Dr. Stoll,
I was wondering if you have any thoughts concerning tailoring your menu based on what blood type you are. I have been very sick for over a year now, and have been on a blood type diet for 3 months now as a last resort. I must admit I have only seen minimal improvement, and that could be just from eating, whole, organic foods, and practicing relaxation techniques. Do you think I should give this diet more of a chance, or am I just wasting my time, and why?
Thanks for the help!
Tony
In Reply to: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 20, 1998 at 13:56:44:
Dear Tony,
After this length of time you are probably one for whom this approach does not work. Also this is just about the time when you should be seeing improvement from your relaxation technique.
I know Peter well enough to tell him what I think of his book. It has a grain of truth to it & will work for a % of people who do it right. Unfortunately, that is a minority of people & the danger is that, for those for whom it does not work, they will throw out the baby with the bathwater----
and THAT would be a shame.
Walt
In Reply to: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 20, 1998 at 13:56:44:
As a type B blood excluding chicken from my diet completely eliminated my morning arthritis. I never had indigestion to indicate this food was a problem and was eating it at least twice a week (because it's cheap). Where else could I have found this targeted information except from Dr. D'adamo's work. I don't follow the diet religiously (still indulge in cherry tomatoes from our garden), but that little gem alone has saved me years of suffering. Supplements of calcium, ester-C, pycnogynol etc. were powerless to unto the damage of a food that did not suit me. I value the work of all scientists and doctors that help us modify our lives and diets leading to life more abundant. Let's not make this a right/wrong issue; these contributions may be lifesavers for some.
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Walt Stoll on July 21, 1998 at 11:41:30:
Peter D'Adamo's Eat Right Theory and Dr. Stoll's work are both very valuable tools for helping people gain optimum health. I see no reason why they can't be used together. The lectin factor is a compelling one, and the metaobolism adjustment is a very importatant distinction.
The type A diet, for instance, can be used by a fast oxidizer with more emphasis on a "heavier" diet (more protien) and the addition of purines. How would this be contradictory?
Also, an O person with a slow metabloism could eat a lighter (less protien and purines) diet with the foods allowed according to blood type. I see a greater added value when used together.
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by SharonJ on July 21, 1998 at 13:31:30:
Dear Sharon,
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about when I share my concerns about "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". Peter's work has profound validity for some people & the only way I know to find those people is to do what you have done: TRY IT!
Thanks for your testimonial. Everyone would benefit from reading Peter's book & SOME would benefit from trying it.
This brings up another of my favorite recommendations: "Listen to your body."
Walt
In Reply to: Why either /or ? Both together can be very symbiotic posted by Louise on July 21, 1998 at 18:00:30:
Louise,
Try this diet. I'll predict it will work better for you than a 'modified' type O diet.
RECOMMENDATIONS for AGRICULTURALIST DIET
Meat,
Fish, Poultry:
ALLOWED:
All light fish (either fresh or frozen) such as scrod, cod,
flounder, sole, turbot, perch1 haddock and well rinsed
fancy white albacore tuna packed in water (*); ideally
white tuna should be soaked in water and refrigerated for
at least twelve hours prior to consumption; as a rule of
thumb with exceptions noted below, if the color of the
fish in question is pure white or pale off-white then it
is in all probability acceptable; lean, skinned chicken
and turkey breast; lean pork, low salt ham (*) should
be pretreated in the same fashion as tuna; low salt/low
fat sausages may be eaten but not for breakfast. Meat,
fish or poultry of any variety should NEVER be eaten for
breakfast (a sample menu is listed below).
AVOID: Organ meats such as liver, kidneys, brains, sweetbreads, tongue, tripe, etc.; fatty pork, bacon (*) and heavily salted hams (*); all red meats including venison and veal; lamb; duck and goose; cold cuts of any variety (*); poultry wings, thighs and drumsticks; all darker meat and some cold water fish either fresh, frozen or canned (*) such as salmon, dark meat tuna (often labeled as 'chunk light'), swordfish, dark meat bluefish, mackerel, sardines, herrings, caviar and salmon roe; all shell fish such as scallops, abalone, oysters, clams and black mussels; escargot/snails; all crustaceans such as shrimp, crab, lobster and crayfish; squid/calamari octopus; all frankfurters of any variety irrespective of the fact they may be low in salt and additive-free and "all natural", including chicken franks, beef franks, pork franks, turkey franks and tofu franks (see vegetables below).
* All asterisked items are candida inducing.
Vegetables:
ALLOWED: Lettuce (any variety), tomatoes (any variety), cucumbers (peeled if waxed), peppers (any variety, sweet or hot), fresh garlic (not garlic salt), fresh horseradish (if in a jar then it should be a low or no salt variety), onions (any variety) including leeks and scallions, potatoes of any variety (but NOT fried), cabbage of any variety, broccoli, broccoli raabe, mustard greens1 eggplant (but NOT fried or parinigiana), brussel sprouts, bean sprouts, zucchini and summer squash. Kale, sweet potatoes (*), yams (*), and all gourd/autumnal squashes (*) such as llokkaido pumpkin, buttercup squash, butternut squash and acorn squash may be eaten in moderation. FRESH SALADS SHOULD BE EATEN DAILY. All produce should be fresh. Frozen produce may be used occasionally. It is suggested that canned produce (*) be avoided if possible. Celery and carrots should be used sparingly. Carrot shavings in a salad are appropriate whereas several carrots as part of a snack are inappropriate.
AVOID: All leguminous vegetables such as peas, beans and lentils of any variety including tofu (soy bean curd); spinach, cauliflower, artichokes and asparagus.
Fungi:
AVOID: all mushrooms (*).
Fruits:
ALLOWED: Any melon and fresh citrus fruit such as oranges1 tangerine 5, grape fruits, lemons, limes, pineapple and tangelos, including fresh squeezed citrus juice (not from concentrate). Melons and fresh citrus or its juice should be eaten/drunk each morning (See outline of typical breakfast/lunch and dinner). While citrus may be eaten at any time of the day, the following fruits should be eaten in the afternoon only if desired: apples (peeled and cored), pears (peeled and cored), plums1 apricots1 peaches, berries, cherries and grapes. Except for extreme cases of candidiasis, fresh fruit is not candida inducing.
AVOID: Avocadoes and olives. Bananas may be used sparingly as a dessert or part of a meal (never for breakfast or in the a.m.). No more than 2 or 3 bananas should be consumed weekly. All bananas should be "green tipped" and not fermented to the point of being extremely ripe, black or moldy.
Dairy:
ALLOWED: Any dairy (cow's or goat's milk, yogurt and cottage cheese) whose fat content is less than or equal to 1.5%. If a lactose intolerance exists all dairy should be lactose reduced or if unavailable in this form, should be pretreated with Lactaid. This intolerance may not be an issue once BioBalance is achieved. Yogurt need not be pretreated. Low fat ricotta cheese and low fat mozzarella cheese are permitted in small quantities only during the evening meal if desired. Low fat ricotta and mozzarella should never be used as a main source of protein. Because of its salt content it is advisable that low fat mozzarella cheese be pretreated in the same fashion as tuna and ham (stated above). [t is of course impossible to pre-treat mozzarella cheese with lactaid and in this regard, this recommendation may be over-looked here.
AVOID: Any other dairy and cheese (*) whether or not it is lactose reduced. In essence, all dairy which contains 2% milk fat or more should be avoided.
Eggs:
ALLOWED: Eggs of any variety whether they are fertilized or unfertilized. Ideally, eggs should not be eaten for breakfast on a regular basis. They may be fried only with a small amount of margarine and not butter. Fats are discussed in additional detail below. Poaching or boiling are permitted
Whole Grains:
ALLOWED: All whole grains with the exception of corn (see below). Whole grains include; brown rice (any length), oats/oat meal, whole barley, buckwheat, millet, rye, wheat and amaranth. The use of Essene (phon. Ah-Seen) bread and rice cakes is encouraged in that these breads contain neither flour or yeast. Unleavened breads containing flour are also permitted but should be used in moderation, such as Norwegian flat bread, matzo bread and sourdough bread. All other breads (*) should be used sparingly if not avoided. Any sugar free breakfast cereal is also permitted such as corn flakes (despite the fact corn is not permitted), puffed rice, shredded wheat, cream of (brown) rice, cream of rye, etc. With the exception of Essene bread, rice cakes and breakfast cereals, whole grains should not be introduced until the afternoon and evening meals. Whole grains should be eaten daily.
AVOID: Corn and popcorn.
Nuts
and Nut Butters:
AVOID: All nuts and seeds as well
as nut and seed butters, especially peanuts and peanut
butter.
Fats:
ALLOWED: Safflower or corn oil;
safflower, corn or soy margarine; "all natural" sugar-free
mayonnaise is preferable although other types of mayonnaise
are permitted if used sparingly.
AVOID: Olive oil, butter and lard.
Beverages:
ALLOWED: Regular coffee (not
decaffeinated) may be used "medicinally" in that caffeine
is extremely acid inducing in its potential and may be
used to abort an especially severe alkaline episode. One
cup of regular coffee each morning with breakfast should
be encouraged unless an idiopathic reaction occurs. In
the unlikely event that such a reaction occurs, it will
likely occur within the first few days of the program and
consist of stomach cramps. An additional cup of coffee
later in the day may also be drunk if needed, especially
to counter- effect mid-afternoon fatigue. Regular tea
(non-decaffeinated) may also be used instead of coffee. Tea
however is less effective than coffee and is more candida
inciting in it’s potential than coffee. Low sodium or zero
sodium club soda is permitted as is distilled water. Tap
water may be used for cooking purposes unless there is
reason to believe that its source is contaminated. While
fruit juice concentrates(*) should ideally be avoided,
they may be used sparingly (tomato juice and fruit
juice). Fresh fruit juices1 especially citrus fruit juices
are encouraged. if diluted lemon or lime juice can be
tolerated (not from concentrate or reconstituted), it may
be used to abort alkaline episodes and achieve transient
BioBalance.
Agriculturist types must keep well hydrated especially, but not exclusively in hot weather. It is noteworthy that hot weather will tend to accentuate an underlying metabolic imbalance. consequently alkaline types may want to abstain from eating all meat, fish and poultry and possibly eggs during extreme hot weather spells, substituting low fat yogurt instead.
AVOID: Soft drinks and alcoholic beverages whose alcohol content does not exceed 12% by volume may be used very sparingly. Any alcoholic beverage whose content by volume exceeds 12% should be avoided, especially mixed drinks made with milk fat.
Miscellaneous:
ALLOWED: Lean, dilute, clarified
chicken broth (irrespective of the type of meat (light
or dark) used in preparing the broth); once again, meat
or meat by-products should never be eaten for breakfast;
low or no salt, additive-free mustard, ketchup (*), horse
radish, hot sauce, mayonnaise (*), salad dressing and
vinegar (*) may be used. Tomato based sauces and soups are
permitted provided that they are home made and provided
that sauces do not contain excessive amounts of oil and
salt, and do not contain any of the foods which should be
avoided. Canned tomatoes (*) may be used on occasion. Low
fat (1.5% or less) milk based soups and sauces may also
be used if they are prepared with low fat lactose reduced
milk, eggs, potato flour (not arrowroot or cornstarch)
and any allowed oil or margarine so as not to exceed the
individual's daily caloric fat intake. The absence of
these soups and sauces could result in a rather boring
cuisine and may prove discouraging. Any herb or spice
may be used in moderation. Fresh garlic may also be used,
generously if desired.
AVOID: Added salt, meat gravies of any variety, dehydrated bouillon cubes, monosodium glutamate, creamy based sauces and soups made with whole milk, half n' half or heavy cream (such as New England Clam Chowder). As a rule, processed foods and 'party" foods such as potato chips, tortilla chips, etc., should be avoided or used very sparingly irrespective of whether they are low in salt or not. Shoyu, mi so, tamari and soy sauce should be used very sparingly.
Desserts:
ALLOWED:
Subject to the warning that all desserts should be used
very sparingly, the following desserts are allowed;
zero or/low fat sherbet such as Sorbet (phon: Sor-Bay),
fruit pies or torts absent the crust especially if the
crust is high in fat and contains lard or butter. Fruit
of the allowed variety is always permitted. In the event
excessive alkalinity occurs which will result in the
re-emergence of pre-existing symptoms, a snack of citrus,
accompanied (if desired) by low/no salt rice cakes and some
non-decaffeinated coffee with a small amount of sugar may
be ingested. The probability is rather high that within
30 to 60 minutes there will be a significant reduction
in symptom severity.
In the case of the alkaline individual, sugar offers risks as well as benefits in that if taken sparingly it can have therapeutic effects since sugar is highly acid-inducing and will thus serve to reduce pre-existing alkaline imbalance which is the primary source of the distress in this case. Excessive ingestion of sugar however (more than approximately 1 to 2 level teaspoons per day) will serve to increase risk for incurring candida overgrowth. Furthermore concentrated fats as incorporated in the desserts described below will produce deleterious effects which will far outweigh any of the transient benefits which may be derived by occasionally ingesting small amounts of sugar.
AVOID: Ice cream, cheese cake, pastries, etc.
A NOTE ON RESTAURANT DINING:
Most restaurants offer an acceptable or allowed "catch of the day". Broiled or baked fish without fatty sauces that usually accompany seafood of this fashion is acceptable. Seafood fried in batter ("tempura") should be avoided. If appropriate seafood is not available, chicken breast or lean pork (in that order of preference) may be ordered. All "Fast Foods" should be avoided. If possible, low salt cuisine is always preferable. Salt should not be added. Currently, the product "Mrs. Dash's" may provide an alternative to salt. "K Salt" is not recommended.
METHODS OF PREPARATION:
Any method is acceptable except for deep fat frying or tempura frying. To reiterate, fast foods are to be avoided. Stir frying is permitted if small amounts of allowed fat are used to lightly coat the wok or skillet to prevent sticking. Stir frying in this fashion should be encouraged in that it will add variety to what could easily become rather boring cuisine. It is suggested that aluminum cookware not be used. Stainless steel, cast iron, glass and ceramic are all acceptable. Teflon is also acceptable. Once again, ideally salt should not be added.
Some basic methods of preparing whole grains are summarized below:
Brown Rice or Barley: Add 3 cups of either grain to 5 cups of water cooker. Bring to full head of steam, reduce in a stainless steel pressure heat to low, insert a heat deflector element between the pressure cooker and the heating element (gas or electric) and let cook for 50 minutes.
Buckwheat or Millet:
Any desired amount of either grain may be pan toasted over
low heat in a cast iron skillet for 20 to 30 minutes,
stirring occasionally. An equal amount of water or more
if desired should then be added. Cover and let simmer
until water is fully absorbed.
TYPICAL BREAKFAST,
LUNCH AND DINNER
BREAKFAST: 1 cup of regular coffee
(freeze dried but not decaffeinated), 1 glass fresh
squeezed orange juice, 1/2 grapefruit, 1 bowl of shredded
wheat with low fat lactose reduced milk.
Meat, fish
poultry and eggs should not be eaten for breakfast at any
time.
MID Morning SNACK: (optional) 1 cup of regular coffee (if desired) or weakly brewed tea plus 1 orange or tangerine.
LUNCH: Salad consisting of: Lettuce, tomatoes, radishes, onions, peppers, cucumbers (peeled if waxed), shredded cabbage, raw broccoli plus one or two hard boiled eggs. If eggs elicit an adverse reaction then they should be eliminated and coffee intake should be reduced in an attempt to avoid excessive acid induction. Salad dressing may consist of safflower oil, freshly squeezed lemon and minced garlic (if desired); 1 slice of Essene bread or rice cake(s). Beverage may consist of herbal tea (any variety) or weakly brewed regular tea.
Some alkaline types may wish to avoid meat, fish, poultry and eggs for lunch as well in the event some symptoms reemerge in the afternoon. In the event meat, fish, poultry and eggs are not included as part of lunch then low fat dairy (preferably low fat yogurt) should form the basis of protein intake during the morning and afternoon.
MID AFTERNOON SNACK: (optional) l cup of regular coffee (if desired) or weakly brewed tea plus l peeled, cored apple and tangerine.
DINNER: Fillet of Sole baked with lemon and teaspoon of safflower oil. Steamed zucchini and tomatoes, baked potato and brown rice. Safflower or corn oil or margarine may be placed on the vegetables and rice. 1 cup of herbal tea (any variety).
It must be re-emphasized that this is not a "high coffee" diet and that coffee should never be used indiscriminately and only "medicinally" as described above.
RECOMMENDED
VITAMIN/MINERAL SUPPLEMENTS
Supplements should never be taken until after the individual's acid/alkaline BioProfile has been well defined over a minimal period of 30 days. In the event these supplements cannot be tolerated, they should not be taken.
A full dose of
vitamins is defined as follows:
Vitamin/Mineral Full
Dose
A (fish liver oil) 10,000 lUs
D 400 lUs
C 500 mgs
BI 10 mgs
B2 l0mgs
B6 l0mgs
Niacin 25 mgs
Para Amino Benzoic Acid 100 mgs
Folic Acid 200 mcg
Biotin l50mcg
Potassium 200
mgs
Magnesium l00mgs
Iron 15mgs
Copper 1 mg
Manganese 5mgs
Chromium l00mcg
All minerals should
be "chelated". Insofar as the dosages listed above are
concerned, the "elemental" quantity specified on the
bottle's label and not the chelated amount constitute a
"Full Dosage". Hence (for example) if the label lists
that each tablet contains 500 mgs of magnesium chelate
which in turn contains 100 mgs of elemental magnesium,
one tablet will satisfy the requirements listed
here.
A full dose is to be taken after breakfast and
again after lunch. If an intolerable niacin "flushing"
reaction occurs, then the dosage of niacin only is to be
reduced to 10 mgs per full dose. Flushing is defined as
similar to transient sunburn. It is noteworthy that the
probability of occurrence of a "flushing" reaction at 25
mgs of Niacin per full dose is extremely low.
These dosages are appropriate for an individual whose weight ranges from 120 to 200 pounds. Individuals weighing less than 120 pounds should take only half the dosages listed here, while individuals weighing more than 200 pounds should take 1.5 times the dosages listed here.
It is noteworthy that hot weather accentuates an underlying alkaline condition. Hence alkaline types must be especially rigorous with their regimens during episodes of extremely hot weather. As indicated, alkaline types may wish to abstain from eating meat, fish and poultry as well as eggs in extremely hot weather, substituting only low fat dairy for protein.
Louise,
Now eliminate these foods which contain lectins that react with O blood type.
Type O
Wheat
Corn
Kidney
Beans
Lentils
Cabbage
Brussel
Sprouts
Cauliflower
Mustard Greens
Potato
Type A
Milk
Kidney Beans
Lima Beans
Wheat
(in overabundance)
Meat (in ‘agriculturist’
metabolic types only)
Tomato
Type B
Corn
Lentils
Peanuts
Sesame
Seeds
Buckwheat
Wheat
Tomato
Type AB
Kidney Beans
Lima
Beans
Seeds
Corn
Buckwheat
Wheat
Tomato
The difference is that you START with proper metabolic diet and THEN avoid lectins specific to your blood type. By the way, is there any source that shows the results of physical testing of food lectins and blood type?
Bob
In Reply to: Why either /or ? Both together can be very symbiotic posted by Louise on July 21, 1998 at 18:00:30:
Dear Louise,
I couldn't agree more! ALL of the stuff we discuss on this BB will work better if worked together AND even better yet if the individual will learn enough to intelligently combine what THAT individual needs.
This concept has been described by world class researchers for at least 50 years.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Why either /or ? Both together can be very symbiotic posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 13:38:50:
Bob,
It's not critical for you, but please include CHICKEN as an avoid for B's and AB's. After corn it seems to cause the greatest inflamation in us B's. Thank You.
A fellow admirer of Dr. Watson's and Dr. Wiley's work,
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: Why either /or ? Both together can be very symbiotic posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 13:38:50:
I am an O with a very fast metabolism. I am also gluten intolerant. Your diet would have me bloated, bleeding and probably unconscious.
I beleive you gave me the diet for a slow oxidizer. I need a very heavy purine diet to stablize, or I have severe hypoglycemic reactions. I modify the classic O diet with very limited carbs, high fat and heavy purine animal protien and strive for ketosis to maitain weight loss...
It has worked very well for me.
Louise
In Reply to: Perhaps I was not clear.... posted by Louise on July 22, 1998 at 18:28:09:
Louise,
YIKES!! You are right. If you are hypoglycemic (confirmed via a 5 hour glucose tolerance test) you would be just the opposite of what I last posted. Try this diet instead and pull out the grains and other lectin containing foods that react with your blood type.
You'll be interested to see that this diet has more fat, and much more purines (from the dark meats and vegetables) that Dr. D's O diet. It should serve your inherited metabolic needs very well.
NUTRITIONAL REGIMEN APPROPRIATE FOR
HUNTER-GATHERER BIOCHEMICAL TYPES
RECOMMENDATIONS
Meat, Fish, Poultry:
ALLOWED: Organ meats such as liver, kidneys, brains, sweet- breads, tongue, tripe, etc.; pork ribs, bacon (*); all red meats including venison and veal; lamb; cold cuts (*) of any variety but preferably additive-free; dark meat poultry (either chicken or turkey) such as poultry wings, thighs and drum- sticks, skin may be left on when fried as desired (see methods of preparation below); duck and goose; all darker meat fish and some cold water fish either fresh, frozen or canned (*) such as salmon, dark meat tuna (often labeled as "chunk light") especially when packed in oil, swordfish, dark meat bluefish, mackerel, sardines (*), herrings (*), caviar and salmon roe, all shell fish such as scallops, abalone, oysters, clams and black mussels; escargot/snails; all crustaceans such as shrimp, crab, lobster and crayfish; squid/calamari, octopus; all frankfurters of any variety but preferably additive-free, including chicken franks, beef franks, pork franks, turkey franks and soy/tofu franks (see vegetables below).
AVOID: All light fish (either fresh or frozen) such as scrod, cod, flounder, sole, turbot, perch, haddock and fancy or solid white albacore tuna (*); chicken and turkey breast; lean pork, ham(*).
MEAT, FISH AND POULTRY OF THE ALLOWED VARIETIES
SHOULD BE EATEN AT EVERY MEAL.
* All asterisked items are candida inducing.
Vegetables:
ALLOWED: All leguminous vegetables such as peas, lentils and beans of any variety including tofu (soy bean curd), potatoes especially if fried or buttered to taste (fats will be discussed below), carrots, celery, spinach, cauliflower, artichokes as well as artichoke hearts (artichoke hearts bottled in oil are acceptable) and asparagus. All produce should be fresh and well rinsed to reduce pesticide ingestion. Individuals harboring significant levels of candida may at times be sensitive to insecticides used in agricultural application. Frozen produce may be used occasionally. It is suggested that canned produce (*) be avoided if possible. All gourd/autumnal squashes (*) such as Hokkaido pumpkin, buttercup squash, butternut squash and acorn squash may be eaten sparingly.
Avoid: Lettuce (any variety), tomatoes (any variety), cucumbers, peppers (any variety, sweet or hot), fresh garlic (garlic salt may be used sparingly), horseradish, onions (any variety) including leeks and scallions, cabbage of any variety, broccoli, broccoli raabe, mustard greens, eggplant, brussel sprouts, bean sprouts, zucchini and summer squash, kale, beets (*), sweet potatoes (*) and yams (*)
Fungi
ALLOWED: All mushrooms (*)
Fruits:
ALLOWED: Avocados and olives. Bananas may be used sparingly as a dessert or part of a meal. No more than 2 or 3 bananas should be consumed weekly. All bananas should be "green tipped" and not fermented to the point of being extremely ripe. The following fruits may be eaten cored and peeled, sparingly if desired and preferably with some nut or seed butter or at the end of an appropriate meal: apples and pears.
AVOID: All melons and citrus fruit (whether fresh or from concentrate) such as oranges, tangerines, grapefruits, lemons, limes, pineapple and tangelos. Also all of the following should be avoided as well: plums, apricots, peaches, berries, cherries and grapes.
Dairy:
ALL DAIRY SHOULD BE USED SPARINGLY AND NOT AS A PROTEIN SUBSTITUTE FOR MEAT, FISH OR POULTRY.
ALLOWED: Any whole dairy
In Reply to: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 22, 1998 at 15:27:29:
Sharon,
Thanks for the input.
Does chicken contain a specific lectin that agglomerates B's and AB's or was it just a D'Adamo observation that they seem to have trouble with it?
By the way, which one of the metabolic subsets do you fall into? What is your experience with chicken in terms of symptoms?
Thanks,
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Why either /or ? Both together can be very symbiotic posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 13:38:50:
Robert:
I've been reading your posts with great interest. I guess I started something with my health type diet question. I am new to all of this natural health stuff. The reason I was on the er4yt diet was because it helped my friend and his family tremendously, so I was hoping it would help me.
I've been sick for over a year now with a myriad of symptoms, but no diagnosis. I've been on the er4yt diet from the elder D'Adamo, James, for 3 months now and have seen minimal improvement. He does address some of your concerns, by including subtypes. I am an A with B tendencies, therefore I am supposed to have some meat.
I am very interested in the diets you were mentioning, and wondering if you could send me Dr. Wiley's book title, so I could get more info on his diets, and any other info on diets you think are really good. You can post it here, or send it to me directly at psh70@hotmail.com.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Tony A
In Reply to: Re:Help me Robert! posted by Tony A on July 23, 1998 at 13:24:13:
Tony,
See my response to you in an earlier post suggesting starting a new thread at the top of this BB.
The book is BIOBALANCE by Dr. Rudolph Wiley.
Bob
p.s. -- I don't buy this stuff about subtypes about you being an A with B tendencies (what does that mean??)
In Reply to: Re:Help me Robert! posted by Robert McFerran on July 23, 1998 at 13:30:30:
Rob,
Thanks for the book title. As for the blood subtypes, that is how James D'Adamo has supposedly further refined his groupings, in order to incorporate the different types of A's, B's, and O's.
Also, I don't know what you mean about starting a new thread.
Thanks again!
Tony
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Rboert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 23:52:09:
This is a specific lectin that agglutinates the B antigen (curiously found in chicken meat, but not eggs - per D'adamo). For nine months I woke up with hot swollen fingers. After moving around a bit (i.e., my body - my hands would be inflexible), 30 minutes, my hands were completely mobile and painless again. Actually I'm typing this from memory because I've never had a recurrence since my last meal of chicken, approx. 10 months ago. Before that every single morning was as I described above. I was only 29 years old when I started getting the stiffness in my left hand (I'm lefthanded), then it started up in my right and had become progessively worse, until I made that ONE dietary adjustment. It took about a week and a half to completely clear my system. It was dramatic and conclusive - no more morning arthritis after being an intractable problem. By the way, my type B Mom just recently described these same symptoms, I have yet to hear back from her, but she had started increasing her consumption of chicken (because it's a cheap and "healthy" meat.)
I appear to be a daily cycler. I primarily identify with the slow oxidizers in the morning (I rarely eat breakfast - thoughts of food nauseate me at this time; I do my exercising here.) and identify increasingly with fast oxidizers as the day wears on. I adore sardines follwed by very little rice around 1 PM, but an attempt to eat them earlier left me indigested the REST of the day. I eat some fruit throughout the day, but avoid it near bedtime. Most days I feel fabulous and then there are those that I wish I had kept a food journal to determine why I'm feeling completely zonked or spacey.
Are you familiar with Dr. Abravanel's work? Ideal diet and lifestyle based on one's dominant endocrine gland. The Thyroid and Pituitary types closely parallel fast metabolizers with a corresponding recommended diet higher in protein. The Gonadal and Adrenal types closely parallel slow metabolizers with a corresponding diet higher in carbos.
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 23, 1998 at 17:25:09:
Sharon,
I cannot thank you enough for bringing the chicken thing to my attention. I will incorporate your advise into the avoid lectins for different blood types in my book.
I have read Dr. Abravanel's work and while I found it interesting it was still a qualitative call rather than more quantitative as to the endocrine gland type. I felt Watson and Wiley's work to be superior in that regard. Obviously there is something to it -- but I fear like blood types that it is only a correlation.
I haven't even broached the subject of someone who cycles daily here on the board since it is so rare and folks tend to want to see themselves in that category when they first learn about something. I really have to commend you for figuring that out.
I have personally found that folks experience the greatest deal of 'metabolic drift' as they sleep overnight. I think this is one key reason for folks with rheumatoid arthritis experiencing 'morning stiffness'. That plus the fact that our adrenals secrete cortisol (the most significant dose of the day) in a circadian fashion at about 7:30 in the morning. This cortisol doesn't take effect usually for about 2-3 hours -- thus when you wake you're going to have a little more residual inflammation until that natural anti-inflammatory steroid kicks in.
Anyone wanting to do a review of metabolism should go to a search engine and find Health Excel. They have a bibliography of readings that are pretty comprehensive in understanding metabolism including the work of Dr. Roger Williams -- the first guy that got me interested in metabolic connections to rheumatoid/autoimmune disease.
I have to say that of all the folks that I've helped with their arthritis NOT ONE OF THEM were eating in a manner consistent with their inherited metabolic type before and at onset of disease. Pretty compelling huh?
Bob
In Reply to: Re:Thanks Robert! posted by Tony A on July 23, 1998 at 13:39:01:
Tony,
Go to the upper right hand corner of the ASK DR. STOLL BULLETIN BOARD PAGE and look to the right of the green artwork and you'll see 'post message'.
Click on it and post a new message that will appear at the top of the BB rather than somewhere in the middle.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Robert McFerran on July 23, 1998 at 18:06:26:
A hearty thanks from all us B's for including chicken on your avoid list. I really can't speak for the importance for AB's, probably not as crucial. I welcome one of you to tell me different because my 3 year old daughter is AB and I haven't been letting her have Daddy's evening meal. Am I being an overprotective mom?
As fascinating as I found Dr. Abravanel's book, I couldn't quite make it work for me. I DID very clearly fall into the Thyroid category with significant bread and sweets cravings, but now I see he was not specific enough regarding what protein to eat (I have a limited tolerance for eggs which he recommends as a lifetime morning meal for Thyroid types). Sardines (Dr. Wiley as you know recommends them for fast metabolizers)in particular knock out my carbo cravings, also a multi-mineral supplement containing chromium and vanadium.
My husband is an Adrenal type and clearly has a higher tolerance for carbohydrates. Looking at my daughter's hands from birth (Dr. Abravanel states it shows up this early) revealed them to be obviously meatier than my skinny digits, so I feel safe assuming she'll be a slow metabolizer as her daddy is and can handle the large amount of grapes and raisins they both adore and I've always avoided instinctively. I haven't even looked into how my monthly cycle affects my metabolic needs, just figuring out each day is a challenge. I've been having some luck with sustained energy eating cottage cheese with a little flax seed oil and a small portion of fruit at around 10 AM. What are your thoughts on Dr. Johanna Budwig's work?
I was very interested to learn why my stiff fingers would only show themselves in the morning. Thank You.
No question the body is more resilient when it's fed the proper mix of fuel and can shake off the effects of allergenic foods better than when it's "running on empty".
One must still take care of the root problem; and I suppose the "healed" person will never be pursuaded it's anything other than what s/he did to effect the miracle.
One last thought: I came across this board about two weeks ago (through what means I don't recall) and will likely hang around a while. I had been regularly haunting Dr. D'adamo's board, but it is increasingly becoming restricted to blood type talk only. It's his board after all! But I really have enjoyed the depth and scope of many of the strings here. And especially Dr. Stoll's responses. Time to get his book I think! A special thanks to Bob,
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: Perhaps I was not clear.... posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 23:45:27:
The diet you sent (the second time) is very close to how I am eating now -with the removal of all of the O "avoids", that is.
The questions I have are ...
1. Why must we avoid eating white meat and "light fish"? I can see why they would not be first choice, and the heavier purine rich foods would be preferable, but why avoid them? What harm would they cause?
2. Why must the eggs be fertilized? Is the fertilization more important than being organic and free range?
3. Why are potatoes allowed? Aren't they rather high on the glycemic index? I know they are subtracted because of the O lectins, but isn't it contrary to the fast oxidizer metabloism?
i really appreciate you sending me these diets. I am getting the books you recommend, and am looking forward to your s.
Thanks again,
louise
In Reply to: Thanks, Bobby! I still have a few questions... posted by Louise Anderson on July 24, 1998 at 13:58:55:
Louise,
ALL very good questions!
1. Why must we avoid eating white meat and "light fish"? I can see why they would not be first choice, and the heavier purine rich foods would be preferable, but why avoid them? What harm would they cause?
They really wouldn't cause any harm but they don't have nearly the purine or the fat content that the Hunter-Gatherer metabolism needs to generate energy and more importantly the appropriate blood plasma pH. I have never had a problem eating them in the evenings -- especially if I have enough of the purine rich vegetables. You have to understand that our ancestors ate A LOT of organ meats. Today, at best, we eat a little liver. Wiley is trying to compensate for that fact. I thought that I would NEVER eat liver. I thought that it was simply gross. Now I eat it every day -- it's my favorite meal of the day. It's inexpensive, easy to chew and digest and it makes me feel great!
A good example where you would get in trouble eating one of the light meats is for breakfast. A chicken breast would not sustain you very long where a chicken thigh (with skin on) would.
2. Why must the eggs be fertilized? Is the fertilization more important than being organic and free range?
Not really. I think Wiley just felt that if the eggs were able to be fertilized that they would be of appropriate quality. Perhaps he wrote this before we had 'organic' and 'free range'. Basically if an egg is capable of becoming fertilized it would pass my test and would have to be organic or free range. I guess I'm saying that they would be essentially the same thing -- just different semantics.
3. Why are potatoes allowed? Aren't they rather high on the glycemic index? I know they are subtracted because of the O
lectins, but isn't it contrary to the fast oxidizer metabloism?
Dr. Wiley was unaware of leaky gut as well as lectins. He includes foods (such as whole wheat) that have high allergenic potential. That is why I suggest running an elimination diet first to kick out the major food offenders. Wiley was also unaware of lectins and leaky gut syndrome when he wrote BioBalance. That's why I also kick out the foods that are the worst offenders for certain blood types.
I have researched the 'glycemic index' extensively too. As you know carrots, potatoes, and certain other complex carbohydrates all have suprisingly high index numbers. In other words WHEN EATEN BY THEMSELVES they strongly stimulate the pancreas to excreate insulin -- creating glycemic instability in hypoglycemics (also called hyper-insulinism) as well as diabetics.
I have found that the key is that you NEVER eat these high glycemic index foods ALONE. Many of the foods eaten by our hunter-gatherer ancestors had very high GI (glycemic index) numbers. But they always ate these foods with their meat (which happened to contain a good dose of purine and fat). Parsnips are a good example. They have one of the highest GI numbers. Unlike the potato they are indigenous to Northern Europe and were routinely eaten -- but never raw. Take a taste of a raw parsnip sometimes. They were always used in stews or sauteed in fat -- and they are delicious that way.
My research shows that the major cooking mechanism used by recent hunter-gatherers was to throw most foods into a pot under a fire that burned continually. I don't think that raw foods were a large part of their diet. The opposite is true of the Agriculturist metabolic type.
It is interesting to note that cooking can inactivate certain lectins.
To answer your question about potatoes directly -- I don't eat them.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 24, 1998 at 13:15:38:
Sharon,
I have briefed some of Dr. Johanna Budwig's flax oil research and can only comment that it falls into the category that we now know that we need some 'essential' oils in our diet. Unless we eat unusually well we do need to suppelement them.
As far as kids go I think the safest and best bet is give them a wide range of whole foods -- including of course fish and meats. I'm scared to death what will happen if many school nutritionalists get their way and convert public schools to a completely vegetarian menu. They will see some kids really going bonkers if that happens. What I would like to see is just a whole foods menu!
Your situation reminds me of my sisters. She's a type O that married a guy from Rome, Italy who is type B. Their 3 year old is an AB blood type. I've visited Italy several times and you can't help but not be struck by the difference of the health of people there versus the U.S.
I think their advantage is two part. First, they eat whole foods almost exclusively in your diet. Second, they eat a wide variety of foods. Third, they have been eating like this with little change for a very long time. Fourth, they have had little genetic mixing (at least in Italy). What mixing has taken place has always been slow compared with the U.S. during the last 100 years.
My sister's husband is a MIXED metabolic type where my sister is an Agriculturist. Their son (right now) is Mixed or Hunter-gatherer. They all eat the same diverse whole foods diet and do fine for the most part.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Robert McFerran on July 25, 1998 at 14:43:43:
Bob,
Perhaps it was a typo on your part and you intended to say that your sister was a type A; Else their type AB son is his natural child, but not hers (type O could not have an AB progeny).
In any case, I see you're subtly drawing a potential parallel between your type B son-in-law being a MIXED type and my possibly being one, since you aready know my implied respect for some blood type correlations. And I have strongly considered this and hoped for it, because it would make eating so simple a matter. Nonetheless I am heartily consuming kielbalsa and eggs minus any toast (and couldn't choke any down) at 9:30pm - a meal that would sink me before noon. Any carbos at this time would keep me up all night, but I was fine with two pieces of Ezekiel bread and banana/yogurt shake before noon. As usual I almost didn't want to start eating in the morning; I wait until I'm truly hungry, about 10am. Don't jump to conclusions, I don't usually eat this late in the evening (found something fascinating on the web, lost track of time, found myself famished - you know how THAT is!), so it's not that I don't need food because of last night's excesses.
Good Grief! I just thought of something; maybe I switch when the sun crosses the Midheaven, having mentioned noon twice in this post. Dr. Abravanel has mentioned that loss of morning appetite is common among Thyroid types, but a plate of eggs couldn't whet my appetite at that time. I'm still seeking something that could. I have always eaten prodigious sums of cheese, but can never stomach it early in the day. After breastfeeding my daughter for a year I became quite thin and craved fat in any form, primarily cheese - wish I had known about Flaxseed oil or sardines at that time.
I'm with you for a whole foods menu in the schools. Too bad political power isn't my thing, because it's clearly headed in the direction of the Veggies and they don't show signs of sharing.
Bye for now,
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 25, 1998 at 23:17:44:
Hi, Sharon,
To Bob, Too.
I hope you both know that there is a wonderfully organized service for establishing whole foods in schools that has been growing for the past 20 years. it is the Sara Sloan Program and you can get information & statistics from them by calling (404) 768-3600. This program involves the kids, cooks, teachers, parents, administrators, school boards, etc., in an integrated & cooperative approach.
I have not contacted them for years so please let me know what you learn if you do.
Basically, the results of this program show that the kids take what they learn home to their parents--thus answering the question of whether to start with the parents or the kids. Also, violence, aggression, learning deficiencies, hyperactivity, behavioral problems, etc., all decrease by more than 80% within 3 months of starting the program (and that is with just changing ONE meal a day).
Prisons have used the same program & found the same results.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment (Whole Foods Programs) posted by Walt Stoll on July 26, 1998 at 10:38:05:
Walt,
This IS some good news in today's world. My daughter stays at home with me now, so I can offer her the best food available from Whole Foods and good ole Walmart SuperCenter, though I rarely hit the aisles seeing how all the REAL food is located on the periphery. The day is coming when she'll be partially out from under my wing and I will be bringing whatever school she attends under heavy scrutiny, not just in the area of school lunches mind you. Homeschooling isn't an option at this time and our very rural setting gives me hope the school system will be amenable to positive influences from the parents. Thank You for this encouraging information. I had never heard of this organization, though I recall Adelle Davis in the back of one of her books mentioning work in this direction; perhaps I just missed the name.
Glad to be an overprotective Mom,
Sharon
PS: My daughter has been ill exactly three times in her life. She has never required medical attention. Breastfeeding followed by a whole foods diet really work! My Mom thinks that I'm depriving her if I don't give her cookies and candy, but I think she's beginning to see the light by comparing my daughter to her other three grandchildren.
In Reply to: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 20, 1998 at 13:56:44:
Thank you for the two Diets, Agriculturist and Hunter. I got a great deal of information from these exchanges. I believe I may be Mixed. Or Agriculturist. If I had all three (or are there more than 3?), I believe I could refine my current Diet to match your input and really be eating closely to perfectly for me! I'm currently following D'Adamo's AB suggestions, with some avoids I have discovered, like sardines. Vegetarian and macrobiotic before that, concluding that each offered a step for me along the way. Thanks.
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 25, 1998 at 23:17:44:
Sharon,
I'm glad you caught that. Actually my sis is a type A, her native Italian husband is AB and her son is B. There, that should make a little more sense.
I'm not subtly drawing a parallel between you and my nephew ;). As anyone will tell you who has read much of my posting is that I LACK subtlteness. I'll tell you EXACTLY what I think :)! And I don't think that blood type infers much of anything about diet.
From everything you've said I'd say that you were a Hunter-Gather because your experiences sound so close to my own............
Bob
In Reply to: Re:Robert, Would you post the 3rd Diet? posted by Karen E. on July 26, 1998 at 13:11:14:
Karen,
There are only 3 general Metabolic subsets that were demonstrated by Dr. George Watson and Dr. Rudolph Wiley. This Mixed diet is from Dr. Wiley's book BioBalance. I'd urge anyone intested in this topic to order it from your bookstore for about $15.
Bob
NUTRITIONAL REGIMEN APPROPRIATE FOR
MIXED BIOCHEMICAL TYPES
Mixed types should calorically mix the primaries with the secondaries in a 2:1 ratio at every meal. Hence, the regimen appropriate is somewhat closer to the regimen appropriate for Hunter-Gatherers than the regimen appropriate for Agriculturist types. While tilting somewhat in favor of the primaries is a more forgiving error than tilting too far in favor of the secondaries, complete elimination of the secondaries from this regimen will cause the individual to become too alkaline and suffer accompanying distress.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Meat, Fish, Poultry:
PRIMARY: Organ meats such as liver, kidneys, brains, sweetbreads, tongue, tripe, etc.; pork ribs, bacon (*); all red meats including venison and veal; lamb; cold cuts (*) of any variety but preferably additive-free; dark meat poultry (either chicken or turkey) such as poultry wings, thighs and drum- sticks, skin may be left on when fried as desired (see methods of preparation below); duck and goose; all darker meat fish and some cold water fish either fresh, frozen or canned (*) such as salmon, dark meat tuna (often labeled as chunk light'1) especially when packed in oil (*), swordfish, dark meat bluefish, mackerel, sardines (*), herrings (*), caviar and salmon roe, all shell fish such as scallops, abalone, oysters, clams and black mussels; escargot/snails; all crustaceans such as shrimp, crab, lobster and crayfish; squid/calamari, octopus; all frankfurters of any variety but preferably additive-free, including chicken franks, beef franks, pork franks, turkey franks and soy/tofu franks (see vegetables below).
* All asterisked items are candida inducing.
SECONDARY: All light fish (either fresh or frozen) such as scrod, cod, flounder, sole, turbot, perch, haddock and fancy or solid white albacore tuna (*); chicken and turkey breast; lean pork, ham (*)
MEAT, FISH AND POULTRY OF THE PRIMARY VARIETIES
SHOULD BE EATEN AT EVERY MEAL WlTH THE OCCASIONAL EXCEPTION OF BREAKFAST.
Vegetables:
PRIMARY: All leguminous vegetables such as peas, lentils and beans of any variety including tofu (soy bean curd), potatoes especially if fried or buttered to taste (fats will be discussed below), carrots, celery, spinach, cauliflower, artichokes as well as artichoke hearts (artichoke hearts bottled in oil are acceptable) and asparagus. All produce should be fresh and well rinsed to reduce pesticide ingestion. Individuals harboring significant levels of candida may at times be sensitive to insecticides used in agricultural application. Frozen produce may be used occasionally. It is suggested that canned produce (*) be avoided if possible.
SECONDARY: Lettuce (any variety), tomatoes (any variety), cucumbers, peppers (any variety, sweet or hot), fresh garlic (garlic salt may be used sparingly), horseradish, onions (any variety) including leeks and scallions, cabbage of any variety, broccoli, broccoli raabe, mustard greens, eggplant, brussel sprouts, bean sprouts, zucchini and summer squash, kale, beets (*), sweet potatoes (*), and yams (*), gourd/autumnal squashes (*) such as Hokkaido pumpkin, buttercup squash, butternut squash and acorn squash.
Fungi
PRIMARY: All mushrooms (*)
Fruits:
PRIMARY: Avocados and olives. Bananas may be used sparingly as a dessert or part of a meal. No more than 2 or 3 bananas should be consumed weekly. All bananas should be "green tipped" and not fermented to the point of being extremely ripe. The following fruits may be eaten cored and peeled, sparingly if desired and preferably with some nut or seed butter: apples and pears.
SECONDARY: All melons and citrus fruit (whether fresh or from concentrate) such as oranges, tan
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Rboert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 23:52:09:
I'd like to know if the chicken is an avoid for AB because of a lectin. Just because it's an avoid for B does not always make it an avoid for AB. I need more protein in my diet. How long should you give up a food before you reintroduce it back into your diet? Should you then eat it everyday to test it?
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by susie on July 26, 1998 at 21:32:20:
Suzie,
I don't know if the lectin is specific for both B's and AB's.....
Here is the elimination diet. If you don't have a hyper-acute response to chicken then just eat it about 3-4 times within a couple of days to see what happens.
THE ELIMINATION DIET
I’ve often talked with folks that were confident that foods didn’t have any impact on their symptoms. I ask is if they’ve ever run a good ‘elimination’ diet and a surprising number assure me that they have. Upon further questioning I always find that they have only eliminated a couple of foods, say milk or wheat or nightshade vegetables (tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, etc.). Even though milk and wheat are common food allergens and nightshade vegetables create problems for those possessing one specific metabolism, this should not be considered a true elimination diet.
Over 85% of people with chronic disease have food allergies. Most will find not one, but a handful of foods acting as the major culprits. This is the reason why eliminating just one or two random foods is all but useless. If you were allergic to a large number of tree pollens, springtime grasses and weeds the removal of only one of these airborne allergens would usually have little impact on your total allergy symptoms. If the allergen was added back into the mix you probably wouldn’t notice. The effect from this one allergen would be hidden or ‘masked’ by your already prominent symptoms to the other allergens. The same phenomenon occurs with foods.
How could we find whether the airborne allergen in the above example was a significant factor in triggering our allergic symptoms? The best way would be to place ourselves in a room with perfectly filtered air (in essence eliminating all airborne allergens) until our allergy symptoms abated. The specific allergen would then be re-introduced and any allergic reaction noted. In this way the impact of a single, specific allergen can be isolated and tested. What was previously thought to be a rather insignificant allergen would often deliver a surprisingly strong allergic response.
We can do the same thing with foods. Historically ‘spring water fasts’ have been employed. Patients would drink only spring water for the initial 4-5 days. This type of ‘fast’ would obviously eliminate all food allergens from the diet. It was maintained for 4-5 days to also allow physical elimination of all foods eaten prior to the start of the ‘fast’ from the digestive tract.
Spring water fasts have one major problem. A significant percentage of individuals cannot tolerate them and should not try them. Their metabolic demands make any kind of extended water fast dangerous.
Fortunately years of previous testing has provided a list of ‘safe’ foods that can be temporarily substituted for your usual diet. These foods are not completely hypo-allergenic but they do have a low allergenic potential. In other words they are rarely found to induce a reaction. The foods include cod, trout, mackerel, pears, parsnips, turnips, rutabaga, sweet potatoes, yams, celery, zucchini, carrots and peaches. Any foods routinely eaten more than twice a week should be removed from the list. All the foods must be fresh and in their ‘whole’ or natural form. No cans or other packaging allowed.
Spring water or sparkling water are the only acceptable liquids. The only allowed condiment is sea or mineral salt. Steaming is an excellent method of preparing foods during your elimination diet.
Prior to starting the diet you’ll need to purchase a bottle of magnesium citrate (found in the laxative section) and alka-seltzer ‘gold’ (it’s found only in the gold colored box). All drugs should be continued. Smoking should be ceased when initiating the diet. You will not be able to eat at restaurants during the diet.
If you work Thursday evening will be the best time to begin. Wait two hours after dinner and pour one-half of the contents of the bottle of magnesium citrate into a tall glass. Add an equal amount of wat
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Robert McFerran on July 26, 1998 at 13:58:09:
You were thinking earlier that her son got his B from daddy and O from mom. Got it. Sometimes fingers have a mind of their own.
Thank You for your candor; so why didn't you just come out and say it earlier? You'll rarely offend a type B by telling it like YOU see it, if it should differ from her point of view ;). Soooo, are you telling me that hunter-gatherers might naturally eschew breakfast (I have read that the "hearty breakfast, most important meal of the day" idea was propaganda during Depression days to encourage the consumption of surpluss grains). That wasn't the impression I received from Dr. Wiley's Biobalance. He strictly insists on high purine meat at every meal - dairy and eggs not an acceptable substitute. Will you be modifying this stance in your book?
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Robert McFerran on July 27, 1998 at 12:18:53:
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by SharonJ on July 27, 1998 at 15:03:10:
Sharon,
I don't think the Hunter-Gatherers will be missing any breakfast in my book. In fact I'll have them eating even less carbohydrate and more fat than what Dr. Wiley suggests.
Dr. George Watson saw that a bit of carbohydrate is needed with every purine/protein/fat rich meal. You see, we all have two primary biochemical cycles used for the production of energy -- one for carbohydrate metabolism and one for protein. They are INTERLOCKING cycles in that one creates a biochemical intermediate that is used by the other. The problem most Hunter-gatherers have with the classic American 'Big' Breakfast is that they eat WAY too much in the way of carbohydrate with it. This overstimulates production of insulin and creates the dramatic fall in blood sugar which stresses the physiology (and makes you feel fatigued).
Obviously there is more at play than just this. Dr. Philpott observed at least 5 different types of hypoglycemia. The most common was the classic 'reactive' hypoglycemia that most physicians are familiar. A sudden rise in blood sugar levels is followed by a precipitous fall after eating the test meal. At the other extreme is flat-line hypoglycemia -- which is just that -- a flat line of blood sugar values after eating. Perhaps this is the transition from hypoglycemia to diabetes. About 5% of type II diabetics were at one time displaying hyper-insulinism, probably followed by pancreatic exhaustion leading to a diabetic blood curve.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: RE: avoid list adjustment posted by Robert McFerran on July 28, 1998 at 15:57:01:
nmi
Dr. Stoll,
I was wondering if you have any thoughts concerning tailoring your menu based on what blood type you are. I have been very sick for over a year, and have been on a blood type diet for 3 months now as a last resort. I must admit I have only seen minimal improvement, and that could be just from eating, whole, organic foods, and practicing relaxation techniques. Do you think I should give this diet more of a chance, or am I just wasting my time, and if so, why?
Thanks for the help!
Tony
In Reply to: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 20, 1998 at 13:58:34:
Tony,
To some degree you are wasting your time.
Dr. D'Adamo is correct that there are lectins in some foods that can agglutinate red blood cells -- causing localized and systemic inflammation.
Unfortunately Dr. D'Adamo is incorrect in his thesis that blood type is an indicator of inherited metabolism and therefore the types of food that you should be eating. It might have a positive correlation but that doesn't do you much good if you are one of the many that don't fit this correlation -- does it??
The success of most folks trying Dr. D's diet lies in the fact that they are simply moving to a whole foods diet that has eliminated the major food allergens. These simple recommendations alone will help about 75% of folks feel better. Unfortunately you are in that 25% that demands determining your true inherited metabolic 'type' and eating closely to those specific needs.
If you are game I'll show you how you can determine your best diet.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Robert McFerran on July 20, 1998 at 23:18:07:
...although your point that simply moving to a whole foods diet will always improve health, is well-taken. In my case, and many others, we were already following a whole-foods diet, mainly or exclusively vegetarian. The type of diet the "establishment" is now recommending for all of us--low fat, high complex carbs. I had also had comprehensive testing for food allergies, and very few showed up. Yet when I began the blood-type diet for type O, I began to feel better than I had in years. Several longstanding problems have cleared up, AND my lipid profile is better than ever. In fact, my doctor, who is a vegetarian type O and ten years younger than me, said my lipid profile, after 6 months on the type O diet, consuming considerable amounts of organic beef, is better than his! In the presence of serious health problems such as Tony has, one might expect the progress to be slower,especially if one is not following the diet strictly. I feel so good on this diet, though, that I'm not even tempted to indulge in corn-on-the-cob this summer, and that's remarkable for me. I now know the foods that make me feel great and I stick with them. Each person needs to fine-tune the diet to suit their particular biochemistry, which Dr. D'Adamo, I think, encourages people to do.Just thought I'd share my experience.
In Reply to: I beg to disagree... posted by Jenny on July 21, 1998 at 12:40:24:
I, too am an O, and have added red meats (organic of course) and more protein in general to my diet. I feel much better, and in fact I think the diet has helped me to get to the root of a couple of other problems that may never have been noticed because I was so bloated from eating so many grains and carbs, trying to be a vegetarian for 6 months, that I was REALLY sluggish and exhausted. Now, with some of my energy back, we are discovering some underlying troubles (candida, adrenal exhaustion, etc...) that actually have led me to this board
Dr. D'Adamo is very clear that the diets are a work in progress, and that they need to be personalized as people learn by trial and error what is best for themselves. He has, however, offered us all a step-up by providing certain known guidelines.
As part of the 3 legged approach to wellness that Dr. Stoll advocates, I think the diets are worth a try. Just remember that if something is obviously not working, change it! I am certain that incorporating Dr. Stoll's philosophy with my type O diet will help ME to get even better!
be well,
trish
p.s. Jenny, I tried one kernel of corn (trying to entice my bird to eat it) and it tasted like CANDY!!
In Reply to: I beg to disagree... posted by Jenny on July 21, 1998 at 12:40:24:
Jenny,
I think that you pre-supposed that I was or condoned vegetarianism. NOTHING could be further from the truth. I eat a diet very high in fat, protein and especially PURINES (if you don't know about them you really need to) while severely limiting carbohydrate.
The problem with Dr. D's theory about blood type and metabolism is exposed when you realize that I have a good friend right here on the BB who (like me) has an O blood type. He has found through trial and error (way before Dr. D'Adamo's book) that meat was killing him. He does very well with a low fat/high complex carbo diet. He would do very nicely going completely vegetarian. His name is Walt Stoll.
I on the other hand have just the opposite metabolism. When I went away from the diet I just described that worked well for Dr. Stoll I found IMMEDIATE (less than 4 days) increases in energy and well-being. Like you my bloodwork (especially HDL/LDL ratio) improved while slugging down cholesterol at rates that would give Dr. Stoll a coronary.
I don't think that you could explain why the 'type O' diet would not work for Dr. Stoll. It would be worse to tell him that he only needs to stay with it longer, or take digestive enzymes or all the other weak excuses that I've seen on his BB. The obvious answer is that here are you, I and Dr. Stoll. The three of us all have the same blood type while Dr. Stoll's inherited metabolic needs are RADICALLY different than ours. No amount of 'tinkering' could get the basic 'meat-eating' type O diet to work for Walt.
Bob
p.s. -- If you REALLY want to feel your best I can give you the appropriate diet for your metabolic type (it's the one I eat). I know which one it is since you responded well to the type O diet.
In Reply to: I'm with Jenny!! posted by trish on July 21, 1998 at 13:27:01:
Trish,
Please read my reply to Jenny.
If you or Jenny or even Dr. D'Adamo could advise an O diet that would be acceptable to our favorite doctor (Dr. Stoll that is -- who happens to be a type O) please let me know. If Walt moved away from his vegetarian fare and toward a 'meat-eater' diet and started to complain of feeling tired, gaining weight, bloodwork worsens, etc., etc. would you tell him to just hang in there, take certain supplements etc.? By the way I see this logic used every day on Dr. D's BB. Wouldn't it be better to realize that perhaps Dr. D's thesis that blood type is indicative of metabolic type doesn't work for 20-25% of the people
You said "Dr. D'Adamo is very clear that the diets are a work in progress, and that they need to be personalized as people learn by trial and error what is best for themselves. He has, however, offered us all a step-up by providing certain known guidelines". I believe that parsing out the limitations of the diet to the extent that you have described above creates such wide gaps that the bucket doesn't hold water any more.
I challenge ANYONE to develop a type O diet that would meet Dr. Stoll's needs. The broadest GUIDELINES of the type O diet would need to be changed to the point where it would resemble the type A diet more that it would the O when you are done.
Do you want to take the challenge?
Bob
In Reply to: Re: I beg to disagree... posted by Robert McFerran on July 21, 1998 at 14:24:08:
Bob, thanks for the comments. My main point was to disagree with your comment that the success of the blood-type diet for so many people could be explained by the fact that it steered them to a whole-foods diet. I think it's pretty accurate to say that in the past several years, the medical and nutritional community have been advising a whole-foods diet high in complex carbs and plant-based proteins for everyone. Many people, Dr. Stoll being one of them, do well with this diet, and need look no further. For many of us, though, that whole-foods "healthy" diet was anything but. We found ourselves with lots of problems--digestive disorders, fatigue, brain fog, unwanted weight gain even on a low-fat regimen. It's these seekers, for something besides the "orthodox" health diet who are finding help with the blood-type diet. Many of us are type O. The lectin/blood chemistry explanation may not be the WHOLE story--apparently there can be significant exceptions to it, but I think it's a remarkable contribution to the ongoing process of discovering how to create true health.
You're right, I can't explain why Dr. Stoll, as an O, doesn't do well on meat. But can you explain why when I dropped whole wheat (which extensive testing didn't show an allergy to) and added beef to my diet, I began to get well? Have you posted your diet on this board? I'd like to see how it differs from the "O" type diet I'm following now.
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 21, 1998 at 14:44:55:
If I may add my observations:
I think that what Jenny is trying to point out and that you,
Robert, may be ignoring is the concept of ElectroChemical
Individualization, which is simply that Walt is not a
statistical "O." Walt probably has various factors which
alter his biochemistry to such a degree as to render the
standard "O" diet unviable. However, it does not mean the
diet itself in invalid. There are exceptions to every rule,
and in this case, these diets are not rules so much as they
are guidelines.
My own personal opinion is that given a healthy body, with
the energy system at 99-110% the whole concept of diet type
becomes moot, with the body able to extract energy from any
food, and to transform any potential poisons into inert
substances which cannot harm the body and can be easily
passed.
Dr. D'Adamo is doing good work to help the 75-80% who are
in desperate need on his program, and the other 20-25%
will have to wait ;-( until the bugs get worked out or
until the individual factors can be mapped to find out why
the guidelines don't apply.
-Greg
(Back up for a few moments)
In Reply to: Re: I beg to disagree... posted by Jenny on July 21, 1998 at 15:12:36:
Jenny,
That low fat/high complex carbo diet that EVERYONE was espousing 10 years ago (that gave you digestive disorders, fatigue, brain fog, unwanted weight gain, etc.) was the same diet that gave me chronic fatigue and ultimately led to the development of rheumatoid arthritis. I am CONVINCED that this was the start of all my health problems. WE AGREE!
Dr. D's insight about lectins has added to our knowledge but unfortunately the idea about blood type and metabolism (eating animal based or vegetation based diets) is not. Just think what would happen to all those poor O's that were like Dr. Stoll. Dr. D's recommendations would send them down the road to sickness not health.
I forgot to ask how you were extensively tested for food allergens? The only satisfactory way that I have found is through running a proper elimination diet. I too found that I had a severe sensitivity to wheat (and all other grains for that matter) via the elimination diet. I was tested intradermally, via skin prick, and also with RAST. Two of these tests showed negative for wheat and one showed only mildly positive. So much for even the best tests..... I don't even want to mention the absurd results done by an M.D. who tested via reflexology!
Dr. Rudolph Wiley describes a diet that would probably match your metabolic type well. It has nothing to do with blood type. Metabolic typing is determined by actually testing three diets (each radically different) and determining the one that makes you FEEL the best (usually giving you a dramatic boost in energy level). Doesn't this make more sense than giving someone a diet based on something like blood type and suggesting it is appropriate even though they struggle with it?
Here is just one of Wiley's diets:
RECOMMENDATIONS
Meat, Fish, Poultry:
ALLOWED: Organ meats such as liver, kidneys, brains, sweet- breads, tongue, tripe, etc.; pork ribs, bacon (*); all red meats including venison and veal; lamb; cold cuts (*) of any variety but preferably additive-free; dark meat poultry (either chicken or turkey) such as poultry wings, thighs and drum- sticks, skin may be left on when fried as desired (see methods of preparation below); duck and goose; all darker meat fish and some cold water fish either fresh, frozen or canned (*) such as salmon, dark meat tuna (often labeled as "chunk light") especially when packed in oil, swordfish, dark meat bluefish, mackerel, sardines (*), herrings (*), caviar and salmon roe, all shell fish such as scallops, abalone, oysters, clams and black mussels; escargot/snails; all crustaceans such as shrimp, crab, lobster and crayfish; squid/calamari, octopus; all frankfurters of any variety but preferably additive-free, including chicken franks, beef franks, pork franks, turkey franks and soy/tofu franks (see vegetables below).
AVOID: All light fish (either fresh or frozen) such as scrod, cod, flounder, sole, turbot, perch, haddock and fancy or solid white albacore tuna (*); chicken and turkey breast; lean pork, ham(*).
MEAT, FISH AND POULTRY OF THE ALLOWED VARIETIES
SHOULD BE EATEN AT EVERY MEAL.
* All asterisked items are candida inducing.
Vegetables:
ALLOWED: All leguminous vegetables such as peas, lentils and beans of any variety including tofu (soy bean curd), potatoes especially if fried or buttered to taste (fats will be discussed below), carrots, celery, spinach, cauliflower, artichokes as well as artichoke hearts (artichoke hearts bottled in oil are acceptable) and asparagus. All produce should be fresh and well rinsed to reduce pesticide ingestion. Individuals harboring significant levels of candida may at times be sensitive to insecticides used in agricultural application. Frozen produce may be used occasionally. It is suggested that canned produce (*) be avoided if possible. All gourd/autumnal squashes (*) such as Hokkaido pumpkin, buttercup squash, butternut squash and acorn squash may be eaten sparingly.
Avoid: Lettuce (any variety), tomatoes (any
In Reply to: ElectroChemical Individualization posted by Greg on July 21, 1998 at 18:20:38:
Greg,
I am in no way impuning Dr. D'Adamo personally. I've conversed with him several times via Prodigy BB's as well as his own. I simply disagree with his thesis - THAT METABOLISM IS DETERMINED BY BLOOD TYPE. The logic simply doesn't hold. And when it doens't hold I hear stuff like "Walt is not a statistical "O." Walt probably has various factors which alter his biochemistry to such a degree as to render the standard "O" diet unviable" and "we will have to wait until the bugs get worked out or until the individual factors can be mapped to find out why the guidelines don't apply".
How about just realizing that the guidelines are wrong since they are based on a wrong assumption??
You said "My own personal opinion is that given a healthy body, with the energy system at 99-110% the whole concept of diet type becomes moot, with the body able to extract energy from any food, and to transform any potential poisons into inert substances which cannot harm the body and can be easily passed".
I'm afraid this is a bit fanciful. There is plenty of research to show that diet has never been moot. In fact, only now (with the help of folks like Dr. D'Adamo) are we beginning to rediscover just how important it is for health after all. The most powerful and compelling work however was the research done by Dr. Weston Price at the turn of the century. I strongly suggest that you check out his book from your local library - NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL DEGENERATION. It will change your views on diet forever.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 21, 1998 at 14:44:55:
robert,
I did not intend to make you angry by agreeing with Jenny. I was simply stating my own experience with the diet, which has been for the most part very successful. I also believe what she said about fine tuning the diet beyond the mere whole foods aspect that you brought up.
And, no I would not advise anyone who is feeling tired, gaining weight and had worsening bloodwork to stick with their current diet and depend on supplements. If you have seen this on the D'Adamo board, it wasn't posted by me. I'm sure you know of Aaron Weiland - who is of course a very non-typical A type. People are learning there, too. You obviously disagree with D'Adamo's theories, and I am not going to try to change your mind.
It seems to me that the 20-25 percent number you say are exceptions is high. Where did you come by that number?
I am not a dietician, Robert, I am simply someone who is trying to learn to be healthier, and hopefully share some of my own experiences with people who have questions. I am not up for any extra challenges right now, so as far as developing a new diet for Dr. Stoll, I just can't - but thanks for the offer.
Be well,
trish
In Reply to: Re: I beg to disagree... posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 00:01:01:
Hi, Bob & Jenny.
I hope everyone follows your discussion here. It is wonderful. People are just too different for any one approach to fit all. However, it is discussions like yours that helps the interested person to get onto the path to nutritional enlightenment (for themselves).
I can see the earliest glimmerings of lab tests that can help people decide which diet is most likely to be THEIR diet. Eventually (at the present rate within about 15 years) we will likely be able to predict what is best for an individual BEFORE their trying it. However, for now, I have to agree with Bob about the elimination/provocation approach being the most accurate.
Namaste` to you both!
Walt
In Reply to: Re: ElectroChemical Individualization posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 00:15:04:
Dear Et AL,
I think we would all agree that Peter has a point but that it does not include all people and, as such is not a perfect theory.
I predict that everything I have read that all of you are saying has truth. Eventually, it will be by combining all of this that we will come to a better theory that fits more people.
Even the physicists are looking for the "Grand Unification Theory". A diet for all humans will be at least as hard to find.
Namaste` to you all.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: I beg to disagree... posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 00:01:01:
Bob,
Is your suggestion to eliminate the avoids from the bloodtype diets IN ADDITION TO the avoids for the diet you posted? For instance, for the Type O diet, Plums are considered highly beneficial...but your post says they should be avoided. I am interested in learning more about this.
trish
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by trish on July 22, 1998 at 10:12:44:
Trish,
I'm very pleased that Dr. D'Adamo's O diet has happened to fit the metabolism that you inherited - but it was luck more than anything else that you responded in a positive way and not in a manner like Aaron Wieland (a meat-eating individual that happens to have type A blood). I happened to come across Aaron when I was scanning Dr. D's boards. The poor guy was having a dreadful time with the "A" diet even though that was his blood type. He was desperately fatigued. He was looking for help from others and all that I saw were suggestions that he needed to stay with the program for at least 3 months, that he needed to take certain supplements and give himself 'support' for different organ systems via different herbal remedies.
I immediately recognized that he had inherited a 'hunter-gather' metabolic type rather than the Agriculturist fare prescribed for blood type A's by D'Adamos's book. You see I have needed to do extensive research on diet for my book and I was very excited when Peter's book first came out. However I immediately saw where blood type did not infer metabolism. My father (who is a type O like myself) is a type II diabetic. When he eats in an agriculturist fashion (what Dr. D would suggest for a blood type A) his cholesterol and blood pressure drops, his energy increases, and his weight normalizes. His need for insulin DRAMATICALLY drops. When he tried the type O diet he noticed an immediate drop in energy, insulin demand increased precipitously as well as blood pressure. I immediately took him off of the O diet (much to his chagrin). You see my dad LOVES to eat steak and other meats. He had eaten like that the first 48 years of his life and it brought him a coronary and subsequent triple by-pass as well as hypertension and the afore mentioned diabetes.
I subsequently contacted a nurse at a nearby hospital that was one of the few sites that was running Dr. Dean Ornish's program. I asked her if she would share the distribution of different blood types that were having success with Ornish's very low fat vegetarian diet. Obviously all these folks had severe coronary and vascular disease. One might predict that because they were all doing well with a diet that most closely resembled a D'Adamo blood type A diet AND the fact that they were suffering from coronary disease that this specific population of patients would be predominantly blood type A. Guess what? They were not. There was an equally large percentage of O's.
I communicated my findings to Dr. D on his board and he suggested that the reason the O's (who should not be candidates for coronary disease) were indeed having severe coronary disease was due to their grain eating. This would throw things out of whack and ultimately create the clogged arteries, very high cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure numbers. I also asked why so many O's were doing GREAT on the A diet? Seems to me that they would fare poorly if his thesis was true. He didn't answer this question.
To debunk the grain thing I started contacting arthritis folks with type O blood that had eliminated grains to find if they were all doing best with a meat-eater diet proposed by Dr. D. They were not. About 85% of the men needed to eat a light diet and the remaining 15% were definately in the meat-eater category. These were also the general percentages for men with blood type A.
I found that 50% of the women did well with 'heavier type O-like diet fare' while the other 50% could be happy vegetarians. Once again -- blood type had little impact.
What this means is that the 20-25% exceptions that I quoted in my previous post are actually much higher for men and a bit lower for women. In other words Eat Right for Your Type suggests that 40% of the male population (that which is type O) should be eating a hunter-gather type O diet -- while in reality 85% of men SHOULD be eating a vegetarian-like diet. You can see where the mismatch is larger than for women. I'll let you do the m
In Reply to: this is very interesting.... posted by trish on July 22, 1998 at 12:15:21:
Trish,
Yes. You would do well to avoid the plums.
I have found that you can 'cheat' with the metabolic diets a bit by eating small portions of avoid foods -- usually with the evening meal. This would mean that you could have an occassional plum (only one) at the end of dinner.
HOWEVER you should NEVER eat a plum alone as a snack.
To fine tune things you should experiment with increasing fat intake (i.e. -- by eating fatty cuts of meat like rib steak rather than round steak) and severely limiting carbos. These is a balance that you will find.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: I beg to disagree... posted by Walt Stoll on July 22, 1998 at 11:41:58:
Walt,
Dr. Wiley would suggest that he already has found a parameter that could be measured by blood work -- blood plasma pH. Unfortunatley the reading has to be taken within 15 minutes after blood draw AND the pH meter needs to be sensitive to 1/100th of a pH unit.
A machine able to do this would cost about $600 and for that reason no physicians have them in their office. I have independently confirmed the blood pH phenomenon -- only through access to a hospitals laboratory and their equipment.
I think that I can guess someones general metabolic identity about 90% of the time by asking a series of psychographic questions and looking at some bloodwork values. In the end however the ONLY way to know if what you are doing is working is to try multiple diets and as you aptly put it 'listen to your body'.
Bob
In Reply to: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 20, 1998 at 13:58:34:
In this dialogue, Robert McFerran has made an important point: D'Adamo's blood type diet is based on not one but two theories. The first is that lectins have different effects on different blood types. This appears to be true, although the links to specific health issues are not yet clear in many cases. The other theory is the metabolism/meat tolerance theory, according to which type As have low tolerance for animal protein while type Os have high tolerance. This is not about lectins. As far as I can determine, it is based on two things: differences in stomach acid levels and differences in alkaline phophatase levels. Type As allegedly have lower levels of both, which is supposed to make it harder for them to digest meats properly.
But in his lecture notes, also published on the web site, Dr. D. cites research that shows that wheat germ agglutinin bind to gastrin-secreting cells in the stomach. So it's quite possible that stomach acid levels are themselves affected by lectins more than blood type.
I am one of those type As who seems to need a good amount of meat in the diet. I note that a significant number of contributors to the 'A' board say that they need to incorporate "Zone principles" (i.e., restricted carbs) to achieve weight loss and energy. Initially, Dr. D. was quite critical of the low-carb approach, claiming that it ignored the causes of the problem, but so many type As seem to need this that he appears to have relented.
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Todd Moody on July 22, 1998 at 22:01:45:
Todd,
There is even more to consider.
At one time PERHAPS blood type did indicate metabolic type -- but this occurred only in groups of people that were isolated from other gene pools.
For example the American Indians living on the western plains at one time ALL had O blood type. They also ALL had dark hair and brown eyes as well as a hunter-gatherer (meat-eater) metabolism.
At the same time there were Gaelics living on the Outer Hebrides of what is now Scotland. Their gene pool was also very poor since the violent seas surrounding them didn't allow an influx of new people and new genes. They ALL had blue eyes, fair skin and blood type O. They also happened to have a hunter-gather metabolism.
What happens when these genetically pure groups get an infusion of other blood types (which happen to have different metabolic types)? What happens as successive generations 'mix'? Things like a blue eyed child being born to parents that both have brown eyes becomes a possibility. In the same way metabolism is no longer tied blood type -- even though it might have been at one time.
The genetic mixing that we see today is simply unprecedented in the history of man. Dr. Wiley saw that this mixing is probably responsible for the phenomenon of metabolic cycling amoung pre-menstrual women. Here they would actually have different metabolic needs at different parts of their cycle. Do these women actually exist? Just ask them if they see a tremendous increase in symptom severity at different times of their cycle. Some will say no (they don't cycle) -- but an increasing number will say yes -- but for some it will be pre-menstrually, some post mensturally and still others will say the worst time is during their menses.
By the way, men can change too -- but only at the transition from adolescence to puberty, and then again at the cessation of growth (usually in the early 20's). Genetic mixing forces me to keep a very open mind when looking at the dietary phenomenon that we are observing today in comparison to that of only a couple of hundred years ago.
Bob
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 23:33:21:
Your point illustrates the larger point that there are too many variables to permit workarea priori* generalizations about diet. That some lectins have different effects on different blood types is not in doubt. That blood types are correlated with different risk for certain diseases is also fairly clear. But the correlation is far from perfect, and that in itself is a large hint that blood type tells only part of the story. Furthermore, there are many more blood antigens than the ABO antigens. I understand that D'Adamo's reason for emphasizing these is that they are not limited to blood cells but are present in other tissues as well. That makes ABO antigens more pervasive than other "true" blood antigens, but it doesn't alter the fact that the other antigens are there are affected by lectins in other ways. The mere fact that some lectins cause hemagglutination is not in itself sufficient to be a health concern. This is a normal process and the macrophages should handle it without incident.
That's their job.
I'd like to see lots more research on the lectin effects. As for metabolic types, there is nothing like direct experience. Those of us who have lost substantial amounts of weight and enjoyed better energy levels by reducing carbs do not need further persuasion that this is the way we should go.
I believe that wheat lectin makes insulin resistance worse, but I'm sure it's not the whole story. When I tried the wheat-free A diet, which is high in carbs, I promptly regained 15 pounds.
In Reply to: I beg to agree... posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 13:30:51:
Hi, Bob.
By the way, I am learning from your wonderful posts and the discussion based on them. I hope many others take the time to read them carefully.
I agree with you (and Dr Wiley) that he is onto something. Perhaps the instrument will get less expensive. I know that many of the "simple" instruments I had to get to go beyond my MD paradigm were in that range of cost. However, many of them were $3-10,000 as well. Of course, I ended up putting everything I made into patient service. As a consequence, I did not have the money to defend myself from the harassments of the Medical Licensing Board.
If you have been watching the progress of Fox Hollow, right there in your home area, you can soon see the value of having lots of money to protect yourself from the board. They started out doing exactly what I was doing & have progressed far beyond into offerings that even I think of as fringe. However Mary (their owner & producer) is a Billionaire with "old money connections". If they attack HER, they will have a tiger by the tail and they know it.
I believe the motivation of the doc is the determining factor, not the cost. $600 doesn't seem much to me once I know of the value of Dr Wiley's discovery.
Namaste` Walt
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Todd Moody on July 22, 1998 at 22:01:45:
I am new to this blood type diet stuff, and am a patient of the elder D'Adamo. I have only had minimal success, and am starting to have some doubts. I agree with most of your points, although Dr. D'Adamo does now use sub-typing. I am considered a type A with strong B tendencies, and therefore he has me eating meat.
Overall, I am still confused, and would just like to find the best diet plan so that I can get on the road to wellness. I assume you wouldn't say this is the one.
Thanks for the info.
Tony A
In Reply to: Too many variables posted by Todd Moody on July 23, 1998 at 09:41:22:
Todd,
More good stuff. Thanks!
It is interesting that the foods that reacted with my O blood type were already eliminated from my diet years before I heard about Dr. D's lectin theory. I caught most of them by running a good elimination diet -- similar to the one that I've described several times here on this board.
Having said that I've also found that some lectins do not produce a 'hyper-acute' response -- so it would elude detection during the elimination diet. I've found that only after repetitive ingestion (within a brief period of 2-3 days) of certain lectins will they accumulate in tissues and create an inflammatory response.
Lot's of variables. I appreciate your point that blood type is no longer linked metabolism. It's almost like saying that blood type and eye color are linked. They might have been at one time but genetic mixing is running us aground onto new ground.
I've attempted to find the origins (with some success) of various foods. In the end I'm finding that through analyzing lectins, running elimination diets, and metabolic diets and listening to our bodies along the ways that we are approximating what our ancestors had -- a diet that was truly built for them -- and the exuberant health that went along with it.
Question of the day. Potatoes are indigenous to what area of the world?
The answer might suprise the Irish. They were found only in southern north american until brought back to Northern Europe some 250 years ago. The people of northern europe could not be well adapted to this 'new' food.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Blood Type Diets posted by Tony A on July 23, 1998 at 13:01:50:
Tony,
Since this thread is getting pretty far down why don't you start a new thread with a subject like -- What diet would work best for me?
I'll jump in.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Too many variables posted by Robert McFerran on July 23, 1998 at 13:21:03:
Ireland is one of the places where the agricultural revolution arrived late. The transition to agriculture was not complete when the Romans invaded, only some 2,000 years ago. This alone suggests that Irish people are likely to have difficulties with agricultural diets. Their traditional diet was typical hunter/gatherer, with a strong emphasis on seafoods.
The potato was a "junk" food introduced into Ireland by the British so that they could have more of the more valuable crops of the Irish soil.
Let them eat spuds.
In Reply to: Re: Too many variables posted by Todd Moody on July 23, 1998 at 18:28:28:
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 22, 1998 at 12:51:21:
Robert
I'm one of those Type A's who does much better on a high protein, low carb diet. When I converted to that, I lost 12-14 lbs, lost the bloating and gas, and got more energy. I still have LGS and probably candida, but I'm working on my relaxation, eating as much whole foods as possible, and taking supplements. I do expect to get better in 6-12 months.
I had fibroid tumors, which eventually led to a hysterectomy. Frankly, getting all that out (my ovaries were already atrophied), has been a blessing to me, knowing that I don't ever have to worry about getting cancer in any of those organs. Perhaps if I'd read this BB before my surgery, I would have waited to see if the bleeding stopped, though.
BTW, have you read SUGAR BUSTERS! ? The way they explain the insulin connection as it relates to weight gain is very interesting. My diet is very similar to that, except that I do eat carrots, and I don't eat artificial sweeteners, among other things. When is your book due out? Soon, I hope!
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by NANCY on July 24, 1998 at 21:04:00:
Nancy,
All my work and research about diet has revolved around one fairly simple goal -- and that is to approximate what my ancestors were eating when then they exhibited exuberant health. Reading Dr. Weston Price's book -- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration left quite a mark on me and a better understanding of how our ancestors could not only have survived but THRIVED without dentists and other physicians not to mention the mass of pharmacological remedies (drugs) that we rely on so heavily today.
I've done quite a bit of research in the area of anthropology in an attempt to better understand how some of human nutritional diversity unfolded. What I am left with now is that it really is impossible to know EXACTLY what would be someone's best diet. Too much genetic mixing -- especially during the last 100 years. That leaves us with trying to best approximate what will work for us. In my book I am suggesting:
A) Run a six day elimination diet to remove probable food allergens.
B) Add foods from your appropriate metabolic diet one by one -- testing them to be sure there is no sensitivity.
C) Avoid certain lectin containing foods based on your blood type.
All along the way you have to listen to your body to tell you what to do -- but in the end I'm confident that the work you exert to compile your very individualized diet will serve you better than anything that we know of -- yet ;).
I have read Sugar Busters and while I agree generally with the thesis it makes the mistake of not completely understanding the metabolic diversity that is in play. Of course all the dietary recommendations I suggest (out of necessity) are whole foods.
I thought that I would have my book to a publisher by now. Guess again I guess!! Hopefully when this nice weather goes away I'll buckle down so I can have it out early next year. Thanks for the interest.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 25, 1998 at 13:04:00:
OK Robert,
Assuming that Peter D'Adamo doesn't have it quite right (although a
success rate of 75-80% is pretty high for something that
doesn't work), what is the deciding factor or factors which
determine what is a "good" diet?
How does bloodtype, metabolic rate, metabolic type and gene
purity (if there is such a thing) combine or not combine to
determine what I should or should not be eating?
-Greg
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 25, 1998 at 13:04:00:
Hi, Bob.
In MY experience, one can plan on at least a year longer to get a book published than one reasonably thinks it "should" be.
Do you have the date of publishing, and the publisher, for Price's book? I used to have it & have lost it. Also, if you know of the most recent edition????
I recommend it to people but am lost when I need to tell them the above.
Thanks, Walt
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Walt Stoll on July 26, 1998 at 09:42:11:
Walt,
I'll have to get back to you on this one. I've got a friend that has my personal copy of Dr. Price's book right now.
I know that there is a Price-Pottenger Foundation that has even more information on the work of Dr. Price and Dr. Pottenger (of cat study fame). They have a web site and Kirk Morgan tells me that he has their phone number. I really need to give them a call and see if I can extract anything else in this area.
Bob
In Reply to: I'm not with anyone anymore. I just want to learn. posted by Greg on July 26, 1998 at 09:07:21:
Greg,
Walt said it best in his book when he uses the quote "Standing on the shoulders of Giants".
The context of his remark is that he has sought to not focus as much on what previous 'Giants' in medicine CONCLUDED with their work BUT rather to look at what they OBSERVED. Walt, having the perspective of hindsight along with new research or research that the 'Giant' was unaware of -- allowed Dr. Stoll to synthesize new ideas or look at them in a different way.
The truth of the matter is that I've done the same thing. I'm a 'knock-off artist' if you will that has looked closely at what each 'Giant' has observed -- and have combined their observations to create something that works as closely to 100% of the time as possible.
So you see Peter D'Adamo, along with Dean Ornish, George Watson, Rudolph Wiley, Walt Stoll, Roger Williams and a long list of others are the 'Giants' here -- I am standing on their shoulders trying only to understand why and how they arrived at their conclusions. You might be surprised to know that none of the giants that I've just listed were aware of ALL the published work done by the other giants. If you read ALL the giants work you might initially see conflict with what they concluded. But if you back up a bit and focus on what they observed you will see that many were seeing the same thing but just didn't know what it was at the time.
Having said all that I'll try to answer your questions specifically.
Blood type does not determine metabolic type. If you use blood type to determine what you should eat you are relying on luck.
The deciding factor in what you should be GENERALLY eating should be based on testing 3 radically different metabolic diets and going with the one that gives you the most energy. In order to effectively test the metabolic diets all major food allergens should be pulled out of your diet (via an elimination diet) beforehand. Lectin containing foods that interfere with your specific blood type should also be withdrawn. This will yield your best diet and is not based on luck.
I'm never used the term 'metabolic rate' since it creates confusion. I'd suggest you and others discard it when trying to understand metabolism. Hunter-gatherers will have optimized burn, 'metabolic rate' and energy level if they are eating the proper diet. Agriculturists will have the same if they eat the appropriate diet. Too often I will hear someone say that they have a very fast metabolic rate which is their way of saying that they can eat a lot of 'heavy' fatty foods and still stay thin. They are fortunate to have landed upon a diet that matched their inherited metabolic type. Meanwhile a person that has trouble with weight gain is said to have a slow metabolic rate. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem is that they've been UNLUCKY enough to eat a diet mismatched to their metabolic type.
Gene purity holds little importance unless there was NO or very little genetic mixing in a group of people for say the last 5,000 years. If we could go back a couple of hundred years there were many pockets of indigenous people that would fit this bill. They would simply do best to eat the same diet their parents did. With the rapid genetic mixing (note I'm not saying racial mixing or anything like that) that we've experienced during the last 200 years we cannot stay well by simply eating the diets our parents ate.
In the words of Clint Eastwood -- "You just have to ask yourself one question -- do you feel lucky?" I believe the question of what you should eat shouldn't be left to luck.
In Reply to: Re: I'm not with anyone anymore. I just want to learn. posted by Robert McFerran on July 26, 1998 at 14:55:21:
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders."
"In computer science, we stand on each other's feet."
In Reply to: Re: I'm with Jenny!! posted by Robert McFerran on July 26, 1998 at 14:10:43:
Thanks, Bob!
I would appreciate ANY and ALL of that information so I could get back in touch with these wonderful pioneers.
If the AMA just would do exactly as this foundation recommended, the medical costs would be cut by more than 90% in a generation. It would only take that long because of the public's demonstrated resistance to helping themselves.
Of course, why would a dedicated member of the AMA want to see his/her income cut by 90%????
Namaste` Walt
Hi Robert,
I have a really fast metabolism and an autoimmune disease. I have always more or less strived to be a vegeterian. I even was on the Pritikin diet (no fats) for 2 yr. I started ther hunter-gatherer diet recently. The first two days felt great. Now I am excessively sleepy. I feel like I do after I do skilled relaxation, only kind of glumpy too. Before I started the H-G diet I would have to get up at 3 a.m. and eat some more so I could sleep. Is it normal to feel this way at first?
Also, would it be ok to drink green tea with the H-G diet or would it throww the results off? Green tea is so beneficial with the antioxidants and all. My autoimmune disease is a collagen disorder and green tea inhibits the formation of collagen, so I hate to give it up.
I appreciate any answers you can give me.
Linda
In Reply to: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Linda on July 25, 1998 at 10:40:35:
Linda,
I'm glad that you asked this question since you might not be aware that there are THREE general metabolic types. Most of the activity here on this BB has centered on me describing the two extremes. What I call the Agriculturist and the Hunger-gatherer. I label the third the MIXED metabolic type. Here is an exerpt from my book that describes how this metabolic subset might have evolved (at least in Europe).
So what really happened as the agriculturists migrated into Europe? Why didn’t the hunter-gatherers give up their hand to mouth existence in favor of farming? Why didn’t the populations of these new farmers grow and ultimately displace the less sophisticated hunter-gatherers?
The chief reason the hunter-gatherers did not convert to the cereal based diet of the of the migrating agriculturists is that they simply could not. Their finely tuned biochemistry would not allow it. While these humans might have looked similar on the outside the metabolic processes responsible for converting food into energy within them were as different as oil and water.
The hunter-gatherer biochemistry was built to utilize fat and required purines as a key ingredient in the production of energy. Purines, while found in some vegetables, are most heavily concentrated in meat, especially the organ meats (liver, kidney, etc.) of animals. The hunter-gatherer biochemistry also needed some carbohydrate to create energy. Small amounts of vegetation provided this component. It’s important to note that relatively small amounts of carbohydrate would strongly stimulate the pancreas to release the proper amount of insulin in hunter-gatherers. Excessive carbohydrate would over-stimulate the pancreas into releasing too much insulin. High carbohydrate consumption in those who have inherited a hunter-gatherer metabolism creates ‘hyper-insulinism’ (too much insulin). The result is hypoglycemia.
In contrast the agriculturist biochemistry demanded carbohydrate from fruits and vegetables as their primary source for generating energy. Intake of even moderate amounts of purines and especially fat would sabotage this conversion. A relatively large percentage of total calories would be needed from carbohydrate sources in order to stimulate the pancreas into producing adequate amounts of insulin. Too much fat and purine would tend to induce a diabetic (high blood sugar) curve in these individuals.
Without a doubt there were some dietary changes made on both parts when the migrating agriculturists came in contact with hunter-gathers. But, unlike their present day progeny, our ancestors were quick to realize that these dietary changes precipitated in a loss of health. Without access to today’s pharmacopoeia of symptom suppressing drugs, they were forced to find the source of their lost wellness. The hunter-gatherers learned rather quickly not to assimilate the new agricultural foods into their diets.
Much of the land that the migrating agriculturists found during their movement north was simply not amenable to farming. They would continue their search and ultimately succeed in finding small pockets of land that were more hospitable to agriculture and especially grain production. Geneticists have confirmed today that there was no widespread agricultural revolution that took place during this migration. Rather there was only a relatively small ‘seeding’ of the agriculturists (and their genes) in a few select areas of Europe.
While neither group could assume the other’s diet, that didn’t stop the flow of ideas. Language, pottery and tool making technology flowed from the new-comers to the native inhabitants of Europe. Perhaps the most important innovation in this transfer was animal husbandry. Meat from domesticated animals would be the key to the survival of the hunter-gather and the perpetuation of their genes to this day. Herds of domesticated animals sustained them by providing a new source of meat to augment their hunting activities. For the first ti
In Reply to: Re: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Robert McFerran on July 25, 1998 at 13:36:13:
Robert,
Thank you! It is very generous of you to give me this diet. Wow! This diet gives me the best of both worlds.
For some reason I went through menopause at a young age. My rheumatologist said she doesn't know and gynecologist said I may be too thin and told me to get some fat. I gained 5 lb, but it didn't help. I also was running 12-20 mi/wk and cut that in half, but it didn't work either. I can't tolerate HRT, it makes me hypoglycemic and unable to tolerate carbohydrates at all.
You know, I really hate green tea. Thanks for telling me not to drink it.
Do you think that if I follow this mixed diet it will improve my autoimmune disease. I practice skilled relaxation also. I know stress played a part in my disease, but wonder if being a vegetarian for so long may have also contributed.
Thanks again. I will let you know how things are going in a couple weeks.
Linda
In Reply to: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Linda on July 25, 1998 at 10:40:35:
Dear Linda,
Hope you will forgive me butting in here with MY 2 cents.
Your note tells me that you have severe Leaky Gut Syndrome which you will not resolve with diet alone. With LGS, you will not process ANYTHING you eat like any normal person.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Robert McFerran on July 25, 1998 at 13:36:13:
Kudos, Bob!
What a labor of love!
Namaste` Walt
In Reply to: Re: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Walt Stoll on July 26, 1998 at 09:31:45:
Walt,
Thank you for butting in. I know I have LGS. I went through biofeedback last year (6 sessions) and now practice skilled relaxation. I did really well for 6 months. Then my daughter became sick and had surgery and I wasn't able to control my stress. I also have bruxism, bracing and Raynauds. I am back in biofeedback and recently signed up for Thi Chi. I'm working on it slowly, but surely.
Thanks for your concern.
Linda
In Reply to: Re: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Linda on July 26, 1998 at 09:14:03:
Linda,
In a post further down the board I just labeled myself as being a sort of a 'knock-off artist' when it comes to trying to determine your BEST diet.
I'm not that completely though. One major thesis of my book is that eating a diet mismatched to inherited metabolic needs creates an amino-acid deficiency NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU EAT. Amino acids are the building blocks of EVERYTHING in our bodies that need to be routinely generated or regenerated. In this case cells, hormones, digestive enzymes, etc., etc. I won't bore you with how I came across this but I can tell you in EVERY instance where I've seen someone eating a diet mismatched to inherited metabolic needs they have an amino acid deficiency. This deficiency resolves as do much of their symptoms when they begin eating the proper metabolic diet. THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF SKILLED RELAXATION (they weren't doing any at the time) and candidiasis treatment. I have witnessed women who have had trouble conceiving become pregnant within 6 months of changing their diet. The most dramatic was a Toronto woman who had her menses stop at 38. She was a runner eating a vegetarian diet who had inherited a Hunter-Gatherer metabolism. She and her husband wanted a child and she first thought that her running was causing the problem. When she started having symptoms of chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia and cessation of her menses she new something was really wrong. She had an amino acid profile run that showed her deficient in 38 of 40 amino acids. She converted to the hunter-gather diet and within 3 months started having periods again. Another 3 months later she was pregnant. Here is a case of a woman with an EXTREME metabolism that was eating on the other EXTREME with disasterous results. She undoubtably had leaky-gut because she had 3 very strong food sensitivities but she hadn't yet developed candida related syndrome.
I give this example not to undermine other therapies but to add that eating a diet mismatched to inherited metabolic type is THE MAJOR UNDIAGNOSED PROBLEM in folks with auto-immune diseases and perhaps a much broader range of chronic conditions.
Determining what types of whole foods that you eat is important and shouldn't be left to lucky.
I hate giving examples like the one above since folks will tend to think that the metabolic diet is the ONLY thing that they need to do. If it is the only source of their problem it will be the only thing they need to do. Too often it is not.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Question for Robert McFerran posted by Robert McFerran on July 26, 1998 at 15:24:29:
Hi Bob: thanks a million for posting the intermediate diet.
I always felt I was not a typical hunter-gatherer and these
recommendations sound just right for me. Will try. Martha
Robert:
I'm new to this board and I've been reading through and found alot of what you're saying very intriguing. I have been suffering from supposed CFS for over a year now, and have tried various diets to help alleviate my IBS, gastritis, borderline hypoglycemia, chronic weakness, and many other problems. Your diet plans seem very interesting, and I was wondering if you felt it could help with my problems. I was also wondering what your diets are based on. I saw you mentioned a Dr. Wiley, and you also mentioned your own book. Where can I get copies of these books? I don't see either of your books in my library or health stores. For that matter, I can't find Dr. Stoll's either.
I used to eat a lot of dairy, eggs, pasta, and cold cuts, in addition to many fruits and vegetables, before I got ill, and besides getting a lot of headaches, I was in very good health. Since I've gotten ill, my naturopathic doctor has put me on a mostly vegetarian diet, with only turkey or fish once a day. I can't combine starches with animal protein, or fruits with anything (and eating them alone kills my stomach), among various other rules. Since beginning this diet I feel a little better, but not much. The only thing that has really improved has been that I haven't had even one headache in 2 months. (I don't know if this is from the diet, or from switching over to organic foods and practicing yoga and meditaion.) But I'm always hungry, always craving sugar, and the few times I went off the diet and ate pizza, ice cream, and cake I felt a lot better, though I don't think this diet would be good for every day. I'm so confused. I read so much about the benefits of vegetarianism, yet a lot of your diet and some of my own experiences seem to contradict this. What do you think? (By the way, I'm of mostly Italian descent, mixed with German and Scoth-Irish.) I'd really be interested in reading your book.
Sincerely,
Jerry T
In Reply to: Re: Another Question for Robert McFerran posted by Jerry T on July 27, 1998 at 10:48:49:
Jerry,
It IS very intriguing isn't it??
I don't have my book out yet but in the last section I describe my personal experience which, like yours, was anything but a straight line discovery. I guess I read books by Pritikin, Dr. Adkins, Dr. Ornish, Dr. Philpott, Dr. Roger Williams, Dr. Robert Haas, Dr. George Watson, Dr. Pottenger, Dr. Weston Price, Dr. Rudolph Wiley, Dr. Theron Randolph, Dr. Stoll, Dr. D'Adamo and talked with three different Nutritional Anthropologists (I didn't even know there was such a thing as a 'Nutritional' Anthropologist -- but we have 5 right here in the U.S.). I tried to understand what they were observing when they had successes and failures with their patients. You could read their books but might only be confused since each had varying and sometimes far differing conclusions. In each instance I found that they were correct in that they were being truthful about their observations; but that they were also incorrect because usually their work tended to focus on one group of people -- the ones that had the most success with their recommendations. From this success generalizations were made suggesting that their dietary recommendations were appropiate for everyone.
Dr. Stoll's book can be ordered directly from this web site using a 1-800 number and credit card. Dr. Wiley's book BioBalance can be ordered from any large bookstore.
It looks as though you might be an A blood type (since a Naturopath prescribed this incorrect diet) and you felt somewhat better when you 'cut out the junk food' and went to a good whole foods diet. The problem is that diet is totally inappropriate for you. The reason why you have those intense sugar cravings is due to the lack of fat and especially purines in your diet. You are undoubtably still consuming WAY to much in the way of carbohydrate. Purines found in dark meats, organ meats and crustaceans are critical to your inherited Hunter-Gatherer metabolism to generate energy.
Your headaches and then fatigue were real live warning signs that you were developing leaky gut syndrome. Even though the skilled relaxation has helped you 'normalize' to the point where you don't have the headaches -- personally I don't believe that you will ever heal your leaky gut until you eat a diet matched for your inherited metabolism. Until you do that you will have amino acid deficiencies (no matter how much you eat) which will hamper the much needed cellular regeneration of the epithelial tissues of the intestinal mucosa.
You could just start eating the Hunter-Gatherer diet BUT if you REALLY want to find your best diet I think that you should run a 6 day elimination diet and then segue into your appropriate metabolic diet by testing the foods (one by one) from the Hunter-Gatherer diet. I would also eliminate foods that might contain lectins inappropriate for your blood type.
Jerry, I'd appreciate it (if you have it) if you'd share your uric acid and cholesterol (including HDL/LDL ratio) with us.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Another Question for Robert McFerran posted by Robert McFerran on July 27, 1998 at 17:26:47:
Robert (and Jerry)
I hope you don't mind my interjecting a question here. What lectins are inappropriate for type A blood? For that matter, what exactly are lectins? You determined that I am a "hunter'gatherer" some months ago.
Thanks alot!
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Another Question for Robert McFerran posted by Nancy on July 27, 1998 at 17:42:19:
Nancy,
Dr. Peter D'Adamo advises in his book EAT RIGHT FOR YOUR TYPE that blood type A's should avoid Milk, Kidney Beans, Lima Beans, Wheat and Tomato.
Lectins are a component of proteins found in many foods that have been shown to have the ability to agglutinate or glue themselves to red blood cells or other specific tissues. Trouble breaks out when the concentration of these lectins in tissues becomes so high that they trigger an inflammatory cascade -- which creates symptoms and damages tissue.
Bob
p.s. -- how is the diet working?
In Reply to: Re: Another Question for Robert McFerran posted by Robert McFerran on July 28, 1998 at 00:21:36:
Thanks, Robert. I just got finished reading your responses to Tony, which I'm following with great interest. Wheat is going to be the toughest to eliminate for me. I've already cut out tomatoes (night shades) and don't eat the beans anyway. Do you mind if I ask whether or not cottage cheese is a problem? I've been eating alot of that for liver detox and in combination with flax seed capsules for better assimilation.
Nancy
In Reply to: Re: Another Question for Robert McFerran posted by Nancy on July 28, 1998 at 21:20:34:
Nancy,
Milk is one of those things that has a high allergenic potential simply because we are exposed to it so often in what we eat. This is one reason why I so strongly recommend running an elimination diet before settling in with the appropriate metabolic diet.
If you don't want to run the elimination diet I'd eliminate the cottage cheese for a week and see how you feel. Then reintroduce it and see how you feel.
Wheat is tough to eliminate. My brother in law from Rome Italy commented on his first U.S. visit that he was disappointed in the food -- since everything comes on a bun.
Bob
Robert,
It took me this long to figure out what a new thread meant. Well here it is. I don't know if you need any info about me or what, but I would definitely like to know what you think is the best diet for me, or how you think I should go about finding it. Thanks!
Tony A
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-What diet is best for me? posted by Tony A on July 27, 1998 at 10:59:24:
Tony,
First a few questions. What is your uric acid level as well as cholesterol (including HDL/LDL ratio) and triglycerides? You don't have to have this redone. I'm sure that your doctor has performed these tests at some juncture if you've had any health problems.
Have you ever had a five hour glucose tolerance test?
What are you eating now?
Are you taking any medications? Would you consider yourself under or overweight?
How do you react to coffee, tea, or caffeinated soft drinks -- like A or B?
A. Caffeinated drinks change everything for me. I don't know why/how everyone doesn't drink them. At work I usually have several cups of coffee in the morning and a few in the late afternoon. I can drink coffee late into the evening and have no problem going to sleep.
I really don't really have to eat much of anything for breakfast and I can even miss lunch without problem before having a good dinner in the evening.
B. While I might have a diet soda with caffeine I have to watch out since if I have too much or drink it too late it will interfere with my sleep. If I drink more than a couple of cups of coffee without eating something with it I'll get jittery and not feel well.
I've found that I tend to eat several snacks or small meals throughout the day. I'll eat breakfast and I'll be hungry within hours and need a candy bar or something to give me a lift until lunch. I find that I really get drowsy about 45 minutes after a meal.
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-What diet is best for me? posted by Robert McFerran on July 27, 1998 at 13:17:02:
Robert:
I just got your message. It amazes me how you are willing to be so helpful. I wish there were more people around like you.
I don't know all the answers to your questions off hand so I'll go home and get my bloodwork and look everything up so I can give you the complete info. The lab work is about 5 months old though, because I haven't had any bloodwork since I turned to alternative medicine.
I just wanted to say thank you in the mean time.
Tony
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-What diet is best for me? posted by Tony A on July 27, 1998 at 13:26:42:
Robert,
Here is the information you requested. The most recent bloodwork I have is 9 months old (10/7/98), which was 4 months after I got sick (6/15/97). I hope that's okay.
Uric Acid 5.0
Cholesterol 200
Triglycerides 118
HDL 57
LDL 119
As far as what I'm eating now, it is vastly different from what I was eating before I got sick, when I was very phyically active (all sports, bodybuilding), and never got sick except for bad headaches (which I had all of my life), and a few bouts of bad chest congestion during each year. I used to live on dairy (cheese on everything), cold cuts, pasta, eggs, some cereals, fruits, and vegetables. Nothing was organic. I would eat whatever I wanted, and never gain a pound, or get ill. It was pretty common to eat a half a gallon of ice cream a night right before going to bed. I ate this way until I was about 22 (I'm 28 now), and then I started to tone things down a little. But I still always ate whatever I wanted, and a lot of it. I was never much into candy though - ice cream or cake was my main source of sweets.
Now, for the last 3 months I've been on the D'Adamo type A diet,and I guess you know what I've been eating. The father's diet is a little different then Peter's, so I'll tell you exactly what I've been eating:
Fish (scrod, halibut, flounder, haddock, turbot)
Turkey (occasionally chicken)
Cereal (amaranth, spelt, kamut,quinoa)
Fruits (grapefruit, lemon, blueberries, raspberries)
Vegetables (kale, escarole, carrots, celery, swiss chard, broccoli, all squash, chickory, dandelion, occasionally peas, lettuce, and sprouts)
Tofu (constantly!)
Nuts (almonds, walnuts)
Seeds (pumpkin, sunflower)
Oils (olive, sesame, sunflower, safflower)
Breads (spelt, Ezekial)
Brown and Wild Rice
Other (tamari, miso, kelp, dulse, ginger, tumeric, garlic, oregano, basil)
Teas (dandelion, chamomile, slippery elm, goldenseal, licorice, strawberry, and nettle)
Medications from Dr D'Adamo are:
Multi Vit A form
Gastramet (which I believe I have a reaction to every time a take it from the Licorice, as the same thing happens when I drink the tea)
Ester C
Chromium
B12-B2
B6-B2
Bonemeal
Potassium
Astricumeel (homeopathic remedy for stomach)
Dr D'Adamo's own:
Protein powder
Pancreas formula
Adreanl formula
Cat's Claw
Papaya
DGL (which I also believe I'm having a bad reaction to)
I would say my weight is about right. I have never been overweight at all, and now I am actually a little thin for myself. Before I got sick, I was 5'5", 160, but I was all muscle. Since my digestive system went, I lost a lot of weight, and I now hover between 135 and 140.
As for the caffeine reaction, I would say I lean towards B. I never really drank soda or coffee, only water, so caffeine wasn't much of an issue. If on the rare occassion I did have a candy bar, I would get a little jumpy, but I always thought it was from the sugar. Also, I never used to really be that hungry in the morning, but I just trained myself to eat. If I didn't eat breakfast, I could go without eating for a while (not past lunch though), until about age 20. But when I did eat breakfast, I would be hungry in a couple of hours, and hungrier all day. Since I was about 22, I began having to eat more frequently, or I would get very irritable, shaky, and headachy, especially after working out. This was all before I got sick. Now I definitely fit into the B eating pattern, although I don't get tired after meals anymore (unless I eat a big one). I used to always get tired after meals though, because I always ate a lot.
So I think that pretty much covers everything. But I might as well ask you a few questions now since I know I'll have them later.
My main symptoms right now are massive digestive system problems, very bad brain fog (that usually gets better with eating, especially with a big meal, and gets very bad about 20 minu
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-Here's the info you requested posted by Tony A on July 27, 1998 at 20:03:23:
Tony,
Let me just be sure that you weren't kidding -- you are Jerry T. too?
Assuming the above it's evident that you want to get your life back. I've talked about how the D'Adamo diet is based on luck and I'm afraid that you haven't been very lucky. You are a type A and while you should avoid Milk, Kidney Beans, Lima Beans, Wheat and Tomato you have inherited a hunter-gatherer or mixed metabolism. Both are much higher in purines and fat than what you are eating now.
I would suggest that you run the elimination diets since I know you have leaky gut and therefore some food allergies. Running the elimination diet will allow you to 'clear'. When you begin re-introducing foods you will only do those from the Hunter-Gatherer diet. By doing this you will be upping your fat and purine intake while severely limiting carbohydrate. If you feel good and then after a couple of days begin losing that newfound energy level we'll just alter that ratio a bit and push you more toward the Mixed metabolic diet. There is a logic to this in that you always start at an EXTREME (in your case Hunter-Gatherer) and then if that doesn't work you know which way to go -- toward the middle.
Odds are VERY high that you also have Candida related syndrome. You didn't say they were migraines BUT there is a very strong correlation between migraine and candidiasis. One of the other GIANTS that I have failed to mention is Dr. John Mansfield. He wrote a book on his observations of the strong link between candidiasis and migraine in his book The Migraine Revolution.
The only way that I recommend that you diagnose this is with an antibody titer test from Antibody Assays. Please take a look at their web page at antibodyassay.com
Make sure that you get the 3 titers done plus Immune Complexes to Candida Mannan as it is the most Objective Marker of Candida Overgrowth that we currently have. This test should be done by an M.D. since if you have high titers you will need at least a 6 month prescription for a powerful antifungal (like sporanox or lamisil). I'm afraid your N.D. won't be able to do this. If you are fortunate enough to have fungus toe nails you can 'go around' the system by going to a podiatrist. He'll give you the prescription for your nails -- when you really want/need it to deal with the candidiasis.
I think if you do the diets, keep up with the skilled relaxation and aggressively deal with the candidiasis you can have your life back in 6 months. I might have some other ideas to help you re-balance your intestinal flora. It won't happen overnight, but you'll start seeing significant improvement within 2 months.
Mixing animal proteins with starches is o.k. just as long as you don't eat much of them. You'll start with a high protein/fat/purine ratio to carbohydrate and then titrate up. You'll listen to you body and it will tell you what works best.
Thanks for your kind words. You might have some other descriptive terms for me during days two and three of the elimination diet.
I'm not a doctor but have a strong background in chemistry and biochemistry. I've worked in the medical field as a management consultant for physicians where I dealt with clinical as well as business issues so I'm aware of the realities of the allopathic monopoly. I became ill with chronic fatigue and then rheumatoid arthritis about 10 years ago. It took about 8 years of 'searching' for the truth and searching for the cure before things (ideas, theories, etc.) started to converge. Before that it seemed like all the information that I was gathering was DIVERGING -- going in different directions. It was utterly confusing. That's the reason for the book. To build a logical arguement that shows how/why different therapies might work -- that might compel folks to give them a try.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-Here's the info you requested posted by Robert McFerran on July 28, 1998 at 00:11:12:
Rob,
Well you're too fast for me. I had forgotten to give you the GTT results you asked for. You already gave me your recommendations, but I'll give it to you anyway.
Morning BS 75
After Sugar 117
107
100
64
71
I also forgot to tell you that I'm taking a Mag & Zinc tablet and Acidophilus. This reminds me, should I continue with all of my D'Adamo pills on your diet? Many of them were made to compensate for things not in the diet he gave me (high doses of B-12, for example), and he surely isn't go to change my supplements to accomodate a change in the diet HE gave me. What do you think?
The doctor who did the GTT said I was borderline hypoglycemic. A few months later, Dr. D'Adamo just took a sugar level in his office and it was 65. He said I was hypoglycemic. When I went back two months later, it was 81 and he said the hypoglycemia was cured. Neither of these were fasting levels.
First of all thanks so much for the info and the diet. I had already printed the mixed diet last night (it's the only one I could find) based on what you had said to my alias (I wasn't kidding). And after looking at it, I have a few questions.
First,is the hunter-gatherer diet somewhere on this site?
I don't have that one, only the mixed.
I have to say I was pretty impressed that you knew I was a type A just by what I wrote. I don't know how you figure this stuff out. And when you wrote about me needing more fats, I think you were right on. I have always functioned better when I ate alot of fat, but I tried to steer away from that, because as I got older, I got conditioned to listen to my mind instead of my body. Up until I was about 23, I probably literally ate about 6,000 calories a day, with about 200 grams of fat. And I never gained a pound, but I also worked out a lot. My father is the same way, although he didn't eat to the extreme I did.
The whole time I've been ill, if I could stomach a meal with a lot of fat, my energy level would be a lot better. As a matter of fact, the whole time I've been sick, it seems that if I can eat a lot (almost to the point of being sick), my energy and dazes improve, and I don't get the sugar cravings, but my digestive system pays the price. So I never know how to eat. I'm sure it's not healthy to eat yourself sick at every meal though.
Of course since I've been on the D'Adamo diet, which I have followed religiously for three months, I haven't had much fat at all, and I'm never satisfied at any meal - I keep loading up on carbs until my stomach feels like it's going to burst.
You mentioned yesterday about headaches being from leaky gut. I don't really think that's the case, although I don't doubt I probably have leaky gut now. I've had headaches since I was about 7 years old (yes they were migraines - how did you know that too?), and I don't think I had leaky gut then. I don't say this to be argumentative, I just want to know the cause, as headaches have played a major role in my life. (My mother also suffered from migraines all her life, until she died of Leukemia at age 24, so maybe they're hereditary?)
Since I started Dr. D'Adamo's diet, I honestly have not had one headache, except for a couple of really hot days, which I always get headaches on. I attributed this to cutting out all dairy and meats. I had always eaten a lot of dairy and cold-cuts. (This is one reason I am afraid of the hunter-gatherer diet. I really don't want my headaches back.) I'm sure the meditation helps the headaches, but I didn't start that until a headache free month after the D'Adamo diet, so I think it was the diet.
Another concern I have about eating meats is it's effect on the digestive system. I have read so much about meat being difficult to digest, and that it should avoided, especially in people with IBS, gastritis and ulcers, so naturally I am a little afraid to consume it. Do you really believe it will help my condition? I am not afraid to eat meat - I enjoy it in moderation.
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-Something I forgot posted by Tony A on July 28, 1998 at 10:57:23:
Tony,
Thanks for the info on the 5 hour glucose tolerance test. I don't know where your physician got the idea that you were borderline because YOU ARE hypoglycemic. The simple fact that your blood sugar dropped below your original fasting value is, by definition, hypoglycemia.
The good news is that you can throw out the Mixed diet. ALL HYPOGLYCEMICS (as measured by a five hour glucose tolerance test) HAVE INHERITED A HUNTER-GATHER metabolism. I'll re-post it at the end of this post.
I am really disappointed that anyone would suggest that your hypoglycemia is 'cured' by simply taking a fasting OR non-fasting sugar level. It's really obscene. At the same time hypoglycemia IS NOT A DISEASE that has to be treated with something like DGL (de-glycerinized licorice) -- it is instead an indication of your true metabolic identity! In this case your true identity is an EXTREME one -- in that it lies on one of the extreme sides of the human metabolic spectrum.
I guessed that you were a blood type A based on the diet that you were given by a Naturopath. Soon every Naturopath in the country will (unfortunately) be prescribing diets based on blood type. Even more unfortunate will be the suffering of patients like yourself who simply weren't 'lucky'.
Don't worry - you won't be eating yourself sick. There are two reasons. First you will have eliminated food allergens that can sometimes cause these symptoms. Second, you'll find that you'll be eating a very low level of carbohydrate (i.e. - not much in the way of starchy foods) and something that SEEMS like a high percentage of fat and meat compared to what you were eating.
As incredible as it sounds your cholesterol will probably drop about 15 points and your HDL/LDL level (a better indicator of risk for coronary disease) will actually improve all while you are consuming more cholesterol than you have in your entire life!
I can't try to undo all the anti-meat, pro-vegetarian brainwashing that you've been exposed to. I thought the same thing too. My dad had a triple by-pass at 58. I thought that I would blow out an artery by moving to the Hunter-gather diet. My experience showed just the opposite. My anthropological research supported what I was doing too. Here is another excerpt from my book.
"However there were problems with the theory of a sweeping agricultural revolution in Europe. The biggest point of contention was the lack of fields and storage facilities for grain and other agricultural products. Grain and agricultural implements were occasionally found but they suggested that grain production and consumption were very limited. It was an insignificant part of their diet. In what is now Britain it seems that grain wasn’t grown at all but was imported from other areas. Some archeologists believe that it wasn’t eaten but rather used in religious rituals.
New techniques for analyzing DNA and other genetic material have forced archeologists to reconsider their earlier theories. They reveal that a sweeping agricultural revolution did not take place. Genetic specimens sampled from the archeological remains of known European hunter-gatherers and Middle Eastern agriculturists were compared with present day Europeans gene samples. They show that only 15% of today’s European population are offspring of the agriculturists that moved into Europe over 10,000 years ago. The remainder have firmly established older, hunter-gather genetic roots.
An isotope study of bones from this period adds support to these findings. In it a particular isotope of bone protein can be analyzed to determine the relative amount of plant or animal food that was present in the diet. The human isotopes were then compared to the bone isotopes of various animals. If the human remains exhibited values that were similar to herbivores (e.g., horses or cattle) they were eating a large percentage of plant foods. If the values were closer to those of carnivores (e.g., wolves) it suggested that these people were
In Reply to: Re: Robert McFerran-Something I forgot posted by Robert McFerran on July 28, 1998 at 13:35:21:
Tony,
I forgot to mention in the previous post that you should drop ALL of your supplements for now. You'll find that many of them were working against you.
NUTRITIONAL REGIMEN APPROPRIATE FOR
HUNTER-GATHERER BIOCHEMICAL TYPES
RECOMMENDATIONS
Meat, Fish, Poultry:
ALLOWED: Organ meats such as liver, kidneys, brains, sweet- breads, tongue, tripe, etc.; pork ribs, bacon (*); all red meats including venison and veal; lamb; cold cuts (*) of any variety but preferably additive-free; dark meat poultry (either chicken or turkey) such as poultry wings, thighs and drum- sticks, skin may be left on when fried as desired (see methods of preparation below); duck and goose; all darker meat fish and some cold water fish either fresh, frozen or canned (*) such as salmon, dark meat tuna (often labeled as "chunk light") especially when packed in oil, swordfish, dark meat bluefish, mackerel, sardines (*), herrings (*), caviar and salmon roe, all shell fish such as scallops, abalone, oysters, clams and black mussels; escargot/snails; all crustaceans such as shrimp, crab, lobster and crayfish; squid/calamari, octopus; all frankfurters of any variety but preferably additive-free, including chicken franks, beef franks, pork franks, turkey franks and soy/tofu franks (see vegetables below).
AVOID: All light fish (either fresh or frozen) such as scrod, cod, flounder, sole, turbot, perch, haddock and fancy or solid white albacore tuna (*); chicken and turkey breast; lean pork, ham(*).
MEAT, FISH AND POULTRY OF THE ALLOWED VARIETIES
SHOULD BE EATEN AT EVERY MEAL.
* All asterisked items are candida inducing.
Vegetables:
ALLOWED: All leguminous vegetables such as peas, lentils and beans of any variety including tofu (soy bean curd), potatoes especially if fried or buttered to taste (fats will be discussed below), carrots, celery, spinach, cauliflower, artichokes as well as artichoke hearts (artichoke hearts bottled in oil are acceptable) and asparagus. All produce should be fresh and well rinsed to reduce pesticide ingestion. Individuals harboring significant levels of candida may at times be sensitive to insecticides used in agricultural application. Frozen produce may be used occasionally. It is suggested that canned produce (*) be avoided if possible. All gourd/autumnal squashes (*) such as Hokkaido pumpkin, buttercup squash, butternut squash and acorn squash may be eaten sparingly.
Avoid: Lettuce (any variety), tomatoes (any variety), cucumbers, peppers (any variety, sweet or hot), fresh garlic (garlic salt may be used sparingly), horseradish, onions (any variety) including leeks and scallions, cabbage of any variety, broccoli, broccoli raabe, mustard greens, eggplant, brussel sprouts, bean sprouts, zucchini and summer squash, kale, beets (*), sweet potatoes (*) and yams (*)
Fungi
ALLOWED: All mushrooms (*)
Fruits:
ALLOWED: Avocados and olives. Bananas may be used sparingly as a dessert or part of a meal. No more than 2 or 3 bananas should be consumed weekly. All bananas should be "green tipped" and not fermented to the point of being extremely ripe. The following fruits may be eaten cored and peeled, sparingly if desired and preferably with some nut or seed butter or at the end of an appropriate meal: apples and pears.
AVOID: All melons and citrus fruit (whether fresh or from concentrate) such as oranges, tangerines, grapefruits, lemons, limes, pineapple and tangelos. Also all of the following should be avoided as well: plums, apricots, peaches, berries, cherries and grapes.
Dairy:
ALL DAIRY SHOULD BE USED SPARINGLY AND NOT AS A PROTEIN SUBSTITUTE FOR MEAT, FISH OR POULTRY.
ALLOWED: Any whole dairy or cheese whether it be made from cow’s milk or goat's milk; half n' half, heavy cream. If a lactose intolerance exists all dairy should be lactose reduced or if unavailable in this form, should be pretreated with Lactaid. This intolerance may not be an issue once BioBalance is achieved.
AVOID: Any dairy
In Reply to: Hunter-Gatherer Metabolic Diet posted by Robert McFerran on July 28, 1998 at 13:47:07:
Robert,
I have a number of traits that I think place me into the hunter-gatherer group-hypoglycemic, low-uric acid, low trygliceride, cholestoral, etc. My diet is very healthy and varied but perhaps with too much of my foods being carbohydrates (though of the good kind-whole grains, legumes, veggies, fruits, etc). I do eat fish a couple time s a week while I almost never eat meat. Actually now I'm starting to have smoked turkey a couple of times a week. I eat very moderately and excercise and am incredibly frustrated by 10-15 extra pounds that I really should not have in light of my habits. What can you tell me about the effects of not following well the huntergather diet--if indeed it is one's body type--on weight and metabolism. I am utterly convinced that my extra weight is not due to the amount of food I eat but what I am eating. WOuld love your thoughts. Many thanks.
In Reply to: Re: Hunter-Gatherer Metabolic Diet posted by Lucy on July 30, 1998 at 11:53:57:
Lucy,
Everything that you've said is correct. By moving to a hunter-gatherer diet you'll have more energy and your weight will normalize (in your case decrease).
In your last sentence you've realized what many studies have shown but nutritionalist seem to ignore -- extra weight is not due to the amount of food you eat but what you are eating. Prison tudies have shown that calories are not the key indicator either.
If you are relatively healthy you could simply move to the Hunter-Gather diet and get results. If you've had a chronic illness I would recommend running the elimination diet first (adding lamb to the list of safe foods). If you want to find if you have any food allergies you should of course start with the elimination diet.
You are a classic example showing that hypoglycemia is not really a condition but rather an expression of your inherited metabolic identity.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Hunter-Gatherer Metabolic Diet posted by Robert McFerran on July 30, 1998 at 12:36:50:
Thank you Robert,
I have to admit, I am slightly depressed looking at the guidelines for Hunter Gatherer. Avoid lettuce, tomato, cucmbers, cabbage, zucchini, etc...My God! I have all those things in my fridge at this moment. I just had cabbage for lunch! My question is how stringent is your description of "avoid". Never or rarely? And also, if I were to have meat or fish twice a day rather than 3 (at breakfast too) am I dramatically lowering my chances of seeing the benefits of weight loss? Thanks in advance. Lucy.
In Reply to: Re: Hunter-Gatherer Metabolic Diet posted by Lucy on July 30, 1998 at 13:36:54:
Lucy,
The meat three times a day is not negotiable. It is ESPECIALLY important for breakfast. Start with small amounts and work your way up. You'll get used to it.
You will be able to eat small amounts of the avoid foods with your evening meal but in all frankness you'll have to get away from the 'salad' mentality that you are accustomed to. I had the same mind-set and I really love salads but I've found that they simply don't work well for me.
I usually have two to three 'easy' bowel movements each day. The first always happens within minutes after arising. After eating a salad the other evening with my prime rib I was constipated for 2 days and it took the better part of a week for me to return to my normal 'ease' and 'transit' times. All this just goes to show that there are foods that we are undeniably maladapted. Even something as seemingly healthy and wholesome as a big garden salad.
Bob
Rob,
Thanks for the diet. I started the elimination diet today, so hopefully I'll begin the hunter-gatherer diet next week.
I say hopefully because I'm still scared of eating that quantity of meat, and that low quantity of fruits. I just can't get past the conditioning I've gotten over the years about low fats, low meat, alot of fruit, and no butter or frying - all the opposite of what you are telling me to do, not to mention what my stomach can handle. Dr. D'Adamo says that especially for type A's a near vegetarian diet is critical to ward off cancer and heart disease - and you know about my fears on cancer. It seems that you have basically put me on a type O diet. I can't help but be a little nervous about that.
By the way, where do these diets come from? Are they from Dr. Wiley, or are these diets you have made up by combining all of your knowledge? You said in another message that the purpose of your book was to give people options and the reasons why certain therapies might work. So then I guess these diets aren't 100%. Are they close? I'd be interested to read a book that shows the benefits of these kinds of diets, to help reassure me. Also, how did you figure out this was the right diet for me? Just based on the few questions you asked? In your experience, how accurate have you been in predicting the proper diets for people? As you can tell, I'm pretty scared to make this drastic change. I just don't want to get sicker, and this diet just doesn't make sense to me. I really hope you can convince me. Has anyone on this board used your diets with success?
Okay, after saying all that, I have a few specific questions about the diet. (I know I'll be starting it next week, but I just keep needing reassurance that it's the right thing to do, hence all the concerns above.)
You said for food combining, that a little is okay. Does that mean if you have a lot of protein, you can have a little starch; or if you have a lot of starch, you can have a little protein; or you can just a have a little of both? And what is a little? (4oz meat, a few spoons of rice, or more?)
As I reintroduce foods after my elimination diet, do you feel pulse testing is a viable means of checking for an allergic reaction? Sometimes I feel like I have a reaction and my pulse is fine, and sometimes I don't feel a reaction and my pulse is up. The only consistent times my pulse goes up is if I have a lot of sugar, or if I have flaxseed oil- so I don't know how reliable it is.
In the H-G diet whole milk products are allowed sparingly, but based on my type A blood you said to avoid milk. So I guess that just wipes out the dairy section of the diet?
Right now my stomach can't handle any fried foods, although you recommend them. I have also in the past (before I got sick) had problems if I ingested too much protein. And right now I can't eat any legumes or eggs without having a lot of problems. Not to mention I'll have to avoid all candida inducing foods, as you feel there's a good chance I have a yeast problem. These are major parts of this diet. What do I do?
I also supposedly have a low stomach acid problem right now. (I get very nauseous if I take high doses of vitamins, among all of my other massive digestive problems.) Do you think I'll be able to digest all of this fat and protein?
What about any condiments or foods not specifically listed? Are they neutral, or to be avoided, or what?
The supplements Dr. D'Adamo gave me were designed (supposedly) to help heal the conditions that were going on in my body right now, as well as to supplement his diet.
You're saying I should stop everything, and not use anything to at least try and heal my stomach and digestive system? If I don't heal my stomach, I won't even be able to eat the foods in your diet.
What are purines?
What is a nutritional anthropologist?
How do you feel about juicing?
And how are you feeling? I never realized you were ill until your last message. Hopefully you've
In Reply to: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Tony on July 29, 1998 at 11:56:10:
Hi Tony,
You don't write too much, you WORRY too much. As a fellow worrier maybe I can help. I was on Dr. D'Adamo's Blood type diet for almost two years. I have serious health problems, one of them being leaky gut. Your stomach problems sound alot like mine, but I have too much acid. I have been on the MIXED diet posted by Robert McFerran for only 4 days, but I feel great and no longer have that gnawing sensation (it was always worse at night. I have cut my Zantac dose in half. I too was afraid to go off the blood type diet, but boy am I glad I did. I urge you to try Robert's diet for a week at least, if you feel really bad go back to your blood type diet, but I'll bet you won't.
Just do it, it's not a major decision, it's just something to try and hopefully it will be the answer to your problems.
Linda
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Linda on July 29, 1998 at 15:35:04:
Linda,
I read your earlier post about having a fast metabolism and autoimmune disease. Robert recommended the Mixed diet for you.
I also have a fast metabolism but thought it was related to my autoimmune disease (Graves'). I have numerous other health problems (LGS, C-RS, chronic fatigue, to name a few), and had been on Dr. D'Adamo's type O diet for months. The only thing I noticed from it is that wheat is definately an enemy to my system (IBS went away almost immediately when I started the diet), but the diet didn't seem to give me the energy I desperately needed. Also, I have a problem keeping on weight, and the diet made me lose 5 lbs. almost immediately. Dr. D'Adamo made a few recommendations, but they didn't put any weight on, and I was always hungry. I have reluctantly added some wheat to my diet, and the weight is coming back on slowly.
Do you also have a problem keeping weight on? Did you crave sweets, and is the Mixed diet helping with that?
I am currently TRYING to follow the whole foods diet, but am once again always hungry.
Sara
In Reply to: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 16:10:36:
Hi Sara,
I've always had a fast metabolism. When I was 16 my mother took me to the doctor to see if I had a tapeworm because I could eat 14 pancakes for breakfast. I don't crave sweets, but at times I crave salt. I 've been doing skilled relaxation and I believe this has helped me gain 5 lb. The MIXED diet seems to work well for me. It's the combination of the two primary foods, such as meat and beans, sausage and fried potatoes that make me feel really content after I eat and for the first time in my life I can go from breakfast to lunch and lunch to dinner without being hungry. It's 80 some degrees here and I just ran 2 miles and feel great. I haven't been on the MIXED diet that long, but so far it seems like the answer.
Linda
P.S. I can't eat wheat either and if it wasn't for Dr.D's book I don't think I would have figured that out myself.
In Reply to: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 16:10:36:
Sara,
It's my understanding that if you have candida, you will crave sweets, because the yeast in your system needs the sweets! I am also learning just how addictive sugar really is...you need to just stay away from it. The more you give in to your cravings, the more you will have them! Seems like a sick joke, no? I am looking forward to Dr. Stoll's and Robert's responses to you. If I were you, I wouldn't eat wheat if you know it gives you a problem - maybe you can find something else to put the weight on...Anyway, I hope you feel better soon!
be well,
trish
In Reply to: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 16:10:36:
Sara,
Excuse me butting in but you need to do the elimination diet followed by a hunter-gatherer diet.
The main reason folks like you have strong sugar cravings is that you are eating too much carbohydrate and not enough fat and purine (from the dark meats/fishes).
I'm glad that you understand that your Graves is a multi-varied problem.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Linda on July 29, 1998 at 15:35:04:
Thanks Linda!
Going to either one of the heavier diets (Mixed or Hunter-Gatherer) demands a leap of faith given the bias of what is out there.
I thought for sure that I might kill myself. Instead my total cholesterol normalize from 120 to 180 while my HDL/LDL ratio actually (and significantly) improved! As you know HDL/LDL ratio is a much better indication of risk factor than total cholesterol.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Robert McFerran on July 29, 1998 at 18:13:30:
Robert,
Actually, thanks for butting in. How do I do the elimination diet? Please tell me I won't lose any more weight doing this, or for that matter, lose any more by going on the H-G diet! I am 5'8" and weigh 125 - just sixteen months ago I weighed almost 140 - a good weight for me. I really thought the Mixed diet was right for me, since you recommended it for Linda and she has a fast metabolism like me.
I know that you know these diets best, but my system is so messed up right now - I'm just afraid of going in the wrong direction.
Sara
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Linda on July 29, 1998 at 17:35:10:
Linda,
Your comment about tapeworms sure took me back to my childhood - my mother didn't take me to the doctor, but she swore I had one! I still can eat like a horse, and amaze many of my friends, who I swear think I'm anorexic (until they go to lunch with me).
I crave sweets AND salt, not at the same time, but one after the other. I try to ignore my craving for sweets, and actually have eliminated alot (comparitively speaking) from my diet. But I still CRAVE them.
Robert posted that I should be on the H-G diet - hope he's right.
Sara
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by trish on July 29, 1998 at 17:44:57:
Trish,
I sure know now how addictive sugar is. I have been quickly eliminating it from my diet over the last few weeks, but I still CRAVE it like crazy.
Thanks for the words of encouragement!
Sara
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:19:51:
May I butt in ladies?
It has been my experience, as a type II diabetic, and thus having
to eliminate sugar in my diet, that often salt cravings intensify.
One of the reasons for this is because many foods have added
salt to intensify the taste of the sugar. When you begin to withdraw
from the sugar, the salt craving makes itself known. Another way
of putting it is, while you were becoming addicted to sugar,
you were also become addicted to salt, and now you have to
break the addiction to two additives, not one.
Another possible explanation is that your mother may have
had an imbalance while she was carrying you, and that imbalance was passed to you.
My mother passed to me this ancedotal tale: while pregnant with
me she had extremely strong cravings for pizza. She is not
a pizza lover. Not before, and not after, but during. Like wise
while pregnant with my brother. She is chagrined, almost embarrassed when we express a desire for pizza!
I too have cravings for salt, and salty foods, but it has been
more or less lifelong. Long before I developed type II I could
put away food like you wouldn't believe (or seeing the company
I'm, I guess you would believe) and still stay slim. Got lots of
evil looks from friends who would just look at a brownie and gain
10 pounds...
-Greg
In Reply to: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Tony on July 29, 1998 at 11:56:10:
Tony,
First off the hunter-gather diet is much different than what ERFYT suggests for O's. The diet is Dr. Watson's and Wiley's and they spend three entire book talking about the biochemistry and there anecdotal experience. I don't want you to fry anything. Ultimately you will be doing a lot of sauteeing of things like your vegetables in olive oil. I think frying in butter implies that there is some breading somewhere and of course there is butter. I cannot use either since I'm sensitive to milk and wheat -- two major food allergens.
The combination of the elimination diet (to detect food allergies), the proper metabolic diet and finally removing the PRIMARY lectin foods that agglutinate your blood type will yield the best diet that I know of. Dr. Wiley does a good job in BioBalance looking at why diets as varied as Pritikin's and Atkin's have found success within certain groups of people. I give much less credence to credentials than to logic. Remember when I mentioned that for the first 6 years or so of my searching that information seemed to diverge? That was especially true with dietary recommendations. They seemed to be all over the place.
Finally after reading Dr. Hans Selyes' work it struck me that chronic conditions were primarily due to us becoming maladapted to something. If I wanted to find if we were maladapted to food I would have to move backward through the archeological record to see what REALLY happened to humans as they became maladapted to new foods. Suddenly the biochemistry, the observations from all the books on diet and the anthropology began to converge and dovetail (very nicely I might add).
There are several type A's that are successfully using the hunter-gatherer diet but in the end you'll have to take the 'leap'. I don't think eating the wrong metabolic diet for 4 days will cause you to have cancer. You'll have to make another leap when you start feeling better to decide if the combined logic and the way you feel outweigh the common advise of nutritionalist and any credentials.
What I consider a little carbohydrate is two stalks of salted celery for breakfast, two sliced carrots sauteed in a generous amount of olive oil for lunch and asparagus sauteed in olive oil for dinner. Snacks of almond butter and walnuts are permitted thoughout the day. That ain't much. You start there and work up toward the middle.
You might be surprised that you're pulse goes up and down after an food has been eliminated and re-introduced. Don't worry, just keep a diary and you'll be able to weed things out.
Milk is out. Abstain from the candida inducing foods. There is lots to eat but it's radically different from what you are used to. MEAT, FISH AND POULTRY WILL BECOME THE PRIMARY FOOD SOURCE -- vegetables and very small amounts of fruit play a secondary role.
Your stomach acid will be fine if you don't eat too much carbohydrate. No vitamins! It will interfere with your personal 'experiment'. You'll find that (like your headaches being triggered by milk there are other food allergens adding to your stomach woes (probably grains).
Forget condiments. They are usually not whole foods (unless you prepare them yourself) and they tend to be complex admixtures of many foods and yeast containing produces (which will only add to confusion if you have a reaction). For now your meals will be VERY simple. A portion of meal and a single vegetable and for each meal.
Purines are nucleoproteins found most heavily in dark meats. Organ meats and crustaceans are particularly high in this protein component. Many vegetables have high purine content.
A nutritional anthropologist is an anthropologist that studies what our ancestors ate.
Juicing is only appropriate for Agriculturist metabolic types.
I personally am feeling well. I have considerable joint damage that has already demanded a couple of joint replacements and might demand more if I want to continue my active lifestyle.
I don't know if you've read the first
In Reply to: More questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:09:27:
Sara,
The elimination diet is in the archive section of this web site. I'd re-post it but I'm starting to clog up the disk space!
You might actually lose a bit of weight with the elimination diet. I would still run it but with the addition of lamb as one of the 'safe' foods.
The words 'fast metabolism' tends to confuse folks since fast is not a metabolic type. Let's have you try the Hunter-Gatherer diet -- even heavier on the fat while strongly restricting the carbohydrates. The means if you eat steak -- make it rib steak. Your vegetables should almost swim in olive oil and you should drink whatever is left in the plate.
Of course keep up with your skilled relaxation.
Bob
In Reply to: Sugar & Spice (in this case salt) posted by Greg on July 29, 1998 at 23:12:47:
Dear Greg,
Here is the "poop" about salt.
One needs to understand WHY the taste for salt is built in to the mamallian animal (perhaps ALL animals for all I know):
Sodium Chloride is the molecule that tastes salty. When any animal becomes even the slightest bit low in ANY trace mineral, the animal begins to crave the taste for salt. That craving will inevitably (in nature) draw the creature to an area of the land where the trace minerals are higher till that need is sastisfied--then the taste for salt reduces & even disappears.
The deer's grazing range is determined EXACTLY on that basis. The deer grazes further and further from the salt lick till the level of trace minerals gets so low in the grass that the levels in the deer begin to reduce. THEN, the deer begins to have a craving for the salt taste and starts to graze back toward the salt lick (since salt licks are the residual of ancient huge bodies of water which contained ALL of the trace minerals). The closer to the lick the deer gets, the more trace miinerls it gets in the grass. Once back to the lick, the deer licks on the "lick" until the trace minerals are replentished. THEN, the cycle begins anew.
In people, we are given refined "salt" which by WHO (World Health Organization) decree, in their wisdom, has to be refined to 100% sodium chloride. It now has ONLY the taste and none of the trace minerals. Is it any wonder that we get a greater & greater taste for "salt"?
The solution, of course, is to use mineral salt (mined from ancient evaporated seas thousands of feet deep). It contains all of the trace minerals and tastes exactly like refined salt since it has all of the original sodium chloride in it. It is a very light tan in color & has little colored flecks in it. The only difference is in convenience: One has to lightly tap the shaker (once) on a hard surface to make it pour (shake in a shaker).
For the convenience of avoiding that tap, we have deleted all of the reasons for the salt taste. People who use mineral salt begin to lose their taste for salt within about 6 months.
The negative effects medically reported for "salt" are ALL due to the imbalance caused by eating pure sodium chloride, while avoiding all of the trace minerals.
Hypertension researchers are now reporting almost a new trace mineral a month that "seems to be essential for controlling hypertension". They will eventually find that about half of the 70+ essential minerals are included in that list. Of course, that will take years and millions of research dollars. In the meantime people could help themselves simply by using mineral salt in place of refined salt.
Sea Salt will not do the trick! All the sea salt I have seen is white. That means that it was skimmed off the top of the salt evaporation beds--thus eliminating most of the trace minerals. Perhaps that was done to catch the market of people who think salt should be white???
Hypertensives that move to Salt Kay (the highest % of salt in the sir, water & vegetation of any of the islands in the Atlantic) see their blood pressure begin to reduce itself within 3-6 months. This doesn't happen at any of the other Bahamanian islands so it isn't due to the relaxed atmosphere.
Research from Australia has shown (since a report I read while in medical school 40 years ago) that giving pre-eclamptic women a tablespoon of salt, evaporated from the Great Barrier Reef, every day would clear their problem. This while the standart treatment, here in the USA is strict "salt" elimination. Surely, this should say something to someone!
These problems are due to the IMBALANCE of trace minerals to sodium chloride------NOT due to the sodium chloride alone! Elimination of refined "salt" will help for a while since it helps reduce that imbalance. However it is more the absence of the trace minerals than it is the excess of the sodium chloride & so the benefits eventually fade away.
Questions? Walt
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:28:51:
Dear Sara,
ALMOST total elimination of "sugar" from the diet CAUSES intolerable "withdrawal" symptoms of which craving is but one. I would not even consider trying this diet without having Beth Loiselle. RD's book "The Healing Power of Whole Foods".
Sugar is but one of nearly 100 substances that cause the same effect since they are carbohydrates that have had their micronutrients stripped from them. It is trying to metabolize these carbohydrates (via the Krebs Cycle), without the micronutrients necessary for that metabolism, that causes the withdrawal symptoms.
If you do this right, your withdrawal will be over in an average of 3 1/2 days. If you still have traces of refined carbohydrates in your diet, they could last forever. See this subject on the FAQ page for more information.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:19:51:
Dear Sara,
See my note to you about the "sugar" today AND the note to Greg about SALT, also today.
You are an example of why I do my best to encourage people to LEARN FIRST & DO AFTERWARDS.
You are to be congratulated for your determination but you are doing this in exactly the way that costs you the most in effort & returns to you the very least in benefits.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Robert McFerran on July 30, 1998 at 00:11:16:
Rob,
I just had to give you a sincere, heartfelt thanks. I was worried last night because I figured I had probably annoyed you and you were going to be turned off from my persistant questioning. Instead, you were totally patient and understanding, and answered everything I asked thoroughly and compassionately. You really are a great person, and I can't thank you enough for the help. Even the alternative doctors I was paying never had the patience or desire to answer all the questions I asked. They just expected me to blindly follow whatever they told me.
I didn't know your books were in the archives. I'm going to head over there now. As an aside, I was browsing around the D'Adamo archives yesterday, and I ran into an Aaron Wieland message, and he seems to have had a similar experience to mine, and had great results with your diet. Hopefully I'll get to talk to him.
Thanks again for everything. Hopefully I won't have to bother you any more for a while.
Tony A
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks but..... posted by Linda on July 29, 1998 at 15:35:04:
Linda,
Thanks a lot for the encouragement. I'm glad to hear this diet helped you. It does give me more desire to try it. How do feel about the long term effects though? And are you a type A too?
About the stomach acid, I was told my stomach acid was too low by a naturopath, but I don't know if that's the case. I always believed it was too high, because I've had a knawing pain in my back since I became ill a year ago that noone can explain, and seemed to react like an ulcer (although an upper GI was negative). It gets worse with fatty foods, oils, tomatoes, and citrus fruits. And every time the holistic doctors would give me digestive enzymes, it burned the hell out of it and increased the already chronic heartburn I've been having since I got sick a year ago. But one reason I've been afraid of Rob's diet is because if I do have low stomach acid, I don't know if I can digest all the meat.
I guess you're right. I do worry too much.
Tony
In Reply to: More questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:09:27:
Sara,
It looks like you're in the same boat I am. I have a lot of the same health problems you mentioned (not Grave's), and I've been on the type A D'Adamo diet, with only minimal improvement. Maybe we should just take the leap of faith together, and keep giving each other some support. Everyone I talk to you seems to believe Rob really knows what he's doing.
Good luck,
Tony
In Reply to: Re: Linda: Questions about diet posted by Sara on July 29, 1998 at 22:28:51:
Sara,
I know how the sugar cravings feel too. But I never had them until I began the type A diet! Now they are unbearable, even with chromium 3x a day. And Trish is right, if I even have a little sugar, I have unbearable cravings for days.
Tony
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks so much.. posted by Tony A on July 30, 1998 at 11:40:39:
Tony,
You should e-mail Aaron. He and you have much in common as he was a blood type A that was struggling with the 'A' diet. He had many of the same concerns as you in making the change.
Thanks again for the kind words. I know how hard it is to go against the grain of what we think we know and are sure of.
It's day two -- any withdrawal yet??
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Sugar & Spice (in this case SALT) posted by Walt Stoll on July 30, 1998 at 10:23:16:
This salt is a light grey, formed as moist large crystals, is hand harvested from the coast of Brittany, and contains all the micronutrients. If memory serves me it is 78% sodium chloride. They publish a book, Seasalt's Hidden Powers, that explains further the harvesting of the salt, its use for transmutation in the body to potasium, salt and sugar cravings plus much more. I believe their number is 1 800 top salt. They have a web page, but it is not regularly updated.
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks so much.. posted by Robert McFerran on July 30, 1998 at 12:45:33:
Rob,
I've been trying to email Aaron, but the library I'm at won't let me, so I posted a message to him on Dr. D'Adamo's board. I really enjoyed reading his posts over there.
Day two and the only withdrawal I notice is intense sugar cravings. I have so many weird symptoms that I don't even think I'd know what withdrawal feels like.
You're welcome for the kind words. You deserve them. And I really hope you don't have to go for any more joint operations.
Thanks again.
Tony
In Reply to: Re: Rob, Thanks so much.. posted by Tony A on July 30, 1998 at 16:51:04:
Tony,
The intense sugar cravings don't surprise me. Hang in there and let us know how day three goes.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Thanks for the encouragement posted by Tony A on July 30, 1998 at 11:53:47:
Hi Tony. I'm type B. Your stomach problems sound exactly like mine. I get that pain in my back too, but on the right side and the doctor said she didn't know what it was. Tomatoes, citrus, Tums make it worse. And you're right, digestive enzymes are a reall killer.
I screwed up my MIXED diet yesterday, so I didn't feel too good last night. I was freezing vegetables from our garden and was tired, so just made a stirfry with broccoli, peppers and steak, but the steak kind of shrunk and there wasn't much meat. I used white rice too. Apparently, it was too high in carbs and shifted my system back to acidic reallly fast.
I just wanted to remind you to keep a diary of what you eat and write how you feel. That way you can again eat the combinations that work well for you. Also, I've found you have to stick to the diet really closely. Oh well,back to square one.
Hope all is going well for you on your elimination diet.
Linda
In Reply to: Re: Every sea salt is white, EXCEPT Celtic Sea Salt from the Grain & Salt Society posted by SharonJ on July 30, 1998 at 12:48:54:
Thanks, Sharon.
I was not aware of this company. I would be interested in their exact analysis as compared with mineral salt. I have yet to see any sea salt that had but a small % of the trace minerals in mineral salt.
That is not to say that ALL of the minerals are not present in all sea salts. It is just that the % of each is much smaller because of the inherent mechanisms of harvesting sea salt.
Please let me know what you learn. I used to have the % in my file but have apparently lost it in moving.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Every sea salt is white, EXCEPT Celtic Sea Salt from the Grain & Salt Society posted by Walt Stoll on July 31, 1998 at 10:52:54:
Walt,
I stand corrected; They have updated their website and added quite a bit, but I still do not see an analysis of the salt. Here is the site: www.celtic-seasalt.com
I will list the major constiuents from the label on my package:
Chloride 51%
Sodium 32%
Water (from crystallization) 7%
Sulfer 1.12%
Zinc 0.87%
Magnesium 0.50%
Iron 0.38%
Potassium 0.26%
Manganese 0.026%
Copper 0.018%
Calcium 0.012%
Silicon 0.011%
plus about 50 other micronutrients (which are listed, but would take me forever to type with their percentages)
This independent analysis was supplied by The Laboratory of Analytical and Hydrological Chemistry of Nantes University - France.
Let me know how this compares to the mineral salt you've spoken about, if you're able to locate the file with percentages. Thank You!
Sharon
In Reply to: Re: Every sea salt is white, EXCEPT Celtic Sea Salt from the Grain & Salt Society posted by SharonJ on July 31, 1998 at 11:30:09:
Dear Walt,
I've been finding much to my delight that taking a colloidal ionic mineral supplement (in liquid form, in a glass of water) by NOW has rapidly brought up my energy level and helped reduce sodium chloride cravings. I'm also going to start using potassium chloride regularly for seasoning, Hopefully the combination of these things will help deal with my chronic edema.I've also been looking carefully at the ingredients of alleged mineral salts at the health food store. Without exception, what I've seen is poor-quality sea salt with a few added herbs for additional flavoring masquerading as the real thing. The ingredient breakdown shows a high percentage of sodium chloride and little else.
This all makes me wonder about the blood tests for electrolyte balance. I always register within the normal range, yet clearly sodium retention and potassium imbalance are a critical issue for me. Yet one more strike against the "you're fine if you're in the reference range" mentality. How many needless antihypertensives are prescribed on this nonindividualized basis...
Thanks everyone else for the info on high-quality mineral salts. Much appreciated.
Namaste' Kyra
P.S. Walt, I just ordered a bunch of stuff, including Hemi-Sync tapes of various kinds from Virgil. Thanks for putting me on to him and his work. As an aside, funny how the cleaner you get, the more important the subtle healing stuff becomes. Energetic medicine proves itself once again...
I'm new to this board and I've spent the last hour reading through it. I'm wondering, who is Robert McFerran? He seems to know a helluva lot about everything. I saw a couple of the diets he recommended, and they seemed very radical. Does anyone have any feedback on these diets, and how does Dr. Stoll feel about the diets? It seems like this is Robert's board, not Dr. Stoll's. If Robert knows what he's talking about, then I think he SHOULD have his own board.
Bill H
In Reply to: Feedback on Robert McFerran's Diets? posted by Bill H on July 29, 1998 at 13:42:00:
Bill,
I'm with you!! All this keyboarding is wearing my poor fingers out! I've had a chance to walk in Dr. Stoll's shoes (in terms of trying to keep up with questions) for only a few days AND with far less questions to answer.
Walt, all I can say is that my respect for what you do EVERY day grows with each keystoke!
Bob
In Reply to: Feedback on Robert McFerran's Diets? posted by Bill H on July 29, 1998 at 13:42:00:
Dear Bill,
I understand your concern. I would like to see Bob respond to your concerns.
You might also look at my brief CV on the FAQ page. I learned that what I had learned in medical school, practiced exclusively for 10 years & then taught in the medical school for 3 years, was too simplistic to resolve the chronic conditions of patients I saw most commonly. Of course, I had my own chronic conditions, 4 different docs and 4 different medications---while I gradually got worse.
It was by combining the expertise of many vitalistic healing philosophies of the world WITH the atomistic approach that is the conventional medical monopoly, that I could finally resolve the chronic conditions (that I had--and those of my patients) that make up the "health-care crisis" in this country today. I also found out that there was no way that I could be an expert in all of them myself.
The best I could do was learn enough about each approach that I would know which of the patients might do better with THAT approach and them get them to the expert in my office that knew THAT approach.
Bob has a perfect history for one who had done everything conventional medicine had to offer who got well by what I had to recommend to him. THEN he did what any outstanding patient does who finally is well; he went far beyond me in his dedication to learning about the infinitely complex field of diet. SO, now he knows much more about some aspects of it than I do.
To that I say WONDERFUL! Those participants of this BB, who are willing to go beyond what I know about diet, have the resources of Robert MCFerran to go to. If he had his own website, I would have to have a link to his site to refer people to. Unfortunately, then I would not have the daily opportunity to learn from HIM!
However, it is the intimate interconnection of ALL of these approaches that serves the seeker of knowledge the best. I would welcome a Rolfer, Naturopath, Homeopath, Aroma Therapist, Acupuncturist, Reflexologist, Iridologist, Kinesiologist, Colon Therapist, Therapeutic Masseur, Electromagnetic Medicine Specialist, Clinical Nutritionist, etc., to join with the Chiropractor and other clinicians who are combining their expertise on this interactive BB.
Robert does not have all the answers either. ANYONE who thinks thy do would not do well on this BB. However, I am glad that he is willing to share what he DOES know with the rest of us. It enriches this BB immeasurably.
Please comment. I appreciate your concerns being shared with all of us since, if YOU have them so must many others.
Thanks! Walt
In Reply to: Re: Feedback on Robert McFerran's Diets? posted by Robert McFerran on July 30, 1998 at 00:31:01:
Thanks, Bob.
You know we ara mutual admiration society!
In Reply to: Re: Feedback on Robert McFerran's Diets? posted by Robert McFerran on July 30, 1998 at 00:31:01:
Rob,
Thanks for getting back to me. I think you are keeping up with Dr. Stoll, if not surpassing him. I've seen some long responses from you. I've been following your posts with keen interest, and I think its great the way you're helping so many people. I look forward to reading your book!
Bill
Hey Robert,
I did really well for a few days on the diet, then I made ate a meal with too many carbs and blew it. (see note to Tony further down the page under Thanks for the Encouragement). I have a quick question. It's hard for me to get free range or organic meat. I can get free range beef and ground turkey, so I do buy those. Since I need to eat alot of meat on the MIXED diet is it better to eat the regular meat like regular cold cuts, pork, bacon, etc. or go without it. The truth is, I feel better when I eat it. I figure since I'm not eating other junk at all like hydrogenated oils, sugar, white flour, maybe it would n't be so bad. I really need those amino acids.
I'm not complaining, but I'm about nut buttered out already. Would hummus with whole grain crackers or bread be ok for a snack. I'm leaning toward the primary foods because my system is very acidic and I am determined to get off Zantac.
Just a short answer is okay, I know this board is keeping you busy.
Thanks
Linda
In Reply to: Robert McFerran, please posted by Linda on July 31, 1998 at 08:31:50:
Linda,
Sorry to hear you had a setback from your white rice. Do you usually combine animal protein with a starch? How much is okay to combine with? I seem to have a problem with it. My stomach and esophagus cramp up.
So all the meat seems to be helping? That's great! By the way, I was really interested in the pain in your back. Have you had any testing to confirm that it wasn't an ulcer, or your gall bladder (that's on the right side of your back)? I keep swearing that mine is an ulcer, but I had an upper GI and it was negative. I would really love to know what the hell the pain is, as it causes me to avoid alot of things I need to eat. It also gets a lot worse if I sit up straight for any perioid of time. Does your's do that? I know I need fat, but oils make the pain worse (especially flax oil - I don't know why, maybe Rob does), and as it gets worse, so does my heartburn and reflux. So anyway, I started avoiding things I know I need to eat. This is one of the reasons I think I'm going to have a problem with the diet; eating all the meat and oil.
Also, why are you taking Zantac? Is it for an ulcer? That would explain everything and my whole paragraph above is moot. I was on 300mg of Zantac a day for a month when I was treated for H-Pylori, and it didn't do anything. Before that I was on Prilosec, and that seemed to help the pain in my back, but it gave me other terrible stomach pains, diarrhea, and I lost 20lbs in 3 weeks because I couldn't eat. The only thing that seemed to help my stomach at all is a product called Gastramet from Cardiovascular Research. It was prescribed from my Naturopath, but you can get it at really good health stores. Maybe you can give it a try. Take one 3x a day 15 minutes before meals. The ingredients are Licorice, Vitamin U (a form of glutamine, which is what they think is the ingredient in cabbage juice that is healing ulcers so miraculously), and Chlorophyll. If I could afford a juicer I think the best thing to do to heal the stomach would be to drink a pint of raw cabbage juice a day for a month. But my second choice would be to take chewable (it has to mix with the saliva) DGL (Deglyccerizinated Licorice), 3 or 4 tablets, 3x a day, 20 minutes before meals; but I think I'm allergic to it. Every time I take it I get a ton of pressure in my head and I get weak. I don't know what that is, but unfortunately I had to stop taking it. But from what I've read, it seems that the DGL has a really high percentage of healing ulcers in 8 to 16 weeks, with no side effects. It also heals the stomach lining in general, so it can't hurt to try it. That's what I wanted to do.
Well I didn't mean to get off on this tangent, and I'm definitely not qualified to give advice on stomach problems, but I don't know where you're at and I thought I'd give you a few ideas based on things that I've been through. I hope the diet keeps helping you, and keep me informed. I'm on the same path!
Bye!
Tony
In Reply to: Robert McFerran, please posted by Linda on July 31, 1998 at 08:31:50:
Linda,
The thing that I try to be mindful of is how much purine along with fat and carbohydrate are in each of my meals. Get the organic stuff when you can but the reality is if you can't get it you should eat the non-organic meats -- leave out the cold cuts because you wouldn't believe what is in there!
Try to mix things up for variety too. I'll eat buffalo, venison, beef, lamb, swordfish, dark tuna, shrimp, chicken and livers from whatever animals that I can find. Talk about a Hunter-Gatherer!!
You can try the hummus with whole grain crackers or bread if you know you aren't sensitive to the wheat and if you put a good dose of olive oil in the hummus. You'll probably have more luck eating a snack like that after lunch. Overnight your metabolic drift is greatest. As you go through the day eating the proper foods you'll modulate back toward your optimal.
I've personally realized that if I want to feel my best I MUST eat lunch within 3 1/2 hours of eating breakfast. After lunch I won't need to eat for about 5 hours. This demonstrates the effect of drifting both during the day as well as night.
You've got the right idea and we've got you in the proper metabolic category. Now you just have to experiment to see exactly where you fit.
Bob
Rob,
Sorry to bother you again; just a couple of quick questions.
What vegetables are high in purines? I'm just trying to figure out if I was ever eating many at all.
Do you recommend other oils on the diet, or just olive oil? And I wasn't totally clear on this, but you are recommending butter, right? (Any certain kinds?)
So based on the above, I guess on the H/G diet we aren't worried about saturated fat content in foods or oils?
Anything I should be doing to control the probable yeast problem right now? (supplements, acidophilus)
Are there any health bars out there that fit into the H/G diet plan, or that are at least close, in case you're on the road and you need something quick to eat?
Thanks again for the help. It's day 3 and I don't feel that bad - just the sugar cravings and all my other symptoms. Maybe I don't have any food allergies?
Talk to you soon,
Tony
In Reply to: Rob, it 's me again... posted by Tony A on July 31, 1998 at 10:53:16:
Tony,
Thanks for the update. Don't be sure that you don't have food allergies since about 20% of the folks that have run the elimination diet have no withdrawl but do experience clearing. Also you might not be having as strong withdrawl due to your prior elimination of milk from your diet. Stay with the safe foods and lets see if you begin to clear by day 5 or 6.
Now on to your questions about the Hunter-Gather metabolic diet.
All of the vegetables 'recommended' on it are rich in purines.
Olive oil and butter are recommended. I wouldn't use the butter (or only use it occassionally) if I were you since milk proved a previous problem.
Don't worry about the yeast thing now. Remember no supplements now either! Good scientists know to try to control one variable at a time.
Saturated fats and oils don't scare us H/G's in the least ;). In fact it's just the opposite -- we have to be concerned that we are not getting enough.
This is a whole food diet sir :) -- none of that processed stuff will do. The life of a traveling H/G is more difficult than their Agriculturist counterparts. Salted nuts, nut butters on rice cakes, etc. are good. I have access to real pemmican -- a snack food of the American Indians consisting of ground buffalo, finely ground nuts and perhaps a little ground fruit. This is all mixed and wrapped in buffalo intestine -- similar to sausage.
Personally I always keep a baggie or two filled with small bite sized peices of rib steak. When I know I'm going to need a snack (say watching one of the 3 hour movies that Hollywood is making these days) I'll take a baggie and include half a carrot. While others munch thier popcorn I'm chewing on a meat treat.
If I'm on a longer road trip I pull one of the same baggies from the freezer section. They will last several hours.
Don't worry about the sugar cravings -- we will take care of those.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Rob, it 's me again... posted by Robert McFerran on July 31, 1998 at 15:34:01:
Just wanted to say thanks!
Tony
In Reply to: Re: Rob, it 's me again... posted by Robert McFerran on July 31, 1998 at 15:34:01:
Robert,
I kinda hope you are married because I don't think you would get many second dates afer you pulled out your little baggie and started eating pieces of ribeye in the movie theater. Doesn't that carrot make alot of noise chewing it?
Thanks for giving me a good case of the giggles.
Linda
Robert, I know you have been extremely busy keeping up with the questions on the board, but I'm hoping you can tell me which diet is best for me. I've been following the board for some time, and have been putting my focus on learning skilled relaxation; but I'm planning to soon take the diet plunge. There has been so much discussion going on lately, that I thought it would be good to know "where I fall in", so I can perk my ears up when I see you discussing the best diet for me.
I presently have so many symptoms (fatigue, hives, fibromyalgia, arthritis, etc.). From reading Dr. Stoll's book, I know I have candida, leaky gut, and am a total body bracer big time.
Here are my statistics, etc.:
Date: 5/96
Uric Acid Level - 5.2
Cholesterol - total 251
HDL - 39
LDL - (nurse couldn't locate the LDL - said the # wasn't broken down like it usually is)
Triglycerides -345
Blood type: A
5-hr. glucose tolerance test? Not that I'm aware of.
What am I eating now? The bad Ol' American Diet. Pork chops, chicken, beef, bacon, beef liver; fried, grilled, etc. Sugar (bags of it). Love cakes and candy bars (semi-sweet chocolate). Potatoes, corn, many veggies (from the grocery, not organic). White flour and rice. If it's bad for me, I probably love to eat it. I like variety and spice. A bland turkey sandwich makes me want to throw up. Have to eat something about every couple of hours. I eat breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks everyday.
Overweight? Yes, about 70 pounds over. Was small/petite and healthy all my life, until age 33 (now 43), then I suffered a bad depression and my health and weight went to pieces.
Medications? Prozac (depression/chemical imbalance), Trazadone (sleep), Premarin (total hysterectomy in 1992) and Claritin (hives).
React to coffee/caffeine? I usually have one cup of caffeinated coffee in the morning at work (weekdays. don't take the time to fix it on the weekends) - I sip on it over 2 hours. Usually 1 coke or ice tea (sweetened w/ sugar) at lunch to sip on the remainder of the afternoon. And usually 1 glass of ice tea at dinner. I don't notice any change in it doing anything to me. I'm so fatigued that I figure I would be worse off without the caffeine. I've had coffee late at night on rare occasions, and can turn around and go to sleep afterwards. Usually tea late at night can cause me more problems (usually bladder related) getting to sleep.
I usually eat something for breakfast (muffin, cereal, bacon/biscuit...one of them - not all three each day) around 9a. Eat a full lunch around 11:30a, then a snack (chips, chocolate, popcorn...one of them) around 2-4p, and dinner around 7, and maybe another snack around 9. I eat a full meal and can feel hungry again within the hour. Meals may add to drowsiness, but I'm so fatigued all the time that I don't notice any big change.
I bought the ER4YT book, and after looking at the total vegetarian diet, didn't think I could handle it....but I also realize I'm killing myself with my current diet! I'm sure I have some food allergies, so I will need to run your elimination diet first.
So, which diet is best for me?
P.S. Please ignore the comment someone made about having a board of your own...we need you here!
P.S.S. One of these days there will be one less saber-tooth tiger....he's got to go (sorry animal lovers)!
In Reply to: Paging...: Robert McFerran "My Diet" posted by Phyllis on July 31, 1998 at 14:25:22:
Phyllis,
The place for you to start is certainly the elimination diet. From what you are telling me I believe that some severe food sensitivities might be driving you to over eat. In other words you are constantly searching for something that will take away those intense withdrawl symptoms (from not eating the needed food allergen for several hours) and you just start eating and you don't become satisified until you luck upon that specific food.
Right now I would have to say that you sound like an Agriculturist even though there is nothing conclusive that I can glean from your blood work or your response to caffeine.
Fortunately the elimination diet is skewed to the light side. We'll see how that agrees with you before moving to one of the extremes of the metabolic spectrum.
There is a very good chance that your withdrawl symptoms on days 2 and especially 3 will be severe so be prepared. It might feel like you have a terrible flu (and you know how much fun that can be).
BTW, did you have a child around 33 when things began to change for you?
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Paging...: Robert McFerran "My Diet" posted by Robert McFerran on July 31, 1998 at 15:48:00:
I lost my first child during my 4th month of pregnacy when I was 29. I became pregnant again about 3 months later. This child was born when I was 30, and some symptoms started to appear (fatigue), but I was not deathly ill until age 33 when my husband left me....then everything fell apart....and very quickly. I rapidly put on the weight. I've been gaining maybe a couple of pounds each year for about the last 4 years, since I put the mass load on very quickly in the beginning.
Curious....what did you read from before that led you to know/think this?
I agree with the food sensitivities and feel that I will have stong withdrawls. I will probably wait 1-2 weeks before starting the elimination diet (I remember you saying to start on a Thursday, since I feel I will be dying over a weekend). By knowing you think I might be the Agriculturist, I'll start re-reading what you have written about it in the past.
I'll be away from my computer this weekend, so I may not see your reply until Monday morning. Thanks for all your help!
In Reply to: Re: Paging...: Robert McFerran "My Diet" posted by Phyllis on July 31, 1998 at 16:41:32:
Phyllis,
Dr. Wiley discovered the phenomenon of metabolic 'cycling' for women as they move through different phases of their menstrual cycle. He also discovered that men and women sometime transition from one metabolic type to another at different times in their lives -- at puberty, the sessation of growth (usually early 20's) and for women AFTER THE BIRTH OF A BABY.
This is a relatively new phenomenon and I agree with Dr. Wiley that I can't find any evidence to support it until recently (the last 100 or so years) when genetic mixing is so prevalent.
I think that you might have 'transitioned' after the birth of this baby. Of course having a baby is always a physiologically stressful event, as well was your subsequent divorce. These stressors could have pushed you over the edge but I believe that there might have been something else that was undiagnosed.
I have seen cases where a woman has had two prior births and never had a problem afterwards with post-partum depression, anxiety disorders or losing weight. Then a third baby comes and there is severe depression and they just cannot lose the weight.
I have a college friend that experienced this exact senario. Up until 35 and the birth of her last child she was a slim and energetic mom. She ate a light vegetarian-like diet. After the birth of her third child she went into a dangerous post-partum depression that was uncontrolled with meds. She kept eating lighter and lighter in and attempt to lose weight from the pregnancy with no luck. She had transitioned to a Hunter-gather metabolism. Once she started eating that way the anxiety attacks and depression lifted -- and she lost weight.
To many of you out there I'm sure that this seems like UFO stuff but I am convinced that it IS happening and will continue to grow (with genetic mixing) in the female population.
Of course Dr. D'Adamo's blood type theories or anything else that I have read anywhere makes no allowance for this phenomenon -- so of course it doesn't exist :)......
Bob
Robert,
Can you explain the link between reaction to coffee and determination of metabolic type? What if you never started drinking coffee? (That always baffled me -- when and what ever possesses a person to pick up a cup of coffee for the first time.)
If this explanation can be found somewhere on this site, you can just direct me there; but I haven't seen anything about it yet.
Thanks,
Peggy
In Reply to: Coffee?? Robert McFerran posted by Peggy on July 31, 1998 at 16:17:15:
Peggy,
I'm like you in that I could never figure why people would ever drink coffee! I thought that until I started understanding the different effect that it has on different metabolic types.
If you are an EXTREME Agriculturist you are constantly fighting a diabetic-like blood sugar curve. In other words your blood sugar tends to stay in your blood (thus the elevated blood sugar levels) and has difficulty being metabolized so it can be used by the brain and other tissues. Caffeine tends to stimulate insulin production which assists an Agriculturist in taking glucose from the blood and getting it to the tissues that need it.
EXTREME Hunter-gatherers exhibit a hypoglycemic blood sugar curve. They are constantly fighting overproduction of insulin. Drinking caffeine may give a temporary lift (since caffeine also causes the liver to give up some sugar which is badly needed for a 'bonking' hypoglycemic. But if they don't eat soon the extra release of insulin will only add to their hyper-insulin woes -- an even more precipitous drop in blood sugar.
This is an oversimplification of what really happens since it just talks about blood sugar when in reality there are interlocking biochemical pathways that involve 'intermediates' that are critical for energy production.
The coffee question is often muddled today since folks that know they feel great when they drink it no longer drink it due to all the recent negative press.
On the other hand I know hypoglycemics that drink it because it's a social thing that they have aquired -- even though it sends them into a hypo-glycemic 'bonk'.
There are other things like uric acid level, cholesterol, HDL/LDL ratio, etc.
How someone feels when fasting is revealing. Agriculturists actually feel better when they fast or skip a meal -- over-eating is their enemy).
In the end however all I can do is make an educated guess. My methodology is to start at one of the EXTREMES and if the diet isn't showing a large increase in energy within 4 days, to abandon it and move to the other extreme. Your body and you will know when you've hit the correct general mix.
Personally I started with the Agriculturist diet and felt just a bit worse from what I was eating before. When I tried the Hunter-Gatherer I was shocked. I didn't need to nap every afternoon. Of course I had to try the Mixed diet too just to be sure. I found myself losing energy again. Subsequently I've found that I'm on the extreme end of the Hunter-gather group.
As an aside, my father who is a type II diabetic finally began using the Agriculturist diet that I suggested to him over a year ago. His diabetes and the pain associated with diabetic neuropathy were increasing to the point where pain killers were useless. He was taking about 127 units of insulin each day.
He's been on the diet for two weeks and now instead of three injections he only takes one 37 unit dose. He has finally seen the light (well, at least some of it). This is also a warning to type II diabetics (95% of all type II diabetics fall in the Extreme Agriculturist category) -- you have to closely watch and modify your insulin intake or you'll throw yourself into a hyper-insulin driven coma!
Bob