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Some experts are redefining depression as a spiritual crisis rather than a disease. But can you really deep-breathe your way out of the blues?
Does Talk Therapy Work?
They are women who know paralyzing gloom firsthand: a lawyer despairing over her workaholic existence; a librarian watching her mother die of Parkinson's; a wife grieving and angry at a husband who left her after 20 years of marriage. Put them in a room and they'd have plenty to talk about. Put them in a doctor's office, and they'd be offered antidepressants.
But these are women looking for a different way to ease their psychic pain. Some have tried antidepressants and say the drugs took the zing out of an already limp midlife libido, or made them feel distant and numb, or simply didn't work. But they also suspect deep down that their lives, and not just their brain chemistry, need an overhaul.
Typically, people turn to talk therapy as an alternative to drugs, but a growing number of women are embracing a new trend in the treatment of depression: spiritual practice. It's an approach that sidesteps analyzing problems in favor of seeking inner peace through relaxation and deep-breathing techniques. A handful of programs, like the Center for Mind-Body Medicine in Washington, D.C., offer 12-week group sessions that teach patients meditation, imagery, biofeedback, and more, and a growing number of therapists and psychiatrists are experimenting with these spiritual techniques as a new way to heal those diagnosed with clinical depression (an intense, pervasive mood disorder that attacks the mind and can affect the body).
"There's an explosion of interest among both therapists and patients," says James S. Gordon, the Harvard-trained psychiatrist who founded and directs the Center. What makes the approach attractive, he says, is that it promises not just to make people functional, but to help them feel joy again, and find peace and meaning in their lives.
"Depression is a sign that who you are as a human being on this earth is not being fulfilled in some way," says Gordon. "On one level that's a psychological problem that can be dealt with in talk therapy, but it's often a spiritual issue. 'What am I here for? What's my purpose?' Those are spiritual questions."
The Best Method to Treating Depression
How to best treat depression has been an issue since the '50s, when the first antidepressants were developed. Since then, psychiatrists have disputed whether depression is a biological disease that should be battled with drugs, or a psychological condition that needs to be addressed with talk therapy.
The spiritual approach offers a new paradigm altogether. Gordon and others with a spiritual bent acknowledge that the current understanding of depression as a chemical imbalance with biological causes has given it the stamp of a "real disease," which has helped lift its stigma (though not enough to keep every woman quoted in this story from asking that her name be changed or only her first name be used). But they say that this overly medical view of depression is deafening us to the spiritual yearning at its core. And while they believe talk therapy plays a vital role, they contend it can get in the way of true insight.
In standard counseling, a therapist helps a patient analyze her thoughts to identify patterns in her behavior ("I'm a perfectionist," "I withdraw when I'm angry") that may be triggering her despair -- and to change them. With a spiritual or mind/body approach, patients are tutored in mindfulness; the idea is to simply observe your moods without passing judgment or trying to fix "a problem."
Rebecca, 50, a librarian who has felt depressed periodically, experienced a bout after she moved her mother, who has Parkinson's, to an assisted-living facility. She found that spiritual practice helped her deal with her emotions in a more effective way than group-therapy sessions led by a psychiatrist. Talk therapy's focus on verbal, critical, and analytical ways of communicating, while helpful at first, ultimately kept spinning her in circles, she says. She would talk about her mother's illness and how overwhelmed she felt, then leave feeling more depressed than before. "It wasn't lifting me out, it was keeping me in the muck," says Rebecca.
She heard about the program at the Center for Mind-Body Medicine at an acupuncturist's office and decided to try it. After a 12-week program, which taught skills like meditation and therapeutic artwork, Rebecca's mood lifted. "I felt energized by the group," she says. And it's endured. She's gotten better, she says, not by trying to figure out why she was depressed, but by simply focusing on her depression as another phenomenon in her everyday life.
She's more accepting about her tendency to get depressed. Now, when low moods strike, she doesn't rush to make it different. Instead, she might create a sculpture or find time to meditate or do a workout at the gym. "Even if I'm stuck in some of the same ruts, some little crack of light has opened up," Rebecca says.
Leon Evans, MD, a psychiatrist in Boulder, Colorado, who uses mind/body techniques with his patients, concurs that spiritual pursuits help the brain access a different path to healing that's just as important as therapy. "When my clients talk about their problems, they can get buried under the worries of life. 'I don't like my job anymore.' 'I keep losing it with my kids.' But when they take the time to be still, breathe, or use an image to occupy their minds so that they're not thinking of their to-do lists, all kinds of ideas come up. Often a real sense of purpose emerges," he says.
A Better Cure for Midlife Angst?
The workshops at the Center for Mind-Body Medicine are typical of the new mindfulness programs. At the beginning of each two-hour session, a therapist lights a candle and leads patients in a silent meditation. Next, she takes them through exercises designed to heighten their self-awareness, including guided imagery, self-hypnosis, meditation, journal writing, drawing, and movement. There is no talk of a higher power or overt spiritual doctrine, just an invitation to look inward.
It's an approach that seems to strike a chord with many women at midlife. Society's views of middle-aged women, who are dealing with changing roles, fading beauty, and fluctuating hormones, can compound their feelings of sadness, isolation, and despair.
On a biological level, it makes good scientific sense that spiritual practice would alleviate depression, says Evans. It's been known for decades that meditation triggers the relaxation response, which in turn lowers stress hormones. And recent findings suggest that stress hormones create biochemical changes in the brain that lead to depression. In theory, if meditation or other spiritual practice lowers stress, it could cause changes in the brain that can alleviate depression.
But beyond stress-reducing benefits, the practice of mindfulness seems to open new doors for women entering the second half of their lives. Maggie, 49, an attorney in Washington, D.C., began suffering a very bad bout of the blues after a series of health problems, including recurring fevers and intestinal distress. She'd struggled with depression for much of her life, and found that talk therapy helped her identify the self-critical thought patterns that tended to trigger her episodes.
But her insights -- such as not allowing the hostile nature of the legal profession to wear her down -- weren't always so easy to put into practice. She tried Prozac but didn't get much help from it. When her sister told her about the Center for Mind-Body Medicine, she hoped it could help her escape her constant "head chatter" and growing discontent. "I needed something I wasn't getting in my life," she says.
At first, Maggie was skeptical of the program's emphasis on peacefulness and calm. She found herself resenting the time the group took away from her work. And when she couldn't carve out the recommended 45 minutes a day to meditate, "I was, like, 'I should be more disciplined. I should be more spiritual,'" she remembers. "Give me a break!" But when she complained, the therapist would gently turn it back to her. What did she notice about the feelings evoked? What did they have to tell her?
At one session, the therapist asked the group to imagine a safe, nurturing place, and Maggie envisioned a verdant meadow full of animal life. She was surprised by the vividness of the image -- and her emotional reaction. "I was filled with sadness at how I'd sacrificed myself for my job. I'd pushed what I truly love -- the natural world -- to the periphery."
Over time, the group's focus had an impact on her. Maggie knew her combative work environment left no room for vulnerability, and this probably helped fuel her depression. The imagery exercises made the yearning for compassion in her life more palpable and spurred her to change what she could. "I try to practice law differently now. I'm much more accepting of imperfections," she says. She's also reading Jane Goodall and applying the naturalist's lessons to the art of legal negotiations.
Prozac -- or Prayer?
All this talk of spirituality makes some people roll their eyes. Those who have suffered major depression, the kind that keeps them in bed for weeks at a time, scoff at the notion that they can just meditate their way back to sanity. Even though Joy, 53, from Massapequa Park, New York, has meditated every night for the past 16 years, she is cautious about viewing spirituality as the main cure for depression: "Prozac works faster than prayer," she says.
Skeptics also worry that patients and therapists keen on the spiritual approach might steer clear of proven treatments, like drugs. It's known that the more episodes of depression a person suffers, the harder each new episode is to treat. So depressed people who turn away from antidepressants in favor of such practices might be putting themselves at risk for more serious, and intractable, mental illness.
That's why some women combine drug therapy with spiritual practice. Christina, 55, of New Salem, Massachusetts, experienced a crushing bout of depression while caring for her two children, who both have developmental problems. "I remember trying to sweep the floor one day, and I just couldn't do it," she says. She credits antidepressants with restoring her ability to cope with day-to-day life, but it was her mindfulness practice (a meditation and stress-reduction class that included yoga) that has helped her feel joy again. "I'm not very spiritual, but this approach has prompted a fundamental shift in my ability to be at peace."
"Treatment is certainly not an either/or decision, but spiritual practice offers a larger way of viewing problems," says James Gordon, who acknowledges that people with clinical depression may need to be on drugs, at least during the onset. "But there are possibilities besides medication. It's not easy, but if you're willing to do some work, you may feel better than you ever have before."
Could we be witnessing a shift in how depression will be understood in the future? A recent landmark study funded by the National Institute of Mental Health found that, of 145 people with recurrent clinical depression who had stopped taking medication (but were still considered at risk for relapse), those who had suffered three or more episodes had a significantly lower risk of a relapse after they'd learned a mindfulness technique.
But mostly there is just anecdotal evidence, from women who swear that their spiritual practices have made them happier now than they were before they got depressed. They say this type of therapy puts them at peace with who they are -- often for the first time in their lives.
Certainly no one denies that conventional approaches such as antidepressants and therapy will remain mainstay treatments for depression. But mental-health experts like Gordon welcome a movement away from the disease model of depression, viewing it instead as a spiritual wake-up call. Gordon thinks that this message is especially relevant to women at midlife. "The first half of life is about making it in the world. The second half is about fulfilling oneself as a human being, taking an interior journey," he says. "As you contemplate your place in the world, if you get depressed, that's okay. Now you have to find what is needed to complete the circle."
Lifting Your Own Spirits
There's nothing mystical about using spiritual practice to deal with depression. All that's required is that you regularly engage in an activity -- such as one of the following -- that lulls your mind into quieting down. "The goal of spiritual practice is to simply become more 'present' in your everyday life; to learn not to fret about the past or get anxious about the future, which can be triggers for depression in many people," says Mark Epstein, MD, a psychiatrist in New York City and author of Going on Being: Buddhism and the Way of Change (Broadway, 2002). "Focusing on the present can help you accept yourself and your own problems, without rushing to try to change or overcome anything."
Meditate through movement: Find a place where you can walk without being distracted. Focus your attention on each foot as it contacts the ground. If your mind wanders, return to the experience of walking itself. Keep your gaze in front of you to deepen your concentration. "Sitting meditation is difficult for anyone, especially depressed people, because it's hard to be still and concentrate," says Epstein. "In fact, a lack of concentration is a symptom of depression." Any exercise or activity that doesn't have a specific goal (such as tai chi or yoga) may also be helpful. It's about letting yourself "be" instead of always "doing."
Visualize: Envision someone -- a relative, friend, or public figure -- who could act as a compassionate and wise guide in your life. What would this person have to say to you? "Once I did this 'inner-guide' exercise with a medical student who had been very depressed," says Nancy Harazduk, director of the Mind-Body Medicine Program at Georgetown University's School of Medicine in Washington, D.C. "She saw her parents, and they asked her forgiveness for being so hard on her. When it was over, she said, 'I am just so much lighter.'"
Unleash your inner artist: Get out the crayons, pencils, or paint and create art for 30 minutes. This is an immersion activity that many people find easier than meditation, and it can be just as effective. "Doing art uses a part of my mind I don't access very much," says Maggie, a Washington, D.C., attorney. "When I was really upset about my dog, who was dying, I drew this picture that showed all this agitation I was feeling, which was really a sign of the deep, caring feeling I had for my pet." Drawing the picture helped her see that her emotions were actually positive, not negative.
Create a talisman: Find an object that is comforting to the touch -- worry beads, or a rock found on a beach -- and tuck it into your purse. When you're feeling down, hold it, concentrating on the sensation of its smoothness. Using it as a meditative aid can help you stay focused on the moment. "I encourage everyone I work with to do this," says Harazduk. "I recently ran into a woman who had been clinically depressed, and she took her stone out of a pocket and said, 'I've never not had this with me. It just brings me such joy and peace.'"
In Reply to: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Sharon R. [6.1365] on November 14, 2004 at 07:53:38:
nmi
In Reply to: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Sharon R. [6.1365] on November 14, 2004 at 07:53:38:
Hi Sharon:
A spiritual cure may help depression stemming from spiritual causes or one's negative responses to stress. But how will a spiritual cure correct a physical chemical imbalance?
I can see where certain spiritual practices could give the depressed sufferer great benefits. At other times, the sufferer may simply need to remove the toxic chemicals in his food, or even replenish the missing elements in his chemical makeup.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 09:12:11:
Hi,
I agree with you completely. I was more looking at the relaxation element of what they were talking about in the article. Not downplaying anything else.
But from a strategic standpoint, creating a healthy body *home* is the foundation having the environment in which the tactical efforts i.e. toxin removal will best persevere.
A vunerable "stage" was set long before the chemical imbalances occurred.
Not unlike the leaky gut/candida relationship.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 09:12:11:
I didn't have to wait long before you demonstrated your confusion. "You" means liberals here. I remember you or your clones on this board were for viewing the world in a holistic way. But when it comes to practical issues, the chasm between words and understanding shows up. That's is SO typical of you!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 09:12:11:
Hi Philly,
It sounds like a chicken and egg thing. I saw this really interesting article about how depression can cause physical the changes in the brain, which are eradicated once the depression has lifted. It think there are a variety of causes and effects to this disease.
In Reply to: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Sharon R. [6.1365] on November 14, 2004 at 07:53:38:
Thanks for posting this article, Sharon. I have tried several of these techniques throughout my life. Usually they have been very helpful and once or twice almost life-saving.
I am very limited as far as physcial activity goes, due to cfids, but in the past regular physical activity was a life saver. I've also used drawing and meditation.
It's a very interesting adjunct therapy to consider, though who knows if it's really a cure all for everyone. I only know that at crucial times in my life these things have worked for me when I was able to do them. The problem lies only in those times when you are unable to do anything if your depression is too severe. But giving these options a try is certainly worth consideration.
Naya
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 14, 2004 at 13:43:44:
How does someone become so nasty and bitter?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 14, 2004 at 13:43:44:
Hi R:
Your tone is a bit agitated and seems to border on unjustified anger towards me. What gives?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Sharon R [18.1365] on November 14, 2004 at 09:50:35:
Hi Sharon:
Yes, creating a healthy body home would be a necessary starting base.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [87.890] on November 14, 2004 at 14:56:35:
Hi Gabriella:
You're right. The "chicken and egg thing" is a good analogy. It's just as Sharon mentioned when she referred to Leaky Gut Syndrome. LGS causes depression and vice versa. Better to approach the cure from all possible angles.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 17:12:28:
Hi Philly,
I agree with your comment, "Better to approach the cure from all possible angles". An integrated, wholistic approach seems best because it respects the bodymind connection. And in that case, I feel the spiritual aspect that Sharon is proposing is very appropriate too, as it has a calming effect on the hypothalumus.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [180.890] on November 14, 2004 at 17:37:26:
In addition to what I posted, I'd just like to add that I agree with both of you. The bodymind connection is definitely a big factor, no matter which direction you are coming from. Body first, mind first or vice versa. The old chicken and the egg story.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [87.890] on November 14, 2004 at 14:56:35:
Thanks for the link. Very interesting, but not surprising.
Naya
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Naya [120.14] on November 14, 2004 at 18:43:41:
Thanks Naya, if I've learned anything here it's the bodymind connection and the effects of stress!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Naya to Gabs [120.14] on November 14, 2004 at 18:46:02:
You're quite welcome Naya, and I agree with your assessment!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 17:02:52:
Justified, but not anger. The right word isn't coming to mind at the moment...
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Naya [120.14] on November 14, 2004 at 16:31:22:
By taking some Swedish bitters extract?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [180.890] on November 14, 2004 at 18:46:36:
Ain't that the truth, G.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 14, 2004 at 19:16:20:
Is that all it takes. Better stay away from them, then!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 14, 2004 at 19:15:19:
Hi R:
Alright then. Take your time. Think positive, OK?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 20:43:42:
Often do. Even when it seems negative to others.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1535] on November 14, 2004 at 09:12:11:
Hi PhillyLady, REALLY interesting. A truly 'spiritual' cure will almost always have a component of altruism, and some form of selfishness contributes to a lot of people's depression. I'm certain that brain chemistry can be altered by 'non-physical' means because, quite simply, there's no longer a distinction between brain and body...or spirit and brain...or spirit and body.
Interesting also that the greatest gurus laugh a lot. Dalai Lama, Bhagwan, Bishop Spong, Bede Griffiths....I BET Jesus had a great sense of humour and cracked jokes constantly - oh, all right, maybe not CONSTANTLY, maybe APPROPRIATELY. How better to counter depression than with laughter...
'Nother thing to mention here is that I've always found that food changes are secondary to emotional and interaction-with-people changes in my life. While I totally acknowledge that diet alone can help some people's depression, I can be on the holiest diet you can imagine - and still harbour negativity and experience depression. Yet there have been times when I've been on my usual chocolate etc outrageous imbalanced diets and been very happy. Usually that's when I'm laughing a lot and spending time in good company, and not being self-centred or self-pitying. Or unforgiving, inflexible - those two nasties in one's make-up are very indicative of depression...this is a massive area for discussion! Complicated! Chemical! Thanks!
Jane
In Reply to: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Sharon R. [6.1365] on November 14, 2004 at 07:53:38:
Thanks, Sharon.
Please do not forget Stanislav Grof, MD, PhD and his "Spiritual Emergence Group" at Big Sur.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 14, 2004 at 21:48:07:
Hi R:
Great! Then you'll leave all the political strife behind. Let's all move on to greener cyber pastures:-)
P.S. We can resume battle in four years(LOL)...
In Reply to: Food for thought... posted by Jane 1 [1475.4] on November 15, 2004 at 06:30:46:
Hi Jane:
We could delve deeply into this topic by examining the many layers that make up the being and then try to determine exactly where disease originates. But doesn't the human have seven layers, from the physical to the astral, to the spiritual, with others in between? So, what a task it is to determine which layer has gone awry. I mean, they're all there, right?:-)
And, according to some beliefs, isn't the purpose of Man's reason for being to manifest God's essence through Man's own physical existence? I suppose sometimes we are too quick to dismiss the importance of the physical and the emotional and to go straight to the spiritual for solutions. It's my belief that the physical and emotional are just as important and necessary as the spiritual, therefore just as important and effective for healing. I suppose the entire topic is open to debate.....physical or spiritual? Chicken or egg?
But, being the practical person that I am, I say heal from all sides, but most importantly, nurture from all sides.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 09:31:23:
Hi Jane:
Yes, I bet Jesus and other mystics had a great sense of humor too. There is an article that mentions humor as the path (or one path) to spirituality. I'll have to dig it up and show you:-)
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 08:45:08:
We can resume battle in four years
Changing other people's minds can be a long process, so can't wait for 4 years.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 15, 2004 at 11:30:09:
R:
Sorry, Babe, I know your urge is strong, but I've put away the dueling pistols.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 12:18:46:
damm, haven't seen a good duel in years...)
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Vince f [173.9] on November 15, 2004 at 12:39:49:
Now just imagine if they each inserted and snorted cayenne and coffee, and danced while they danced!
Sorry Philly I'm just playing, I mean you no harm, you know that, and Vince I'm pretty sure you won't even answer this, I'm just having a little fun anyway.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [180.890] on November 15, 2004 at 12:44:59:
Hi Gabriella:
That's alright. I bet you two are painting some pretty colorful and intense images in your minds right now....A man, a woman, both standing in front of the OK Corral, dueling pistols in hand, cayenne and a coffee pot on a stand nearby...Oh, this could get ugly!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 12:57:02:
Oh thanks Philly, that's so cute, you really made me laugh!!!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 12:18:46:
Good! I didn't want a duel. You just absorb what I have to say. You know you want to! Resistance creates pain and suffering.
In Reply to: Food for thought... posted by Jane 1 [1475.4] on November 15, 2004 at 06:30:46:
That's what I was talking about. I have been monitoring news bites from EFT people (www.emofree.com), and they describe all sorts of health problems either greatly relieved or eliminated: from emotional to organic -- without modifying the diet.
I have also had an opportunity to talk to people who have completed at least one training course that teaches a system of Norbekov, a man from one of former Soviet Asian republics. Oh, man! What spectacular results do people get from it! Vision improves significantly, scar tissues dissolve, varicose veins disappear, migraines, psoriasis, snoring, back pains, etc. go away. And many of these changes occur within 10 days of 4 hour training sessions! Some -- within 3! A major part of Norbekov's system is energy work -- imagining and producing sensations of heat, cold, etc. in different areas of the body. Also, feeling of well being... The system also includes removal of toxins but... using one's mind -- no dietary changes.
I will take a course myself soon.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by R. [27.1490] on November 15, 2004 at 23:21:39:
R., I looked on his website and didn't see his schedule, but then I'm not feeling well, so maybe I missed it. Was going to call the toll free number, how did you find his schedule?
Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by gabriella [180.890] on November 15, 2004 at 12:44:59:
Don't be So sure about me Not answering.)) I put cayenne in tea, when I have some congestion. It doesn't give me the Yips. Funny, I had a waitress who eats hot peppers geting me some, every time I went in, and one time she inhaled some cayenne when she was geting it out of what they keep it in, and said she NEVER sneezed so hard or so Much!! I had the same thing happen, when shaking my container, to break up lumps, and opened the bottle soon after and inhaled some. YEOWL!!!! Nose drops are Mild in comparison.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 12:57:02:
When they Used to duel, they Also snorted Snuff. I'll bet that the one who snorted Cayenne, Never got hit. Harder to hit a Moving target.))) Harder to hit someone, with your eyes tearing. Maybe that stoped the duels... That or the invention of Hand Grenades.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 15, 2004 at 23:06:15:
Hi R:
Nah, it's not absorption, it's deflection - painless for both:-)
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by gabriella [87.890] on November 16, 2004 at 01:09:18:
Who are you talking about?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 16, 2004 at 08:30:25:
Avoiding knowledge = remaining in the dark
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by Vince F [173.9] on November 16, 2004 at 06:13:21:
In your honor I just went and got some cayenne from the cabinet and am sniffing it now. It does seem to clear my breathing some, thanks for reminding me. I'll put some in soup for lunch and see what happens. I'll also try a salt water rinse that Philly suggested. Last night I rubbed on Vic's Vapor Rub and that seemed to calm things down a bit, I really like that stuff.
Guess I'll be carrying the bottle of cayenne around with me today!
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [2970.4] on November 16, 2004 at 12:28:51:
R:
Then, let there be light. Come closer. I'll teach, you'll learn!
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by R. [2970.4] on November 16, 2004 at 12:27:41:
~
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought...PS to Jane posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 11:19:32:
Norman Cousins I believe it is
he laughed his way to health..
see.. Anatomy of an Illness
here is a link .. regarding
Cousins..
http://www.dailycelebrations.com/072799.htm
Sedona
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 16, 2004 at 13:24:58:
I am afraid you can only "emit" darkness.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by gabriella [87.890] on November 16, 2004 at 13:32:38:
how did you find his schedule?
I woman in Houston is organizing this. For the second time. I was an observer the first time. And most of the results I had mentioned were experienced by my friends and relatives and reported by them (as opposed people in a commercial). The rest of the people reported improved vision, elimination of depression, much higher level of energy, disappearance of chronic headaches, reduced waist (from doing special mental exercises, if I am not mistaken) and something else that I don't recall right now. I was present at their last lesson and heard their reports myself.
The system currently has 3 or 4 levels. Higher levels are designed to complete the process of improving health, develop intuition, ability to achieve goals, wealth, etc.
I'll see what I will gain from the course.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by R. [27.1490] on November 16, 2004 at 21:29:00:
Thanks for letting me know this R. Please keep me posted on your experience with him, either directly or indirectly as I'm really curious about it.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by gabriella [87.890] on November 16, 2004 at 23:59:11:
Ok, will do. I am already registered for Nov. 27.
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought... posted by R. [27.1490] on November 17, 2004 at 00:17:04:
Oh good, then I don't have to wait too long to get some feedback. Good luck with it!!!
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought...PS to Jane posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 11:19:32:
Yes please!!!
Jane
In Reply to: Re: Food for thought...PS to Jane posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 15, 2004 at 11:19:32:
Jesus as a standup comic, doesn't seem likely. I have seen many televangilists, one telling jokes would be interesting. Pat Robertson smiles when he talks about horrific things. I just think he is nuts or a masochist. Maybe he is showing off the teeth that he bought.
One of the Health speakers on the evening news drives me crazy. I think it is Sherry Banks, a heavyset woman. She smiles at the wrong times. I keep thinking that something isn't wired right.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 16, 2004 at 21:15:43:
R:
Then come once you are no longer afraid. Your path is a personal one. I won't interfere in your following it:-)
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 17, 2004 at 08:38:28:
When I said I was afraid, I was just being polite. That should've been "I am sure".
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [27.1490] on November 17, 2004 at 09:06:33:
R:
Why are you sure I would "emit darkness"?
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by PhillyLady [1906.1536] on November 17, 2004 at 09:32:31:
Why do you think you can teach me something? Some legal things maybe...
I am going for a 3 day seminar early tomorrow and probably won't be able to reply before I return. In case you are curious about the topic of the seminar, it is "developing" a mind of a millionaire. :) Will learn putting theory to practice.
In Reply to: Re: Article - Is There a Spiritual Cure for Depression? posted by R. [2970.4] on November 17, 2004 at 15:45:19:
Hi R:
Whether one is deemed superior or inferior in the eyes of his beholder, one always has something worthy of offering his fellowmen. And when a sincere offer to share knowledge/experiences is extended, acceptance or rejection from the intended recipient is to be expected:-)
May you find enlightenment and reap valuable knowledge at the seminar...perhaps to share(?).
P.S. Maybe the "emit darkness" question can be answered upon your return.
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