Aids archives

Canker sores?

Posted by JN on March 11, 1999 at 05:13:02:

Canker Sores: Ousting the Ouch
from the Mouth

If your child yelps from pain after a sip of
orange juice, he might be suffering from a
canker sore. These tiny round craters on
your child's mouth, tongue or gums just
wait for something acidic like orange juice
to come along and sting them into action.

The official name for canker
sores--aphthous ulcers--means "fire
sores." And if your child is one of the
unlucky ones who is prone to getting them
every so often, it won't take you long to
understand how this painful eruption got its

"Most of the pain comes from mouth acids
and digestive enzymes," says David N. F.
Fairbanks, M.D., a clinical professor of
otolaryngology at George Washington
University School of Medicine in
Washington, D.C. "The sore is a break in
the surface that allows those acids to seep
underneath the surface and literally eat
away at the gum."
Canker sores usually appear one at a
time, settling inside the lips or
cheeks--especially where the gums meet
the inside edge of the lips. They're usually
caused or aggravated by certain foods,
stress or some superficial irritation like
nibbling on the inside of lips and cheeks.
Fortunately, they only take up residence for
a week or so and then disappear. While
they're on their way out, however, the
following tips may help your kid feel better.

Neutralize that acid. "Have your child
chew chewable Tums, Rolaids, Maalox
Plus or Pepto-Bismol to cut down on the
acid in his mouth when he's got a canker
sore," suggests Dr. Fairbanks. "As many
as one Tums or Rolaids every three to four
hours is safe for a child."

Douse the fire with water. "Have your
child rinse his mouth three or four times a
day with lukewarm water to clean the area
and make it feel better," says Paul Rehder,
M.D., a pediatric dermatologist in private
practice in Oxnard, California.

Numb it. "Get your child anesthetic
lozenges to suck on," says Dr. Fairbanks.
He recommends lozenges containing
benzocaine, such as Chloraseptic,
available at most pharmacies. A cold
Popsicle or a cool bowl of Jell-O can also
do the trick.

Coat it. Apply a protective gel such as
Zilactin, after first drying the sore with a
cotton swab, suggests Dr. Fairbanks. Use
as often as the package directs.

Tackle the inflammation.
"Acetaminophen [Children's Tylenol], an
anti-inflammatory, helps reduce the
discomfort for some children suffering from
canker sores," says Dr. Fairbanks. Check
the package directions for the correct
dosage for your child's age and weight. If
your child is under age two, consult a

Avoid nuts that irritate. If your child
seems prone to canker sores, you should
have him avoid nuts and peanut butter,
suggests says Dr. Fairbanks. (Walnuts
and pecans are especially
pain-provoking--and so is coconut.)

Cancel the candy bars. Sweets and
chocolate frequently induce canker sores.
"Therefore, for some kids, eating an
Almond Joy, Snickers or virtually any
chocolate-nut candy bar will result in
misery the next day. Such bars frequently
contain sugar, chocolate, coconut and
nuts," says Dr. Fairbanks.

Axe the acids. Highly acidic foods or
juices can be real yowl-raisers. These
foods include pineapple, grapes, plums,
tomatoes and all forms of citrus fruit.

Find something else to gnaw. If your
child is in the habit of biting the insides of
his cheeks and getting canker sores, you
might want to suggest that he find
something else to gnaw when he gets
stressed or hungry, says Dr. Fairbanks.
"Anything that scratches the inside of the
mouth will trigger a canker sore in
someone who's susceptible."

Brush the old-fashioned way. "Avoid
electric or rotary toothbrushes if your child
tends to suffer from canker sores," warns
Dr. Fairbanks. The vigorous brushing
provided by mechanical devices may also
scratch the gum and initiate the canker
formation process, he says.

Ditch an old brush. An old brush can
also scratch the gum, adds Timothy
Durham, D.D.S., an assistant professor of
dentistry at the University of Nebraska
Medical Center College of Dentistry in
Omaha, Nebraska. "If your child's
toothbrush frays, she can scratch the soft
tissues of her gum." And with some kids,
that's all a canker sore needs to get

When to see the doctor

"Any sore in the mouth that lasts more than
two weeks ought to be examined by a
physician," says David N. F. Fairbanks,
M.D., a clinical professor of otolaryngology
at George Washington University School
of Medicine in Washington, D.C.

A physician may prescribe a chewable
antibiotic to cut down on any oral bacteria
that could be prolonging the healing
process, says Dr. Fairbanks. Or he may
numb and cauterize the sore. If he chooses
this particular option, he'll also probably
apply silver nitrate, which will cause a
dense scab to form over the sore's top.
The scab will allow the sore to heal and
also protect it from the digestive action of
me Remedies
Canker Sores | page 5

When Trouble Comes in Bunches

If a child gets a whole group of canker
sores on the back of his throat, it's a
condition called 'herpangina,' according to
David N. F. Fairbanks, M.D., a clinical
professor of otolaryngology at George
Washington University School of Medicine
in Washington, D.C. Those clusters of
sores, caused by a coxsackie virus, can
continue spreading from the tonsil up onto
the soft area of the palate and beyond,
advises Dr. Fairbanks.

"This whole crop of sores, which won't
appear anywhere else in the mouth, hurts
like mad," says Dr. Fairbanks.

Fortunately, once a child has had
herpangina, she can't get it again. Treat it
the same as you would regular canker
sores, says Dr. Fairbanks, and in five to
seven days the whole crop will disappear.

Follow Ups:

Re: Canker sores? (Conventional summary. What about prevention?)

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 12, 1999 at 09:49:40:

In Reply to: Canker sores? posted by JN on March 11, 1999 at 05:13:02:

Dear JN,

This note is a wonderful summary of the conventional medical approach to canker sores.

The problem is that all of this is simply "treatment" and not doing anything about WHY it is happening. ANYONE can get one sore but when it becomes recurrent, not looking for the causes is malpractice at its worst.

This has been discussed on this BB several times and I will briefly mention the basics here:

1. NO ONE gets recurrent canker sores without having leaky gut syndrome and, in children, they nearly always have Candida-Rdelated Syndrome as well (a common consequence of unrecognized LGS). Eliminate the LGS (and the possible C-RS) and the sores will be no more.

2. Local treatment will eliminate an individual sore within about 24 hours (done by the protocol in the archives for this BB).

Finally, canker sores are NOT the same thing as herpes simplex type 1! "Herpangina" is caused by herpes simplex type 1 and canker sores are NOT. These two conditions have no more relationship than measles & chicken pox.

Herpes simplex type 1 has also been discussed on this BB many times and increasing lysine containing foods while decreasing anginine containing foods IS one of the preventive measures for that recurrence. Interesting that nuts are high in arginine.

I would like to see ANY research that says that herpes simplex type one lesions are caused by a coxsackie virus. This one time infection called "herpangina" (WHY DO YOU THINK THE CONDITION IS CALLED "HERPangina"? It is because it is caused by the herpes virus NOT coxsackie.) is caused by the same thing that causes the lip sores most of us are aware of. It is just that, in some people with no previous infection by this virus (nearly all are children), can have a really bad time of it the first time. After that, they have enough immunity to this virus that future outbreaks are much less severe.

Is Dr. Fairbanks ready to say that the lip blisters we all know to be caused by herpesvirus type 1 are now caused by coxsackie? Perhaps I will learn something new. I hope you will post the research that has discovered this.


Follow Ups:

Re: Canker sores? (Conventional summary. What about prevention?)

Posted by JN on March 13, 1999 at 05:12:50:

In Reply to: Re: Canker sores? (Conventional summary. What about prevention?) posted by Walt Stoll on March 12, 1999 at 09:49:40:

Dear Doc,

You got it right. Once more it can not be also caused by acidity. One of the interesting issues is that years ago ulcers were also caused by acidity not H. Pylori.
This is the best example of conventional thinking by such Dr. as Fairbanks.
There is however new evidence that dental mercury is in some cases causing break outs simillar to CANKER SORES.
The injuries caused by dental mercury are such severe that it can not be accounted. It is evident that dental mercury is neuromodulator due to neurotoxicity.

The neurotoxicity also causes lower back pain.
Unfortunatelly it is difficult to associate with.
Carporal tunel may be also as result of neurogenic inflammation.

I am not convinced that canker sores are caused by acidity, while acidity is secondary to metabolic changes as result of exposures which cause acidity. This is a catch 22.

was also caused by

possible preventive

Posted by tracy on August 15, 1999 at 17:17:10:

In Reply to: Re: Canker sores? (Conventional summary. What about prevention?) posted by Walt Stoll on March 12, 1999 at 09:49:40:

I am writing to inform you of something monumental that I
would never have believed if it hadn't happened to me: I think I have
discovered a cure for those pestilent mouth ulcers that have been
plaguing me my entire life. The sores are white, oval-shaped, and
usually about the size of the eraser on the end of a pencil
(sometimes smaller). Eating, talking, and often simply breathing hurts.
Purely out of compassion for those who suffer this terrible malady, I'm
sending this to you in hopes that you will disseminate the information,
and maybe someone else can be pain free too.

First, let me tell you what I have tried. All over-the-counter topical
applications, including Zilactin, Amosan, Orajel, --you name it, they
only aggravated the situation. Then my dentist prescribed Famvir, an
anti-viral medication, to be ingested orally; it did nothing. Next, it
was Kenalog with Orabase and then Peridex. He also recommended a daily
regimen of folic acid, vitamin B12, and iron, but it failed too. I've
rinsed with Maalox --ick! I've used Rembrandt Toothpaste (with no
Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, "for Canker Sore sufferers"). Finally, I've
eliminated foods, one by one, from my diet, in order to try to isolate a
food allergy, but to no avail. I am a very health-conscious,
24-year-old individual, who tries to keep stress to a minimum; I
exercise almost daily and eat a variety of nutritious foods. So what
was the deal?

Then I saw an ear, nose & throat specialist, who insisted that I
probably still had a vitamin deficiency, despite my protests. He told
me to take a multivitamin like Centrum, 60 mg of zinc (known for
promoting oral health), and 1000 mg of vitamin C per day. "Yeah,
right," I said. But I took them anyway. About a week later, I was still
getting the sores, but they never fully developed, and they healed very
quickly. After two weeks, the occurrences were seldom and the pain
factor was negligible.

Since then, I have seen an oral pathologist, who diagnosed me with
recurrent apthous stomatitis (which I pretty much already knew) and prescribed
Fluocinonide Gel 0.05% to apply to the sores in their initial stages. I hardly
need the gel, though, because the vitamins ward off the ulcers amazingly well.

Please pass this on to anyone and everyone you possibly can. Maybe it
will help, maybe it won't. While there are many worse diseases to have,
this one, as you know, is a source of untold agony for lots of people.
Thanks for reading.


Follow Ups:

Re: possible preventive (Testimonial. Archive under immunity and diet.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on August 16, 1999 at 16:23:46:

In Reply to: possible preventive posted by tracy on August 15, 1999 at 17:17:10:

Thanks, Tracy!

NOW, MY suggestion is that we are still not as smart as god and that no one yet knows that YOUR "normals" are. Therefore, you are still likely missing a number of micronutrients--probably stuff that we have not yet even discovered humans need (You know that we are still discovering nearly one new nutrient every month that were not known to be essential the month before.)

Fortunately for us, we do not have to have ALL of our micronutrients for our systems to work well enough to resolve something like this. Just something as simplistic as Centrum might even have just enough of what you need to give you results like this. If you look at the ingredients of Centrum and compare them with Ethical Nutrients' Therapeutic Multiple, you wil see what I mean.

HOWEVER, in a few years, you will be a few years older. Each day you get older, you wil need a better complex of whatever nutrients you need and, eventually, you will cross back over that line where you will start having the problem again.

NOW while you are relatively free of the problem is the time for you to put in significant effort to learn about micronutrients. Your particular "edge of the cliff" is in the area of mucosal immunity so there is likely where you will see the edge of the cliff in the future (another warning). However, the rest of your system is shy a few cylinders because of this same Bell Curve.

Your wonderful testimonial should be an inspiration to others not to give up with the first few things they try.



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