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Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?

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Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

Walt:

You have mentioned several times lately your ongoing diabetes. In your book and elsewhere you have told of a great number of chronic medical things that you simply no longer have problems with as a result of your path towards wellness. Hurray!

I wondered if you have any idea why you still have the diabetes. It seems that it (Type II, I presume) should respond favorably to wellness and especially to the whole foods diet, and to an appropriate metabolic diet, which I assume you have adopted.

Is this the exception that proves the rule?

Any by the way, what DOES that expression "the exception that proves the rule" mean anyway. I might add it to the Glossary if I truly understood it. :-)

RHJ++



Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes?

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 08:02:04:

In Reply to: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

Walt:

An idea I had after I asked my question: Is it the injected insulin that keeps type II diabetics diabetic? My wife has tried to get off of insulin, with diet and other medications, without success.

The injected insulin "seems" to be necessary for her, but at the same time it seems to cause major cravings and to simply push fat onto her body. Seems to me that if somehow she could not only eat right (which happens only infrequently-but when she was eating with me on the E-diet, she felt noticeably better!) but also STOP the insulin, that she could "get over" her diabetes.

RHJ++



Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes?

Posted by Kay on January 19, 2000 at 22:17:56:

In Reply to: Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 08:02:04:

I had Type II (adult onset) diabetes, and achieved complete remission.

One thing that seems clear is that, although it may be necessary at times (hopefully only as a stop-gap), adding aditional insulin worsens the insulin resistance cycle, a major part of most (if not all) Type II diabetes.

I am new to this board, so this may be a silly question, but are the people trying to get off insulin already taking: CoQ10 (considerably more than usual maintenance amounts), Vit. E (natural sources, 1000 - 1200 IU), GTF Chromium (1000 - 1200 mcg), and Milk Thystle (the high-end of the recommended range of amounts)? If not, they might want to do some research of the recent literature, and direct their Naturopath's attention to it. In my experience, these can have a tremendous impact on the insulin system. In my case, Omega-3 oils and ginger supplements have also been helpful, as has genseng.

Another major factor for me, was that I ignored the ADA recommendations (which seem designed to moderate, rather than eliminate, the problem) and totally eliminated all isolated simple carbohydrates from my diet, with the exception of maltose, in the forms of barley malt and rice syrup. I ate nothing with added sugars or starches, and nothing with flour that was not whole-grain flour. I ate fruit (except grapes and oranges) but not dried fruit, and I did not drink fruit juices, or eat anything sweetened with grape juice. (For some reason, the 'peach, pear, pinapple concentrate' used to sweeten some foods never seemed to be a problem for me.) I ate primarily vegetables (though almost no potatoes) and whole grains, fruits, and some organically raised chicken/egg/meat products, soy and yogurt/cottage cheese. (If this is a vegetarian board, I apologise. Both animal and milk products have beneficial effects in my metabolism. Recent research backs up the value of concentrated protein for diabetics.) I had to deliberately add beneficial oils, since this is a naturally very low-fat diet. My treats were mostly fruits, especially berries, mixed with milk products (yogurt, cottage cheese, etc), and baked goods sweetened with rice syrup. It was not an easy diet to maintain in this culture, but it did the job in a couple of years. Now I maintain with a much more relaxed diet, that includes occasional sugar, etc, and my blood sugar remains stable.

One other point: I fully agree with those who say that it is simply not possible to correct Type II diabetes without daily, moderately vigorous (such as brisk walking) exercise. In my experience, the impact of exercise on insulin resistance can be the deciding factor in returning the blood sugar system to normal.

I hope my experiences may be of help to someone out there. Take care of yourselves, and may you find healing on all levels.

Kay



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 20, 2000 at 11:11:39:

In Reply to: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

Thanks for asking, Jim.

My father had diabetes, my mother had diabetes, I have 2 sisters with diabetes, one of my sons has diabetes---all of these type II. My father and mother got theirs in thier 70s; my sisters and I in our early 40s (mine right at about the time I started learning aobut wellness---perhaps if I had known, what I know now, I could have prevented it. However, there is a VERY LARGE DIFFERENCE between preventing something so genetic and reversing it after the system is "broken".)

If one is born with only one arm none of us think that that person can overcome that, and grow a new arm, with "wellness". There IS a limit to what wellness will do.

HOWEVER, having said that, with the kind of insulin resistant and severe case I have, one would expect severe secondary complications to have begun to show up after about 10 years. About 10 years ago, I started showing the first signs. By doubling my dose of antioxidents and starting higher doses of essential oils, I have seen no progression of the retinopathy, nephropathy & peripheral neuropathy since then.

"The exception that proves the rule." I am not POSITIVE that I understand this either. However, I have heard it all my life and think I have an inkling: Everything is much more complex than we know and so no rule is 100% applicable.

Anyone who can explain it to us better is MOST welcome to do so.

Hope this is responding to your questions.

Namaste`

Walt



Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes? ARCHIVE under diabetes.

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 20, 2000 at 11:25:52:

In Reply to: Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 08:02:04:

Great Question, RocketHealer Jim!

There is some recent research that gives an inkling that this may be so. It certainly has been MY experience with the insulin.

However, I discovered a real NUGGET a few months ago--that I had suspected for a year or so but really didn't want to think about. When I totally eliminate dairy and wheat from my diet, my insulin requirements drop to about 20-25 units a day---and stay there, so long as I have none of that "good" stuff. As soon as I secumb to temptation, my requirements go right back up to the 150 units.

Any insulin resistant person might try this with the help of Robert McFerran. However, they would have to have a blood monitoring device at home and work with their prescribing physician to be sure that their blood sugar did not get too LOW. LOW blood sugar can kill you , cause a stroke or coronary, immediately, and HIGH blood sugar takes at least months to damage a person (Type II only)

Walt



Dr. Stoll-

Posted by
Lisa M. on January 20, 2000 at 16:26:31:

In Reply to: Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes? ARCHIVE under diabetes. posted by Walt Stoll on January 20, 2000 at 11:25:52:

Dr. Stoll,
I have the impression from some of your posts here during the last several months that you do not eat meat. After reading Kay's post I am wondering what your thoughts are on the role of animal protein in regulating diabetes - do you think there is one?
Lisa M.



Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes?

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 20, 2000 at 18:52:33:

In Reply to: Re: Is it the Insulin? - Does injected Insulin Cause diabetes? posted by Kay on January 19, 2000 at 22:17:56:

Thanks, Kay!

I have done every single thing you have listed here EXCEPT combining Milk Thistle and CoQ10. Thanks to you, I will be adding that this weekend.

Bless you!

Walt



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?

Posted by hopeful on January 20, 2000 at 22:17:02:

In Reply to: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

Hi,
I have a constant flicker/strobing sensation in my eyes. This problem gets more pronounced in low light and in fluoroscent light.
Can anyone help.



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?

Posted by Wally on January 21, 2000 at 04:35:34:

In Reply to: Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by Walt Stoll on January 20, 2000 at 11:11:39:

Hi Dr. Stoll,
I have been a Type 1 diabetic for twenty-five years, so is my sister. Recently, I have read that there is a link between celiac disease(which I also have, it runs in the same side of the family)and diabetes. My sister has had diabetes since she was two years old. This was about the time that she started to eat adult foods, according to my mother. Gastrointestinal problems also run in this side of the family. Do you see such a link in your family? Out of curiosity, were you breast fed as a baby? My sister and I were not.

Thank You,
Wally



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? ARCHIVE in diabetes.

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 22, 2000 at 10:06:26:

In Reply to: Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by Wally on January 21, 2000 at 04:35:34:

Congratulations, Wally.

Most people do not put out the effort to learn about their condition as you obviously do.

It begins to look like most chronic endocrinological problems start with LGS. Certainly diabetes is the most common one. It has been known for more than 5 years that cows' milk is one of the direct causes of Type I Diabetes. The only way that can happen is via LGS. I have seen no research indication that Type II is related to the caseine.

If you want to get to the basic research about this, call (800) 843-9660 and ask them if there is any way their organization can send you a listing of the articles they have publicized over the past 2 years about the relationship between glandular problems and LGS. This is not the service that they normally provide but it doesn't hurt to ask. Be sure to ask them what it would cost to do that.

You might also give their website a try at healthcomm.com

This is the premier service (for the past 20 years) for reviewing all the world articles in the professional literture about advanced concepts of causes of chronic conditions presently considered incurable by conventionally conscribed physicians.

I was breast fed but was born and raised on a large dairy farm. We used our product a LOT. It has been known for more than 60 years that the mother's diet goes right through into the breast milk; something it should not take a rocket scientist to figure out. If the child and the mother both have LGS (not uncommon in this day and age) it would make no difference if the child was breast fed or not (for this mechanism to contribute to Type I Diabetes).

Walt



Re: Dr. Stoll- -Meat and diabetes?

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 22, 2000 at 11:24:46:

In Reply to: Dr. Stoll- posted by Lisa M. on January 20, 2000 at 16:26:31:

Hi, Lisa.

As a matter of fact, I rarely eat meat. I did not start out that way when I started practicing wellness. However, I have found it a very common phenomenon for many people to lose their desire for meat when getting healthier.

I have seen any research about a relationship between meat and diabetes but I would not be surprised since any of the many hormones in commercially provided meat would HAVE to have a deleterious effect on the glandular system.

Walt



Re: Walt has diabetes, so he is most likely an Extreme Agriculturalist- No Wonder he eats little meat!

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 22, 2000 at 14:11:42:

In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll- -Meat and diabetes? posted by Walt Stoll on January 22, 2000 at 11:24:46:

I'm not a bit surprised by Walt's reply.

And vegetarians of the world, please don't take his personal habit as a mandate for the whole world to eat very little or no meat!

Walt has diabetes, so he is most likely an Extreme Agriculturalist, so Of Course he eats little meat! He gets his necessary protein from the other sources in his diet. And he needs little meat for purines, to which he would be somewhat sensitive (negatively as an extreme agriculturalist).

Now Extreme Hunter-Gathers, on the other hand, are quite a different story.

RHJ++



The exception TESTS the rule

Posted by
Aaron Wieland on January 22, 2000 at 18:14:27:

In Reply to: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

To understand the saying, "the exception proves the rule", you must know that "prove" used to mean "test". The exception tests the rule; if there's an exception, it isn't a rule. Ironically, most people nowadays think the saying means that the existence of an exception somehow validates the rule; this interpretation doesn't follow from any system of logic *I* know of. ;-)

-- Aaron



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? ARCHIVE in diabetes.

Posted by Cathy on January 22, 2000 at 20:37:45:

In Reply to: Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? ARCHIVE in diabetes. posted by Walt Stoll on January 22, 2000 at 10:06:26:

What is LGS?



Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? ARCHIVE in diabetes.

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 23, 2000 at 08:51:12:

In Reply to: Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? ARCHIVE in diabetes. posted by Cathy on January 22, 2000 at 20:37:45:

Hi, Cathy.

Always see ther glossaary for any unfamiliar terms. THEN, if you want to see the (lgs) subject in depth, first go to the homepage, search engine and archives---in that order.

THEN, if you still have questions, write again.

Walt



Re: The exception TESTS the rule

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 23, 2000 at 10:32:23:

In Reply to: The exception TESTS the rule posted by Aaron Wieland on January 22, 2000 at 18:14:27:

THANKS, Aaron!

I learned something today (thanks to you) and THIS makes a lot more sense to me. To think I have gone 63 years and never understood this like I do today.

Namaste`

Walt



ATTN: RocketHealer Jim (Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?)

Posted by vickir on April 05, 2000 at 11:49:01:

In Reply to: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on January 19, 2000 at 05:19:45:

RHJ:
Ref your 19 Jan msg to Walt in which you said, "You have mentioned several times lately your ongoing diabetes." Can you guide me to those comments of Walt's? I remember seeing at least some of them (but now can't find them), and I would like to pass them on to someone who is experiencing some horrific effects of diabetes. I recommended she visit this site, which she did, but I think she was overwhelmed by the volume of the message traffic (as I am lately). I would like to help her zero in on what Walt has said here about managing his diabetes. What conventional medicine is doing for/to her makes my blood run cold. Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Vicki R.



Re: The only one that comes to my mind

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on April 05, 2000 at 14:50:22:

In Reply to: ATTN: RocketHealer Jim (Re: Walt: Any idea why your diabetes has persisted, despite your years of wellness?) posted by vickir on April 05, 2000 at 11:49:01:

Vicki:

Not sure exactly what you are missing. The post (linked below) was the content what got me thinking/talking about it. This post is immediately below the thread that you posted in, so I'm pretty sure this is NOT specifically what you were looking for.

Further down in the list http://askwaltstollmd.com/wwwboard/messages/26887.html he said basically the same thing (same basic content, which I probably thought about in my subconscious for some time). So this is where (the first point in time and space!) I learned that he had and still has diabetes, and how strongly his insulin requirement was related to his including dairy and wheat in his diet.

Could you be more specific in what you are looking for. Then perhaps I can help. Or perhaps by then Walt will have come back and perhaps can clarify your interest.

Hope this helps, but not holding my breath! :-)
RHJ++



Re: The only one that comes to my mind

Posted by vickir on April 06, 2000 at 12:50:40:

In Reply to: Re: The only one that comes to my mind posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on April 05, 2000 at 14:50:22:

Thanks, Jim. I had missed the second post you referenced, although it, too, is not the one I am recalling. I thought I remembered reading somewhere where Walt had gone into relatively a lot of detail about his history with diabetes. Maybe I've got the two posts you mentioned confused with something he wrote about the condition of his health when he first started practicing wellness. (I really must start taking my ginkgo regularly--if only I could remember to do it!) I just thought it would be more meaningful to the diabetic lady to read about Walt's own experiences and might encourage her to write to him.



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