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Chelation

Posted by
David on May 24, 1999 at 15:52:40:

Hello;

My Mother just had a 'mild' stroke. I would like to send her too one of those Wellness Resorts.

Do you reccommend Chelation Therapy for her. Also, could you refer me to a top 'resort' for this need? She is also a smoker.

Thank you,

David



Re: Chelation (MUST stop smoking!)

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 26, 1999 at 10:45:08:

In Reply to: Chelation posted by David on May 24, 1999 at 15:52:40:

Hi, David.

Chelation IS the answer for your mother (see link below to find help).

In MY opinion, NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. If she is not willing to quit, is is likely not worth the time, & money.

Walt



Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why?

Posted by
RocketHealer Jim++ on May 26, 1999 at 11:38:17:

In Reply to: Re: Chelation (MUST stop smoking!) posted by Walt Stoll on May 26, 1999 at 10:45:08:

"NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker."

Ethical is an interesting word to use here. Is about ethics or Morals? or something else?

Why not do Chelation on a smoker? Ethically, Morally, Legally?

This is Not a trick question. Does this pronouncement apply just to Chelation, or too all medical treatments?

Perhaps is there some chemical drug interaction danger with smokers? Nicotine + chelation = ???

Perhaps is their blood oxygen transport reduced so greatly (or somehow affected by CO in the bloodstream) that this increased the "danger" of chelation (which I keep hearing is so SAFE!"

Perhaps is that smokers "don't care enough about themselves to quit?", so they don't "deserve" chelation (I just made that one up-it is certainly Not my personal opinion).

I've thrown out some likely/unlikely possibilities, just for discussion proposes. I'm not suggesting that any of these are the "right" answer, much less creating a "multiple choice" test. :-)

Walt, you are light years ahead of us "ordinary mortals" here, clammoring up the side of the mountain seeking info/suggestions (-: FREE is especially appreciated :-) to help us out of our self-created health situations. You know and share sooooo much. Every now and then you share something with no hint of the Why of it, when the Why part may very well be more significant/important than the original info itself. This perhaps is one of those instances.

Thanks in advance.



Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why?

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 27, 1999 at 12:04:54:

In Reply to: Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on May 26, 1999 at 11:38:17:

Hi, RocketHealer Jim.

So far as we know, one of the major ways Chelation works is by reversing free-radical pathology (See "Bypassing Bypass" by Elmer Cranton, MD).

If one is permitted to smoke, they are producing as much free radical pathology every day as a chelation normally reverses in one treatment. The doc still gets his/her money but the patient does not get much better. Why bother?

I tried going past this general guideline only once. I reasoned that I might be able to convince the person to give up smoking if I could just see him 3 times a week. He was dying from laryngeal cancer. He already had a tracheal tube in place & could only talk by holding his hole closed & using the electronic buzz box. He had to take a break every 15-20 minutes, walking his IV pole outside, to have a cigarette. ALL of his docs had impressed on him that his laryngeal cancer had been caused by his chain smoking for more than 40 years. STILL he was unwilling to stop.

Finally, after about 6 chelations, one day he just ripped the IV out of his arm & stormed out of the office. He had had enough of my "suggesting" that he stop smoking to help the chelation work better and after all he had already had 6 treatments & he was no better.

This guy was a famous judge in Ky and had had many years of having everything his own way. This time it did not work. Six weeks after he stormed out of my office, leaving the IV to run all over the floor, he was dead. I assume they buried his cigarettes with his body.

Anyway, I never tried it again and I wish I had not tried it that time.

Walt



Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why?

Posted by
RocketHealer Jim++ on May 27, 1999 at 12:21:04:

In Reply to: Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why? posted by Walt Stoll on May 27, 1999 at 12:04:54:

Thanks, Walt, for the explanation and the very interesing story. It makes a lot of sense to give "treatments" where the benefit is expected to exceed the ongoing punishment the patient is doing to themself.

Hope I did not beat you up too bad asking WHY!

About such a patient. Seems to me that at some point a person ought not be tortured further. Not saying that chelation is torture at all, but at some point all "curative" medical attention seems to fit in the "why bother" category. This particular individual sounds like he was in or near that category.

My RN wife used to do a lot of Hospice work in rural Tennessee. So many times she would come home and tell me about some dieing little old lady whose children were trying to get her to stop smoking or to eat a lower fat diet. At some point it seems to me like time to just tell the person to "have a good time your last few weeks, what the H***. Like the old cartoon outside the Dr's office that says "Smoke 'em if you got 'em" and the name on the door is Dr. Kivorkian.

None of this is to encourage smoking, but to keep in some proper perspective symptoms vs treatments vs expected outcomes.



Re: Personal story for RHJ. Chelation & smoker. -Why?

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 28, 1999 at 16:08:17:

In Reply to: Re: NO ethical physician will do Chelation Therapy on a smoker. -Why? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on May 27, 1999 at 12:21:04:

Thanks, RocketHealer Jim.

I couldn't agree more with everything you have said. This decision has to be made by the physician/patient moiety at the time & place.

I have many times, right here on this BB, said the very same thing: If your mother, father, friend, etc, is not interested, just love him/her the way s/he is till s/he dies. Do not try to "bug" the individual to live or to change anything.

Here is another story in my personal experience that happened when I had only been in practice for a few weeks:

The surgeon who had encouraged me to come to this small rural community to practice--and who owned the building in which I had my office--had a 96 year old man in the hospital who had had surgery for a bleedijng ulcer. He was refusing to eat & wanted to die. Since there was no more need for a surgeon, and everyone "knew" he had but days to live, they gave the problem to the "new kid in town" and then stood back to see how I would handle it. There had not been a new doctor in that town for 25 years.

After I evaluated the entire situation, I decided that it was best to just let him die as he wanted. I had discussed this with his entire family as well. This man was on welfare and had lived in a local nursing home for more than 10 years. His family never visited him and he had only his 98 year old, blind, corncob smoking wife for company (in the same nursing home).

When the family was notified of my decision, they ALL gathered in the hallway outside his room and insisted that I "do everything" scientifically possible to "save his life". Of course, they knew the state would have to pay the bill.

I have always felt that they were assuaging their guilt for never visiting him till he was at death's door. However, I dug in my heels and "did everything" I had just learned in medical school: antidepressants, Lipomul intravenously, etc., etc. These were heroic procedures even then.

Within 10 days he was sitting up in bed, asking to eat and wanted to "go home". He lived 12 more years and enjoyed life. His wife (of 80+ years) died 2 months before he did. Their quality of life was at least as good as any of the other nursing home patrons. The family had been right, albeit perhaps for the wrong reasons.

SO, I learned very early that I would not always be right in MY determinations of what was right or wrong.

Walt



Re: Personal story for RHJ. Always "for their Greatest Good"

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 02, 1999 at 21:27:51:

In Reply to: Re: Personal story for RHJ. Chelation & smoker. -Why? posted by Walt Stoll on May 28, 1999 at 16:08:17:

Thanks, Walt, for sharing your early Dr. story.

This reminds me of some stories I heard quite a while back. One was about a veternarian who tried to put a little dog to sleep, due to its painful illnesses. The doctor misjudged the dose, and the little dog slept for several days, woke up just fine thank-you, and led a long, full life. Apparently what it needed was an opportunity to just "be" during which the body could do the healing it needed. Sounds like our need for SR, to just BE to release the old accumulations and let our body heal.

As you say, who are we to "decide" what is best for a person?

In my Directional healing classes, I've been taught to do the very best I know how to do healing technique-wise, but to "release the results", to leave the results in the hands of the Holy Spirit, the client, etc. To do all healing work "for their Greatest Good", knowing that I cannot know if their greatest good is to get better or to die more peacefully. Either way, I've helped them. Usually if they say anything after a session, it is to tell me about some part of their body that feels so much better-that neither I nor they were aware was even bothering them.

I learned early on how hard it is to do healing "work" for the greatest good of a family member. Somehow, I'm prejudiced about the outcome *I* desire for them. I guess that's at least part of why physicians don't cut on their relatives. Too much emotional involvement.

Thanks again for sharing your story.



Re: Personal story for RHJ. Always "for their Greatest Good" (Archive under philosophy.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 03, 1999 at 15:29:11:

In Reply to: Re: Personal story for RHJ. Always "for their Greatest Good" posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 02, 1999 at 21:27:51:

Thanks, again, RocketHealer Jim.

I hope everyone reads this note. Wisdom is one of those "I know it when I see it." things. I guess Jesse Helms made that one famous---one of my least favorite persons.

Walt




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