Hi Doc,
I have a little problem i woke up one day feeling really weird, like I was spacy/ lightheaded in a fog like I'm drugged or something. Now the day before I had this skipping heart thing and it lasted part of the day and went away. I can't tell if it's related because I'm not sure when it really started (the spacy feeling) but when I woke up the next day it was there. My Dr said it was an Anxiety attack and that was that! Well I've been to many more Docs since then. I've had MRI, eye tests, EKG, prostate exam, blood tests, ENG, posturography, hearing test. No conclusive answer except not life threatening. that's good but still this day i'm still off balance/spaced feeling/lightheaded. What can cause this? can a Anxiety attack leave you like this, My feeling never goes away and never changes. My Doc said that anxiety disorder can make you like this, I can't see how this can make me feel this way all the time. I'm trying to get an Idea of what i should do I just can't keep going to Dr.after Dr. Some one else told me that it was my 8th cranial nerve? what kind of damage could be done there and how?
Whew" I know lots of questions,
Help me please!
Bob
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 06, 1998 at 09:48:06:
In Reply to: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob e on October 05, 1998 at 20:43:25:
Dear Bob,
Now is the time for YOU to become the expert in this. You have gone to the professionals whose expertise is in testing. Their results have come up negative.
Were I you, I would do the following:
A. Read carefully a copy of Dr Pelletier's classic "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer". It is likely that it was written about you. Get the most recent edition.
B. See a Cranial Osteopath in consultation. Although this is not the cure for you, it is the most likely thing that would give you temporary relief so that you would have faith in your ability to resolve this. Call (317) 594-0411 for the closest Certified Cranial Osteopath.
I will be surprised if Doc Dave does not have some ideas from the Chiropractic perspective as well since there is little doubt that your symptoms at least have some structural basis.
Let us know how you do & what you learn.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Bob E on October 06, 1998 at 18:21:27:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 06, 1998 at 09:48:06:
Hey Doc,
Thanks for the info! you seem to be more knowledgeable than anyone so far! What is this book about? Also, I've always heard that chiropractic medicine is bogus, coming from you it does NOT seem so. I would like to know more about all of this. In your opinon is there anything physical I need to have checked? You see both my parents have diabetes but both my Drs say my blood tests show nothing related to that. Although my feeling never changes, I've heard anxiety could cause this, it's just a mystery.
Thanks so much for the response so quickly!
Bob
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on October 06, 1998 at 19:19:37:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E on October 06, 1998 at 18:21:27:
Your problem may very well be of a structural nature. An evaluation by a chiropractor would be well advised. Certainly, a cranial osteopath may also be a route to take. Regardless of who you see, skilled relaxation should be a the top of your list.
In regards to your perceptions about chiropractic:
The same people who don't understand what is going on with you are the ones who started lies regarding the validity and efficacy of chiropractic.
As Dr. Stoll can attest, these fallacies were started by the medical profession purely for financial and egotistical reasons. You can read about it in Medicine, Monopolies, and Malice by Chester A. Wilk, D.C. available from Amazon.com
*CHIROPRACTIC(Stedmans medical dictionary)
The system that in theory uses the recuperative powers of the body and the relationship between the musculoskeletal structures and functions of the body, particularly of the spinal column and the nervous system, in the restoration and maintenance of health.
The reason I post this definition of chiropractic is because I want you to look at the similarities between it and the definition of Osteopathy. A medical profession.
*OSTEOPATHY(Stedmans medical dictionary)
2. A school of medicine based upon a concept of the normal body as a vital machine capable, when in correct adjustment, of making its own remedies against infections and other toxic conditions; practitioners use the diagnostic and therapeutic measures of conventional medicine in addition to manipulative measures.
If chiropractic would be willing to relinquish control of itself to Medicine, just as osteopathy did in the 60's at a time when they did NOT use drugs and surgery, then we too could be "one of the boys" but it would mean the loss of a philosophy regarding health and the prevention of disease. The same philosophy that barely even has a heartbeat anymore in Osteopathy in the US. The chiropractic approach to health is as proven as most of the therapies employed by every medical doctor in the country. Unfortunately, only a few MDs like Dr. Stoll are willing to say it. Medicine doesn't have all the answers but they sure don't want to admit that anyone else has any either. Our country consumes half of the medication on the planet yet we are something like 16th out of 20 industrialized nations, in health.
"Get knowledge of the spine, for this is the requisite for many diseases"
Hippocrates, 460-377 BC.
"In view of the rich access of the somatic afferents, via spinal and
supraspinal pathways, to sympathetic neurons, it would be truly amazing
if even relatively minor disturbances in motion of the intervertebral or
other joints, which are amenable to manipulative therapy, did NOT have
autonomic and, therefore, circulatory, metabolic, and visceral
repercussions of some degree. It would be equally surprising if the cost
did not increase with time and with the superimposition of other
detrimental factors in the patients life."
Irvin M. Korr, Department of Biomechanics, Michigan State University
"Chiropractors will never be as busy as they could be and should be...until people lose faith in the unscientific religion of medicine."
Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 1998 at 11:50:16:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E on October 06, 1998 at 18:21:27:
Dear Bob,
Chronic "free-floating" anxiety IS the most common cause of this.
HOWEVER, one must rule out the organic causes first so one can then concentrate on the cause of the anxiety.
How did the docs check your blood for sugar? With your family history, diabetes is a real possibility and you have to be ADEQUATELY checked out. The lazy conventional doc normally does a fasting blood sugar and 95% of all adult diabetics have a normal fasting blood sugar until their disease is so bad that any idiot can find it.
Talk at me.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 1998 at 11:53:47:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on October 06, 1998 at 19:19:37:
Thanks, Doc Dave.
I was hoping that you would weigh in about here!
Your stuff should be required reding for everyone (especially legislators).
Namaste` Walt
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Bob E on October 07, 1998 at 23:13:51:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 1998 at 11:50:16:
Hey Doc,
I must say you really make to much sense, Ok as far as i know they did no special test on me just standard blood test. My Dr doesn't even speak english, much less give me the time of day. I've had 4 blood tests and all were the same test and I told them about my parents and they just blew it off and said I don't have diabetes. One of my symptoms other than funky spacy feeling is I'm always really hungry. It also seems I want sweets more but it's really hard to say. I'm 42 years old and not really overweight a couple of pounds. The main thing is that no matter what I eat it doesn't seem to change!
Go figure
Your help is really great Doc,
Bob
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 08, 1998 at 11:08:01:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E on October 07, 1998 at 23:13:51:
Dear Bob,
One of the first things they taught us in diagnosis class in medical school is that: "If you hear hoofbeats in Kentucky, you don't look for Zebras."
Your family history says that you have to rule out diabetes before looking elsewhere.
The first thing you need is a 2 hour post-prandial blood sugar which would be about 95% accurate at making a diagnosis of adult diabetes. For this, you need to eat a measured meal of at least 100 grams of sugar EXACTLY 2 hours before the blood is drawn. Get to the lab at least 30 minutes before that exsact time & let them know when you finished eating so they have no excuse not to get it right on time. THEN let me know what their standard (for that lab) is for that test AND what your level is.
If this is the least bit suspicious, you will need a 5 hour glucose tolerance test which requires 3 days of dietary preparation for 100% accuracy.
Once diabetes is ruled out, we can concentrate on the next most likely causes.
ANY competent physicain would tell you this if s/he cared to take the time. Conventional medicine could not get away with sloppy thinnking like you have had so far if it did not have a monopoly.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Bob E. on October 08, 1998 at 14:38:32:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 08, 1998 at 11:08:01:
Hey Walt,
As always your words make alot of sense, also I'll take your advice I'm gathering all this info your telling me so I'm at least educated when I go back. Let me ask you If I had any kind of diabetes would my feeling change with eating habits? Also some else told me I may have had a "Lacune stroke" some kind of hole in my tissue? Of couse that sacares the hell out of me. Ya' see there has not been a real caring Dr out there yet. Ons Doc was an ENT and with the tests he did he said "I think something maybe up with your right ear" he wasn't sure of course. He said my eyes pulled to one side durung an ENG water test. I also seemed to fall to one side when my eye s were closed he said and could be a balance thing. Well he gave me steriods and it did nothing.
tell me more of how this free floating anxiety thing works.
Thanks for ALL your help Doc,
Bob E
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by bob e on October 08, 1998 at 14:49:43:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 08, 1998 at 11:08:01:
Oh by the way another symptom, this one is sometimes there for weeks and then gone for weeks. I've had nights where i get up to pee like 3/4 times a night some itmes not at all I do drink alot of water during the day but not before bed. Also my heel on my foot has started hurting, probably unrelated but i felt you should know. Also what is weird is that when I'm playing (I'm a musician) that it's either gone or just maybe because I'm doing something i love i just don't notice it? Some guy told me that's because It's anxiety and it goes away when i play.
Bob
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 09, 1998 at 11:46:48:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E. on October 08, 1998 at 14:38:32:
Hi, Bob.
Just controlling your sugar level may do nothing about your symptoms. After all, it is now known that the long term complications of diabetes seem to happen whether the diabetes is controlled or not (something we docs do not like to hear).
Your ENT may be right. If so, though, what does he propose you do about it?
To understand the free-floating anxiety thing, you will have to digest Dr Pelletier's book. THEN, come back with your questions about that. I think you will find that book was written about you.
Walt
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 09, 1998 at 11:59:39:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by bob e on October 08, 1998 at 14:49:43:
Dear Bob,
Most musicians I know LOVE what they do. The fact that your symptoms go away while you are playing almost proves that it is the anxiety causing it.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Bob E. on October 09, 1998 at 20:33:14:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 09, 1998 at 11:59:39:
Hey walt,
First i want to say thank you much for all your help! I'm goona go to the library and look for that book, but It seems you will be the "only" one that can answer this question, I've been asking it for two years now. "How can Anxiety cause such a physical problem?" what is the scientific explanation. Is it a chemical Imbalance? do your neurotransmitters get out of wak?
Thanks Doc
Bob E
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 1998 at 11:29:26:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E. on October 09, 1998 at 20:33:14:
Dear Bob,
I am not trying to make this a mystery. The reason I have not tried to answer this here is that it takes a book of information to do it.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Bob E on October 10, 1998 at 12:18:00:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob E. on October 09, 1998 at 20:33:14:
Hey walt,
OK I got cha' I'll get the book and read it I'm just impatient and really tired of feelin' this way.
Thanks much!
Bob
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Cindy on October 26, 1998 at 16:42:04:
In Reply to: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Bob e on October 05, 1998 at 20:43:25:
I went through a long period of feeling like that. I thought that something was really wrong with me and I could not get it out of my head. It was controlling my every move. I then started getting really honery all the time and stuff. I kept going to my same doctor and he tried a bunch of stuff until he realized that it was anxiety caused by depression. I didn't think that I was really depressed but I looked back and realized I have had a lot of things happen to me that I guess could take a toll. Anyway, he put me on paxil and it has taken a while but I feel completely back to normal. I still have a slight anxiety that I can feel at times, but I feel normal again. Look at what all is going on with yourself and read on the net about anxiety and the side affects. good luck.
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Janet on November 14, 1998 at 18:27:56:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 1998 at 11:29:26:
Today I started having a strange lightheaded feeling (and some dizziness when bending over then lifting head back up again causes it to get worse). I looked up "lightheadedness" on the internet, and found the back and forth letters between you and Bob on this subject....I saw diabetes as a possible cause. I had gestational diabetes 9 years ago, and do have a weight problem, so I will definately get that checked (being that I'm at a higher risk for that, and my brother also has diabetes). However, another strange coincidence between me and Bob is that he mentioned the sore heel in one post. Strangely enough I have developed a very sore heel (suspected heel spur, and currently have an appointment coming up to check this out), however, since I saw this mentioned in conjunction with his lightheadedness, I have to wonder....is there a possible connection?????
I will check out this lightheadedness when I have my appointment late next week (assume there is no reason to rush to the Dr. immediately....what would you guess).
Thank you.
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on November 15, 1998 at 10:20:45:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Janet on November 14, 1998 at 18:27:56:
Dear Janet,
There are so many things that can cause this that I can only suggest the most vague things till I know more.
First, how old are you? Do you have a family history of atherosclerosis & its sequelae? Do you have a family history of diabetes?
Be sure you get at least a 2 hour post prandial blood sugar since a fasting (or random) blood sugar is TOTALLY worthless. To be sure, you would have to have a 5 hour glucose tolerance test with a propper 3 day preparation prior to the test. Also, see Bob McFerran's notes about this on 11/13/98.
It is not very likely that diabetes is this cause of this. However, since it COULD be it cerrtainly has to be ruled out before you spend a lot of time on other possibilities.
If it were me, I would be starting to take one adult aspirin 3 times a week. It is possible that this is a carotid artery partial obstruction & you would need to prevent a possible stroke till you could reverse the process. Since taking 3 aspirin a week is not likely to harm you, why take the risk?
Walt
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Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Janet on November 16, 1998 at 11:53:31:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on November 15, 1998 at 10:20:45:
Thank you very much for your response to my query....I only just found this site, but think I will visit it often.
I am 46 years old, about 30 pounds overweight. My brother has diabetes (controlled by diet), and 9 years ago I had gestational diabetes (also controlled well by diet...I was told that my diabetes was marginal, almost not diabetes at all, but to be safe it was watched). However, now that I am middle-aged, and overweight (working on that...can't do much about the age though) I am aware that I am at a higher risk category.
I will ask my Dr. to check out the diabetes possibility (something that's been on my mind anyway). In the meantime, I will take adult aspirin, you're right, it can't hurt anyway.
Thank you very much.
Follow Ups:
Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by Walt Stoll on November 17, 1998 at 11:26:38:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Janet on November 16, 1998 at 11:53:31:
Dear Janet,
Just be sure that you have an adequate evaluation of your "diabetic status". In YOUR situation the least I would accept is a 5 hour glucose tolerance test with a 3 day glucose load prior to the test. Your doc knows what that is since it is the way s/he was taught in medical school.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
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Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling.......
Posted by janet on November 17, 1998 at 11:29:52:
In Reply to: Re: Spacy/lightheaded feeling....... posted by Walt Stoll on November 17, 1998 at 11:26:38:
my appt. is on Thursday....likely tests will be done at the lab at some later date. I will update when there is information.