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hello, i'm trying to gather as much information as i can about cleansing and fasting.
one cleanse i'm considering because many friends have recommended it, is the Arise & Shine "Cleanse and Purify Thyself" 5-week program. many people have gotten excellent results from this and are literally glowing. you get rid of lots of stuff, including a large amount of "mucoidal plaque".
one big concern i have is this: i am interested in my system becoming stronger. sometimes i worry that people who are really really into the cleansing thing might not necessarily be that strong but rather they might just keep their insides really "clean". i'm unclear as to the relationsihp between "stronger" and "cleaner" insides.
i worry, for example, that after doing such a cleanse my body might become *more* sensitive/intolerant to certain foods when ideally my body should be able to *improve* its digestion overall.
[one example in my thoughts of a difference between strong and clean would be that you can't digest a certain type of food so you have a reaction to it in your body. a strong person would be able to digest it better so as to overcome the reaction altogether, whereas a cleaner person might just avoid all the "wrong" foods, but that might not mean their body would be stronger in dealing with them.]
my diet is already pretty healthy and i intend to keep it that way, but there's something to be said for being able to cope in any situation (for example, not getting sick because you are traveling and don't have access to the perfect diet). i worry about becoming overly dependent on "the perfect diet".
can anyone comment on this? i'm excited to get started on intestinal cleansing but i need to not take it too far. i think cleansing can become an addiction.
thanks,
dani
In Reply to: cleansing/fasting ... become stronger or just "cleaner"? posted by dani on October 10, 2001 at 17:07:01:
Dani-
Can you explain what the Arise and Shine cleansing program is in a nutshell...what types of things can it help with?
Are you allowed to exercise on the cleansing program?
Sincerely,
sara
In Reply to: cleansing/fasting ... become stronger or just "cleaner"? posted by dani on October 10, 2001 at 17:07:01:
Hi, dani.
Hope Helping You sees this.
Walt
In Reply to: cleansing/fasting ... become stronger or just "cleaner"? posted by dani on October 10, 2001 at 17:07:01:
You bring up some very interesting points. I am quite familiar with many of the fasting programs including Arise and Shine, 7 day miracle cleanse, Dr. Shultzes intestinal cleansing program, and others.
The theory surrounding muchoid plaque is sketchy at best. I have friends that are gastroenterologists. None of them have ever found evidence of "muchoid plaque". If routine colonoscopies found this tar-like substance, especially in the amounts suggested by these cleanses, there would be no debate and evidence would be irrifutable. I have seen video of many colonoscopies and all I have ever seen is clean, pink tissue. I have a theory regarding muchoid plaque.
I theorize that muchoid plaque is actually nothing more than entangled pysllium and bentonite. The same material sayed to purge this plaque. From the moment you begin taking these 2 products, you will notice your stool immediately becoming more "roped". The less food you eat and the more product you take, the more "roping" you get. So, I would try to get away from the idea of this rop-like substance being a factor. If it is indeed real, it probably happens to people that have been SEVERELY constipated for a very long time. I'm talking like 1 bowel movement every 6 months or something. Having said that, let me tell you what I DO believe is real.
SLUGGISH BOWELS!!! bowels that do not maintain the proper peristalisis allow food to sit in the colon too long. The remains then begin to putrefy creating noxious gases and by-products such as ammonia. Anybody with foul-smelling stools is putrefying their food, especially proteins. If you are having 1 large bowel movement per day (10-12 inches) or 2-3 smaller bowel movements (3-4 inches) that floats with absence of extreme odor, burning, itching or incomplete evactuation, you can be sure that your bowels are healthy. If not, some changes may help you greatly. I don't think it is necessary to go on extreme cleanses such as arise and shine. Increasing fiber, possibly getting extra fiber from supplements, increasing water, eating a mostly-pure diet, and going on a parasite/fungal removal program a few times a year usually does the trick. Short fasts, from 1-3 days (drinking only water, herbal teas, and a protein-replacement powder like Ultra Clear if hypoglycemic or underweight) can provide GREAT detoxofication results.
But, your main question is in regards to being stonger or just cleaner. This depends. Many people attempt to go on detox regimens and actually become weaker in the process because they return to a diet that does not provide all the nutrients needed for ideal health. An occasional fast or detox regimen, followed-up by a diet high in essential nutrients and variety, is your best bet against getting cleaner AND stronger. A slightly different concept, DAILY detoxification, may be even more important. you can maintain your "cleanliness" by supporting detoxification on a daly basis. Cruciferous vegetables, foods high in enzymes like raw fruits, vegetables, cold-pressed oils, raw dairy products, fermented foods, and high-quality proteins from grass-fed animals will ensure you that you are detoxing on a daily basis and not "building up toxins".
Here's a question for you. Two woman go into a restaurant and order the same meal. The meal is deep-fryed, contains MSG and other toxins, and is slightly charred. The first woman eats it and has no reactions. The 2nd woman eats it and throws up in 5 minutes. Who is stonger?................
If you said the woman that felt fine, you would be wrong. The woman who threw up was strong enough that her body recognized the poison. her body got rid of it immediately. So, you see, a bad reaction to a common food or substance can be a sign of a strong body. The weak person does not exhibit such a strong response.
I know it can be difficult to maintain a healthy diet, espcecially when traveling. The key is not to be perfect. Our immune systems get stronger by being exposed to foreign invaders. The idea is not to OVERBURDEN it. So, if your diet is healthy 85-90% of the time, you can get away with 10% of "restaurant food" or that occasional bowel of icecream. Keep that in mind whenever embarking on a "health-improving diet or regimen". We are not meant to be in a plastic bubble. True, our lives are ivaded with chemicals and germs that we have never been exposed to before. the key to survival is building up and maintaining the immune system with proper diet, supplementation, stress reduction, and exercise. i hope this helps you in your health-improving quests
-Helping You
In Reply to: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by Helping you on October 11, 2001 at 18:37:20:
HY,
What a great post! Thank you so much.
Namaste`
Joanie
In Reply to: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by Helping you on October 11, 2001 at 18:37:20:
tee hee
In Reply to: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by Helping you on October 11, 2001 at 18:37:20:
thanks, Helping You, for that response. i really appreciate it. i have a few more questions if you're up for it:
* have you tried many of these intestinal cleanses or by "familiar" do you just mean that you've learned about them? can you recommend one that you think is better than arise & shine? also any recommendations for a parasite/fungus cleanse?
* what you say re colonoscopies is interesting. but if this is true and mucoid plaque doesn't really exist, why is it claimed that the more cleanses you do, the amount of plaque you expel decreases until finally none at all comes out?
* one thing i've heard in favor of longer gradual cleanses like arise & shine as opposed to shorter water fasts is that for toxic folks, a straight water fast can release too many toxins too quickly for the liver to deal with (and not enough fiber to move stuff through & out). any comment?
* even if the theory of mucoidal plaque is debatable, couldn't doing this sort of cleanse still be very beneficial in getting toxins out? (and it gets out parasites as well) .. many people who have done the arise & shine cleanse rave about the results they have gotten. do you think it could be at all harmful?
* related to your two women in a restaurant example, i'll give a real-life example. a friend and i eat a relatively healthy bag of natural organic chips with a small amount of oil (or, replace chips with anything a tiny tiny bit greasy). within minutes i can feel my skin breaking out and my joints & muscles aching. my friend remains fine. i really don't think my body is "stronger" for reacting this way.
i have very poor digestion and assimilation of nutrients, and food allergies (i'm just now starting to correlate joint & muscle pain with eating certain foods.. i used to think the pain was all in my head!) and constant breaking out. i'm very big on the exercise, proper diet and relaxation front.. so i'm coming to conclude that a lot of remaining health problems are due to the need for cleansing/detoxification to rid of toxins and improve digestion and elimination. so i'm really trying to understand how all this stuff works!!
thanks tons for your time,
dani
In Reply to: Re: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by dani on October 13, 2001 at 02:31:09:
In Reply to: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by Helping you on October 11, 2001 at 18:37:20:
Thanks, Helping You.
This deserves to be archived. Where do YOU suggest it be archived?
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by Walt Stoll on October 13, 2001 at 07:08:21:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Stonger vs. cleaner...... posted by dani on October 13, 2001 at 02:31:09:
1) I have tried MANY of them. I tend to favor the Ultra Clear Program. It doesn't cause one to interupt their lives by performing an intense cleanse. Ultra Clear can be performed with your daily routine. A more intense cleanse can be achieved by consuming only Ultra Clear and vegetbales juices for 5-7 days although it is not necessary. Arise and Shine is still very good but I find it to be weakening rather than strengthening. Most people cannot start out on the master phase. Most people can only handle the mild phase. I have seen people take 2-3 months to work up to this "intense" phase of only product and NO food. This, in my opinion, is too long to go without good sources of protein and other essential nutrients. This is why I say it is more weakening. Ultra Clear, by contrast, contains nutrients essential for detoxification but also includes nutrients to supply energy for your body. these nutrients support the biochemical pathways of metabolic deticxification. I honestly cannot say that about Arise and shine. If you wish, you could add an extra fiber product to pull putrefaction out of the intestinal tract. In my opinion, this is most benefical of the cleanses.
2)This I have to disagree with. Bentonite/Pysllium cannot be absorbed into the body. They are "pulling/binding and scrubbing" agents only. If eventuallly, nothing comes out at all, where is all of the pysllium/bentonite going? My feelings are, in the begining, you will certainly get more "debri" because the colon naturally holds stool. As this matter is cleared from the colon, all that will continue to come out is the pyllium/bentonite. This explains perfectly why there is "less and less" as the cleanse goes. The only "plaque", if you want to call it that, ever found attached to the colon, is found in the pockets of diverticulitis. Even this will respond to a high-fiber diet.
3) I agree. This is why I recommend a 3-day juice fast including Ultra Clear if needed. Most people can get through 1 or 2 days on just water and this poses no threat to the body.
4) cleansing is still very beneifical. Everyone reacts differently to each cleanse. I think Arise and Shine is too harsh and is mostly un-necessary as long as you eat healthy food, pure water, and perform a metabolic detox 3 times a year for 5-7 days each (Ultra Clear Program?). They even give blanket recommendations for returning to a "normal diet" following the cleanse. They advocate a high-plant diet with low protein foods of all kinds. They call this the 80% alkaline and 20% acid theory. The problem is, this goes against what MOST healthy traditional cultures in the world thrive on. They attribute this muchoid plaque to animal foods, white flour, and other acid-forming foods. white flour I could agree with, but animal foods are VITAL for maintaining health in most people. Have you seen the pictures of the people that run these programs? They are skinny, pale people with big smiles on their faces. go figure? :-)
5) Again, I disagree. Once the body stops reacting with vigor, one stays in a state of constant ill health without every realizing the culprit. You had an IMMEDIATE reaction. Your body did not like what you ate.
In Reply to: Clarrifications posted by Helping You on October 13, 2001 at 19:07:26:
Thanks, Helping You.
Namaste`
Walt
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