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I have just been reading in the National Press about the Royal Marine Commandos sent by the UK Prime Minister at the request of President Bush to serve in Afghanistan.
These men are probably the most elite force in the world, the fittest, healthiest, strongest. They are currently needed there because of their ability to survive and fight in extreme conditions eg. at 10,000 ft above sea level in bitter conditions, yet I have been reading what they eat.
Apparently, the Marines have 5,500 calories per day, as opposed to the normal 3,500 for a man. Their diet consists of dehydrated and tinned foods, rice, sweets and chocolate (presumably while they are out there - I don't know but that's what it said).
In my book this diet is appalling but it does beg the question that if diet is so important for health, how come these men are so fit and healthy eating that rubbish.
Maz
In Reply to: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Maz on April 17, 2002 at 09:02:58:
nm
In Reply to: GOOD POINT! nmi posted by Aaron2 on April 17, 2002 at 09:17:48:
I was not in the Royal Marines but I was in the US Marines (I will skip the argument about which fighting force is better, I have my own ideas after training with some of them). These are all very young very fit people at the peak of their physical abilities. Not everyone gets to be a US or UK Marine, or SEAL or Green Beret, you have to be at your peek to earn the title. From Walt's book these people at the high point of immunity, so of course they can eat that stuff. In the USMC we ate in the field MRE's, an equally over-processed food type that can stay fresh forever etc. Well at 48 and having continued to eat junk I have learned that type of diet over time will hurt you. But at 19 your concern is more directed at avoiding a certain type if lead poisioning, not LGS, unfortunately.
In Reply to: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Maz on April 17, 2002 at 09:02:58:
The ability to perform advanced fitness tasks is not the same thing as being healthy. For example, elite athletes are seldom healthy. They suffer chronic and acute injuries and fatigue. They train, by definition, to the limit of human performance and sometimes beyond that limit into breakdown. Soldiers and athletes are not interested in health as 'normal' people define it; they are interested in performance. The ability to hike 20 miles with a full backpack, or climb an 8 foot wall, or sprint a quarter of a mile, etc. often means the difference between success and failure, life or death. Longevity during wartime is often measured in weeks, not decades.
In Reply to: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Maz on April 17, 2002 at 09:02:58:
did you ever notice that some people do everything wrong, including diet, but thrive? even to an old age? do you believe the vague claim that its just "good genetics" ? even when no one else in the family has the same experience ?
NO WAY
("These men are probably the most elite force in the world, the fittest, healthiest, strongest." jeez, what is this, the warped mentality of a james bond movie ? just kidding Maz. sorry to say the sun set several decades ago...semper fi tom F.)
its the power of bodymind. some people with the right stuff going on in the pysche just dont seem to be phased by even the most horrible stuff. (is that not the aim of good soldier training ?) i suppose that these people were so strong bodymind wise that no leaking gut ever developed, but in any case, its along the lines of amazing positive attitudes, extreme motivation, happiness, contentment, etc. and certainly, gung ho programs with constant and regimented, effective structured encouragement towards highest confidance could foster such strong development of the bodymind in at least a few ways i would think. not to mention, the great effect of super physical fitness on the development of a super strong bodymind.
in macrobiotics, one high achievemnt is to be macrobiotic without even eating macrobiotic! what you take in as wisdom from the world around you can be even more profoundly effective than what you take in as "wisdom" from your diet.
lincoln points to it. look at something like the early tewntieth century explorers of antartica. several of the british pioneers simply should have died. the specifics of the horrors of their conditions not only are astounding, but defy what we know as commonly accepted medical norms...incredible strenuous physical activity non stop for weeks on end with a caloric deficiet around 2500 daily WITH BODY TEMPERATURE BELOW 95 for those weeks !!!
as well, think of the tibetan monks, not being phased by conditions that would kill us. BODYMIND's power comes out in many differnt ways, including the regiments of the royal marines.
In Reply to: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Maz on April 17, 2002 at 09:02:58:
Thanks, Maz, for bringing this up!
A healthy diet is a long term proposition!
For emergencies, like battlefield conditions, calories are all that matter for at least months at a time. Whole foods would spoil since they are nutritious enough for other creatures to eat. Our bodies store the micronutrients needed for metabolism and health for at least months without taking them in.
Talk to any of these guys and you will find that they are VERY glad to get off these field rations when they get back. Rotations now last only a few months now, partly for exactly this reason.
However, the conditions we have been discussing on this BB are from people eating junk like this for many YEARS.
Hope this is making sense to you. This concept is critical.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Missing the Point posted by Tom F on April 17, 2002 at 09:54:50:
Thanks, Tom F.
Right on!
I am glad that I wrote MY response before seeing yours.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: semper fi, Re: Diet of the Royal Marines how can diet, which is everything, be nothing to some people posted by leon cavallo on April 18, 2002 at 02:36:26:
I agree with you here Leon. Bodymind plays a huge part in our health. My own personal experience has been, that whenever I have been on holiday and out of my normal routine, and enjoying life, my health improves tremendously. My skin clears up, my energy levels go through the roof, and I have an enthusiam for life, my mind even seems clearer.
I can eat whatever food I want on holiday and am not affected in the slightest.My favourite holiday foods include sticky date pudding, cakes, chips, foodstuff that I never eat at home as they effect my body negatively.But when I get back to my normal life, I cant continue like that. Old symptoms return with a vengeance as the new outlook dies. Maybe it is mind over matter. I do feel sooo much more relaxed and contented in a new environment. If only I could keep the holiday mode indefinitely. Anyone know how I can do this without having to leave home??? ;-)
In Reply to: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Maz on April 17, 2002 at 09:02:58:
A former member of the British SAS wrote an article recently in the Times of London, expressing his grave concern about dispatching British Marines to Afghanistan.
First, they are not trained to operate at elevations above, or even near 10,000 feet. The highest mountain in Britain is in Scotland (Ben Nevis), and it is just over 4,000 feet.
The only forces in the world that have a regular opportunity to train in areas over 10,000 feet, are US. This is commonly in Colorado, but even then, only a small portion of the forces take part.
The British commandos are a fine force, but the point the SAS guy made was they had absolutely no training or experience at these altitudes. US forces are becoming better at it in Afghanistan, because they've become acclimated.
As for the daily caloric intake, given the weight these guys carry, the temperatures and altitude, 5,300 calories might be the bare minimum. As much fat, protein and sugar as can be squeezed in is also desirable. These things have a better pshycological effect when you're getting shot at.
In Reply to: Re: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Jay on April 19, 2002 at 11:37:47:
Let me add, the UK Marines and SAS do face training limitations due to geography, that is why they sometimes train with US forces (and sometimes we with them). The US 10th Mountain Div., along with selected Marine units have the best high altitude training that I am aware of, but the number of people so trained is not that large. And simply stated, there is NO fighting force trained to do everything expertly (as much as they think they can).
As to calories I can tell you that humping in excess of 100lbs (sometimes much more) of gear all day requires lots of calories, and as Doc Stoll pointed out, whole foods just cannot be carried into the field, there is no place to keep them. So foods are high fat and calories, very condensed calories. Add to this is that in the field in combat the use of "uppers" of one type or another is not unheard of. I have heard of guys in Special Forces in Vietnam basically living on rice, issued rations, tylenol (kills the pain) and speed, the result being that a rifle squad keeps moving, patroling, fighting around the clock for several days straight. I don't think the Op tempo in Afghanistan requires that level generally, but US forces can operate that way when needed. Ah, to be young again !
In Reply to: Re: semper fi, Re: Diet of the Royal Marines how can diet, which is everything, be nothing to some people posted by Sensual on April 18, 2002 at 10:37:24:
how ?
maybe move to a new place.
maybe you are more sensitive at home because you are breathing lots of mold and mycotoxins at THAT LOCATION which are not there elsewhere , so your total load is reduced when you leave that possibly bad environment, so you have more ability to handle other bad things ?
In Reply to: Re: Diet of the Royal Marines posted by Tom F on April 19, 2002 at 12:53:08:
makes me think again that we are so lucky to have people among us who will volunteer to do these things for us in the name of all of our defense. thanks to those presently in and formerly in !
In Reply to: Re: semper fi, Re: Diet of ...what ever sensual wants ? posted by leon cavallo on April 20, 2002 at 00:14:50:
In Reply to: What ever sensual wants - Sensual gets! - - -{nmi} posted by One Who Knows on April 22, 2002 at 01:45:51:
Erm, who are you? I dont think you know me, so I doubt you could make that statement, unless you are psychic. Why dont you reveal yourself and we can get to the bottom of this?
BTW, thanks for the compliment. Keep 'em coming....
Sensual
In Reply to: Re: What ever sensual wants - Sensual gets! - - -{nmi} posted by Sensual on April 22, 2002 at 03:05:07:
Offense was not meant.
I merely notice that you brook no arguement and seldom take no for an answer.
A 1000 pardons.
In Reply to: Appologies Oh Sensual One. The Remark -Made In Jest! posted by One Who Knows on April 22, 2002 at 07:28:55:
Wait, while I get my whip out and crack it over your head!!! Just kidding. ;-) I guess I am feeling a little sensitive at the moment.
Thanks for explaining your comment...
In Reply to: Re: semper fi, Re: Diet of ...what ever sensual wants ? posted by leon cavallo on April 20, 2002 at 00:14:50:
Leon
Thanks for the tips. I plan on moving to a new place, in the not too distant future. The place I plan on moving to is interstate. It is tropical, a kind of tropical Hawaii, but not Hawaii. Certain things have to fall in place in my life before the move can take place, but it WILL happen, you can bet on it.
My health improved soooo much there. I just hope though its not just the holiday mentality that improved things. But my whole body resonated with that place, like nowhere else has done.
I am not sure about the moulds you mentioned because where I live is a very dry, desert like climate. Where I want to move is the exact opposite; very humid, and yet I still got much, much better. We shall see.
Plan on holidaying there next year for about a month or so, to make sure that it is where I need to be. I dont want to cart my old problems with me, they need to be resolved first before making the move. Have done that before. Well, actually, worse before cos moved different countries, not once but a few times, and does that get expensive or what!
Been through Europe, lived in California before, but no place was like that place. It was like coming home again.
Sensual
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