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HELP! My son's condition

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HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Greetings Dr. Stoll,

Thank you for your BB. I have looked through the various posts, but could not pin down my sons problem. We need help because all the Dr's ignore his symptoms and think it's in his mind?

I will make this sort. My son Jeremy has had allergies (wheat, eggs, all diary) that he just found out about six months ago. However, that not the problem. Five years ago he fell twenty feet off a roof. Then last year on Jan.1 he was very sick and taken to the ER for two days.

On Mother's day of this year we had to take him to a Med Clinic because of severe shortness of breath. He was fine for about two weeks and then all of the sudden around the first week of July he began to have the following symptoms random and throughout the day and night:

Panic attacks.
Altered state of mind/feelings/dreaming.
Choking sensation/rapid breathing/mild hyperventalation.
Diffaculty swallowing/talking/thinking/remembering.
Tightness in torso.
Severe Migraine.
Severe anger/frustration/iritability.
Cold/hot hands and feet.
Hypotension.
Hot flashes.
Passing out completely.
Lost 25 pounds.

He was hospitalized for three days and the doc's think it's in the mind? They sent him home with atavan and then start celexa. He takes the atavan but will not take the celexa because the side effects can be thoughts of suicide! He does not need that. While taking the atavan he experences off and on all day hyperventilation, weakness (can't walk out of breath for four to six hours at a time) and hypotension.

We are at our wits end? Any idea what's going on? Help anyone?

Thanks



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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.4757] on July 30, 2008 at 11:49:24:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Hi Mark,

It's sad that doctors choose to ignore symptoms that they don't know how to treat. It's not in your son's mind!

Walt will be able to tell you more specifically, but many of those symptoms sound a LOT like dysautonomia to me.

Not being a doctor, but understanding a lot about how to use self-help to improve health, I can make the following suggestions.

1) Check for more food allergies -- if he has some he might have more that might be partially or totally triggering his problems. Trial and error testing (elimination diet) can be helpful! Peanuts, shellfish, citrus, corn, and soy are a few that come to mind. You might try the "Safe Diet" in Beth Loiselle's book, "The Healing Power of Whole Foods" for a while.

2) Just wondering, have they checked him for West Nile virus? I've known a few people who've experienced that, and it's sudden and often involves weight loss.

3) Did he have bodywork to help recover from the fall 5 years ago? Massage, chiropractic, rolfing, cranio sacral work, maybe even visceral manipulation --- I think all of them are indicated now if they haven't been done previously.

4) To work with what sounds like the nervous system going haywire (dysautonomia) -- our book "Recapture Your Health" gives the best plan we know of for helping this condition. Especially, I'd have him start with Skilled Relaxation.

5) Is your son under a lot of stress? What is his age?

Best wishes,
Jan

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Babette [3266.4592] on July 30, 2008 at 12:00:12:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Assuming his heart has been checked and is okay...Dysautonomia!

And if that's the case your best bet is to get him on the 3LS asap. Twice daily meditation (or other skilled relaxation) is the best way to get his overactive ANS to calm down to a level even close to "normal" people.

See link for more info about it.



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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by North [5501.2761] on July 30, 2008 at 12:18:00:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Babette [3266.4592] on July 30, 2008 at 12:00:12:

Dysautonomia from falling off a roof? I agree that his ANS is out of whack but dysautonomia is an inherited condition. I also agree that the skilled relaxation would help. I'd also look in to finding a good chiropractor.

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 12:23:58:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Babette [3266.4592] on July 30, 2008 at 12:00:12:

Thanks for the help so far guys. To answer some of the questions asked:

He is 23
Heart, lungs, other organs check out ok.
He is a very relaxed young man no stress.
He was going through CMT class the last two weeks of June and in the middle is when it started. He was massaged two a day for two weeks. Maybe to much? What is 3LS and ANS?


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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Babette [3266.4592] on July 30, 2008 at 12:46:33:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 12:23:58:

Hi Mark,

ANS is the Autonomic Nervous System. It controls the unconscious bodily functions like heartrate, digestion, breathing etc.

Look at the list of symptoms on the link I posted to you earlier and you will see all of your sons listed there.

3LS is the 3-pronged approach to optimum health outlined on this website, namely a whole foods diet, regular exercise, and twice daily sessions of some sort of Skilled Relaxation like meditation (20 minutes each time). In my opinion the latter is the most important for sufferers of dysautonomia. It was for me!!!.

Seems like others are chiming in here with other suggestions. These are just my thoughts.

B



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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Ron [3468.2287] on July 30, 2008 at 18:43:04:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Hi Mark,

If there was a head injury that could be the problem..
If not.. then a high thyroid function or maybe
even Lyme Disease are worth checking for.

Lyme http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/8233.html

Thyroid http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/8718.html

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on July 31, 2008 at 07:38:40:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 12:23:58:

Mark,

Review the home page article about "Modern Medical Interpretation of Stress". There is no doubt that this is dysautonomia (which is not an inherited condition--although genetic susceptibility is involved).

Let us know what you learn.

Walt

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on July 31, 2008 at 07:40:35:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Mark,

No doubt that this is dysautonomia. The stress of fallling off the roof was just a precipitating factor the "pushed him off the edge of his cliff" (home page).

Walt

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by North [1848.2761] on July 31, 2008 at 08:50:38:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on July 31, 2008 at 07:38:40:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dysautonomia

This is inherited unless I'm missing something?

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Trish [296.2857] on July 31, 2008 at 10:10:15:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Did anyone test his thyroid? If you google hyperthyroid symptoms, you'll see he has a lot of those. Really, have a doc test his thyroid. I had a lot of those symptoms and was diagnosed as hyperthyroid and they put me on PTU and Inderall and I got my life back. Then I followed Walt's protocol here for the 3LS and I was able to stop the meds after 1 year. The mental symptoms are even worse than the physical symptoms. I really feel for him. Please get him tested (it's just bloodwork).

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.4757] on July 31, 2008 at 16:13:49:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by North [1848.2761] on July 31, 2008 at 08:50:38:

Hi North,

Most conventional doctors have a different viewpoint of dysautonomia than us holistic types. Did you read the archives about dysautonomia?

I'm working on a book with Walt about dysautonomia that will explain where conventional docs miss this.

Best wishes,
Jan

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.4757] on July 31, 2008 at 16:14:54:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 12:23:58:

Hi Mark,

Did you read the article, "The Modern Medical Interpretation of Stress" on the home page?

3LS = three-legged stool wellness program, see the glossary.

ANS = autonomic nervous system.

Best wishes,
Jan

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:37:22:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Trish [296.2857] on July 31, 2008 at 10:10:15:

Yes, four times everytime is good. He got back from the Dr.s office yesterday and was told all the tests show no organic problems--all his organs are working great.

I told my son about the 3LS and he said, "what? I can't even walk, I'm supposed to exercise?" He said I need help now not in a week or month!" ?? He really frustrated.



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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:40:24:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on July 31, 2008 at 07:40:35:

Thanks Dr. Walt, the stress of falling off the roof even if it was 5 years ago? He's just frustrated and falling apart because there is no help or relief.

Thanks again, :)

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by yin yang [2307.4828] on July 31, 2008 at 19:55:24:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

North has great advice--find a good chiropractor in addition to doing the 3L and meditating ..A few adjustments could make a very positive difference.

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.4757] on July 31, 2008 at 22:04:38:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:37:22:

Hi Mark,

You will have to tell your son he will need to become very creative with this. Can he walk for 10 minutes? That's how much I started with. That little 10 minutes every day started making a great difference.

What he needs to understand is that he needs the accumulation of little things he does every day to add up to big things that will, slowly, turn his health around. There is no quick fix for his condition.

I recommend he read "Recapture Your Health." All of this is spelled out in detail, easy to understand and very clear.

Best wishes,
Jan

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Ron [5412.2287] on July 31, 2008 at 23:45:25:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 12:23:58:

Hi Mark,

Did they check his electrolytes? Sodium, Magnesium, potassium etc?

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Re: HELP! My son's condition -- Archive in dysautonomia.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on August 01, 2008 at 06:46:26:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by North [1848.2761] on July 31, 2008 at 08:50:38:

Thanks, North.

The tendancy to react with dysautonomia, from overwhelming stress effect storage in the hypothalamus, is no more (or less) than a susceptibility to arthritis, diabetes, cancer, hypertension, etc., etc. Since we still cannot do anything about our genes, our only current option is to improve the "expression" of our genes. That means the 3LS for the forseeable future.

To ascribe any genetic component 100% of the "blame" we relegate ourselves to the hopeless, helpless approach which is NOT valid. Current estimations of this ratio is 20% genes and 80% EXPRESSION of those genes.

Hope this helps.

Walt

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Re: HELP! My son's condition SIGH!

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on August 01, 2008 at 07:06:11:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:37:22:

Marc,

Glad to hear that he is structurally OK, according to the tests. How much has he studied the 3LS? I will bet not for a second. He still wants a magic pill.

He could do underwater exercise even if he had no legs!.

If he finds anything that helps earlier than 3-6 months, I hope you will educate us about it.

Walt

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.3349] on August 01, 2008 at 07:09:12:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:40:24:

Marc,

Yup! There may be no more relationship than his fixation on that being significant, though. That is much easier than understanding the long term effect of stress accumulation and dysautonomia but he is not going to deal with this until he has suffered enough.

Walt

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [4708.4824] on August 01, 2008 at 07:40:14:

In Reply to: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 30, 2008 at 11:27:25:

Thanks everyone for your wisdom and advice in this! I do really appreciate it! We're trying with him, and it is difficult. To answer a few other questions posted:

Yes, all electrolytes, serum, etc. levels are fine.
Yes, he can walk for more than ten minutes, but gets very tired and has trouble breathing.

Yesterday he came up to me and said "I will show you what this is like" and pinched my nose and pushed on my thought I couldn't catch my breath! Weird?

Thanks everyone :)

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Trish [296.2857] on August 01, 2008 at 12:36:32:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:37:22:

They tested just the TSH or the full thyroid (T3, T4, etc)?

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Mark Stull [4708.4824] on August 01, 2008 at 17:41:03:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Trish [296.2857] on August 01, 2008 at 12:36:32:

Full thyroid all of it.

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by dd [11114.4786] on August 02, 2008 at 14:08:32:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [3009.4824] on July 31, 2008 at 18:40:24:

It sounds to me that it is very possible that the trauma was released
during the massages. Which, if true, can be very a very good thing in
the end, although a difficult thing to process and correct. The 3LS is
the way to go. He might also want to try acupuncture. This has
helped me a great deal with the same types of issues which have
occured for me because of extensive past physical traumas as well.

There is hope here, if he can get into the mindset of process. And
should it be a trauma release, a stored stress affect, it is completely
reversible. All he has to do is try and remain dedicated. It will
change.

The best thing about this is that it is in his face now, rather than
lurking for more and more years, where more damage could be done.
This is not a bad thing in the end, but a positive healing. It happens
to many of us, in all sorts of ways.

Hope he can deal with it soon. The more frustration he adds to the
pot, the more he will have to process. Good luck!!

dd

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Re: HELP! My son's condition

Posted by Trish [296.2857] on August 04, 2008 at 08:30:43:

In Reply to: Re: HELP! My son's condition posted by Mark Stull [4708.4824] on August 01, 2008 at 17:41:03:

Then I'm with Walt on the dysautonomia. When I was having my SR certified by a biofeedback person, we were discussing a friend of mine, who fell off a ladder 12 feet onto his head and she told me that people who suffer such a shock like that from a fall have a lot of damage done to their psyche, too. Maybe if you looked into biofeedback or also, the Alexander Technique or Feldenkrais (google all of this). Keep searching for the answer and you'll find it. Good luck.

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