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For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

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For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 20:49:28:

Hi Doctor Stoll,

I wanted to let you know what transpired with my mother's procedure last Thurs. and see what your impressions were. I have not been able to get my hands on the angiogram report yet, so all I have are some notes. I asked for names of arteries and such, but it was not easy to write them down as fast as they told me, but here is the gist:

Of the two main vessels to the brain stem that could be treated, the left one was functioning. And, it was functioning better than they thought. It looks good until it gets to the brain stem. It is functioning at about 50% or a little less. I believe he was referring to the basilar.

On the other hand, the vertebral artery is very narrow, as is the left posterior cerebral, and the anterior something. The Pica compensates for some of this. Of the smaller blocked arteries, one is blocked 90% and one is blocked 100%. They are both very narrow and untreatable.

The doctor decided that since the main artery was only blocked 50% or less, that angioplasty was not really worth doing at this time, especially because there are always risks. He would like to treat with medication and has ordered, in addition to her two blood pressure meds, plavix, and a cholesterol drug - either lipitor or something similar.

I asked him if he thought chelation would interfere with his drug therapy and he said he didn't think so, but that he did not know anything about chelation or what it did. Nor did he know if pomegranate extract would be a problem, but he didn't think so.

Do you think that chelation and pomegranate extract will interfere with the plavix, cholesterol, and bp meds? If not, I think I can convince her to do it.

He also said there is a very small spot on the right cerebellum, but it was nothing to worry about.

Thank you,
k





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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by lmd [11129.7683] on September 14, 2010 at 21:36:27:

In Reply to: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 20:49:28:

EDTA chelation will help. If this were me, I would run to chelation IV treatments.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 21:50:16:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by lmd [11129.7683] on September 14, 2010 at 21:36:27:

Thanks IMD, those are my thoughts EXACTLY!!!

Now I just have to find someone who is knows what they're doing.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 14, 2010 at 21:54:18:

In Reply to: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 20:49:28:

thanks for mentioning my name,,,k.
I can imagine how you feel about all this............

I started with the Pomegranate concentrate,,,and take it at night,,,away from my BP med..........

I hope things go well.....

just keep asking for a good Chelation doctor....maybe Dr. Stoll will know of someone out there.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 22:19:27:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 14, 2010 at 21:54:18:

You're very welcome Jayne, it's the least I could do since you were kind enough to ask after my mother the other day.

Yes, it's been such a roller coaster the past two weeks, I am extremely burned out. I'm scared and sad and desperately trying to keep her alive.

I think she will have to take the pomegranate extract in the morning, because she is taking the BP meds at 6:00 PM and 12:AM.

What do you know about the interaction between pomogranate and BP meds, is it dangerous or bad in some way?

Have you tried the chelation?

Are you on Plavix or a cholesterol drug per chance?

It would be wonderful if Dr. Stoll knows of a good chelation specialist out my way, but if not, I will have to start the hunt pronto!

Thanks so much for sharing and for your concern Jayne.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 07:53:25:

In Reply to: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 20:49:28:

k,

I have a similar situation with my cerebral arteries: the right internal carotid, at the brain stem, is 100% blocked and not surgically approachable.

I have had 100 chelations, the last one 25 years ago. I am convinced that the reason I have had no more TIAs since then is that the collateral circulation had time (given by the chelation) to partially bypass the blockage.

If you look at the anatomy of the cerebral circulation, you will see that it's hallmark is "collateral circulation". The Circle of Willis is the main distributive artery that links most of the blood to the brain to each arterial supply.

I do not think the chelation or pomegranate will interfere with anything. The certified chelation doc would know the most recent research about this.

At least until a year after completing 30 chelations, I would certainly keep up all allopathic recommendations. Even then I think stopping them should only be done under the monitoring of a knowledgeable physician.

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 08:24:30:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 14, 2010 at 22:19:27:

when I was in the Chelation 'study' the doctor said to take my BP med in a.m.! I had been taking at night.....
also, the pharmacist said if I missed a day, it is OK,,,as there is a build up of it, in our system...........

I do not take Cholesterol meds.........doctor wants me to...

they only had me on Plavix for 2 weeks,,,after heart attack,,,many years ago..........

:-)


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 12:02:58:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 08:24:30:

Thanks Jayne,

Has your health improved since engaging in chelation?

k.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 12:15:05:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 07:53:25:

Thanks very much Dr. Stoll, you have given me hope. It is always particularly special to hear about your own experiences too!

I think the left side of the Circle of Willis is functioning at 50%, but the right side is not functioning, and I don't believe it is even connected, if I understood them right. They said there are many adaptations to this Circle. I happen to find neurology fascinating, and in another life, I might have made that my career...

Anyway, as far as the medication goes, she is struggling terribly, and I had hoped that in addition to improving her situation and protecting her, that the chelation would enable her to get of some of these meds. She has terrible heartburn now because she can no longer take her Prilosec, due to the Plavix, and the Plavix and Toprol are making her so groggy, she sleeps on and off for hours.

This interferes with her life dramatically. She usually plays bridge at least 3 times a week, and has season tickets to plays. She and I go to the movies and she markets and runs errands, and basically likes to keep her wits about her because she is so sharp and fiesty. I will do anything to keep her alive, but I hate to see her quality of life change so drastically, and more important, to see her suffer. It's a Catch 22. Nevertheless, thank goodness for collateral functioning!

Thanks again for your input,
k.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 15:14:18:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 08:24:30:

Jayne,

What was the determined cause of your heart attack?

How high IS your cholesterol?

What is the "half life" of your BP medication?

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 15:24:34:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 12:15:05:

k,

To MY understanding, it is impossible for the "circle" to be, functionally, "partially blocked".

I have no experience with Toprol but do not see how Plavix could be causing any of the symptoms you describe.

I would think that, with her cerebral blood supply being blocked as you describe, that Plavix/low dose aspirin would be the most effective way to keep her going until the chelation could kick in (which could take as much as a year after the series).

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 16:02:51:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 15:24:34:

Thank you Dr. Stoll.

The neuroradiologist who performed the angiogram will see my mother again in six months, and I will ask him about the one side of the Willis, so that I have an accurate understanding.

We just came back from her appointment with her GP. She suggested we bunch up the meds early evening so that the grogginess can be prevented. That will help.

I asked her about the chelation. She said she had never heard of chelation being used in this way, but only to remove impurities such as medals like copper, etc.. She did not want us to do it for the following reason: she was afraid that it would bind to the medication and flush out the very thing that is supposed to be helping her. All I could think of was to get home as fast as I could and ask you what you think? I will also consult some chelation specialists to get their take.

Thank you,
k.




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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 18:59:13:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 12:02:58:

I was in a study after having the heart attack,,,,,
it was 5 yrs. ago already (the chelation).........none of use knew if we got the "real stuff" or not.............

?? !!

I am going with the Pomegranate tho..


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 21:47:25:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 18:59:13:

How do you know how much pomegranate to take?


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 22:17:00:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 21:47:25:

bottle says 1 T. - I take it "straight" (a bit bitter).......


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 22:19:39:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 15, 2010 at 15:14:18:

#1 - don't remember,,,but they wanted to do a Bypass!
I said NO,,,,so they said stent,,,,,,,& if it didn't work, I'd need the bypass.....I said, You'd better do it right!!!

#2 I will look.......some over 200

# not sure what you mean about Half-life???

thanks :-)


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 01:32:30:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 22:17:00:

What format is it, a powder, gel, liquid?


We have been drinking the organic juice dilated with some sparkling water but I have a feeling it is not potent enough.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 08:21:37:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 15, 2010 at 16:02:51:

Thanks, k.

Your neuroradiologist is "parroting" the outdated opinion of chelation from the 1950s. IMO, she is playing it safe like the high school team physician who says to the kid with a minor injury: "you cannot play or practice until this is healed"--whether or not it would be a danger to him to play just to CYA.

The chelation specialist can give you a better answer than I can at this stage since I have not actually done a chelation since 1993. From what I DO know, though, there would be no danger of it "binding" any medication she is taking. The actual mechanism of action of chelation is unknown but, back when I was doing it the effect upon medications used at that time was known to have NO effect.

Hope this helps.

Walt




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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 08:39:46:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 15, 2010 at 22:19:39:

Jayne,

"Half-life" is the term used to determine the number of hours anything lasts before 50% of it is gone.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 16, 2010 at 09:32:36:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 08:39:46:

NEVER heard of that before....

I think only a doctor would know that :-)


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 16, 2010 at 09:34:49:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 01:32:30:

liquid -
it's Jarrow and I just see 4X concentrate on bottle......!!!


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 12:02:20:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 16, 2010 at 09:32:36:

Jayne,

And nuclear physicists.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by AT [11797.8855] on September 16, 2010 at 12:05:39:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 12:02:20:

Good one, Walt:)


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 16, 2010 at 12:09:57:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 12:02:20:

now I don't feel so dumb :-)


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 13:21:46:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 08:21:37:

Thanks Dr. Stoll, that makes sense. Unfortunately, my mother -- who was adamant about not doing chelation in the beginning but who was slowly coming around -- was sitting right there when this GP expressed her opinion.

Getting my mother to go against her GP's wishes will be difficult, if not impossible, but maybe if I can find a good chelation specialist, I can get her to come around again and I will certainly relay your opinion and experience.

I guess this is a case where I should have asked her GP about this privately. It's pathetic, but after all my efforts on my mother's behalf, I ended up shooting myself in the foot. I understand her fear, but it is burdensome to have a parent that is so reluctant to go outside the box.

I do appreciate your help though, it is important information, and when and if I speak with a chelation specialist, I'll let you know.

The actual mechanism of action of chelation is unknown...

I wonder why this is the case?

Regards,
k.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 13:27:40:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram posted by Jayne [10093.9089] on September 16, 2010 at 09:34:49:

Thanks Jayne, that will be easy to just slip inside one of her drinks or meals.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 15:41:07:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 13:21:46:

k,

This happens in medicine ALL THE TIME. Just one example is aspirin, that was used for 400 years (willow bark), without knowing ANYTHING about it's mechanism of action. That did not happen until about 15 years ago.

You really cannot save everyone. Your mother may be one that cannot be saved. It is very late in the game for her. Unfortunately, IMO, if her doc is not having her on a Plavix/aspirin regimen, she is not even doing the most important preventive known for allopathic medicine. IMO, she is just waiting for the inevitable and your mother is going right along with her.

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 16:03:23:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 16, 2010 at 15:41:07:

Thanks Dr. Stoll, I understand what you're saying. The stroke center and her gp do have her on a protocol of plavix/blood pressure/cholestrol drugs, so they are doing the minimum.

I hear what you are saying, and if I cannot save her, then I guess I cannot, but I won't stop trying till the day I can't, because she is my mother. She listened quietly and carefully to me this morning when I told her that you did not agree with the gp's belief about chelation, and I told her that I was planning on contacting a chelation specialist.

Sometimes people surprise us, and hopefully this will be one of those times.

Regards,
k.


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 17, 2010 at 06:52:34:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 16, 2010 at 16:03:23:

Thanks, k.

Good luck. You know this but I will say it anyhow:

Sometimes all we can do is love them,the way they are, as long as we have them.

Walt


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Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation.

Posted by k. [2065.8928] on September 17, 2010 at 10:34:59:

In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll (and Jayne): angiogram-archive in chelation. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8951] on September 17, 2010 at 06:52:34:

Thanks Dr. Stoll. I have heard you say this many times, and I know you are right. It just hurts so much to watch, and sometimes be able to do nothing.


Regards,
k.


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