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My daughter now 2 yrs. and 10 months developed this problem after a run of several weeks of antibiotics for chronic ear infections that began last year in November. She would withhold for up to five days and starting about day 3 she would begin what we call the "potty dance" and cry every time the urge would hit. The waves would come closer and closer until she could not control it and she would eventually go. I used Milk of Mag. for several months with her and it would keep her going but we would still have experience the same "potty dance" and screams before she would finally go. She would cry for sometimes 5 mins. after she would go and she hated the poo poo being on her. Of course, because of all the issues we were experiencing I didn't even begin to potty train until we got it under some form of control. About 6 weeks ago I came upon this website, after months of frustration and feelings of helplessness this website brought some sense to the problem and I suddenly did not feel alone. We have been using the MO and Metamucil for six weeks and I see some progress. I will say I become scared of giving her too much of either substance and I think I have prolonged her progress myself due to the concerns of everything you read in the archives i.e. choking, vitamin absorption, etc. I do aggree that nothing could be worse than what she is going through right now and she has not even reached the levels that I have read about in the archives. Although the problem is better I still have not mastered the dosage amounts. In addition, she has decided to potty train herself. By this I mean she will go get her potty, take off her diaper, sit on the potty for 20 mins., when she gets the urge she jumps up and runs off the potty holding her legs together and then asks to put her diaper on again. We may repeat this cycle 20 times a day. We will use panties sometimes and then she will later insist on putting a diaper back on. It is still a fiasco when she goes 20% of the time she will go on the potty the other 80% she will go in her diaper. What should I do? Do I say "No more diapers." and continue with only the potty. I don't want to discourage her from the potty but at the same time I just want her to go to the bathroom. How do I in a very loving way control this situation for her and have the best results? Also, she only drinks apple juice and will drink about 8oz. of water a day. Is the store bought apple juice constipating?
In Reply to: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on April 30, 2001 at 23:42:41:
I hope you know that you are not alone....My two year old daughter is going through EXACTLY the same thing that yours is. Every word you said also applies to my daughter, and I still haven't found a miracle "cure". She is NOT constipated, and never really has been. She just acts like she's either in pain, or she is very uncomfortable when her poopoos come out. She does the same little "dance" that yours does, sometimes without any results. She just turned two, and also decided to potty train herself. She regularily goes without a diaper, but when it's time to go, she wants her diaper back on. She will sit on her potty chair in the bathroom, and even drags it around the house with her. But when she starts to go pee, she gets up like it scares her, and it runs down her legs. I haven't made a big deal of it at all, in fact I really try to ignore it by just saying, "it's okay, accidents happen." I clean it up and I never yell at her for it. Let me know when your daughter gets over this, and I'll let you know when myne does the same.
In Reply to: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on April 30, 2001 at 23:42:41:
In my opinion, you shouldn't take the diapers away for good, because that could spark fear and insecurity in her over "going" and could make her withhold even more. Sounds like she is working into training herself nicely. She's still young, I'd say give it more time and if she requests a diaper for pooping, let her have it. You said she doesn't like the feel of being messy, so I doubt she will want to stay in diapers for very long, especially once she becomes brave enough to poop on the potty. Good luck!
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by sarahw on May 01, 2001 at 01:34:32:
Isn't it the most pitafull thing you have ever seen. You feel so helpless. Our little one can tell me everything there is to tell about going to the potty and how when the poo poo comes out it makes her tummy feel better. Once she goes I feel I have my child back for a day or two and then she becomes miserable once again. She will also drag her potty around with her and she also acts as though it scares her when she goes tee tee on the potty. I didn't realize I had this much patience in me. I just feel so sorry for her. There are many times I felt she could go on the floor if she would just go! Thanks again for letting me know I am not alone. I am sure this controlling nature will be channeled into a healthy positive habit one day.
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by kmd on May 01, 2001 at 11:48:28:
I feel you are right. I will continue to just encourage and if she will just go to the bathroom I could care less if it is in the potty or in the diaper. She could go on the floor and I would be happy at times. Thanks again!
In Reply to: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on April 30, 2001 at 23:42:41:
Hi - DeAnna, I sent your post to my daughter because it is exactly what my almost-three-year old granddaughter is doing! She does the "dance", etc. The only difference is that she does not want to use a potty even though she sees some of her little friends using it. She does sit on it fully-clothed and pretends but doesn't want to try doing anything in it. Needless to say, my daughter has not pushed potty training at all - just read her the book about it and got her a little potty, that's all. We think she must have had a painful BM at one point, although my daughter didn't know about it.
I found Dr. Stoll's website and couldn't believe how many parents were going through this. Dr. Stoll's advice about using mineral oil and Metamucil helped us tremendously. My daughter had tried milk of magnesia also and had no success with it. For a very short time it seemed that my granddaughter was over it, but then she started withholding again. She did used to have hard stools, but now they are soft after using the mineral oil. Has it just become some sort of habit?
My daughter wrote me after receiving your post and said that she has started talking to my granddaughter after four days and telling her that she has to go poopoo, and then after the dance, etc. she goes. I know it sounds as if she's trying to get attention with this, but that's not it. She doesn't ever talk about it - just acts like your daughter, isn't herself after about three days. After she goes she's so happy and then it starts again.
She has started refusing to drink the juice with Metamucil because she got a "glob" of it and now knows the texture. They tried the wafers but she doesn't like them. She will eat the Fiber Choice tablets and does, but they don't work as well as the Metamucil. Thank goodness she has the mineral oil daily. Please everyone with this problem keep posting any little bit of encouraging news (or any news).
It helps so much to know that at least she isn't unique!
In Reply to: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on April 30, 2001 at 23:42:41:
Hi, DeAnna.
I know that the reason you have not yet resolved this is BECAUSE "you are afraid of giving her too much MO & Metamucil".
If you gave her the doses as recommended, this problem would be over in 6-12 months, much too soon for any problem with vitamin absorbtion, etc. Besides the metamucil is the most important part of this regimen.
If you waffle you can prolong it for years. If you work at it you can get this a LOT worse.
Since dairy hypersensitivity is the second most common cause of this AND 90% of recurrent ear infections are caused by the same thing.....
Fruit juices are no better than sugar KoolAid! ANY fruit juice you give her will cut down the water she will drink and thus promote constipation.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on April 30, 2001 at 23:42:41:
Hi All,
My daughter has had the same problem, we have been to 3 differnt doctors. Have tried the mineral oil, laxatives, colace (stool softer) ect,, Collace does work but you have to give it to them everyday and it has a terrible taste, I put it in hot cocca, and she drinks it fine. I have stopped using it. My daughter is not taking any medications for this problem at this time and is doing wonderful. The REASON I think is: I have been giving her a JELLO GELATIN everyday. I buy the single serve 6 packs and one a day without fail. I know this sounds to simple to be true, but is has worked for us. Please try it. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by Walt Stoll on May 02, 2001 at 11:26:16:
Thank for your advice it does help. I can attack this problem from the offensive side rather than playing defense and feel confident in doing so. Thanks again!
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by Raisa on May 02, 2001 at 09:28:27:
Hi Raisa, I wanted to let you know that we did have a huge success yesterday. Dr. Stoll is right the MO does not work alone it has to have the bulk included. On Tuesday I went to the store and went directly to the organic isle. I got anything I could that had a good source of dietary fiber. I could not get my daughter to drink Metamucil in anything. She took one Fiber Choice and wouldn't take another one. She will eat one wafer but that wouldn't do the trick alone. I bought oat bran crackers, oat raisin cookies, oat bran for her oatmeal etc.. We came home had tea party with water! :) Anyway, yesterday we were starting her little dance and she will say "Mommie hold me and squeeze the poopoo out". We were about to leave the house and as we were getting in the car she got real still and said "mommie I went poo poo" NO TEARS and NO SCREAMING!!!!! This is huge. Of couse it only means now something is working and I have to stay aggressive. On a side note, it is so frustrating for mothers. We get so much advice, conflicting stories from doctors, well meaning people trying to help and you are left to try and sort out what is best for your child. For example, you want to make sure they get enough calcium and yet it milk products can contribute to constipation. Dr. Stoll's plan is working and I will keep you all posted! Thanks!
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on May 04, 2001 at 10:58:54:
Hi, DeAnna - Congratulations! I sent Dr. Stoll's answer to you to my daughter. She says that the fruit juice she gives to my granddaughter is almost half water. And she says she doesn't give her many dairy products, but she does give her the mozzarella cheese sticks and sometimes a grilled cheese sandwich, which I reminded her she does, so hopefully she will stop giving her that, although because she doesn't drink milk my daughter thinks she needs cheese.
She told me that she has started putting less metamucil (1/2 tsp.) in each glass of water/juice, and so far my granddaughter hasn't noticed. She drinks a lot, so by evening she should get at least a tspful. Did you try putting unflavored metamucil in it? Also, she sprinkles on food but must be very careful that my granddaugher doesn't recognize it in the food. One important improvement for my granddaughter is that her stools are soft, as compared to mostly hard. I know my daughter has tried and is trying to give her as much fiber as possible. The thing is that for a while, she loves things like sunflower seeds and then she doesn't. She loves mangoes, but my daughter can't find good ones now. Very frustrating, but at least we are on the right track. Yes, you (and she) will have to continue to keep right on it. For a very short while, my granddaughter would just poop--she would say she needed her privacy (something my son's son says to everyone). We were so thrilled. Then when she got the glob of Metamucil in her mouth she started to be able to tell when it had been added and refuse to drink it. Both of us think Metamucil works much better than other fiber supplements--she, too, has accumulated all kinds of supplements and different crackers, etc.! Hopefully, this will be just a vague memory before long! Please keep in touch.
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on May 04, 2001 at 10:58:54:
Thanks, DeAnna.
Your testimonial will help others!
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by Raisa on May 04, 2001 at 12:40:35:
Dear Raisa, I know the calcium is a huge concern and I often worry about that as well. My daughter loves cheese sandwiches; however, I just can't give it to her much until we get this under some control. I often buy the apple juice that is calcium fortified which will give her a little extra calcium. You can get it at Kroger and I think it is a Kroger brand called Private Selection. Something that she has also enjoyed is the Cracklin Oat Ban cereal she will eat it like a snack without the milk. Thanks for the tip on the unflavored Metmucil I will try it and see if I can sneak it in her watered down juice.:)
In Reply to: Re: Withholding stool and potty training posted by DeAnna on May 07, 2001 at 15:39:08:
Hi, DeAnna.
Dairy is one of the poorest sources for calcium that exists. Look at the archives about milk to learn what foods DO have the highest available calcium.
Walt
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