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Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe?

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Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe?

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 30, 2005 at 13:39:13:

trying to find out how much type 1 diabetes exists in the US.
Joslin says 800,000
webMD says approximately 1 million
jdrf says more than 1.3 million
to further complicate things, IDDM DIAGNOSED in people who are over 18 at the time of diagnosis has been renamed LADA.
As far as I know, IDDM and LADA are both considered type 1.
NIH says 210,000 people under 20 have diabetes in US. They don't distinguish type. They say .26% of people under 20 have diabetes, any type, in the US.
Diabetes.org says 8-45% of kids with newly diagnosed diabetes have type 2- that's a heck of a range- do we have a really good test to distinguish type 1 and type 2 in kids, or are we calling white kids type 1 and kids of color type2? Seven and a half years ago, I read that kids as young as 12 were getting type 2. A couple of years later, it had been moved down to age 9. Today, I read on diabetes.org that there are cases of type 2 DOCUMENTED in kids as young as age 4 (yes, FOUR).
And, of course, before doctors became aware of type 2 in little kids, I wonder if some of our stats are kids misdiagnosed with type 1 who actually have type 2.
The CDC doesn't seem to track non-infectious diseases in living people.
According to the .26 of the population under 20 has diabetes, my small town should have half a person between 0 and 20 years of age with any kind of diabetes. Our town has 4 kids between 13-15 with type 1 .I don't even know if we have any kids between 0-12 and 16-19 with any kind of diabetes, but, assuming these 4 are all our diabetes in kids, we seem to have 8 times the national expected value.
Am I right in assuming there are going to be kids in the 0-12 age group here getting diabetes? Is there a point to trying to identify who is at risk? Can their outcome be improved if they are diagnosed earlier?
I've spent the last couple of days looking for statistics on this and it's really frustrating. I expected to find a map or figures by geographic region of the US, so I could see if our part of the country has a particular problem. I can't find the data.
Two kids here were diagnosed in 1997-98 at age 7-8. Two kids were diagnosed last year at age 12. Each of the two pairs had no contact and wouldn't have the same source, if viral. one of each pair are brothers and could have the same source. The other two kids are unrelated.
We have teensy clusters due to our small size population and I think it matters, but I'm not sure where to go with that idea.





Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe?

Posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 30, 2005 at 17:01:55:

In Reply to: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 30, 2005 at 13:39:13:

Hi Ann,

Sometimes I wonder if such stats are accumulated from a survey or from medical records.
Most people who die show up as a victim of a heart attack an not as a victim of diabetes. Of course, some people who never go to a doctor often die without a diagnosis.

Remember figures lie and liars figure.

Small towns without representation in the big city surveys might have a completly different risk factor.

The only way to be sure is to collect such stats during a census, but that might still miss the illegal immigrants that now make up 5 to 10 % of the population.

Ron



Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe?

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 30, 2005 at 17:45:07:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? posted by Ron [3195.1989] on May 30, 2005 at 17:01:55:

I've felt the census should cover children's health issues so they've got a better count for military service. Lots of kids are the equivalent of 4F, due to stuff like juvenile diabetes or asthma, and the census should emunerate that so they know how many 'healthy' 18 year olds will be available.

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Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 31, 2005 at 07:24:01:

In Reply to: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 30, 2005 at 13:39:13:

Ann,

In my opinion, the current state of diabetic statistics is a total mess and this can be laid directly at the feet of the ADA aho has made a career of trying to hide the epidemic nature, and it's causes, of diabetes in our culture--at least for the past 40 years.

Now they are reaping the whirlwind. So long as they are given the job of clarifying the problem, it is like giving the fox the job of guarding the chicken coop!

Walt



Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:26:12:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on May 31, 2005 at 07:24:01:

so, is there any source of statistics you trust?
JDF?CDC?NIH?Joslin? anyone?
Is there a definitive test to distinguish type 1 from type 2? Given the ages people can get type 2 now, if one of your grandchildren was diagnosed with diabetes, what test(s) should the parents insist on?



Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 01, 2005 at 07:33:21:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:26:12:

Thanks, Ann.

There are many books out there, written by national experts in the field, that report outside the lobbying box. It takes personal research to find them but they begin to make sense once sufficient information is absorbed.

So long as the ADA (for example) is influenced by lobbyists, listening to them is just going to perpetuate false & self-seeking information.

Walt



Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on June 01, 2005 at 07:54:32:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 01, 2005 at 07:33:21:

Dearest Dr Stoll- I've been researching diabetes for almost 8 years. It's a slow process. I find 2/3 of one page that is helpful in a Joslin book, for example. I've read Whittaker, Bernstein, Kushi, even gone on to read the Protein people- Eadees, Atkins, and various other people who address carb issues. I've also read a ot of ADA and Mayo Clinic books, worth it worth the single line that virtually every case of amputation in persons with diabetes is due to smoking YES!-I appreciate that one less thing to worry about.
I'm an intelligent mathematician who didn't even take biology in high school. First year dealing with my kid's type 1 , I read Joslins 1400 page diabetes textbook. Was surprised at the format- little articles as opposed to a cohesive work like my own college texts were. The message I took away from the Joslin textbook is that patients are liars who don't follow our orders and we will ignore their results and assume our methods are right despite the fact that this is in no WAY the scientific method-am I hopelessly jaded and cynical or am I getting it?
You've got medical training and a personal interest in diabetes, surely you can name a few names of authors worth reading in this field-what are the chances I'm going to come across them otherwise? Who has real statistics worth paying attention to?
When the NIH (National Institute of Health?) says there are 210,000 people under 20 with diabetes in this country-are they likely to be in the ballpark?
Is ANYONE tracking epidemics of non-contagious diseases in living persons?
I've found a fifth child with type 1 in my teensy town- we have 10 times the expected national average 9if I believe NIH stats) for people under 20 and, perhaps, 30 times the national expected value for the 13-15 age group (I can't find stats on diabetes in just this age group, which is why I say 'perhaps'-it could be 40 or 50 times the national expected value- I just don't have the numbers.
How do I help my towns' 0-12 year olds- I believe we are going to see a ridiculous number of them develop type 1 diabetes. How do I stop this? What changes should their parents make to stop this from happening? Is there a point to screening and finding these people early? Or would they just be on insulin extra years and would those extra years on insulin be worse for them than not knowing?
Politics is fine, but how do I help these real children who don't know what's coming?



Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 02, 2005 at 06:40:43:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by ANN [1003.516] on June 01, 2005 at 07:54:32:

Thanks, Ann!

You probasbly know more about the recent developments than I do. I have gleaned what I know from subscribing to the monthly literature search service of Functional Medicine Update for the past 20+ years. You could get their diabetes index by contacting them and offering a donation. See the holistic practitioners archives for how to contact them. This service reviews ALL of the world's literature and explains it every month.

I have followed these developments from the beginning of the service, which just happened to coincide with the onset of MY most serious kind of type II diabetes (Syndrome X). I have been on insulin for 25 years and have avoided all of the complications EXCEPT for my massive coronary 2 years ago. SO, I must be doing something right.

Let us know what else you learn. "Everybody is smarter than anybody!"

Walt




Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on June 02, 2005 at 17:15:30:

In Reply to: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 02, 2005 at 06:40:43:

thanks. Guess most of us here started out on the standard american diet and have tried various ways of eating. How many years of your life have been spent with whole foods?
My mom was a really intelligent RN who turned me on to cold-pressed safflower oil and brown rice around 1980. In keeping with the advice of the time she went super low fat, lowsalt, and would only eat fish occasionally in teensy 5 ounce jars packed in water with no salt added. It seemed like the right idea at the time. Have you spent part of your life eating stuff that seemed healthy at the time, but donesn't so anymore, like margarine or other foods?



Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 03, 2005 at 08:43:52:

In Reply to: Re: Dr Stoll -statisics-who should I believe? DOWN WITH THE ADA! Archive. posted by ANN [1003.516] on June 02, 2005 at 17:15:30:

Yep, Ann!

By the time my mother caught on to whole foods, I was away at college and medical school learning the party line. I did not learn about whole foods until I had been out in practice for 15 years. So, I have had 45 years of bad diet and only 20 years of a sensible diet.

Walt

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