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Walt
Global assistance needed for lawsuit to kill draconian EU vitamin laws
By John C. Hammell, President
International Advocates for Health Freedom
http://www.iahf.com/
Audrey has multiple sclerosis. High dose vitamins gave her back her life. Now Brussels, the UN's Codex Alimentarius Commission (and the world's 'FDA's') want to ban them, and push all innovative dietary supplements through a torturous regulatory process designed to force them off the market so they can no longer compete with pharmaceutical prescription drugs. The immediate assistance of vitamin companies, health food stores, and consumers is badly needed to help fund a lawsuit being spearheaded by the UK's Alliance for Natural Health which has global implications. This lawsuit must be filed by July. ANH warns that we must get Europe to harmonize to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, otherwise, the USA will be forced to harmonize to the EU's mindlessly restrictive vitamin standards.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In Reply to: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by Walt Stoll on May 08, 2003 at 18:06:24:
John Hammell can tell you a very intriguing story about undue influence in Washington and how American freedoms are on the chopping block where CODEX is concerned. Our days are numbered if there is not a virtual revolt against this. The big Pharmas are as perverse a group of suited thugs as you'll ever meet.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 08, 2003 at 21:31:50:
Buy weapons while you can.
In Reply to: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by Walt Stoll on May 08, 2003 at 18:06:24:
Does someone out there more experienced than me have ideas of what can be done? Petitions? Protests? Letters? There must be something no?
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by Ideas? on May 09, 2003 at 07:40:56:
when i talked to John, I asked why media coverage hasn't been used to kick-start a serious grass-roots effort. He explained that a lot of confusion surrounding the issues of CODEX (and current Pharma lobbying) has short-circuited such efforts. For example, Gary Null blamed John on a live radio broadcast for making a mess of things on the legislative front, a charge that John vehemently denied and which only served to express divisions where there needs to be unity. Below is a set of comments I exchanged with John via email some days after we talked into the wee hours of the morning.
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I used to send email to a distribution list, but haven't since September due to getting burned out. If I do start sending email again to my list I have added you to it so you will receive any updates if I start sending them out again. I stopped because there just didn't seem like anything we can do given that the industry is screwing us.
We have been set up and I don't know what to do about it at this point.
What is needed is for Americans to donate money to the European health freedom battle because whatever happens there will end up impacting us here, but how can I get that message across given that the vitamin trade associations are dominated by pharmaceutical interests which have done so much spin against my message over the years that no one pays any attention?
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John, I appreciate your honesty. One thing I strongly believe about all this is that we have to affect the shareholders of these companies, for what else would stop this train from coming? The managements of Pfizer and Glaxo and the others do not even IMAGINE a scenario in which the effort to gain control of supplement markets should be dismantled. For them, it's just a matter of time. I am thinking we need to find ways that produce hardships for them in terms of public image, but also in terms of sales. It's important both they and the public know where everybody stands. It seems that any protest on these issues must be loud enough to draw attention to the hijacking that's being attempted.
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You don't realize the spin thats been directed against me for trying to sound this alarm. I have been nearly totally marginalized, and the American supplement industry is being led to the cliff by their own trade associations. I do not know how to wake them up. As for reaching the public, I'm not saying it can't be done, but how? I've been trying to reach the public on this issue since '96 when my article on Codex was the first published in the world calling the threat to people's attention. Since then I have had death threats and efforts like you would not believe have been made to marginalize me. I have been very heavily libelled but never had the deep pockets to sue those who libelled me.
The EU passed a very restrictive vitamin directive and England, Ireland, Holland, and Sweden are being forced to harmonize to it. A version of the EU is being forced on our hemisphere called the FTAA, but most Americans have no comprehension of any of this. The SPS (Sanitary Phytosanitary Measures) Agreement from GATT is also found verbatim in NAFTA and in FTAA and it is the main weapon being used to force the harmonization of our dietary supplement laws (along with Codex.) How do we stop this incremental agenda when most people have no idea any of this is going on, and when you attempt to tell them their eyes glaze over and they just go to sleep? Massive spin has been done against my message such that the American supplement industry has had the wool pulled over their eyes. They take their cues from NNFA which is controlled from the top down by the Cartel. How to expose this such that the small to mid sized vitamin companies which all stand to be driven out of business will actually listen I do not know. I pushed for 5 years to try to get a Congressional oversight hearing only to see it be whitewashed. The fix is in, and we have been set up like bowling pins. I do not know how to expose this. I am doing what I can, but hardly anyone seems to care.
Don't kid yourself. How do you propose awakening a grass roots which has no grasp of the threat of globalisation? The threat is real to people in England, they see it, because they're being DIRECTLY threatened by it right now, but we haven't been to nearly the same degree----- YET, and my concern is by the time people here see and grasp the threat, it could be too late to stop it. That is the danger of an incremental agenda like the one we are trying to oppose. Its very hard for the average person to see, much less fight against when he doesn't even know the threat exists. Face it, right now people can go into an American health food store and buy just about anything they want. When I try to tell them about what is going on, they just do not understand.
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Are counter-strategies being nurtured by those who have insights into the boardrooms of the Pharmas? Is there anything like a symposium of organizations that brings some order to this effort? Who is lobbying FOR us?
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I am lobbying for us. I have almost zero help. I am literally the lone voice crying in the wilderness. To a degree I have awakened a few other organizations, but none have devoted any serious energy to addressing this issue and none have any appreciable funding. I am working on an article for Life Extension Magazine right now, but am at the mercy of my editor and Publisher and they could end up butchering my article out of sheer ignorance in part because they do not take sufficient time to communicate with me.
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John, I applaud your efforts. I hopt you start the email back up.
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Peter- I won't start it back up unless I get unburned out and I am very burned out right now. I am concentrating right now on the article I am writing and on networking with inner sanctum people, mostly in Europe. Dealing with the grass roots can be very draining. All too often I am insulted by morons out there who are always second guessing me and it gets to wearing thin. IAHF is not a membership organization, its my consulting firm, and the degree to which I interface with the grass roots depends on how much energy I have.
John
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by R. on May 08, 2003 at 21:50:41:
the best weapon we have already: our pocket books.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 09, 2003 at 12:06:30:
No. There are enough fools that will support the devil. We will need real weapons sooner or later. Buy some while you can.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by R. on May 09, 2003 at 17:25:59:
Actually I thought your link to Dr. Schultz hit the nail on the head. Superb information, to allviate ills both major and minor, using herbs and more importantly, food. I can see myself buying his book, as well as stocking up on glass jars to make and store his various concoctions in.
I'm not sure actual weaponry is needed (guess I should keep my paintball handy), as once you are armed, and known to be armed, those who will come after you will come with bigger and better guns.
This means that you will then have to become very proficient with your firearms, and still does not guarantee surviving a firefight, much less an all out assault on your domicile.
Not that you should roll over and play dead either.
It just seems that being armed (in an obvious way rather than stealthily) is going to make matters worse. Once I can figure out "stealth armed" I would whole-heartedly recommend it (Beyond the pre-req for knowledge and intelligence. Those go without saying).
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by R. on May 09, 2003 at 17:25:59:
freedom is internal R, you can't defend it with a bullet. and a bullet can't take it away.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 09, 2003 at 11:17:50:
Thanks, PeterB!
We all have to understand that the PTB have had over 100 years to test what underhanded things will work and they are VERY well organized. The problems with most humans is that we have to lose our freedom before we decide to die to get it back; whereas it would have been a lot easier to keep it in the beginning.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by Walt Stoll on May 08, 2003 at 18:06:24:
Don't give up. I will sign anything, although, I am highly disappointed with some products and obvious trent to make money at all cost.
I wish it can work like in Germany (stiff regulations too).
Matylda
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. For R. posted by Gregory on May 09, 2003 at 18:23:32:
Yes, of course, I would do it stealthily. I'd hide different weapons in different parts of my residence. Those would include firearms and other types. I'd learn how to use them to, naturally. Throwing knives is a good skill, as I can tell from watching movies :) I realize that all that doesn't guarantee anything, and I would carefully analyze situation to see if it's time to fight or roll over.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 09, 2003 at 22:25:11:
While I've liked that idea, I don't see you practice it all the time. I see you critizing, complaining, etc. With this idea in mind, who should care if they forbid selling supplements? Or eating whole food? Of having sex? As long as you are free internally... Right? Some limitations overwhelm my ability to feel free internally and make me think of doing something on a physical level.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by R. on May 10, 2003 at 17:47:23:
i'm just being practical. if you enjoy freedom of the spirit you'll be as averse to violence as corporations are to generosity. the way to fight greed is with parsimony, not bullets.
but if i join your gang, do i get to ride the big scooter?
:)
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 10, 2003 at 21:59:44:
So what you are saying peterb is that we should wait until all our freedom is curtailed, and then wait for the system to colapse. I took a THOUSAND YEARS for the Roman empire to collapse.
I'm afraid I go along with R, we are losing our freedom anyway, but we can at least it up, and have a clear conscience.
Linda
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by LINDA FFE on May 11, 2003 at 07:30:30:
who's waiting? i am an activist who uses the system on both political and monetary levels to LEGALLY affect change when freedoms are threatened and before they are lost.
what are YOU doing to help?
:)
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Archive. posted by peterb on May 11, 2003 at 11:43:18:
Aren't you the one who said that "freedom is internal. If it is so internal, why do you need to be an activist? All you need to is "Stay centered in the moment,"
And you need do nothing at all. Personally I'm with R on this also. I think your Buddhic philosophy will backfire on you.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by Gregory on May 11, 2003 at 13:13:05:
we can talk about spiritual freedom and we can talk about personal freedoms shared in a society, they are completely different things. i believe in personal freedoms and i know that activist efforts can help preserve those. The other kind of freedom is a state of being, and neither activism nor hand guns are going to be a factor in one experiencing that. it's true that i don't believe in violence. where corporate-sponsored greed is concerned, how we spend our dollars is one of the most powerful weapons we have to express what we think. i seriously doubt that Walt is posting these CODEX memos to the board in hopes you will bear arms and start a revolt.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by peterb on May 11, 2003 at 20:16:28:
Well then once again maybe you should make a distinction regarding what you are talking about Peter.
Personally I think that a certain level your personal freedom impinges on your spiritual freedom. Curtail it enough, and your sense of spiritual freedom will be similarly be curtailed I should think.
Walt's warnings are a call to arms. What form that "call to armss" will take depends on what is the most effective weapon against the "enemy." Walt is indeed attempting to fomenting a revolt, in the hopes that enough people will learning about this will reach critical mass. That is how you destroy the infrastructure that supports major industry in this case the medical-pharmeceutical industry.
Frankly, he's got a ways to go, but all of us talk. To family and friends. The word is getting out there.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by Gregory on May 12, 2003 at 01:49:36:
the idea that violence could regain the right to buy 500mg of vitamin C from a health food store is as silly as thinking a hold-up could restore your personal freedoms.
when someone suggests the need to buy a gun, it raises the issue (as always) of the fear of survival on the physical level. it seems natural to talk about freedom as an internal quality that cannot be defended with bullets, as the people at Waco and Ruby Ridge certainly discovered. i think many people have no problem understanding that, at least instinctively.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by peterb on May 12, 2003 at 08:23:43:
of course, there are examples of violent overthrow and changes in gov't resulting from civil war, but i'd prefer to keep the topic to the theme of this thread, which is CODEX. the question is, what are the best ways to thwart this particular threat to our personal freedoms? If the pharmas manage to steam-roll this thing across both hemispheres, it will be impossible to reverse their actions WITHOUT a civil war.
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by peterb on May 12, 2003 at 08:23:43:
I didn’t exactly mean to get weapons to kill to be able to buy supplements (although, I do think that eliminating a few key individuals would be more effective than directing your spendings). I has to be done wisely, not like the Waco folks. What I mean mostly is that there may be time when we will need to have weapons, but we won’t be able to get them. So, we should get them now and learn how to use them. Humanity has witnessed atrocities that could have been limited or prevented completely had populations been sufficiently armed.
We almost have no freedom not vaccinate our children. In some cases, we can be forcefully vaccinated and/or quarantined. Our livestock can be destroyed if “they” think it’s necessary to fight a disease. We might soon lose our freedom to buy effective supplement and herbs. Who knows what the greedy in alliance with morons will do next? It’s very difficult to buy unpasteurized dairy now, and they might decide that all meat (or any food) needs to be irradiated to kill germs for your “protection”. Where will you turn with your “I can control where I spend my money” approach? You will have to begin to give them your money if you want to eat. It’s like in a movie about body snatchers: “Where are you going to run? Where are you going to hide? Nowhere!”
In Reply to: Re: More CODEX (Urgent). It's a war out there, folks. Who's side R you on? posted by R. on May 13, 2003 at 20:05:23:
Hi R:
“Where are you going to run? Where are you going to hide? Nowhere!”
Should it come to that, R, then a REVOLUTION would be most appropriate, a sort of "storming of the Bastille", if you will, upon the buildings housing the individuals who dared take away our rights. Of course, this would have to be a nationwide effort in order for it to be effective.
Just imagine a few million people marching towards Washington, empty vitamin bottles in raised hands, demanding their supplements back.
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