|
[ Cardiac Dysrrhythmias Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |
I'm a very active 68 year old woman who has recently been diagnosed as having SVT. The Cardiac Dr. believes I was born with it since I've suffered through much of my life with panic attacks and anxiety. But I have to say, as fast as my heart beat then it wasn't as fast as these episodes.These go 208 beats a minute.
Questions: What do you recommend doing to stop these episodes once they start? I've read all about getting magnesium IVs and skilled relaxation and though I've been doing the skilled relaxation for several years and it hasn't stopped me from developing this severe problem, I admit I most likely need magnesium. But I have trouble absorbing and taking a lot of what I need to. Like Calcium. Having tried practically all that is out there I finally found one I can take which is the orange flavored Viactiv. (I can't eat chocolate anymore) But, this doesn't have any magnesium.
The Cardiac Dr. naturally wants to do an ablation which I am very afraid to submit to. He says my problem is in the AV Node and is not life threatening. Yet I was told not to wait longer than 45 minutes by him to get to the hospital for adenosine treatment should I be unable to stop the SVT naturally. (His nurse told me two hours). Anyway, after trying to weather the last one out by staying at home, I've decided I'd better not try that again. That one lasted for 6 hours, stopped for about an hour and then started up again and didn't stop until I went to sleep. When I woke the next day I was sick to my stomach and threw up.This was just last Monday. It was the third severe one I've had since last Oct. I had a mild one in June of last year. The one before Mondays was in Feb when I had a severe cough with the Flu. So--
What do you recommend I do when an episode occurs? Is it possible a magnesium IV could stop an episode while it is happening rather than getting the adenosine?
Also, I wasn't given any medicine to take by the Cardiac Dr. because he figures I won't take it anyway. But he says that the usual ones aren't generally effective anyway, and there are side effects and the dosages usually have to be raised causing more side effects. With the results being only minimum and not stopping the episodes, he didn't give me any. Can you explain what happens before I have an episode? Is it common for people's blood pressure to be high before an episode? Then when in to an episode, is it common for it to drop? Because all the traditional medicine and alternative medicine a person can take to possibly help these episodes not happen or lessen, lowers your blood pressure. Since my blood pressure was so low the time before the last when I was taken to the hospital, I was told not to take any blood pressure lowering medicine after an episode has started. My Primary Care Dr. had given me a beta bocker to take when an episode occurred but not to take every day. But the medics said that was wrong. I'm confused. Can you explain this? I would like to take things like COQ10 but understand that it lowers your blood pressure too. When my blood pressure was checked at the Cardiac Dr.s office just a week ago, before the last episode it was normal.
Also, having read some of the archives about the premature baby who was born with SVT, I have a question regarding the concept of stress in a newborn. I guess in its case the problem was all lack of enough magnesium? The reason I asked, because having read another Adult's problem who had SVT you recommended more SR and that the magnesium for him wasn't as necessary. Is it different for each of us? Some needing more SR than magnesium and vice versa?
I do lean towards alternative treatment more than allopathic. So I very much want to believe that your method will be the answer for me. Just help me understand.
Thanks,
Smitty
In Reply to: Treating my SVT posted by Smitty on April 15, 2002 at 20:46:59:
Hi, Smitty.
ALL chronic conditions are at least multifactorial in nature! You were undoubtedly born with a genetic susceptibility (First factor.) I have little doubt that you are seriously, functionally deficient (intracellularly) in magnesium (Second factor.) I would also question how you have certified the effectiveness of your SR, what time of day you do it & how long each technique is (Possible third factor.)
An IV push of 2 grams of elemental magnesium, at the time of a bad attack, would prove to you if magnesiun is a significant factor.
You MAY eventually need an ablation but you have not yet run out of your other options.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 16, 2002 at 10:08:20:
Hi again Dr. Stoll! Thanks for responding so soon.
Are you saying that if I got an IV push of 2 grams during a major episode of SVT that it may very well stop the episode? Also, if it doesn't and I would still need to go to the hospital for adenosine treatment would that pose a problem? More risky? Regarding my SR. It is usually in the late afternoon or eve. The two tapes I listen to,(I alternate depending on how much time I feel I have) one is for 30 min and the other about 20 min. I almost always feel considerably better, more relaxed afterwards. Only very occasionally do I listen to either twice a day. But if it will help this situation I will somehow work it in. I suppose when you've lived this long you have to expect to have stored stress no matter how often you relax. I definitely plan to do more reading on your approach to SR.
I thought this method was okay though but perhaps not. -- I still would like to know if you know of any medicine be it standard allopathic or alternative like COQ10 that would help me if I took it during an episode? Or took it on a regular basis? Which kind/s might be more effective than others? I hate thinking my only option is to wind up in the emergency room with an IV of adenosine or going for the ablation. It kinda surprised me that you said I may have to have an ablation eventually. Because I thought you were against it. I realize you are only saying what you believe to be true for me Thanks again for your help. I feel somewhat better that I have someone to give me advise that isn't saying my only option is ablation. At least you are saying I have other options for now. Which leads me to wonder if the magnesium helps during an episode how the Dr. giving it to me would know how many more I would need before it would hopefully control not having these episodes?
Then hopefully, I would be able to take it orally. Since I haven't had a lot of luck absorbing calcium through the years.
Again Thanks,
Smitty
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 16, 2002 at 15:51:17:
Yes, Smitty.
IF the magnesium has anything to DO with the SVT it would stop abruptly with the IV. If it did not work, it would not complicate your using the adenosine immediately.
You are not doing your SR in such a way as to discharge the hypothalamic accumulation sufficiently to help resolve something like this. Carefully look at the home page and archives about the times of day and how often.
You would need at least 2 grams of IV, elemental magnesium at least t times a week for 2 weeks to get your intracellular magnesium high enough that you could better absorb enough orally. Because you know you have problems absorbing it you will need to experiment with all the easiest to absorb forms and find one that you can use for maintenance. You may have to repeat the IVs if you do not find an acceptable form right away.
Let us know what you learn and how you do.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 17, 2002 at 10:25:47:
Hi Again! Boy, you are really starting to impress me with your prompt replies! It does sound hopeful that if and when I have another SVT and have found some Dr. to give me the elemental magnesium in the amount you suggests that if that is causing my problem it will stop it abruptly. If it doesn't stop it and I have to submit to the adenosine do I need to still continue the magnesium injections as you suggests? I assume so! As I've said, I would much rather take magnesium shots that have an ablation or take adenosine. Also, was it a doctor term that you said I need 2 grams of IV, elemental magnesium at least t times a week for 2 weeks to get my intracellular magnesium high enough that I could better absorb enough orally? Or was the "t" a typo and you meant to say two or something else times a week?-- Now I will go to the Home page if I can find it, and hopefully learn about doing my SR the way you recommend.
Thanks so much for your help and concern. Makes me feel all emotional that you're really trying to help. You sound like an old fashioned type Dr. The kind who used to make house calls and really cared about their patients and not just how much money they might get from them.
God Bless You!!
Smitty
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 18, 2002 at 02:58:06:
Thanks, Smitty.
For catching my typo. It is meant to be 3 times a week for 2 weeks.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 19, 2002 at 11:18:58:
Good Day to You! Thanks again for answering. -- Hope you can answer these questions too! Talked with my Primary Care Dr. this am. First she was very much against even considering giving me magnesium shots saying in her research she could only find that it was useful in treating only one kind of cardiac dysrhymia and it starts with a "c".(I didn't ask her to spell it). Saying only, it was a very serious and fatal condition. After tellin her what you said and what others on this site have said about how magnesium has helped their dysrhythmias, she said in Kaiser Health plan which is my present insurance, they don't treat homeopathically. Then I asked her,couldn't she order a magnesium test to see if I am indeed low in magnesium? She surprisingly agreed to it and says if I turn up low, then she can give me the shots intramuscularly. Saying as you say, that if I am low I couldn't absorb it orally. Isn't that strange? At first she was adamantly against it and then when I asked to be tested she tells me what I wanted to hear! -- Anyway, should my test prove negative, do you recommend I try and get magnesium anyway? As you suggests? I hope it is low so I can at least have this hope of cure! Or some help! Without surgery! -- I bought the book yesterday,
"The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook" and the Library is getting me 3 others you recommended. I have already started listening to the relaxing tapes I already have twice a day. So I'm really working on this from your perspective. Another question! Friend says my problem is that I don't eat meat. Could that have any bearing? I've been a vegetarian for about 20 years eating chicken and turkey only very rarely. Though I try to get protein in other ways.-- Also, I've been taking Holy Communion to patients in a Hospice for the last 6 months once a week. Could interacting with the terminally ill be causing me more harmful stress? In the tapes I already have, they say we help ourselves by helping others. I felt in one way God wanted me to help this way, but I know that losing those you get close to is one of the highest stressors. Yet I know if I am sick I can't help others.(I recently lost my brother and two patients that I knew well. Any input here?
Thanks again,
Smitty
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 19, 2002 at 13:09:55:
Thanks, Smitty.
Apparently your doc has not kept up with the world-wide discoveries about magnesium but perhaps she is showing signs of an open mind.
Only an intracellular magnesium is worth while and even there the most accurate method of seeing what is important for YOU is to try it and see what happens.
The "normals" are not yet well established. A clinician has to treat the person and not the blood test!
The advantage of the IV over the IM is that results would be immediate with the IV and would be spread over hours with the IM. Most clinicians could convince themselves that the dysrrthythmia would have stopped by itself by then and save their ego more bruising.
Magnesium is painful, given IM, and not nearly enough could be tolerated to have the long term effect desired without at least dozens of injections.
I would have to go to the library and look up which foods have the most magnesium. The reference librarian could help you do that as well. My memory tells me that dark leafy vegies are high in magnesium. MY suggestion to you is that your not absorbing it is more of a factor than the foods you have been eating.
Educate me.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 20, 2002 at 08:32:36:
Hi Again! Unfortunately, shortly after I wrote you Friday, the 19th, I had another SVT episode where I had to go to the Hospital to have my heart converted. Surprise! The young, lady Dr. in charge of me in the ER agreed to using the magnesium as you suggested in the IV. She had heard of using that treatment for atrial fibrillation or something like that. I felt extremely hot while being given the magnesium and hopeful but it only lowered my heart rate from 204 to 170. It kept fluctuating going higher during that time. She then said I still needed the adenosine which I submitted to. After being monitored for the required time she told me it would be okay for me to attend a volunteer dinner I was invited to that eve. Just as we sat down to eat, my heart jumped over again and I had to go back to the ER where they converted me again with adenosine. This Dr. also used verapamil in the IV very slow and low dose, he said, to hopefully prevent it from happening again at least for a while. He has referred me to another Cardiac Dr. here who he feels is the best in this area to either do the ablation if I agree to it, or treat it medicinally I suppose. Most of these Drs all want to do the ablation though. But, I'm beginning to wonder if I won't have to submit to it. Since my Primary Care Dr. had agreed to give me magnesium injections if I proved low from the blood test, I don't know if she will now. I never got to have the blood test before I went into SVT Fri. Having been given the 2 grams during the treatment didn't leave me a good candidate to be tested at that time. The Dr. said it wasn't an accurate test anyway, because magnesium is in your bones. The test would be invalid. So, I'm not sure I can convince this primary care Dr. to give me and IV for 2 weeks. However, anything is worth a try. Also, I've begun taking the verapamil orally. I think it may be helping some. Otherwise, I might have had another SVT today. I was really very anxious for awhile. Believe me I didn't want to take the medicine but the Dr. in the ER convinced me it was really necessary since I had two episodes in one day. They are just getting too frequent. As for me not being able to absorb magnesium. I'm not real sure I can't absorb it I've concentrated for so long on finding calcium I could take even though I knew magnesium was important. For some reason it seemed since they claimed I was beginning to get osteoporosis (according to the hip bone scan), that calcium was primary for me. Glad you explained about the magnesium needing to be given in the IV rather than IM. I was going to ask you about that. -- You talked some about geting magnesium from green leafy vegetables (which I do eat) and then for me to educate you. I don't understand? Educate you about my eating habits or what foods have more magnesium than others? Even so, I don't think I could get what I probably need from eating it in food. Do you?
Thanks again for listening to my book, and for your help!
Smitty Oh the Dr. on my second trip to the ER Fri said if I have to come back to them I should prepare to stay much longer. At least 24 hours or longer. They will most likely give me a slow drip of the verapamil off and on during that time. If I'd known not taking magnesium would cause this much trouble I would have been working harder on finding magnesium to take through the years.
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 19, 2002 at 13:09:55:
Hi! After posting the "book" I just wrote you about having two SVT episodes last Fri, 19 Apr I reread your answer. Came up with two questions. The fact I was giving magnesium (2 grams) in a push in the IV while having the first SVT Friday, does that mean I was getting it intracellularly? Also, I've wondered if I'd been given this magnesium a couple of more times if it would have eventually lowered my heart rate to where I would have been out of the SVT? Also, if it had worked like that would it have possibly kept it from happening again so soon?
Thanks,
Smitty
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 22, 2002 at 01:16:20:
Thanks, Smitty.
It sure is a chore trying to educate a "professional" isn't it?
First, I would bet my reputation that they did not give you 2 grams of ELEMENTAL magnesium IV. That, because it takes a few minutes to calculate the actual magnesium atomic weight as a portion of any molecule they may have used (magnesium chloride or magnesium sulphate would be the most common). With the chloride, approximately half the weight of the molecule is magnesium but with sulphate each magnesium atom is contained in a molecule with one sulphur and four oxygen atoms so the weight of magnesium is only about 1/5 of the total weight. They knew all that but, because they did not believe it would work anyhow they were not willing to calcualte how much of what they used would be needed to provide the 2 grams of magnesium. They were humoring you.
Next, the ignoramus who said that a magnesium test would be useless because the bones contained magnesium is not anyone I would ever entrust even a toenail to.
Massive world-wide data has demonstrated that only an intracellular magnesium test has any relevance to the functional magnesium level. Apparently this guy has not learned anything new for the past 25 years.
Good Luck!
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in cardiac dysrrhythmias.) posted by Smitty on April 22, 2002 at 01:26:01:
Hi, Smitty.
See my response to the "book".
It takes the average person in your fix 2 grams of IV magnesium, 3 times a week for 2 weeks, handrunning, to get their intracellular magnesium to the place where they will more efficiently absorb it orally. That means that some people might have to do it for 3 weeks and others might only need one week.
In the meantime, oral dosages need to be discovered, for that person, that they absorb the easiest. I have listed the most common easily absorbed ones in the magnesium archives.
The initial effect we were looking for in not an intracellular effect. It is immediate so had to be the action of elevated magnesium in the serum on the cells of the myocardium. The idea of the repeated IVs is to permanently (so long as you find the oral form that will keep the intracellular level up) resolve your problem.
Also, remember that the signal for this dysrrhythmia is realy coming from the hypothalamus and that these false signals will continue till the SR has discharged the stress-effect storage from that area.
The magnesium works at the other end--->the sensitivity of the cardiac tissue TO those signals.
Now if only just YOU understanding this would be enough....
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in magnesium.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 23, 2002 at 08:43:03:
Hi Again! I've been doing some research since our last
talk. Dug out an old Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible. What do you think of his credentials? From his book and some other Health Professionals books I've read in the past I've found that there is a definite correlation between how much calcium supplements we take and how much magnesium and phosphorus we are to take in conjunction with the calcium.
Earl Mindell and these others say we need to take twice as much calcium as magnesium and calcium must exist in a two to one relationship with phosphorus. Is this true? If so, and say I only take one of the calcium supplements I've been taking a day and the calcium I get in my other vitamins brings me up to having 660mgs of calcium a day. In these supplements I only get 43mgs of magnesium and 96mgs of phosphorus. When I asked the pharmacists at my Insurance Co about taking magnesium he was very concerned that I should ask my cardiac Dr. because too much he says can mess up my heart rhythym. For me to ask my heart Dr. My Heart Dr. looked at the vitamins and minerals I've been taking and says this is fine. He didn't consider the ratio about how much calcium to magnesium and phosphorus etc. I'm naturally wondering if not getting these amounts in the proper ratio couldn't be adding to my SVT problems? -- Also should I still get that magnesium test? How long would I need to wait to get proper results from having been given that 2 gms of magnesium sulfate last Fri the 19th of Apr during an SVT episode for it to show accuracy?
Thanks again,
Smitty
In Reply to: Re: Treating my SVT (Archive in magnesium.) posted by Smitty on April 26, 2002 at 17:35:43:
Thanks, Smitty.
Because you received magnesium sulphate, you only got less than 1/2 gram of elemental magnesium with that dose: not nearly enough for even most people to see a result.
I would sincerely like to see ANY research that says that too much magnesium could cause cardiac dysrrhythmias when it is the lack of magnesium that contributes to most of them. Of course an unreasonable excess of ANYTHING can kill you--even air or water!
I am not an expert in the ratio of minerals. In MY experience, these ratios have been grossly overemphasized.
Hope this helps.
Walt
|
[ Cardiac Dysrrhythmias Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |