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Hi, Dr. Stoll,
Today I got the results of the Great Smokies stool sample and as usual, everything you said was correct. She does indeed have the problems you suspected.
For Bacterial Dysbiosis Index it said NR - high and off the chart. She did not have any Lactobacillus (even though I give her Primadopholus every day), no Escherichia coli, but 4+ Bifidobacterium; 4+ alpha haemolytic Streptococcus, 4+ gamma haemolytic Streptococcus, and 1 possible pathogen (1+ ONP-negative Escherichia coli). 1) What does that mean? The Haemolytic Escherichia coli was 4+ and Klebsiella oxytoca was 2+ under the imbalanced flora column. What should they be? 2) Can you explain how the dysbiosis that they found can affect her?
They also found elevated amounts of meat and/or vegetable fibers.
The chiropractor said it probably DOES indicate Leaky Gut Syndrome and when I asked if it could affect her behavior she said that it could affect the brain neurotransmitters. 3) What is your opinion on that - could it cause the mild hyperactivity?
There is a parasite too and they kindly included a picture of it - Dientamoeba fragilia trophozoites. 4) Is that a bad one? She actually doesn't have any of the symptoms listed that could result from it.
The chiropractor will talk to the lab to find out how to proceed since the two different problems - the dysbiosis and the parasite - make it less straightforward. She imagines we have to rid her of the parasite first before embarking on a cure for the bacterial imbalance. She will then tell me whether to give her antibiotics or herbs. 5) What do you think is best? I have no idea as to how she got so imbalanced - she was very rarely on antibiotics and I don't remember her ever having had a serious stomach flu or anything like that.
6) Would these findings explain her tendency to be constipated? Do you think that the medicine that we'll give her will "cure" her of her problem?
7) Do you have any other thoughts?
I think it's amazing that in one conversation you gave us so much insight about her ailment (which no doctor ever did before), and led us to follow the constipation treatment, which is working VERY well, and to pursue your theory about LGS and dysbiosis, which was right on target. From that I was able to find a practicioner who is following up in an efficient way. She is also doing chiropractic on her and found that her ileocecal valve is tight too.
I don't know what we'll be able to expect from the treatment - 8) what kind of a change can we look for?
Once again, thank you for all your help. It's been over a month that she's been off the dairy, she's doing her MO & psyllium therapy and is quite "regular" and I give you full credit. I would just like to see the day that we don't have to give her those things every day and wonder if it will ever happen.
Please do answer all the questions and I'll let you know what kind of therapy the doctor prescribes. Thank you again.
In Reply to: DR. STOLL - You were right again! posted by Wendy on March 26, 2001 at 18:01:30:
Wendy - Did you read the post I sent to Dr. Stoll about the Fiber Choice tablets? If not, please read it, and it will make you feel at ease about giving these to your daughter.
I'm sure they aren't as effective as the Metamucil, but it is much easier and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to interchange the two.
Sounds as if you have the constipation problem just about licked--wish I could say the same. It presently goes back and forth with my granddaughter, but at least it's much better than it has been. As I told you, it's harder for me because I'm not with her every day and my daughter isn't as concerned at the moment.
Are you having all these tests done because of the encopresis? Is your daughter ill? I know you said she had an alignment probem in her spine, but I thought that had been corrected. Please let me know. Thanks.
In Reply to: Re: DR. STOLL - You were right again! posted by Raisa - for Wendy on March 26, 2001 at 18:33:19:
Hi Raisa!
I read your letter to Dr. Stoll and you had some good questions. I wondered the same thing and I don't understand how those Fiber Choice tablets can work either. I actually don't use them because I trust the Metamucil and KNOW that works, but if I knew it was a good product I would start using that too. It would be hard to tell if that particular product works because we're using MO and psyllium at the same time that we would try that. Dr. Stoll wrote that 2 Fiber Choice tablets would be about as effective as one teaspoon of metamucil.
Is your daughter concerned about the constipation problem? There was a woman named Shawn who wrote awhile ago who was in the same boat as you. Her 7 or 9-year-old nephew had this problem and she seemed to be the only one who was extremely concerned about it and doing lots of research on the internet. Unfortunately, his mother didn't seem to be trying very hard to help him with the problem, so she was understandably frustrated. (Shawn, are you out there? How are things going? I've been thinking about you!)
Anyway, when they're that age it's so easy to think that this is a temporary thing and that it will resolve itself - that's what I thought. Everything seems temporary when they're that young. I had never even heard of encopresis so I didn't know to research it, and I had actually thought that she was having attacks of diarrhea all those years. You are so much ahead of me and have a much better chance of resolving it well before she starts school. Is your daughter keeping up the therapy?
I would never dare say my daughter's constipation problem is about licked because I know how easy it is to have a setback. Whenever she happens to hold it in - even if she does it just once - it ruins it for the whole day and she stains a little. She'll try about 4 more times in the course of the day with no luck. It's like she has a muscle spasm. The next day she's back on track, but why in the world does she have to do that in the first place? She knows she'll actually waste more time if she holds it in, but when she's into something interesting she just won't stop what she's doing. That's what I find frustrating. Otherwise, she's doing fine for now.
Yes, the only reason we had those tests done was because of the encopresis. Her chiropractor strongly recommended that we do them. I was amazed at how bad the test result was and wonder if anybody knows if these findings are the cause of constipation. Her spine was only slightly off before- just the kind of thing chiropractors routinely work on and it's fine now, I think. And she's not ill at all, which is kind of amazing now that I've read so much about dysbiosis, LGS, etc. and all the harmful effects. She seems so incredibly healthy, and all this time she had a totally messed up gut. But maybe it showed up in very subtle ways. The chiropractor said that maybe in the future she won't be food sensitive and she will be able to eat dairy products again. She actually doesn't test sensitive to that anymore, only the corn syrup. So the therapy is definitely working, but now we'll have to do some intense herbal or antibiotic therapy.
Sorry to have bored you with those test results! But I really wanted Dr. SToll to see them so that he could comment. I wish Rich was also still on the board, he was right about so many things and I'd love to have his opinion.
How is your granddaughter doing now? I would say to stay with the therapy with the metamucil and MO - I trust that. Maybe she'll like the metamucil wafers. Sometimes I put peanut butter between them like a sandwich and even add a little honey if I feel extra generous. Did you see my messy "pop tart" recipe? That really works, and it involved bran not psyllium, though you can sneak that in too, very easily.
I'm sorry about the length of this message! I hope all is going well with you. It's so nice to have support on this board - just 5 weeks ago I felt so isolated, with no one outside the family to discuss this with. Take care.
In Reply to: Re: DR. STOLL - You were right again! posted by Raisa - for Wendy on March 26, 2001 at 18:33:19:
Hi,
I have read through all the articles on magnesium
deficiency on this site and found them very interesting.
I've had coeliac disease (gluten allergy) for ten years
undiagnosed. In this time I have developed a severe
magnesium deficiency (Had a red cell test). Although I
am no longer eating gluten (past 3 years) I am still
having difficulty correcting my low magnesium. I take
400mg a day of magnesium and have had 10 im
injections of magnesium sulphate 1g last year. This
helped but did not get the level back to normal. I am
starting another course of 10 injections hoping that this
will correct it . The severe muscle cramping in my
hands and feet have gone and the vomiting. I still have
muscle spasms/twitches, fast heart rate and
tiredness. When I take the magnesium tabs I can still
feel the effect and the same with the injection although
it does not last. In UK you cannot get IV treatment
unless you are in intensive care with heart failure and
they still use the serum blood level for diagnosis. I
know magnesium is difficult to get back into the cells
after many years of depletion, But could anyone advise
how long with continued injections and oral
magnesium will it take to get rid of all symptoms?
I would be grateful for any advice,
Many thanks,
Melissa
In Reply to: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 26, 2001 at 21:09:12:
Hi, again! I am so happy to learn that your daughter is healthy. Remember the days before all these tests were available? I do, and now I wonder sometimes if we weren't better off then. I say this only because I think that it's possible to worry too much when actually things are pretty normal for that person. I thought that stools always contained weird things because they are "waste". I wouldn't think to have them tested for anything but parasites such as worms, etc., if my child was ill and constantly having diarrhea or cramps or any bad symptoms.
Yes, my daughter is concerned, and is adding lots more fiber to my granddaughter's diet--she especially likes the sunflower seeds, which have helped a lot. She's doing much better. Thank goodness it's my daughter and not my daughter-in-law! She listens to me, but my daughter-in-law would think I was interfering and thinking she was an incompetent mother, instead of realizing that I am only concerned and trying to help. They will be visiting me for two weeks this summer,and I can't wait!! We talk every day almost on the phone or email, but when I can be face to face with my granddaughter I can do much better. A lot of times, I've found, children listen to someone other than their mommies, don't you think so? For instance, I can get her to eat tangerines and prunes, but she never eats them for my daughter. Do you find that at all?
Well, Dr. Stoll is helping both of us. I'll be interested in seeing what he has to say about the tests your daughter took. Hope it's good news! I know you are like me and don't like to say that you've been successful because it may break the spell!! But it does sound as if you are doing very well--don't you think that lots of children "hold back" when they are distracted and having fun? But your daughter is able to do this easily whereas other children can't, but this should change as she gets more and more regular with her movements, don't you think?
I wish you continued good luck!!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa - for Wendy on March 27, 2001 at 11:35:07:
I just wrote you a long letter and the whole thing got deleted somehow! uuugh!
I know what you mean, but I wanted to get to the bottom of the constipation, food sensitivities, mild hyperactivity, etc. - all the subtle things that have been bothering her and clueing me in to the fact that something was "not quite right."
I think that we were very lucky that the only stool sample we sent (we didn't do the recommended three because it would have been too hard!) contained such a strong showing of dysbiosis and a parasite to boot, so now at least we know what's going on. I wonder if the fact that this organism, which is hard to find, as I found out by doing more research on the web, was there on the first try means that she is overrun with the nasty critters. I'm hoping that the medicine will help her. Her doctor said that some of what they learned from the test could explain the slow peristalsis and may have been the cause of her chronic constipation. The confusing thing is that this creature usually causes diarhhea. A lot of people with IBS actually have this organism and don't know it and I'm going to tell my mother who has IBS about that.
I don't know how much the dysbiosis has affected her condition, and I'm looking forward to hearing what Dr. Stoll has to say. Her doctor seems to agree with everything that Dr. Stoll has said so far - her current treatment for constipation (though that's not addressing the root of her problem) the food sensitivity (but not the wheat), the dysbiosis, LGS, etc.
I just want my daughter to be cured of this and not to have to give her so much stuff every day, without fixing what may be causing this problem. I was actually quite surprised to find all this out - I didn't think they'd find such a great imbalance there.
It's so nice for your daughter that you are helping her with this problem and I'm happy to hear that she's as concerned as you are. I'm sure you're right about trying to deal with your daughter-in-law!
No, unfortunately I don't really find that my daughters eat more for other relatives than for me - well, come to think of it, their grandparents have so much junk food and it's true that they never have any trouble getting that down them.
I don't know other children who hold back the way she does, and I have a hard time believing that she'll ever stop doing that. I wish she would. But I'm encouraged by her regularity so far - perhaps there is a light at the end of the tunnel after all!
Anyway, I better end before it gets deleted again.
Good luck and keep those "Dr. Stoll questions" coming!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 27, 2001 at 14:23:00:
Hi, Wendy - I'm assuming you will read this, since we have said "for Raisa and for Wendy" a lot!
One thing I wanted to make sure of is that you read my post to Dr. Stoll about "fructan", which is the ingredient for the Fiber Choice tablets. I spoke to my daughter today, and my granddaughter "went" yesterday after complaining of
pains in her tummy. She asked her mommie to put "cream" on her tummy (since that always cures her bottom soreness).
My daughter told her that wouldn't cure it, but that she should get up (from her nap) and see if she could "poo-poo"
She did stand up, and she had a BM with no discomfort at all. I talked to her (my granddaughter) on the phone and she told me all about it and asked me if I ever had tummyaches--of course, I told her that I do whenever I have to go and that that always helps. She is so precious!
Then my daughter told me that she hadn't given her sunflower seeds for two days but she HAD been giving her the Fiber Choice tablets which I have bought for her, and she was sure that was the reason. Now THAT'S encouraging!
I pray that you are worrying needlessly. But, only a mother knows her child. I do wish you the best of luck! Keep me informed, please, and I will do likewise.
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa on March 27, 2001 at 17:12:31:
That's wonderful news! Was the Fiber Choice the only thing she was getting - not psyllium? HOw many did she get per day? It seems like such a nice easy remedy - I tried one once and it tastes like candy. I wish it wasn't such a mystery about how it works. Is your granddaughter getting a Mineral Oil product, like Kondremul? Oatmeal helps too, and it's easy to slip some bran, psyllium or flaxseed meal in that. It sounds like she's doing great and she is so lucky to have an involved and adoring grandmother!
As far as worrying - I guess I always worry, being a mother, but I'm not worrying about this test result because it actually points to a possible therapy. Her doctor was a little happy about it, saying that now she has a reference point, that it's all curable and that it possibly explains some things. I hope I'm not mistaken in seeing it in a kind of positive way?!
Tomorrow it will be time to get a response from Dr. Stoll, and I'm looking forward to reading it. I hope he answers all my questions (aren't they a pain?) But I do need answers.
Take care!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 27, 2001 at 17:59:14:
Wendy - I was so happy to hear that your doctor said IS CURABLE! Those are magic words! It's good that you follow through on everything, and to confirm it with Dr. Stoll is certainly the right thing to do. He gives very good medical advice plus he does not talk down to people, if you know what I mean, so that we don't feel intimidated and, thus, can feel free to ask more questions "dumb" (which I know many of mine are to a doctor) or not.
I think my daughter only gave 2 tablets to my granddaughter--the only thing I hope is that she won't get tired of them, which she did of the Metamucil (no, as far as I know she hasn't given the Metamucil, although I didn't think to ask if she was giving that too). But, if she gets tired of one, they can go back to the other one, etc., right?
I HOPE you and I are both on the right track (I think we are)!!!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa on March 27, 2001 at 18:49:41:
I think we are too. It's true that children get tired of something they used to like, so we have to rotate the fiber. I sometimes resort to hiding it in certain foods. Even though the psyllium powder seems to be tasteless and invisible she almost always knows it's there, but lately she has been trying to be helpful and ignore the fact that I'm sneaking it in. It just makes it easier to give her the daily doseage than giving her a teaspoon of powder three times a day with a separate glass of water, which used to be a treat but which she has now gotten tired of. I wonder if psyllium is more effective than other kinds of fiber.
Her pediatrician doesn't like the idea of high fiber diets - she says it irritates the intestines and can cause problems down the line. But what else can we do? I'll stick to this because it's working so well. I'm glad the therapy is working for your granddaughter as well!
If you're into subterfuge, here are a few ideas:
a) spreading psyllium on bread, then buttering it and toasting it if she likes it that way, and/or spreading jam over it which hides it completely
b) putting the mineral oil in chocolate milk (soy milk in our case) or yogurt
c) mixing psyllium with peanut butter
d) putting psyllium or flaxseed meal in eggs
e) mixing either powder in cereal
f) grinding up Fiber One cereal (which is VERY high fiber) adding cinnamon and serving "sugar crumbs"
That's just to name a few! If you have a favorite way, do share!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 27, 2001 at 21:57:37:
Thanks so much for the helpful hints about the psyllium!
Do you use regular psyllium, or Metamucil? My daughter and I use the orange-flavored Metamucil, which would be hard to put into peanut butter; that is an excellent idea, though. Maybe she should get a tasteless variety, but would you get that at a health food store?
She will not drink chocolate milk (I have asked about that).
Same with yogurt. The Fiber One cereal recipe sounds really good, but my daughter wouldn't buy it when we were at the store because she said it was just like All-Bran, and she had used that and it didn't work.
I wonder what your pediatrician thinks would happen later if you give a high-fiber diet now?? My daughter's pediatrician definitely believes in high fiber--every time my daughter would call, the nurse would keep saying to add fiber. It did no good to tell the nurse that it is very difficult to force my granddaughter to eat things she doesn't want. But, as I said, the sunflower seeds and pistachio nuts have done wonders as insoluble fiber.
I'll definitely mention your ideas to my daughter, especially if she gets tired of the Fiber Choice tablets.
Thanks again!
In Reply to: DR. STOLL - You were right again! posted by Wendy on March 26, 2001 at 18:01:30:
Hi, Wendy.
In order of the questions:
1. It is really a crime for a child of this age to have to have been functioning under such a burden!!!!! The conventional medical monopoly has a LOT to answer for for their intentional ignorance that causes innocents like this to suffer for years! The only reason I can come up with is personal and professional greed. The monopoly has to die!
2. The only way you will know is by correcting it and seeing how different a child she is. I can tell you that she will be a diferent person--you will like it. Let us know.
3. This is one of the major recent discoveries! YES!
4. This is not so bad a parasite. The way to address this is by first eliminating the things she is sensitive to AND replacing the normal bacteria. THEN, attack the parasite. The chances are that by the time the normal germs start growing in her gut, this parasite will go away by itself. 5.
6. Part of the explanation for her problem; along with the dairy sensitivity and possibly wheat.
7. How could I diagnose what is going on from so far away, without even seeing her, when her cadre of docs were helpless? They just would not take the time. They only took your money and got away with it.
8. Wait and see. You are gonna like it!
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: How to correct magnesium deficiency? How long? posted by Melissa on March 27, 2001 at 09:49:24:
Hi, Melissa.
Better to put your notes in a string that makes sense with what you are asking about. Please post this one as a new string and call it what the note is about. That way, people with similar concerns will be able to find the information.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa - for Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 11:38:47:
Raisa,
I have both. If she is eating it plain, I give her the Metamucil. If I'm "hiding" it, I use the kind I got in the health food store. All health food stores stock it and it's very cheap. That's the kind that I put in the peanut butter, and you can't even tell it's there. The same with the bagels, bread, etc. - depending on how you do it, it may look slightly different but it tastes the same.
As far as the Kondremul, that can be put in juice too - it tastes ok but makes it lighter, so she'll know something's up.
Actually Fiber One cereal is tastier than All Bran (in my opinion). If it is ground up, with cinnamon and, ok, a little sugar added if necessary, and presented in a cute way I'm sure she'll like it. Once I made a ball with peanut butter and the "sugar crumbs" all mixed together, flattened it out and put a face on it with dried fruit. It was like a real treat. You can call it a "no bake cookie."
In answer to your question, the pediatrician thought a constant diet of high fiber could cause an irritation in the intestines that would stop the peristalsis, and the paralyzed colon would make her even more constipated in the long run. She mentioned something about the ileocecal valve being involved in this problem. I don't know anything else about this and whether or not it's a real concern, but it sure sounded bad.
Bye for now!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 14:41:05:
You must think I live at this computer. Actually, it in a room that is very close to the kitchen, and I have an internet service that keeps my computer on the internet all day; so, it's very easy for me to check my mail or any answers to my posts.
Thanks for the additional info. Those peanut butter "no bakes" sound delicious! I'll get some of the health-food-store psyllium and have it on hand when my daughter comes this summer if she doesn't want to get it now. Dr. Stoll answered my post about the Fiber Choice ("fructan"), and said that he thinks the tablets would be O.K. to give with the ingredients in them that I told him about. So, that is a relief, because I hadn't realized that my daughter was still giving them to my granddaughter! As I told you, she really is very happy with the results!
I also saw Dr.Stoll's answer to your post, and it sounds as if all the things found in her stool can be dealt with, which is good news! Now, if you can just solve the problem with your mom, everything will be fine (or at least on the way to being fine!). Good luck!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa - for Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 15:42:08:
Hmm, maybe I should find out about the internet service you have. This is the most I have ever been on the internet - I never used to use even an hour a month of the 20 hours that are provided on our plan. I dread seeing the bill! But I'm glad to have found this bulletin board - I've certainly learned a lot.
Let me know about how your granddaughter likes the "cookies." My favorite thing is still the odd looking "pop tarts," and I eat them too!
In Reply to: Re: DR. STOLL - You were right again! (Archive testimonial in constipation.) posted by Walt Stoll on March 28, 2001 at 14:16:29:
Dr. Stoll,
I thought I'd repeat the first question in my IBS message in the correct thread, just in case: Can you comment and respond to what I wrote in the first paragraph of the 3/26 post about the lab results? I don't know what the results mean or how bad the dysbiosis is. Were those results unusually bad?
The doctor said that she thinks that the lab will tell her to treat the parasite first, then the imbalance, but I would prefer to do it your way. I've read that therapy for this microorganism would take 20 days of 3 antibiotics a day. It does sound simpler to do it the other way around, especially since it seems that she is asymptomatic.
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 16:38:42:
My computer is hooked up to my cable. Some cable companies don't offer this yet, but both my daugher and my son have it too, which is nice. My daughter is home all day, but my son uses his only at night and likes it very much because he can get on the internet so easily. Of course, like anything, people still have problems. I haven't had any yet.
See what your bill is now that you use it more often and compare it to the cost of a cable connection (if this is possible in your area). I had never had a computer until last year--I had no idea how to use it at first. Fortunately, I can type, and with email that's 3/4 of the battle!
I forgot to mention your other "pop tart" recipe. I'll try that when they come this summer. I'll try it before then for myself!!
"talk" to you later!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by RAisa - for Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 17:35:51:
Hi,Wendy - I forgot to mention in my last post that my daughter does give the mineral oil,too. My granddaughter doesn't seem to know it's in the orange juice, luckily. She does realize she's taking her "medicine", as she calls it; but she doesn't know what it's for. My daughter was mixing the Metamucil and the mineral oil together with the juice, so some of the Metamucil stayed at the bottom (I think). Now she just gives the mineral oil with the juice and then gives the 2 Fiber Choice tablets. So far, it's been good, as I said. We'll see.....
In Reply to: A leftover question posted by Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 16:48:04:
Wendy, I think our messages are "passing in the night".
Walt
In Reply to: A leftover question posted by Wendy on March 28, 2001 at 16:48:04:
Just to update you, here is the therapy that the doctor prescribed:
1) Citriciden (Thorne) 1 pill 3 times per day
2) Ultra Flora Plus (Metagenics) 1 pill 2 times per day
3) Ultradophilus (Metagenics - we won't use this because it only comes in powder. I'm looking into finding a different brand which comes in capsule form. Do you have any ideas?) She wanted us to use something other than the Primadophilus which we were using, since the lab test showed that it didn't work for her.
I ordered the first two items. She felt that we should do this for three weeks, see if she's better then maybe start another course of the same therapy because parasites are hard to get rid of. She said that GS told her that her
D. Fragilis usually causes diarrhea, but it has been known to cause constipation too (though I've never seen anything on the net about it affecting people that way). She said that perhaps her body was overcompensating for the diarrhea problems this microorganism caused, causing constipation. I find that interesting, because over the years she used to be prone to diarrhea and only a year ago that stopped. So here comes the usual round of questions:
a) what do you think of this therapy?
b) Do you agree or disagree with the comments concerning the parasite and why she may be constipated?
c) She said that we should lower the amount of metamucil and MO after a few weeks of doing the herbs - what do you think? It seems like that will be the only way of knowing if she's getting better or if there is another reason she's constipated.
d) When do you think there will be an improvement?
e) What should we look for - she'll still be taking the psyllium + MO which keeps her very regular so I don't know how we'll see a change.
Thank you for your continued support!
Other business: thank you for telling me about the FMU issue and also the doctor referral. My mother will be surprised to finally hear somebody say that IBS is one of the easiest chronic conditions to resolve! I will order that issue pronto.
In Reply to: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Wendy on March 30, 2001 at 16:41:44:
Hi, Wendy.
I think stopping what is working, so soon, is VERY risky.
I have no experience with the rest of your questions. My only question would be: So long as the MO and fiber is working so well and is TOTALLY harmless, what is the hurry to stop it?
It is doing nothing, yet, about the parasite, so why is she doing so well if it is so critical to TREAT the parasite at this stage?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Walt Stoll on April 01, 2001 at 10:01:06:
Hi Dr. Stoll,
No, I won't stop the MO and psyllium therapy. I was going to taper it off very, very slowly over a period of months, and not start doing that until later. The amounts we're giving her now are perfect for her (1 TBL MO, 1 TBL psyllium, 1 tsp flaxseed meal).
But there is one thing concerns me about the therapy. Her doctor said that the pills (Citricidin & Ultra Flora Plus) may cause diarrhea as her flora balance changes. We are going to go on an 8-hour round-trip bus ride to Canada on 4/11 and I want to avoid this kind of problem. The pills will arrive in a couple of days.
1) What can I do to prevent or stop the diarrhea if it starts? I just have a feeling that is going to happen. She's been through so much over the years and is finally feeling fine and has been VERY regular for 1 1/2 months - is there a way to make this herb therapy easier? Would the diarrhea stop after awhile or continue for a long time? *Also, if she does get it, what should I do about the MO and psyllium doseages?
2) Are there any other side effects and how should we counteract them?
3) Somebody sent a post today mentioning that Lactobacillis is better than acidophilus when a person has LGS. That makes a lot of sense because the acidophilus didn't work at all for my daughter. Should I buy Lactobacillis instead of acidophilus? Do they serve the same purpose?
4) Should I give her the entire dosage immediately (3x a day and 2x a day) or should I start off gradually (like I did with the psyllium) to avoid some problems like bloating or diarhhea?
5) Do you know how long this therapy will take to work? The doctor said that the longer she's had this parasite the longer it will take to get rid of it. I know that neither of us knows how long she's had it, but do you have a ballpark figure?
I'm glad that we're finally on the right track and actively working to resolve the problem. Thank you for all your help.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Wendy on April 01, 2001 at 15:11:02:
Hi Wendy: I saw your post to Dr. Stoll and thought I would tell you about my little granddaughter's progress. My daughter told me that my granddaughter had a soft BM without telling them and that the only way they knew was that she said she couldn't ride in her little car because she had "poopoo" in her diaper!! So, there was no big fuss, which had been happening each time. Then the day after that she sat on her little potty with her clothes on and told her mommy that she was "undressed and going to do 'poopoo' in her potty". Of course, she didn't even do it in the diaper, but it shows that she's not afraid of the potty anymore now that my daughter is talking about her little potty instead of the toilet with a seat on it. Doesn't that sound like great progress?
Dr. Stoll has helped both of us tremendously with this. If I were YOUR mother, I would tell you not to worry about the parasites and to continue what you are doing and not to give those herbs at least until after you get back from your trip. Of course, my daughter might not (probably would not) listen to me!!
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Wendy on April 01, 2001 at 15:11:02:
One more thing I would like you to know is that when I had diarrhea, my doctor told me to take Metamucil to add bulk!
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Raisa on April 01, 2001 at 17:41:07:
Hi Raisa,
It sounds like your little granddaughter is doing great! Congratulations on her progress. I think this will be so easy to resolve at her age - she doesn't have all the complications that years of this habit could cause.
Yes, Dr. Stoll has helped both of us and I'll always be grateful.
Her doctor is quite concerned about the parasite because she thinks that she may have had it for many years, and it may have caused her constipation problem (and the constant diarrhea that she used to have). I agree that it has to be gotten rid of but am concerned about her reaction to the treatment. I had probiotics on hand and I gave them to her yesterday while waiting for the ones that I ordered, which I assume will be much stronger. She already reacted with several bowel movements or mild diarrhea and I'm worried about her having worse problems when she gets the full strength of the treatment with the Citricidin (parasite killer) also.
Thank you for your advice about metamucil. AFter I posted my message to Dr. Stoll I remembered that my mother takes it every day for her constant diarrhea - it's good for both extremes. So I'll just continue that part of the therapy and possibly just eliminate the MO if things get too watery.
I hope Dr. Stoll tells me how to manage the diarrhea problem, because after yesterday, I know that's going to happen. I also need to know how long that will continue.
But I think we're both on the road to resolving this troublesome problem!
In Reply to: For Raisa posted by wendy on April 02, 2001 at 11:49:51:
Hello again, Wendy - The thing is that you told me that your daughter doesn't feel ill!! Apparently you have a lot of faith in the doctor who prescribed the medicine--that is really very important. I have always been skeptical--not that I don't think the doctor is knowlegeable, but that I think that when a doctor specializes in some particular field, he/she tends to look for things mainly in his/her field of expertise. Is your doctor a Pediatrician?
I realize I'm acting as if you're my daughter-sorry, I don't mean to be, guess I just can't help it. It's just that you told me that your daughter was doing so very much better after you put her on the MO and Metamucil (except for a little staining, which is common.)
Well, no matter what, you'll get an answer from Dr. Stoll before you leave for your trip. I would just hate to see you have problems on your trip just because you tried new medicine, when your daughter was fine (though not completely fine) before you started the new medicine.
In other words, I want you to have a fun trip and not be constantly worried about the side-effects of that new medicine!!
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Wendy on April 01, 2001 at 15:11:02:
Hi, Wendy.
I would NEVER change treatments just before a trip!!!
Why not use both of the probiotics? Remember there are nearly 500 different kinds of healthy species of bacteria in a normal colonic ecology. If we could, practically, give them ALL....
If she were mine, I would not even consider treating the "parasite" (since she likely has others undiagnosed as yet) until her basic problem has been resolved for 6 months. THEN, I would still repeat the test for parasites before deciding.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa - for Wendy on April 02, 2001 at 20:15:48:
Thank you, Raisa!
I've just been giving her probiotics so far. The diarrhea went away after the first day and her doctor felt that it wasn't the probiotics that caused it - she thought it was something she ate. She said that it's very rare to get diarrhea from the pills - she's never seen it happen in her practice.
I don't know what to do about the parasite pills when they arrive. It's confusing because I thought that taking probiotics and Citrocidin was what she had to do to resolve the LGS, which her doctor says she has. Dr. Stoll and her doctor seem to agree on what is wrong with her, and the fact that the LGS/dysbiosis is the reason for all the allegies, the constipation and other problems she's had over the years. But parasitewise, they disagree on the therapy. I would like to get the parasite out of her system because I feel that's the reason for some of these problems and I guess I have to find out whether changing the intestional flora alone will definitely irradicate the parasite, and also whether Dr. Stoll doesn't like Citrocidin and if not, why. If I give it to her I can always stop it if she reacts badly to it - it is just for 3 weeks. I am confused, I want so badly to do the right thing and in my heart I feel that the right thing to do is to clean out her system and get rid of everything that shouldn't be there.
She's not a pediatrician but she treats (and has helped) many children. (My daughter's own pediatrician was clueless as to how to solve this problem - she had her taking Karo syrup, which it turns out she's allergic to. She told us that the constipation had to do with slow motility and that it will improve when she reaches puberty, which will be late for her. Other than suggesting bitters, she had no helpful advice - just wait until it improves.) She's still her pediatrician, but we now go to the new doctor who is actively working to cure the problem, and really cares.
Her new doctor says that the dysbiosis was probably what was causing the slow motility in the first place. For the first time I have two doctors whose proactive approach is pointing out the REASON for the problem and a possible permanent cure. Now I just have to figure out what to do about the pills! No matter what, I'm continuing the other therapy.
Oh, I do run on! I must be thinking aloud - sorry to make this so long. I understand everything that you've said and I appreciate your concern. I'm giving it a lot of thought. It's hard when two doctors who you greatly respect have differing opinions. Thank you for listening!
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Wendy on April 01, 2001 at 15:11:02:
Dr. Stoll,
I'm a little confused and hope you can clarify things. You said why not use both of the probiotics. The pills we bought were Citrocidin (grapefruit extract, 3x day for the parasite) and Ultra Flora Plus (probiotics which have acidophilus) 2x day, and I'm supposed to give her both and start now. Are those what you meant? Those are the only two I'm supposed to give her. Does that mean you agree with the therapy?
If not, it must be the Citrocidin that gives you pause. There weren't any listed side effects, but I was wondering if there was something about that herb that you think is unsafe or ineffective. Please let me know. The doctor doesn't feel they will cause diarrhea.
She has been taking probiotics for the past few days. Do you feel I should continue with one or both of the above pills?
Please tell me specifically what you think of the therapy - her doctor says that will help the LGS. Thank you.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Update on therapy posted by Walt Stoll on April 03, 2001 at 09:10:57:
Dr. Stoll,
I forgot to ask, if I just give her the 3 Ultra Flora Plus probiotics per day to heal the LGS, and nothing else, how many weeks should I give them to her?
How will I know when the LGS is resolved? She's been living with it for so long, I won't know what to look for in terms of an "improvement."
And do you think probiotics cause diarrhea?
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on April 03, 2001 at 10:56:03:
Oh, Wendy, I know what it is like to worry about your children!! One of my sons was diagnosed with Diabetes when he was 6 and 1/2, and this was devastating! I wondered what I had done (too much sugar in his diet, etc.) to cause this. Now he's 40, and I still worry about him, but thank God, he's had very few problems that many of the children who weighed their food had, and equally important, he hasn't felt "different". What I'm trying to say, is that we try to do everything we can, and we read and read and listen and listen and get more and more confused.
If you feel you want to get rid of the parasites, then try to, BUT just don't start it until after your trip to Canada!
That trip won't be long, and she's not suffering any ill effects from those parasites, so why take a chance, when if she did get ill or have a reaction to anything, you wouldn't know who to go to in Canada! Besides, you wouldn't enjoy yourself wondering each day whether she WOULD
have diarrhea or something because of the anti-parisite medicine!! What's the use of going on a nice trip if you aren't going to be without worry??
Well, those are "Grandma Raisa's" feelings about it. Just do what you feel is best but won't cause you needless worry or troubles on your trip!
I must tell you about my granddaughter--I'm not sure how often she's going, but my daughter says "about" every day. She now will not take the Metamucil because her Daddy gave her apple juice and the Metamucil doesn't mix well with that.( tsk., tsk.) And, my daughter does not feel that apple juice is good for anything! Now all my granddaughter wants is apple juice!! But she is still giving her the Fiber Choice tablets. I told her to get the tasteless psyllium that you told me about, but she thinks that would be a waste, since she is sure they won't need it much longer and she still has lots of Metamucil left. As Dr. Stoll would write - sigh! But what really made me feel happy is that before she started taking the apple juice she had to "poop",
and my daughter told her she had to keep standing up so she could go. So, my granddaughter went behind the couch, saying she needed her "privacy",and then just went without a fuss!! So, things are definitely better, but I'm still not going to be overly confident!!
I'm much worse at going on and on than you could ever be!!
Don't ever think you are writing too much - I like hearing from you.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 03, 2001 at 11:17:11:
The Ultra Flora Plus that her doctor prescribed just arrived and I was disappointed to see that it only has 2 ingredients: Lactobacillis acidophilus - 5 billion, and Bifdobacterium infantis - 5 billion. Since the primadophilus that she was taking for months (with 29 billion) didn't "take" at all according to the lab test, I don't see how this will cure her leaky gut, but maybe I'm wrong.
For the past few days I've been giving her what I already had - Stockbridge Naturals Pro-Biotic 12 which included Bifdobacterium (Bif) bifdum, Bif. Iongum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillis (Lac.) bulgaricus, Lac. casei, Lac. plantarium, Lac. reuteri, Lac. salivarius, Bif. infantis (200 mil) Lac. brevis, Lac. acidophilus (1,200 mil), & Lac. rhamnosis. These capsules have 3 billion cells each. It seems that there is more of a variety of friendly bacteria in the Stockbridge brand than in the Ultra Flora Plus that just arrived, but maybe the larger amount of the two in the new formula are more important - I just don't know. *Which ones are better? Is this the LGS cure?
*Please tell me exactly what pills I should be giving her to safely cure her LGS. The grapefruit seed extract (Citricidin) also arrived today (50 mg) and I asked about that in my last post. Thank you very much for your help.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 03, 2001 at 11:17:11:
Wendy,
The citrocidin is for the parasite and is not a probiotic. There are literally dozens of probiotics now available in the health food store. Sorry for the confusion.
To MY knowledge, the citrocidin has nothing to DO with improving the LGS in the long run. She is saying that eliminating the parasite will help the LGS and that is likely true in the short run.
Remember that the biggest job right now is to be sure that her basic problem is resolved and won't come back. THEN is the time to deal with these other, associated, conditions.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Questions about therapy posted by Walt Stoll on April 05, 2001 at 08:37:57:
Are you saying that we shouldn't start treating her for the LGS at all yet?
Should we be continuing to only give her the MO, psyllium and probiotics for the remaining 4 1/2 months? If the Metagenics Ultra Flora Plus that the doctor recommended is your choice of probiotics (I asked about that in my last post) how many should she take per day?
How long should we be eliminating corn syrup, which is in so many prepared foods?
While we're resolving the constipation situation, is there anything we also could/should be doing to help the LGS situation?
I just want to be sure to do the right thing. Thank you in advance for answering all of the questions!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa - for Wendy on April 03, 2001 at 19:16:33:
I didn't see your last post until just now as I was checking my 4/3 post! I'm sorry - somehow I missed it!
I'm sorry to hear about what you went through finding out that your son had diabetes. I remember when I was in 7th grade my best friend got diagnosed with that and her entire life changed - weighing food, taking shots in the stomach every day, doing her own urine samples - all at age 12 1/2. Back then she poured loads of saccherin (sp?) on her cereal instead of sugar (before they knew it was dangerous) and had to cut out all sweets (unless she had a "reaction," then she had to quickly pop a sugar cube.) She couldn't even go on a diet to lose some extra pounds because everything had to be measured just so. Were things like that for your son? Medical science has changed so many things since then, and I'm so happy to see the wonderful array of sugerfree sweets on the market, especially the ice cream. I often wonder how these changes have affected her life. Does your son find that it's easier to cope nowadays? Does he enjoy the sugarfree desserts? Is he in good health?
It certainly sounds like your granddaughter is getting better. The whole thing is getting over the fear of going. At her age that's all it is.
I won't start eliminating the parasite yet because Dr. Stoll said not to (and you're right, I wouldn't do it before the vacation anyway). That will make it a little awkward with her practicioner, who thinks that's the first thing that must be done. But she also felt that since her muscles are testing so strong with the dairy now, that we can start slowly introducing dairy again soon, and I'm afraid to do that. It seems that Dr. Stoll wants to do things very slowly and gradually and her approach is little faster and perhaps a little risky. I just don't know.
But I'm still a little unclear about what to do about the LGS - whether simply getting her regular will help to cure that or whether I need to give her special supplements. I asked and (I'm sorry, Dr. Stoll!) sometimes don't get overly specific answers to my sometimes numerous annoying questions, but I hope I will this time. At least she's "going" 6 days out of every 7 and often goes twice after the day she missed, so that's regular enough for me! I hope she never relapses, because I don't think I can go through that again.
I think apple juice would have a slight laxative affect - it seems to be a nice mild way of getting your granddaughter to go. But if things ever get difficult again, I wouldn't hesitate to resort to subterfuge and sneak those little amounts of flavorless psyllium into some food! (Did you ever give her metamucil wafers with peanut butter? That might seem like a treat.) But that's a moot point - it sounds like she's doing just fine without all that stuff.
Thank you for all your advice and caring words. Take care!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on April 05, 2001 at 14:49:03:
Hi, Wendy - You are usually so prompt in answering my posts that I was starting to wonder, but I've missed posts to me so I know how that happens.
Thanks for asking about my son. I was in denial when my son was showing little symptoms because I would look them up and see nothing about children getting diabetes! And I didn't know of anyone in either my husband's or my family who had it, and they said it was hereditary, that fat people got it, usually older people, etc. Nothing was said in my baby books about extreme hunger or thirst in a child.
And, of course, I WANTED to believe it wasn't anything, since he had such a good appetite. Also, when he really started the symptoms of extreme hunger and extreme thirst,
and being incontinent(a little) during the night, I had reasons for all of it, in my mind. We were on vacation at a beach, and I was so happy that he was eating so well, and we bought lots of sugar soda (!!), which I thought he drank so much of because of the heat, and he once got up in the middle of the night and urinated at the foot of our bed, which was really weird, but we were on vacation,so I tried to make that O.K. too! Then when we got back home and he was back in school I would quiz him about how many times he got a drink of water, hoping that finally all his thirst, etc. would be over. But, I did make an appointment with our wonderful pediatrician. The minute we walked into his office and he said that my son was the same weight as he had been at his last appointment, I finally realized that he had Diabetes. The pediatrician said that having all that sugar at the beach actually kept him from going into a coma. He was very calm about it and gave me a urine test kit and said to check him every day. Well, I checked him every 10 minutes, and he had ketones, which I saw in a book about diabetes, are a sign of impending diabetic coma. So, I called and put him in the hospital in one day. We were very fortunate that he didn't go into a coma because, I understand, that makes it harder to control. While in the hospital he got Mumps!!! The doctor laughed at the nurses because they were frantically trying to find him a private room.
My pediatrician believed in the "free" method, and I am so glad he did. He had me regulate his insulin shots. I would call him EVERY morning to give him my son's urine test results and he would decide whether to increase the insulin.
And if it was Halloween, he would say to give him more insulin so that he could eat some candy just like my other two did. Same with all holidays. He said that it was very important for him to grow up not feeling "different".
It was very scary for me, and I know my other two children sometimes resented the extra attention I had to give him.
But it all paid off, and now he wears an Insulin Pump and changes the site every three days. Of all three of them, this son is the calmest and has wonderful outlook on life. He has accepted all his limitations and is very happily married and has a precious 4 year old son. So, that's my story.
I'm so glad you aren't going to do anything about the parasite problem. I've been meaning to ask you, what is dysbiosis? I can't find it in any of the books I have. Am I spelling it wrong? It sounds as if your daughter is doing extremely well on the withholding!!! Six out of seven days is wonderful!! My daughter is happy with every other day with my granddaughter (which I know isn't often enough in the beginning at least, until she's totally over being afraid). I haven't asked her a lot about the progress.
I didn't know that apple juice was supposed to help with constipation. My daughter thinks its all sugar with no vitamins or fiber or ANYTHING, but they had bought it for her in-laws and they didn't want it; I have a feeling that her mother-in-law suggested to my daughter's husband that he give it to her. I don't want to get in the middle of THAT so I just haven't said anything. I sure hope it will work on her as you said it does on others!! Is your daughter showing any signs of puberty? I had a friend when I was 12, who was 11 years old. She was way ahead of me in physical development. I was wondering if some of her problems could stem from her hormones changing, BUT I don't mean ADDITIONAL problems, just the ones she already has.
Is that at all possible? Well, it seems that you have things very much under control. Do you order your probiotic, and anti-parisitic medicines from the practioner?
Thanks for writing.
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa on April 05, 2001 at 17:30:15:
Hi Raisa,
Dysbiosis is an imbalance of the flora in the intestines - she has too much of the bad bacteria which kills the friendly flora. The parasite(s?) is part of the problem and someday I'll have to deal with that. Her problem was so bad that the acidophilus that I gave her every day didn't show up at all in the stool sample - it all got killed off.
Apple juice, prune juice (ick) and pear juice are all good for constipation - especially for young kids.
No, my daughter is small, not developed and her pediatrician said that she will have a late puberty. If anything, puberty helps the constipation problem because of the estrogen. Her pediatrician wanted us to just wait for her puberty for a resolution to the problem - yeah, right.
No, I ordered the parasite medicine from Thorne and the flora pills from Metagenics - the practicioner recommended them but didn't have them. Now I have to figure out when to give them.
I'm glad to hear that your son is doing fine and can wear an insulin pump. Things sure have changed since my friend started dealing with diabetes in middle school - she was not allowed to have any candy at all and hated giving herself all those shots every day. They didn't even have the laser eye treatments back then. I've heard that dietwise things have relaxed a little, making it a easier for children to deal with the disease - what great progress.
Bye for now!
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on April 05, 2001 at 18:21:16:
Wendy, I hope that possibly a lot of your daughter's problems will go away with puberty (of course, you have to deal with them now!!). Wouldn't that be great, though? How did you find out that she had dysbiosis? Was she having diarrhea or having cramps--what symptoms did she have that you needed to have her stool tested? I'm sure you are thinking that I am asking dumb questions! But, I had never heard of that and just wondered what the symptoms are are.
Also, I want to be sure that you didn't get the impression that my son was on a normal diet - actually it WAS and IS still a normal diet because children (and adults, too) have too much sugar and fat. The diabetic diet is really very healthy. But the main reason they called it "free" is that the food didn't have to be weighed and measured. Many of the children back then (in 1965) automatically went to Joslin Clinic in Boston. We would have done that if our pediatrician had suggested it, but he fortunately believed even back then that it would make him feel too "different". So, he allowed some freedom also in the holiday candy and birthday cake by changing his insulin dose on those days. Some of the children would refuse to be on such a strict Joslin Clinic diet with such deprivation. One of my son's friends who also had diabetes could only have half a banana for a snack. He was very thin, and my son went to the Joslin Diabetes Camp with him one summer, and they had his friend on a diet to gain weight. Everyone at the camp had many insulin reactions, including my son, and it took him a long time to get back to normal when he came home.
When is your trip? This month, isn't it?
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa on April 06, 2001 at 15:11:37:
Hi Raisa,
To answer your question, we had to have her stool tested to find out why she has been chronically constipated. Dr. Stoll told me he suspected dysbiosis and LGS, which was confirmed by the lab.
That's interesting about the free diet for diabetics. I guess my friend had the wrong pediatrician - she followed a very healthy diet, but it was weighed, measured and very strict. There was no option of taking extra insulin on special occasions. I imagine things are different for her now, at least I hope so.
We're leaving next week - looking forward to it.
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Wendy on April 06, 2001 at 17:23:03:
Hi again!
So which treatment did you start first--the mineral oil and Metamucil, or the LGS and dysbiosis treatment? Because if you did both at the same time, wouldn't it be hard to know which definitely cured the constipation? (so far)
My granddaughter has slipped back into withholding. I think it may be because my daughter couldn't give the Metamucil with apple juice. She finally "went" after they talked about it all day,and she cried before she was successful, but it was soft. So she says that now she is again taking the Metamucil, so we'll see how that works out.
I know that Dr. Stoll has said many times that the child must have a BM twice a day. I think that my daughter is learning that he is right. It's hard for me to say too much, but I do keep repeating that it's very important to keep up with both the MO and the psyllium (or at least some other fiber supplement, but I do prefer Metamucil).
I'm happy that you have two weeks to go before your trip--that's two weeks more that you have left to decide what exact things to give her for her constipation and LGS and dysbiosis. You should know by then just by the process of elimination, right? Please write before you go.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll - Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 05, 2001 at 09:50:06:
Hi, Wendy.
By what you are already doing, for her age, probably you are doing what is practical for now for the LGS.
1. Yes.
2. She can't take too much.
3. Probably forever. Everyone knows that the healthiest amount is ZERO. For this problem, at least the 4 1/2 months left.
4. SR (see Deborah Rozman's book "Meditating with Children"), exercise, the diet & probiotics are all that needs to be done right now.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Raisa posted by Raisa on April 06, 2001 at 20:48:28:
Hi Raisa,
The only treatment we've been doing so far (for 1 1/2 months) is the MO and psyllium. That's what cured the constipation problem so far. The LGS and dysbiosis problem has to be fixed too, and I'm waiting to hear from Dr. Stoll as to how and when to do it. He told me to use probiotics for a start and I started to do that. I will check today's posts to see if the answer is there.
The trip is next week - just a few days. I've already decided to just continue what I'm doing now - it's working very well.
I think you must make sure your granddaughter gets BOTH the MO and psyllium. I have done just high fiber diets, and just MO in the past. Both worked only temporarily. It's too soon to be sure, but I think mixing them would be the permanent cure - one doesn't work well without the other. I will do this as long as it takes - a minimum of 6 months, but maybe a year. That's another question I will have to ask Dr. Stoll (as if I don't ask enough already!) But relapses are very, very common, and it's important to get her back on tract when that happens. There are wonderful mild herbal laxatives that you can get in the health food store, and squeeze into a gel capsule. That's what I used during the past couple of months when she missed a day and I was afraid that the cycle would start again. She's only missed about 6 days in all that time.
Since your daughter can't give her the metamucil with the apple juice (which is quite understandable) I would recommend getting the unflavored kind from the health food store and sprinkling it on her food.
HOpe this helps.
In Reply to: Is That All There Is? Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 04, 2001 at 13:40:14:
Hi, Dr. Stoll,
This post didn't get answered, and I'm still trying to decide exactly which pills to give her now. Slightly modified, here it is again!
The Metagenics Ultra Flora Plus that her doctor prescribed just arrived and I was disappointed to see that it
only has 2 ingredients: Lactobacillis acidophilus - 5 billion, and Bifdobacterium infantis - 5
billion.
Since the primadophilus that she was taking for months (with 29 billion) didn't "take" at all according to the lab test, I don't see how this will cure her dysbiosis, especially when I read that her system is probably alkaline and not a good environment for acidophilus. 1) Please comment.
For the past few days I've been giving her what I already had - Stockbridge Naturals Pro-Biotic 12 which included Bifdobacterium (Bif) bifdum, Bif. Iongum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillis (Lac.) bulgaricus, Lac. casei, Lac. plantarium, Lac. reuteri, Lac. salivarius, Bif. infantis (200 mil) Lac. brevis, Lac. acidophilus (1,200 mil), & Lac. rhamnosis. These capsules have 3 billion cells each. It seems that there is more of a variety of friendly bacteria in the Stockbridge brand than in the Ultra Flora Plus that just arrived, but maybe the larger amount of the two in the new formula are more important - I just don't know. 2)Which ones are better? 3)Would they help cure the LGS?
4)Do you think that Primal Defense is better for her than both of the above?
5) Please tell me exactly which pills I should be giving her at this point. The grapefruit seed extract (Citricidin) also arrived (50 mg). Should I not be giving that to her at all?
Thank you very much for your help.
In Reply to: Re: Is That All There Is? Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 07, 2001 at 11:37:01:
Wendy,
Be sure to wait at least 48 hours for a response.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Is That All There Is? Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 07, 2001 at 11:37:01:
Hi Dr. Stoll,
This post from 4/4 and 4/7 still didn't get answered so I'll try again. I'm going away tomorrow, and I'd really like to have an answer to this before I get back from my trip next week, so that I'll know what kind of supplements to give her for her LGS. Thank you - here's the post.
The Metagenics Ultra Flora Plus that her doctor prescribed has arrived and I was disappointed to see that it
only has 2 ingredients: Lactobacillis acidophilus - 5 billion, and Bifdobacterium infantis - 5 billion.
Since the Primadophilus that she was taking for months (with 29 billion) didn't "take" at all according to the lab test, which showed none in her system, I don't see how this will cure her dysbiosis, especially when I read that her system is probably alkaline and not a good environment for acidophilus.
1) Please give me your comments to the above.
For the past 10 days I've been giving her what I already had - Stockbridge Naturals Pro-Biotic 12 which included Bifdobacterium (Bif) bifdum, Bif. Iongum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillis (Lac.) bulgaricus, Lac. casei, Lac. plantarium, Lac. reuteri, Lac. salivarius, Bif.
infantis (200 mil) Lac. brevis, Lac. acidophilus (1,200 mil), & Lac. rhamnosis. These capsules have 3 billion cells each. It seems that there is more of a variety of friendly bacteria in the Stockbridge brand than in the Ultra Flora Plus, but maybe the larger amount of the two in the new formula are more important - I just don't know.
2)Which ones are better?
3)Would they help cure the LGS?
4)Do you think that Primal Defense is better for her than both of the above?
5) Please tell me exactly which pills I should be giving her at this point. I also have the grapefruit seed extract (Citricidin - 50 mg). Should I not be giving that to her at all?
Thank you in advance for the answer to these questions.
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll: Is That All There Is? Questions about therapy posted by Wendy on April 10, 2001 at 11:16:51:
Hi, Wendy.
I specifically remember responding to these questions. Since I spend so much time responding to you I hope you can find my responses to help me not have to type it all again.
Remember: ALL responses are 48 yours after the post. Unless, lilke these, I have to get ahead for another project.
Walt
Walt
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