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Please excuse my ignorance; I was raised by a bunch of heathens, and my knowledge of biblical matters is quite limited.
During communion unleavened bread is used, and Jews enjoy unleavened bread. Middle Easterners eat pita bread, which I've heard is (supposedly) similar to what was eaten during Biblical times. Yet Ezekial bread (a recipe taken from the Bible) and other breads which are touted as similar to what was eaten during that era are leavened. Which is accurate? (I've been Googling for a long time on this, and there are scores of pages to read and recipes, etc. to sort through. I was hoping somewhere here who is knowledgable in history/Biblical matters KNOWS the answer -- so please, if you don't KNOW please don't guess or speculate. Also, I do NOT want to get into a lengthy religious discussion/debate of what the bread supposedly symbolizes; thanks.)
On the Net I read that back then "wine was on every table." What did the children drink (besides water), were they given wine too or a non-alcoholic grape juice-type drink? Again, if you don't know please don't speculate, and please don't lead us into a tangential "blood of Christ" discussion.
Thanks in advance for answers, hopefully with references. Or if someone knows a book they can recommend on this subject that would be AWESOME! Thanks. :)
In Reply to: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 20:20:37:
It was unleavened, just flour and water. Just like matzo which is the closest thing to the original
In Reply to: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 20:20:37:
Yes, often it was unleavened but the Jews also made leavened bread using wheat flour or barley flour. Wheat was more expensive so not all had access. Judges 7:13, 2 Kings 4:42 and John 6:9, 13 mention barley bread. Ge 18:6, Le 2:1 and 1 Ki 4:22 mention fine flour but often a mortar and pestle was used, making coarse flour.
In making leavened bread, the general practice was to take a piece of dough retained from a previous baking and use it as a leavening agent by crumbling it into the water and then mixing in the flour and kneading and letting it stand.
It certainly was a staple for others such as Egyptians, Greeks, Romans and still important in the middle East.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Bible Student on November 20, 2003 at 21:49:56:
about what the kids drank besides water? Thanks.
In Reply to: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 20:20:37:
what would jesus eat cookbook by Don Colbert includes historical and scientific info, 13.99 at amazon.com.
If you put "what would jesus eat" into your google search, you'll get several sites with info
A book I don't recall the author of is "of these may ye freely eat" which deals with Biblical diet and suggests living only on foods mentioned in the bible is the key to health- there are religions that do this
An author named Roberta Kalechofsky, PhD has a relevant book available at 1-800-695-2241
item #289455s Vegetarian Judaism Coming to vegetarianism from the path of Judaic teachings, and following the teachings to the path of vegetarianism. 250 pgs usually 15.95, on sale for $8
Judaism isn't just about using what's in the Bible, but applying it-it uses many books of commentary and rulings and Rabbis today are still expected to interpret the OldTestament. The rules regarding food being kosher spell out things about the corpse of an animal being clean, free of disease, and killed in the most painless method possible, as well as rules about draining the blood.
Factory farming would be ruled non-kosher by any rabbi who learned about it- the feeding of anti-biotics and hormones, penning, giving unnatural food- these would all violate Jewish law. Mad cow disease came from feeding sheep's brain to cows- the Bible precludes this-it says you can't mix two unequal animals together, can't mix fibers, can't sow dissimilar seeds--this means genetic engineering of food is prohibited by Jewish law.
Whether any of these books deals with what children drank, I don't know, but let us consider history and tradition. The tribes of Israel were scattered. The sephardim went to the arabean peninsula, as well as along the mediterranean into italy, spain, portugal and lower france. The Ashzenazi went up the Balkans, some settling along there and some continuing into russia, poland, german, and a bit into scandanavia, holland,northern france.
The Jews who went into the Arabian peninsula eventually were surrounded by Islam. Alcohol probably became a part of the past for them until they were expelled in the late 40's and re-settled in Israel. Jews who went to Europe were in areas where alcohol was not a cultural problem, so they were more likely to keep their traditions. Southern french Jewish families give their children wine, mixed with water, The amount of the mix depends on the age of the child. When I was 4, I got about 3/4 water and 1/4 wine in my glass. At 8, it was half water and half wine. By 12, it was all wine ( remember, in Judaism, the age of adulthood is 12 for females, 13 for males).This was probably based on Sephardic tradition. The Ashkenazi Jews ( who are more what Americans are familiar with, as they made the largest group of immigrants) today use very sweet wine ( taste maneshewitz (can't spell).In Germany, the children were given large mugs of a super sweet wine called port. I suspect the alcohol content is not that strong. American culture frowns on alcohol for children, so children at an American Jewish event are more likely to be given grape juice and on non-holidays are drinking the same as other american kids- complete assimilation.
The point of eating matzo on Passover is that it's unusual-there was no time for the bread to rise, kosher preparation of matzo involves not only no yeast, but rules about the length of time to prepare it and bake it.The rest of the year, it would be reasonable to assume they were eating leavened bread, although you have to consider the nomadic life some people in the area lived, certain breads might be prepared for travel that would not rot as easily as when stopped in one place for a while, so it would be reasonable to expect at least two different methods for breadmaking.
In Reply to: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 20:20:37:
Hi,Curious.
The most original information references I know of is the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls by Edward Szekely. There are separate tranlations for diet, etc.
Contact the International Biogenic Society at I.B.S. Internacional, Apartado 372, Cartago, Costa Rica, Central America for a catalog. These monogarms are very inexpensive.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 20:20:37:
It is my understanding of reading the Bible unleavened bread was only eaten at Passover.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by maire on November 21, 2003 at 07:52:56:
Thanks, maire, this is a WEALTH of info.
Do you know if pregnant women were instructed not to drink wine anywhere in the Bible?
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 21, 2003 at 11:54:34:
I've read so little of the bible, I really don't know. The Bible wasn't really written for women to read- study of the great books was a man's domain. I've never heard of any such prohibition.
Judaism, unlike Christianity, favored the life of the mother over the life of the child- a child was not considered until half of it had emerged from the mother's body.Judaism is so much more than the Bible, that I can't tell you where in the books such info exists.
But Judaism was designed to evolve with man's knowledge and reason, and current technological info about the developing fetus and about fetal alcohol syndrome would be taken into account by modern scholars who would interpret the rules for our times.
Jews do not have a large problem with alcoholism, which is true of cultures with close family ties, so fetal alcohol syndrome may not be much of an issue in that cultural context.
I'm wondering if there might not be religious sites like this bulletin board where people more knowledgeable about the Bible might answer such questions.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by maire on November 21, 2003 at 15:16:45:
Thanks for the info.
Yes, there are such BBs but my impression is that those posters aren't as knowledgable on diet, etc. as the people here. :) Plus I wanted to avoid getting into a religious discussion, which seems unavoidable on those sites.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Curious on November 21, 2003 at 11:54:34:
Curious, two things to keep in mind: The Jews of today don't really follow the original Jewish traditions. They really aren't supposed to since Jesus put an end to the original Mosaic Law. (Galatians) Also, the people during those ages were much closer to perfection than we are today, being six thousand years since the creation of Adam, who was a vegetarian by the way. Noah was given permission to eat meat and the Jews had their restrictions about meat later on but Christians were only told to avoid animals that had been strangled or "unbled". (Acts 15:29)
In Reply to: Thanks. Do you know... posted by Curious on November 20, 2003 at 22:18:09:
2Tim 6:23 Do not drink water any longer, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent cases of sickness. This comes from a letter written by the Apostle Paul. Timothy was just a teenager possibly.
There's nothing about children and wine but the Jews made wine from a variety of fruits such as pomegranate so I would assume the children could have several fruit juices to drink right from the winepresses but by winter the juices would have turned to wine.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Linda on November 21, 2003 at 08:20:45:
Yes, it was a command to have only unleavened bread on that occasion as well as at the Festival of Unfermented Cakes.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Bible Reader on November 21, 2003 at 17:03:42:
why would Jesus 'putting an end to Mosaic law' have anything to do with what Jews are 'supposed' to do?
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by maire on November 21, 2003 at 17:34:19:
The Mosaic Law was made up of many decrees in order to set apart the Israelites as God's chosen nation. It was only to be in effect until the coming of the Messiah. This is one of many scriptures which explains this. Galatians 3:24, 25 Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ that we might be delared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor. Also Gal. 2:13 Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law.......so any dietary restrictions are no longer in force according to God anyway.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by Bible Reader on November 21, 2003 at 19:13:52:
oy vey!
I hope you are happy and content in your Messiah. We await ours. We haven't abandoned our laws. They are sensible for health and for interpreting the world.
If you get a chance to read, 'Of These May Ye Freely Eat' you'll find a healthy diet.
In Reply to: Re: Question about diet during Biblical times posted by maire on November 21, 2003 at 19:47:30:
Maire, May I ask, "By what method are you going to recognize your Messiah? " Dan. 9:25, 26.
In Reply to: Re: Question about Biblical times posted by Bible Reader on November 21, 2003 at 22:31:24:
Actually, that's about the question furthest from my mind- I assume he'll make himself known.
To me, the concept of a Messiah is about hope. Is there meant to be an actual one?- I don't know or care. I believe claiming the messiah has come has been bad for most Christians- I am amazed at how many of them don't smile, are negative, and have no optimism to speak of. I live in a small town with a Christian church for each 150 residents ( of all and no denominations). But the people here are such gloomy gusses. I can see being depressed if something bad happens- your loved one or good friend dies, you'll be down for a while. You get a major bad diagnosis, you'll be less than cheerful. But these people seem NEVER happy.
I'd like to shake them and say ,"SMILE_ g_d loves you" but they've abandoned g_d for Jesus and they don't seem to have inner happiness.
I've met a few Mormons who walk around with smiles like Donny and Marie. I may think the things I've heard about their religion ( like holy underwear and individual planets) are kind of nut case, but at least they seem happy.Those I've met don't gossip and put down other people. They have a serenity.
I've been to public meetings where the prayer is offerred, "in Jesus' name" and I wonder if it's against their religion to pray to g_d and thereby be somewhat more inclusive.
My people don't do petitionary prayer, anyway- we consider prayer a giving of thanks-I send off a few dozen short ones every day- it's a beautiful world.
In Reply to: Re: Question about Biblical times posted by maire on November 22, 2003 at 09:10:44:
I really agree with your observations, Maire. All those discrepancies are also observed by God. It's really unfortunate that those very things have caused people to distance themselves from God's Word which contains the real hope for this world.
Daniel was an outstanding man, taken into captivity by Babylon as a teenager and living to almost 100 years of age being absolutely faithful for all those years. He refused to eat the delicacies offered to him, he refused to change his manner of prayer (thrown into the lions' den for that) and elevated to a high position in the Babylonion Kingdom. His faithful endurance gives testimony to the truthfulness of the book in his name. His prophecy of the "weeks of years" was believed by the first century Jews for that reason I would think. So at the end of those weeks which was 29 c.e., people were actually looking for the Messiah
according to Luke 3:16.
The Jews who recorded the holy scriptures as well as those written about, beginning with Abraham were noble, honorable people, wholly committed to Almighty God. You have a wonderful heritage, Maire.
In Reply to: Re: Question about Biblical times posted by Bible Reader on November 22, 2003 at 11:03:01:
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