-simplify things. In the past I've worked with lots of folks via e-mail, telephone and in person. Before they embarked on the elimination diet I asked that they read Brain Allergies, BioBalance, Nutrition and Psychological Strength, An Alternativie Approach to Allergies and the first couple of chapters of my book. Of course the folks that read these in advance had a fuller understanding of what was going on. I made the mistake of thinking that I could short-circuit that protracted learning curve.

Although it was well intentioned -- it didn't (isn't) working. My apologies all around for the E-dieters.

Oh yes, different foods DO sometimes induce different symptoms.


Bob




Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 09, 1999 at 19:53:10:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 19:10:06:

Sara,

Have you tried bakers yeast and brewers yeast yet?

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - still no reactions

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 21:13:50:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - still not reactions posted by Robert McFerran on March 09, 1999 at 19:53:10:

Bob,

Funny you should ask - baker's yeast is on my list to be tested tonight at 10:00. I wasn't planning on testing brewer's yeast - haven't used the stuff in years.

I'll let you know how the baker's yeast test turns out.

Sara


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - still no reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 09, 1999 at 22:25:53:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - still no reactions posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 21:13:50:

Sara,

I just wanted to warn you that brewers yeast finds it's way into beer as well as a number of different fermented condiments.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 22:43:40:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - still no reactions posted by Robert McFerran on March 09, 1999 at 22:25:53:

Bob,

NO problem - I really can't stand the taste of beer; never really could (even back in high school, when it was the "cool" thing to be drinking). Didn't know that brewer's yeast was also in different fermented condiments (not that I plan to eat them anytime soon, but thanks for the heads-up for the future). I used brewer's yeast many years ago, specifically for increasing my breast milk when I was breastfeeding my kids. It worked! However, I haven't used it in a long time and don't really plan to anytime soon.

I tested the baker's yeast (sure smelled GREAT) in some water at 10:00. Am waiting to see if I have any kind of reaction (nothing so far). But I will let you know tomorrow.

PLEASE, what does it mean if a person doesn't react to any foods?

Thanks,
Sara


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast (addendum)

Posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 22:47:10:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 22:43:40:

Bob,

My biggest fear is that I have somehow done something wrong on the e-diet or in the testing because I haven't had any reactions.

Sara



Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 11:56:12:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Sara on March 09, 1999 at 22:43:40:

Sara,

In my book I address the following phenomenon:

About 15% of people on the elimination diet may not have a noticeable withdrawal or clearing. Usually the reasons fall into one of five categories:

1. There is a significant chemical exposure or inhaled allergy that is effectively masking symptoms. Common chemical exposures take the form of formaldehyde or carpet solvents in a new house/place of business or a leaking gas stove. The inhaled allergen is frequently dust and/or dust mite from old carpets and bedding. Molds from the basement can create a significant problem. A general clean-up of the surrounding environment is always a good idea prior to and following the elimination diet. Changing the bedding (especially the pillowcase) every evening can help reduce dust/dust mite exposure. Showering before going to bed is effective in removing pollens and other allergens from hair to keep them from being transferred to the pillowcase and inhaled through the night.

2. The individual has an extreme metabolism (usually demanding more fat, purine and cholesterol) than provided by the foods in the elimination diet. If they disdain eating the fish in the elimination diet they will rob themselves of key ingredients to their energy cycle. These folks usually describe a worsening of symptoms (especially fatigue) followed by a lack of clearing on the diet. These symptoms will resolve as they move to the Metabolic Diet phase of the program.

3. There is a significant problem with intestinal candidiasis (specifically reacting to the candida albicans microorganism) which is so severe that it's symptoms mask the results of the elimination diet. Usually these folks have withdrawal symptoms followed by only a marginal clearing of symptoms. These symptoms will clear once the candidiasis is properly treated.

4. The individual is reacting to toxins from other flora or parasites in the intestinal tract. Overabundance of gram negative bacteria or amoebic parasites are the usual culprits.

5. You are allergic to one of the foods on the elimination diet (very rare).

Any combination of the above can cloud the results of the elimination diet.

O.K. Sara, I'm back.

The above exerpt deals with folks with arthritis that ALWAYS have VERY leaky guts. Their leaky gut has progressed to the point where they have developed food allergies -- usually the foods that they ate repetitively and were poorly adapted too WHILE they had their leaky gut.

You may not fall into this category. You might have the beginnings of leaky gut but since you didn't eat any foods repetitively you haven't developed a problem yet OR you simply haven't tested those foods. Remember the major food allergens are corn, wheat, milk, soy -- none of which that you have tested due to my recommendations.

So then you might ask why am I not feeling good IF I've eliminated or don't even have food allergens?!

The answer is two-fold. There are lots of other things in your intestinal lumen that you can be reacting to that we cannot eliminate with the E-diet -- most prominent is candida albicans.

The other reason for your lack of well being is the fact that while there is a decided increase in energy level when you lock onto your appropriate metabolic diet -- the benefits of 'normalization' of hormonal systems, enzyme systems, amino acid synthesis, etc. accumulate and often require a minimum of 3-4 months to show significant improvement.

You have only walked about 1/8th of the journey and you are asking why you aren't there yet. Did I give you and others the impression that the journey would be over after eliminating food allergens?

Bob



Follow Ups:


Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions

Posted by Sara on March 10, 1999 at 12:40:08:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 11:56:12:

Bob,

I know I had withdrawal during the first few days of the e-diet, and your posts to me indicated that I was starting to clear on day 3, and by day 4 you said I was definately clearing.

As far as how I'm feeling, with the exception of feeling a little depressed Monday, I feel really good. My energy is increased, I have no more headache, joint pain, or muscle aches. The constipation problem is pretty much under control now too. All in all, I feel ALOT better than before I started on the e-diet.

I never did have a reaction to the baker's yeast last night, and tested mushrooms for breakfast this morning and no reaction from them. I know I still have milk to test, and I'm also going to test a few grains, so I know I'm not out of the woods yet as far as possible reactions go.

I guess what I wanted to know is if it is NORMAL to not react to any of the foods during the food testing (assuming I did make it through without any reactions, even from the milk & grains)? Have you ever had anyone else in this situation? Could it mean that my LGS isn't as bad as was originally thought?

Thanks,
Sara


Follow Ups:


Re: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 16:28:26:

In Reply to: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions posted by Sara on March 10, 1999 at 12:40:08:

Sara,

I don't think that you have near the problem with leaky gut as most folks that I've worked with. I do have to say that I've ALWAYS found at least one food sensitivity in folks diagnosed with arthritis.

I still think that corn, milk or wheat will get you if and when you test them.

Beyond that, most of your problem may find resolution with the proper metabolic diet. You did clear very quickly and generally speaking that suggests less of a problem in the way of enteric damage. I've noticed that young people (especially children) tend to clear very quickly while folks that are older and those that have especially been on longstanding drug therapies can take over twice as long.

Bob




Follow Ups:


Re: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions

Posted by Sara on March 10, 1999 at 17:36:13:

In Reply to: Re: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 16:28:26:

Bob,

Well, I don't have arthritis, and maybe the LGS isn't as bad as originally thought - I just know I have it because of the candida.

I am not going to test wheat, and wasn't planning on testing corn (I have craved it for as long as I can remember) because I assumed I was allergic to it (maybe I should test it BECAUSE of that though?). I am going to test milk, spelt, and oatmeal, but then I think I will probably have run out of time to test any other grains.

Recommendations?
Sara


Follow Ups:


Re: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 23:33:28:

In Reply to: Re: Bob: Clearing up a few things, and reactions posted by Sara on March 10, 1999 at 17:36:13:

Sara,

Basically I think that corn and wheat are bad stuff for folks trying to re-gain their health. You might get a small dose of wheat when you eat the oatmeal. Unless the oatmeal producer says that there is no wheat in their product you should assume that there is.

The problem is that the grain processors also process wheat and don't care to clean their machinery. Another problem is with crop rotation. The fields that are growing oats this year were often growning wheat last year. Contamination can be picked up in the harvesting process.

I became intimately aware of how rampant grain cross-contamination was when I noticed that my nephew would have little or no reaction to cooked rice but would have a HUGE reaction to rice cakes. He is sensitive to wheat and corn. I called the manufacterer and asked if flour or corn starch were being used in their manufacturing process. I had read where corn starch was often used to powder conveyors to keep food products from sticking to them. The public relations guy admitted that these 'food products' might be used in their manufacturing process.

Also realize that spelt contains gluten -- but less than wheat. Gluten and gliadin are very difficult for most folks to digest. They will cause harm to the enteric wall in many folks.

I personally cannot tolerate ANY grains. I tested positive to both wheat, corn and rice during my elimination diet. I didn't need the 4 days since I had an IMMEDIATE reaction to all three. Perhaps the reason is the contamination factor.

I'd feel better if you tested rice instead of the other grains. You might be able to get some SAFE oats at the health food store, but assume it's contaminated unless the packaging says it is not.

If you test wheat and corn you might find that you lose your well-being within the first day.

Bob





Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast

Posted by Rivka Zehavi-zack on May 18, 1999 at 05:42:49:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Robert McFerran on March 10, 1999 at 11:56:12:

Dear Bob

Thank you for the A.M. article.

Could you please further open about the symptoms of leaky guts ?
I am suffering form elimination problem for 20 years. I've taken various diets during the years and spesifically I am doing the disbiosys dieat in the last 7 months. Though there is a little improvement, the elimination problem still persists. Could it be a leaky gut syndrom ? could you advise ?

Thank you

Rivka Zehavi-Zack


Follow Ups:


Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast

Posted by Robert McFerran on May 18, 1999 at 10:47:56:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Rivka Zehavi-zack on May 18, 1999 at 05:42:49:

Rivka,

What is the dysbiosis diet??

Bob



What is leaky gut syndrome?

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 19, 1999 at 13:17:11:

In Reply to: Re: The Tuesday evening news - baker's & brewer's yeast posted by Rivka Zehavi-zack on May 18, 1999 at 05:42:49:


Hi, Rivka.

Go to the link below and #17 of the articles on the home page of this 'site.

THEN, if you still have questions, you would benefit from reading a copy of my book (link on this page).

When you have the above information, if you still have more questions, write again.

Walt



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