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I'm looking for a whole food bread that's good for sandwiches. I have a breadmaker, but the loaves I've made are too heavy to make good sandwiches. Anyone know a store brand loaf or recipe? The health food stores here emphasize vegan and organic breads rather than those with whole foods ingredients.
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
Ezekiel sprouted bread is by far the best whole food bread that I have come across. All the garins in the bread have been sprouted to neutralize anti-nutrients. Your local health food store should carry it. If not they can probably have it brought in.
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
Try traditional types of bread -- sourdough bread. You can learn a lot and buy cultures obtained from all over the world at Sourdoughs International. Microbes transform grains into something more digestible and healthful.
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
My local healthfood store has a Spelt Sourdough bread that is excellent. I'm not sure if you can get it where you live, but it is made by Berlin Natural Bakery.
-HY
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by GG on May 29, 2003 at 15:16:55:
I agree, Ezekiel is the best (store bought) bread I ever ate.
Trader Joe's has the brand Food for Life. Perhaps other stores can get it too. (It costs 50% more at Whole Foods than at TJ's, though.)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 29, 2003 at 23:56:16:
Trader Joe's is a godsend to us, in terms of some products.
It's more likely that it costs 100% more at Whole Foods than at TJ's, but it's 50% cheaper at TJ's than at Whole Foods.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 29, 2003 at 23:56:16:
All the Food For Life breads I've seen are made with refined flours and fruit sweeteners, so those would not be appropriate for the perfect whole foods diet, I don't think. They are tasty, though!
Look at the French Meadows bakery website. They are in Minnesota, and will mail order breads anywhere in the US if you buy 8 loaves or more. Everything I've ordered from there ships and freezes well. Many are whole foods, some are yeast-free and wheat-free. The ones I've tried make good sandwiches, but I usually toast them first to keep them from crumbling. I like their sourdough 100% rye and spelt health seed. I don't eat wheat, but if you do, you have more choices. Just check the ingredient list carefully.
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Nutmeg on May 30, 2003 at 00:14:03:
Say it isn't so !!!!
Here are the ingredients from a loaf of Food for Life Ezekiel 4:9 ("flourless") sprouted sesame bread:
sprouted wheat
sprouted barley
sprouted millet
malted barley
sprouted lentils
sprouted soybeans
sprouted spelt
filtered water
fresh yeast
sea salt
unhulled sesame seeds
I assume this is not PWFD but is pretty good for a WFD. This is Food for Life out of Corona, CA. Perhaps it's a different company?
It never hurts to read between the lines on labels, but this one seems pretty straightforwrd. (I think)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by R. on May 30, 2003 at 00:12:07:
A loaf costs $2.00 at TJ's, and $3.00 at Whole Foods. To me that looks like 50% more, not 100% (??)
For a while I was getting butter made from unpasteurized cream at Trader Joe's, but they seem to have pulled that from the shelf. Too bad. At the local Whole Foods a pound of unpasteurized butter is $10.00 but at TJ's it was about $3.00
I'll let you calculate the percentages :)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 00:50:57:
Do you remember the brand of the butter? I've shopped at TJ's for probably 3 years or so and never seen raw butter there.
Yes, your calculations are correct. It's a good thing I used the word "likely". :) I just remember that many breads at TJ's were about $1.50 and close to $3 or more at WF and that many people don't know how to calculate difference expressed in per cent. I won't doubt your math skills anymore.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 00:35:14:
I found a refined ingredient in it -- filtered water.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by R. on May 30, 2003 at 01:05:41:
That's OK.... I remember a time when I got a cut in pay, the surprise I got when doing percentages in the reverse direction, with quite a different result than when figuring raises :)
About the raw butter, I don't know if it's exactly the same as a butter that says RAW on the label, but what caught my eye was absence of the word pasteurized. It just says "Ingredients: Cream".
What IS the distinction, I wonder??
The brand was Trader Joe's brand. I plan to ask them if they can stock it again, if it fails to show up again.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 01:37:42:
Ya, I got some of that stuff at trader joe's. I remember reading that if something doesn't say homogenized or pateurised then it is raw. That was referring specifically to products from Europe. The butter I got was from Ireland I think.
Be well,
Sounder
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread -- it isn't so! posted by R. on May 30, 2003 at 01:08:49:
LOL you devil.
Now I'm gonna have to find out what KIND of a filter they use, and whether it is NSF certified. (sigh, it never ends)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Sounder on May 30, 2003 at 01:57:05:
Interesting to know, Sounder.
I also look for cheeses that omit the word pasteurized. They seem to be imported & very expensive, but not always. Found some non-pasteurized "Asagio" cheese at Smart & Final that was very reasonable.
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
NMI
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
NMI
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Nutmeg on May 30, 2003 at 00:14:03:
Oops, sorry, Jan & R--I should have been more clear about the type of breads. I'm talking about the Food For Life wheat and gluten-free breads like Rice Almond, Raisin Pecan, China Black Rice. They all contain refined flours and fruit sweetener.
I actually didn't realize that FFL makes the Ezekiel bread, which I know IS whole food. I don't eat wheat, so I don't buy it (although I have had a slice or two). Sorry about the gross generalization and incorrect information!!
Hope this clears things up. Don't feel guilty about that little bit of filtered water ;-)
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Sounder on May 30, 2003 at 01:57:05:
Sounder,
Was that KerryGold butter in the gold foil pack, by chance? I saw some from a distance at my local Safeway store the other day. Next time I'm there I'll cross the aisle and see what it says on the package.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread & butter posted by Nutmeg on May 30, 2003 at 11:40:30:
Hi Nutmeg,
Yes indeed, it is KerryGold. Safeway? hmmm, I'll have to check. I don't have a lot of knowledge about this specific brand, but seems like a good choice.
Be well,
Sounder
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread, non-pasteurized dairy posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 02:02:30:
Thanks Jan, another good tip!
Sounder
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread & butter posted by Sounder on May 30, 2003 at 12:51:00:
It is very tasty, but I am pretty sure it's pasteurized. Although, I think it's from pastured cows.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread & butter posted by R. on May 30, 2003 at 22:46:28:
Hi Sounder and R.,
I was at Safeway today and checked the label on the KerryGold Irish butter. It just said cream, nothing about it being pasteurized. If what Jan posted about the wording is correct, then perhaps it is raw. The package said "product of Ireland" but it was packed in Illinois, so I don't know if that changes the rules or not. The other butters, all domestic, said they contained pasteurized cream. In any case, it's good to know it's pastured, even if it isn't pasteurized :) I normally eat Organic Valley butter, but will try the KerryGold next time I run out. The high-priced spread will be quite a treat.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--Food For Life bread clarification.. posted by Nutmeg on May 30, 2003 at 11:13:01:
OK, thanks for the clarification.
That bit about the filtered water was not serious, I should have put a bunch of grins. (but looks like you are grinning too)
I noted your (earlier) tip about the mail-order bread but I probably won't use it - for that would be committing myself to eating bread, when I am actually moving towards getting it out of my life - easier said than done. (my DH keeps wanting to keep it stocked, so....)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 00:35:14:
Well, Jan, I agree Ezeleil bread is perhaps one of the better commercial breads available, but they do use *yeast* as the leavening agent (instead of natural leaveners). That's the part I'm not happy with.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on May 30, 2003 at 01:37:42:
After reading posts from this thread, I checked the ingredients on the butter package. Well it says "Pasterized organic sweet cream and microbial culture." What is the real harm here with the pasterized cream, Jan, or anybody?
I do use butter frequently--it's very yummy.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? posted by bing on May 31, 2003 at 08:34:36:
Why not pasteurized cream? Same reason why not pasteurized milk: loss of vitamins, destruction of enzymes. Chemicals may have been added after the pasteurization to restore taste & odor. Synthetic vitamin D may be added, which has been linked to heart disease.
So far, I haven't bothered to find out if the cheaper, apparently raw butter I'm getting is coming from pastured animals or not; I assume it's not. (which is desirable but not at $10.00 a pound).
I'm a mere endpoint in a long food chain. So every bit of choice counts for something. (No need to belabor this point with YOU, I don't think!)
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by bing on May 31, 2003 at 08:25:20:
Thanks, Bing.
What do you have against "yeast"?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? posted by bing on May 31, 2003 at 08:34:36:
Hi, Bing.
I see nothing wrong with pastuerized cream (butter). For the fat byproducts of dairy it is the homogenization that is the problem.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Walt Stoll on June 01, 2003 at 06:48:05:
To me, the leavening process is to make whole grains more digestable by reducing some of the phytic acid etc. I read that leavening by yeast does next to nothing in this respect but only makes the bread fluffy. In other words, the natural leavening process (as used by most ancient cultures around the world) adds more nourishing and healing properties to whole grains, by using the living organisms around us(as in sourdough leavening) to "digest" the food for us first. Yeasted bread, however, offers no such healing powers except some cosmetic features, but causes disharmony in our gut environment.
Yeast was first manufactured in a French lab about 100 years ago, and because of the convenience, got spread all over the western world for breading-making, especially large scale bread making.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? (bing) posted by Jan S. on May 31, 2003 at 19:12:54:
I wonder how exactly it is pasterized. By radiation, or merely high heat?
What do you think of Walt's comment, Jan?
btw, since you are the geek girl here, you can tell me what's wrong with the blank response you posted under my bread question in this thread.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by bing on June 01, 2003 at 08:51:39:
Bing, there are many kinds of yeasts and are found in many "natural leaveners". Some yeasts produce lactic acid too. Many natural, old, traditional sourdough cultures contains some yeasts. Just as not all bacteria are the same, not all yeasts are the same.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? (bing) posted by bing on June 01, 2003 at 08:56:36:
By heat... for now.
The BB has been corrupted. Read Bill's message on the top.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? (bing) posted by Jan S. on May 31, 2003 at 19:12:54:
Jan, where are you getting that cheaper, apparently raw butter?
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread & butter posted by Nutmeg on May 30, 2003 at 23:45:30:
Trader Joe's probably carries it for less. So, if you have access to it...
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by bing on May 31, 2003 at 08:25:20:
they do use *yeast* as the leavening agent (instead of natural leaveners). That's the part I'm not happy with
Interesting. I never thought about yeast as being any kind of problem, except as a possible allergen. I then went and looked it up in the Paul Pitchford book and read about natural leaveners. Interesting! This may explain why the FFL Ezekiel bread is so light in texture, compared to what you expect with home-prepared Ezekiel bread.
I did make some Ezekiel bread from scratch & cooked it in the sun. Such an amazing taste. It was dense and not pretty looking, but so tasty. Some things are tasty as in "oh god, I've got have to have more of this!" This was the opposite - the taste of deep nutrition and satisfaction - wish I had better words. It takes practice to get it to come out well each time though.
You missed all the fun with the blank messages :(
(BTW as a proper geek girl, I make postings in an editor and save them before pasting in. This is one of the ones that was lost but I still had it on my hard drive.)
See Bill's post for what happened.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on June 01, 2003 at 15:16:27:
I then went and looked it up in the Paul Pitchford book and read about natural leaveners.
Maybe, as a proper geek girl, you have a scanner and could easily inform me of these "natural leaveners"? If not, could you do that anyway? Yeasts are pretty natural, I think. So why wouldn't the "natural leaveners" contain some yeasts too? And how can you be sure that the one you are using doesn't contain some? Perhaps, it's a matter of kind of yeast and domination?
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by Jan S. on June 01, 2003 at 15:16:27:
I believe you have experienced the Tao of food and nutrition--when you said "the taste of deep nutrition and satisfaction." Yes! Truly good, wholesom foods nourishes the *soul* and you can feel it being nourished while eating. That's food on a spiritual level...
btw, since you are reading the Pitchford book, you may also want to take a quick look at "The Boubty of Rye" on page 461, which talks about how healing traditional European style rye bread is.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread posted by R. on June 01, 2003 at 15:29:48:
Actually, the home-made Ezekiel bread is dense mainly due to using NO leavening. It's ground wheat sprouts, cooked in a solar oven (or just the sun) & that's it. Since there is no flour, I'd imagine that it takes a lot of rising power (by whatever means) to get it as fluffy as it comes out in the commercial product. I gathered from the Pitchford book that only commercial yeast is capable of this. (This is pretty new to me.) Anyway, I'll be happy to scan those pages.
The distinction appears to be between "commercial yeast" vs. sourdough starters ("natural" leaveners). The relevant sentence reads: "Sourdough and natural leavening have been with us for thousands of years. Yeast for bread is a relatively recent innovation, discovered in the chemist's lab in France about one hundred years ago." (p. 451) Then it goes on to explain some negative health effects of commerical yeast, then it talks about ways to use sourdough starters.
I'm not sure whether there's a sharp line to be drawn here, or not. Sourdough starters certainly draw yeasts from the air.
By the way, thanks for the "sourdoughs of the world" link.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? (bing) posted by R. on June 01, 2003 at 15:11:27:
It was Trader Joe's own brand, in a red and yellow package. It's gone from the shelves here. (shrug) But sometimes their stock is inconsistent, so we'll see.
Was in TJ's today and saw some of that KerryGold butter for $2.19 / 8 oz. - I splurged. Ingredients "Cream, salt"
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? (bing) posted by Jan S. on June 01, 2003 at 18:17:13:
Hmm... I never thought that Trader Joe's own brand was raw. This needs to be confirmed. It would be cool if that were true.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? posted by Walt Stoll on June 01, 2003 at 06:51:02:
I see nothing wrong with pastuerized cream (butter)
From Skinny on Fats:
"The Wulzen Factor: Called the "antistiffness" factor, this compound is present in raw animal fat. Researcher Rosalind Wulzen discovered that this substance protects humans and animals from calcification of the joints—degenerative arthritis. It also protects against hardening of the arteries, cataracts and calcification of the pineal gland.63 Calves fed pasteurized milk or skim milk develop joint stiffness and do not thrive. Their symptoms are reversed when raw butterfat is added to the diet. Pasteurization destroys the Wulzen factor—it is present only in raw butter, cream and whole milk."
I've spoken with a woman who clearly feels it's true. When she drinks raw milk (in a form of kefir), her very arthritic stiff wrists become flexible again, and when she for some reason doesn't, the symptoms return. So, decide for yourself is there's anything in raw butter that isn't in a pasteurized one.
For the fat byproducts of dairy it is the homogenization that is the problem.
I thought that only milk is gets homogenized to prevent cream from rising to the surface. What would be the reason to homogenize fat byproducts of dairy?
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread & butter posted by R. on June 01, 2003 at 15:13:37:
Thanks, R., but the 400-mile round trip would more than eat up my savings ;-) I'll put it on my list for the next time I travel.
In Reply to: whole foods bread posted by Lori on May 29, 2003 at 14:48:24:
Natural Ovens Bakery makes really good muffins, cookies and a bunch of different breads made from whole-grain ingredients without the sugar. I find them in most supermarkets in the same aisle as the "other" breads.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? posted by R. on June 02, 2003 at 00:23:22:
Thanks, R.
I learned something new today.
I was of the impression that milk was first homogenized before the cream was separated to make butter. Is that the wrong order?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? posted by R. on June 02, 2003 at 00:23:22:
In Reply to: butter from pasterized cream: Just So Everyone Knows What We Are Talking About posted by Gregory on June 03, 2003 at 06:53:50:
I would like to have that source followed by
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? Archive . posted by Walt Stoll on June 03, 2003 at 06:31:17:
Yes, that is the wrong order. After milk is homogenized, cream will not separate. To permanently mix the milk fat with the liquid part of the milk and prevent separation is the purpose of homogenization.
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? Archive . posted by R. on June 03, 2003 at 16:32:02:
Makes sense, R.
That says to me that there is no purpose to homogenized butter.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: whole foods bread--is butter from pasterized cream really bad? Archive . posted by Walt Stoll on June 04, 2003 at 08:51:59:
Exactly.
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