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Help, W/M/50 with a history of coronary artery disease currently in A Fib.
History: 1983 quadruple heart bypass and age 33.
1986: started on intravenous CHELATION threrapy aprox 60 treatments.
1987 to 1992: two balloon angioplasties and two atherectomies (roto rooter) because of continuing restonosis of the blocked artery.
1993: Quadruple bypass surgery (got lucky and survived) very sick afterwards with continuing angina.
Two months later balloon angioplasty to try an open two collased bypass grafts. Only able to open one leaving me with only collateral circulation the the right side of my heart. Two months later started on the Dr Dean Ornish program(low fat veggie diet, yoga, exercise) and also took 20 more chelation treatments. Angina dropped from 30 per week to 2 or 3 per month.
Prescibed medications were: Isoptin SR, Lanoxin, Nitro-Bid, Pravachol, Lopid, aspirin. Vitamins: Ester C 4000, E 1000 IU's COQ10 200MGs, Beta Carotene, Flax seed oil which I discontinued and recently added L-Arginine for the claimed NO benefit After two years felt well enough to take on a very high stress job (fell off the diet and quit walking...worked 12 to 14 hour shifts) Worked two years and quit per doctors suggestion. Felt better.
October 1999: Developed A Fib and have been in constant fibrillation since. Cardiolost prescribed Corderone 200 then 400 MG's daily (i think it's making me feel worse causing bouts of slow heart beats) and Coumidin 5 MG to prevent blood clots.
I'm currently scheduled to see an Electro-Physiologist on Feb 4, 2000 for possible abaltion, cardioversion, pacemaker or different drug therapy. I will resist everything except the diffeent drug therapy until I explore all my other options such as the intravenous magnesium injections I've read about on this site. (Thank GOD I found it)
Questions: Are there any studies concering CHELATION for the treatment of AFib? Could I get both the magnesium and the chelation at the same time or would the chelation defeat the prupose of the magnesium? I would suppose that the chelation doctor would be open to the magnesium injections. Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
In Reply to: Cardiac Dysrrhythmias posted by John on January 24, 2000 at 21:43:05:
Hi, John.
Any good Chelation Physician adds a lot of magnesium to the Chelation Bottle. HOwever, unless the person takes high doses of oral magnesium FOREVER (when one has the problems you are reporting) the level just goes back down again. So, it might be worth while for you to boost it back up with the series of IV magnesium pushes described on the protocol.
ALSO, you should have been told NEVER to stop your Ornish Program.
Personally, I believe Ornish's program (copied directly from Pritikin without giving him credit--while it does not go to the 10% fat diet needed therapeutically) is too liberal with the fat content of the diet and there will be a very significant % of people (like you) who will not GET their arteries cleaned out with his 15% fat diet.
We all experience the mechanism that, when we are better, we tend to stop doing the very thing that MADE us better. It does not make sense, yet we all do it.
The fact that you had such serious problems, so early in life, says that your genetic susceptibiloity is severe enough that you have to live the rest of your life adhering to the Priitkin program---except for increasing the total fat level in the diet to 15% after about 2 years of his standard 10% fat diet.
These are all things that, in MY opinion, should have been made crystal clear to you by your Chelating Physician.
More questions?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cardiac Dysrrhythmias (Archive under atrial fib and atherosclerosis.) posted by Walt Stoll on January 25, 2000 at 11:55:12:
Doctor Stoll, thanks for your reply. If I'm reading it correctly
1] the Chelation treatments should provide me
with magnesium needed.
2] Oral supplementation "forever" (which I have
no problem with....it beats taking Corderone
and Coumidin forever)
3] and occasional IV pushes of magnesium.
I will contacting a Chelation doctor to make arraingments in the hpoe that a conversion will take place. I'll keep you informed.
Btw, none of my doctors (cardiologist, surgeon or chelation)told me to stop the Ornish program. They encouraged participation and stressed it's importance.
I just fell off the wagon just like an addict. We had a book of patient recipes published while in the Ornish class
it was titled "Life Is Better Than Steak." I'm trying very hard to get back on the program and to remember that title.
A local Physician in Trenton, MI Dr Jody Rodgers DO Cardiologist subsidizes this program. Patients go once a week, four hours a day and get exercise, yoga, diet training and group counselling all performed by professionals in their fields. Plus they top it off with a vegetarian meal. All this for $85.00 a month. He also does stress testing once yearly in an attempt to document any improved arterial blood flow.
Unfortunately, he is the only doctor in the state to run such a program at such an affordable cost. His protocol was 13 grams of fat a day maximum (most people stayed under that), no animal products or oils.
Thanks again for your suggestion and info.
In Reply to: Re: Cardiac Dysrrhythmias (Archive under atrial fib and atherosclerosis.) posted by John on January 26, 2000 at 12:08:20:
Thanks, John.
I hope there are lots of BB readers that read this note. Every cardiac surgeon should be doing this program. Surely they make enough money to be able to afford to do public service like this. Next time you see him pass along my appreciation of his work. Dr Rogers program is a bargain!
This diet is perfect. I am glad to see that docs are going beyond Ornish. Of course, you know that this should only be continued until the arteries are perfect. THEN the fat % needs to be increased about 50%.
Chelation, by international protocol, does not give enough magnesium to resolve a magnesium problem quickly. In a case where I suspected low intracellular magnesium, I would put at least 2 more grams of elemental magnesium (MgCl) in the bottle.
Once you are up to normal, FOR YOU, you should be able to keep it up by taking "enough" (no dysrrhythmias) oral magnesium. If you ever started to have any problem again, it certainly would not hurt to take a few IV pushes. Two grams of elemental magnesium per push is about right.
Don't forget the SR since that turns down the cardiac excitability almost always part of the cause.
Walt
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