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I need advice badly. I haven't posted in a long time but am in the archives. Post right L4-5PHL/D in 4/00. Post C4-5 and C5-6 ACD/F with allograft and orion plating. Small herniated disc at L-5 S-l. Having problems with trigger points, arm numbness (both) but primarily right, pain down arm, hand turns blue, serious hip pain following myleogram where doc couldn't get the needle in-(tried 2 or 3 times) my list goes on and on and the syptoms grow constantly. I have not found anyone who will do prolotherapy, have been told repeatedly that its "unproven" even though i know it would help me just by the explanation i was given. It makes sense. I have to continue to go to the traditional doc's in order for my employee long term disability to continue paying me a salary difference for changing positions. New MRI shows i now have a small herniation above fusion at C4-5 a herniation at C5-6 (osteophye which is causing posterior displacement of the cord) and a disc herniation at C6-7. Have to return to neuro with these results on 12/11.
I believe i do very well at my personalized version of skilled relaxation because i can bring a pain level from an 8 down to about a 4 in about 30 minutes. (Can totally eliminate hip pain-) Only meds i take right now are Neuronton 900mg daily and Ambien to sleep at night. I keep myself constantly tuned into how much i'm bracing and try to correct it quickly. Unfortunately, the different positions i have to hold my head in, arm movements, etc. trigger pain down my arm- triggering me to start bracing and its a vicious cycle. I know this isn't a process you read and just do...poof...its a learned lifestyle change that takes time. What advice can you give me on how to proceed from here? Ohh and there is only 1 rolfer within 50 mile radius of me. And to be honest, i'm out of $$.
In Reply to: I'm trying but failing posted by robynva on November 08, 2002 at 10:40:18:
My wife has back pain also and I keep her going with Kinesiology (acqupressure and its about $40.00 a treatment) and Trigger Point Therapy, which consist of me checking for very sore or tender spots on her back, butt, legs, arms and shoulders and if I locate one, I then push-in very hard with my thumbs and hold that spot to the count of 15, which helps to releive the tension on that muscle. I usually find between 10 and 15 of these very sore spots (trigger points). I then rub a very good pain cream on those spots called "Pain Buster II". So that, along with her using Ice Packs seems to keep her going. I hope this Helps! * Rick *
In Reply to: I'm trying but failing posted by robynva on November 08, 2002 at 10:40:18:
Here are some doctors who do prolotherapy. Hope the link works. If not, go to the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine with a google search.
In Reply to: I'm trying but failing posted by robynva on November 08, 2002 at 10:40:18:
Hi robynva,
Are you only doing SR to bring down the pain? How long and how often are you doing it? Try increasing the frequency of your SR sessions each day. And yes, it takes a while for it to be really effective.
With no $$, try doing some self-massage on a regular basis -- every day. Rick's advice about trigger point therapy sounds good. Look for those really tender spots and hold pressure on them for a short time. Generally the tenderness will slowly fade as the point is held. If you have someone such as a friend or partner who will do that for you, great, if not do it yourself.
Just keep doing some massage daily on all the tight and distressed areas, a little each day. Focus on your entire arm, shoulders and neck. It's a little awkward to do it oneself but if you keep trying you'll figure out comfortable ways to do it and if you do it every day you'll make some progress.
Sometimes muscle creams such as Tiger Balm can give temporary relief to areas of localized muscle tension.
Have you looked at dietary factors that might be contributing to the bracing, such as drinking caffeine? Eliminate that and drink calming beverages such as herbal teas. Make sure you're getting enough water -- dehydration can contribute to bracing also. Avoid sugar, refined carbs, etc. Be sure you're eating the healthiest diet possible. It might be a good idea to start a whole foods diet.
For some people, supplements of calcium, magnesium, or potassium can also help relax muscles. I can't give you specific info on that, you might ask at your health food store or maybe someone else on the board could tell you how much to take.
Best wishes,
Happygal (Certified Massage Therapist)
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing posted by Happygal on November 09, 2002 at 04:04:21:
Hi HappyGal
A massage Therapist! I am impressed. I love, love massages!
I have a knot in a muscle on my right shoulder blade that happened from an incident at work a few years back. When iI try and massage it, I can feel the muscle and bone crunch together.
It plays up when I am under stress, its not severe or debilitating, just an annoying pain.
I have had friends of mine try the pressure technique on it. It took ages before the pain lessened. Actually it didnt feel like it lessened totally, but it did lessen substantially. But it always comes back. I ahve had back massages done before, but it hasnt resolved itself.
Do you know how I may be able to get rid of it permanently?
*~ BLISS ~*
In Reply to: I'm trying but failing posted by robynva on November 08, 2002 at 10:40:18:
Hi, robynva.
I think it is too late for a Rolfer. it probably is not too late for Alexander Technique and you can get that free at your lending library. Let us know what you learn.
In my opinion, it is a crime that your "proven technique docs" have so ignored the bracing aspect of your condition that they have allowed your spine to deteriorate like this! Another example of the damage the allopathic monopoly has done to our population! You are about out of options at this late date.
How often do you do your SR? I agree that it sounds like it is working for you.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing (Archive in bracing.) posted by Walt Stoll on November 09, 2002 at 08:23:20:
I agree with you Dr Stoll 100% about the medical community. I even printed out the information that HY posted on prolotherapy and took it with me to pain management doc.
I formally do my SR 3 times everyday...when i get up in the morning, home from work and at night. Throughout the day when i find myself bracing (which is still quite often- i guess learning how not to do that in the first place is the real trick) I do take a minute or two and go into my "zone" and mentally relax my shoulders, neck and lower back. I can do this right in my chair at work (lumbur correct chair)and it is actually quite easy for me to do. If I recall correctly, isn't the Alexander Technique where you pay attention to each and every exertion you make during the day and learn to do it the easy way?? If so, that will be my next step and thank you for reminding me about that. I can tell you this, there will be no more surgeries unless they tell me I can die from this.
Unfortunately, the prolotherapy clinics posted are almost 4 hours away as they are near DC and i'm in the southern most part of VA, (about 10 minutes from NC). Riding in a car is an issue for me for some reason doc's blow me off when I ask. It feels to me like its the vibration of the car moving that is an issue.
I do want to add that this site and the information I have been given on SR and prolotherapy etc. has kept me going. If i hadn't learned about the SR, I woulda long ago gone nuts. If I hadn't been told about the prolotherapy and how these things happen in the first place (in a clear and understandable way) and begun the SR and my "zoning out", i don't know where i'd be now. Although i do know that if i had been able to get taken seriously and get the prolotherapy, this post would probably be quite different. This site has been so very helpful. Thank you all so much!!!
robyn
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing posted by Rick on November 08, 2002 at 11:03:38:
Thanks!! I already do that also on a daily basis. When i was in PT the therapist showed me that one. I also use the Therma Care heat wraps which help tremendously in keeping my hands from turning purple and just plain feels good....lol Its been an amazing difference though because with the relaxation, my muscles don't seem to "tense". The trigger points are there, but everything around them is so pliable and relaxed that they are very easy to find. I also have a flat wooden meat tenderizer which i can place between me and my chair and put pressure on these spots. Dunno if that is a good thing to do or not, but it sure works. Thanks for responding to my post.:)
robyn
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing posted by Happygal on November 09, 2002 at 04:04:21:
Thanks miss bliss!!! I have been gone from a junk food junkie, fried foods, etc. to eating low fat, grilled foods and eating far more healthily but haven't looked into the whole foods diet. (lost 80 lbs about 2 years ago when i started and have kept them off by totally changing the way I eat). I will look for a book on that when i go to the library next time for the Alexander Techniques book. I am a little afraid of taking supplements and frankly can't get them down half the time (usually horse pills...lol). But I have just started experimenting with herbal tea's- do you have a specific one in mind?? Know there are all kinds of them out there now.
robyn
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing posted by Miss Bliss on November 09, 2002 at 06:44:01:
Hi Miss Bliss --
SR! SR! SR!
That is probably your best best.
Besides that, it might need some really deep work (breaking up connective tissue restrictions, trigger points, etc.) to make it go away. Try a professional instead of a friend. It may take a few sessions if it's really big and has been there a while.
Personally I've found it incredible to believe how the combination of SR, stretching, some massage and some breaking up of connective tissue restrictions has left me with an incredibly, loose, free body. It's great! I just spent the entire last week without a "tight" day.
I wish the same for you! Onward and upward!
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing posted by robyn on November 09, 2002 at 09:27:34:
Hi Robyn,
The changes you've made to your diet sound like a great start! Good work!
About the whole foods diet, don't miss out on the information here on this website, as I think it is the best.
Herbal teas -- do you have Celestial Seasonings where you live? Tension Tamer, Sleepytime, Chamomile, all the mints, those are examples. Many brands are good, anything that says, "no caffeine." There's such a wide variety, you can have a lot of fun with them.
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: I'm trying but failing (Archive in bracing.) posted by robyn on November 09, 2002 at 09:06:43:
You are very welcome, robyn.
Walt
In Reply to: I'm trying but failing posted by robynva on November 08, 2002 at 10:40:18:
Robyn-
I am so sorry for what you are going through. Your history sounds much like that of my DH, at least on the orthopedic things. (He has lots of endocrine issues, too.) He, too, can lower his pain score thru SR and has been doing so for a long time. But like you, he's had surgeries, has "new" disrupted discs and cord compression above the site, etc. And, unlike you, he is totally disabled. I am pleased for you that you are able to work, albeit in a different job than your original one. That is a blessing (though work doesn't always feel that way!;->)
I just want to tell you not to get too frustrated about your lack of access to, prolotherapy. DH went to Chicago to see Dr. Hauser 5 times in about 8 months for prolo, at Helping You's recommendation of prolo and Dr. H. At first he thought it was helping, and later he had one series where his pain got much, much worse afterwards and has never been quite the same since. Dr. H was not very helpful about this. Prior to packing DH off to Chicago, I had also checked out prolo on a BB we used to frequent at Mass General -- a forum of patients much like you and my DH. Most postings discouraged us for pursuing prolo, but I took that as an indication that those who are well don't post their successes because they have gotten on with their lives. Also I had great faith in Helping You's recommendation (and mostly I still do).
I'm not saying prolo won't or can't work for you, but that it is not likely to be the magic bullet you seek. With that in mind, I would encourage you to continue to visit here and seek out other modalities, keep looking into ways to get prolo if you like, but don't let the difficulties you've had with access to it make you think you are only that one step away for getting relief. You may be, or maybe not.
This isn't meant to be discouraging, BTW. Hope it's not, and hope you continue to do OK, especially with that SR.
Best,
WS
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