Dysautonomia historical posts May 1998

Sternum pain

Posted by Anat Shem-or on May 17, 1998 at 03:24:24:

I have been suffering for two weeks now from a swelling over the sternum. Itís a bit red but mostly swollen and very painful to the touch. Cretin movements , such as lifting things also cause apin.
X-ray was O.K. Blood test was O.K. as well. I received an untiinflamntory pills for ten days. Itís been 5 days and I think itís a little better but not as much as I expected. My Doc. says itís probably an infection of the sternum bone.
Any way, I am worried. Any ideas? could it be muscle related?
Thank you

Re: Sternum pain

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 19, 1998 at 10:17:27:

In Reply to: Sternum pain posted by Anat Shem-or on May 17, 1998 at 03:24:24:

Dear Anat,

This is at least related to (if not directly caused by) a common condition called costochondritis. The ONLY cause for this is an unconscious contraction of all the intercostal muscles which forces the rib joints to grind into their sockets with the sternum (with each & every breath--sort of like trying to run a marathon with a leg cramp) and gives the individual a flare up of inflammation like arthritis.

This is always due to a total body "bracing" that has been discussed MANY times right here on this bb for years.

Anti inflammatory drugs frequently help but are just masking the symptoms. Hot compresses for 20 minutes several times a day would also help the symptoms but would actually do something for the muscle tension

The main thing is that this is a gentle message from your bodymind that you need to get rid of the stress-effect storage in your hypothalamus that is causing this. If you do not hear THIS message, the next one will have to be louder (more serious). If you are succressful in getting rid of the message (your symptoms) you will just have been successful in putting off this till things get worse.

Rolfing would resolve this with one 90 minute, deep, fascial massage. However, even that would just be getting rid of the symptoms for a year or so. Also, remember, even though the Rolfing would get rid of the "smoking gun" of your costochondritis, you would still have to clear up the inflammation (anti-inflammatories & heat) but that would only take a few days IF the muscle tension was temporarily gone from the Rolfing.

Once you are ready to learn what the message is, & what you can do about it, write again. The above is just a way to get rid of your present symptoms.


Nick's tic disorder

Posted by Kyra on May 20, 1998 at 13:09:58:

Dear Walt and everyone,

Nick, my 6 1/2 year old, was just diagnosed with a nonspecific tic disorder, based on jerky repetitive movements when excited and general spaciness. The pediatric neurologist, who says she despises most conventional docs (a good sign), said that he could be treated with clonidine if he started having social problems or his grades were deteriorating, but that she's against needless medication and doesn't want to go that route. Another check in the plus column for the neurologist. Given that clonidine is a blood pressure drug and my kid has a BP of 110/70, and I despise allopathic bandaids unless unavoidable, I don't want to go that route either. I've been taking Nick to the chiropractor regularly and have just begun getting him rolfed. The rolfer also is doing craniosacral work on him. Given his history of severe birth trauma (and thanks Doc Dave for all your previous references on that score), tic disorder or not, it sounds like severe dysautonomia to me, and I want to nip it in the bud. His neurological workup is normal. The neurol. doesn't see any reason for him to have brain scan or get an EEG. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what to try, and in particular, supplements that might be helpful? I just read an article on vitamin E for tardive dyskinesia, and figured what the heck, might as well give 400 IU daily a try, but after only 2 doses there aren't any apparent benefits. I'm weaning him onto a whole foods diet and am massaging him and attempting to teach him meditation or at least stretching or sitting still with his eyes closed regularly once a day. My husband just started taking him to aikido class to try and get his energy moving more smoothly. Interestingly, the neurologist said that tic disorders are now related to basal ganglia dysfunction and seem to be related to obsessive-compulsive disorder. Any ideas, guys? Thanks for your help!

Namaste', Kyra

P.S. Walt, your post on the AAFP is scarier than hell! And vitamin C over 100 mg by prescription? These idiots are unbelievable...

Re: Nick's tic disorder

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 22, 1998 at 11:13:26:

In Reply to: Nick's tic disorder posted by Kyra on May 20, 1998 at 13:09:58:

Dear Kyra,

This is NOT primarliy dysautonomia. It IS a congenital susceptibility to micronutrient imbalance in the brain.

A perfect whole foods diet is the first place to start but with the soil depletion of these micronutrients, that will not be enough. The reason I put that first is that there still are a lot fo them that we have not yet proven to fit into this mechanism so the whole foods are the only way to get eveh traces of them--they are not yet available as supplements (other than in things like "Juice Plus"). Organic whole foods would the best at least till he is normal for a year or so-----partly because the chemicals in commercial food directly interferes with the normal micrometabolism of these micronutrients and partly because organic foods tend to have more of these as yet unknown substances in them.

There are a lot of references in the back of my book about the chapter about "Mood, Mind, Memory & Behavior". They will tell you more. ALSO, you will want to rule out LGS & parasitosis since they, too, will put great burdens onto the brain chemistry.

I would only use mineral salt. I would use a predigested essential amino acid supplement (use about 1/10 of the recommended adult dose. Not because they would hurt him but because more will likely not help & you need to put your money where it does the most good. The essential oils on the home page (about 1/3 the adult dose, would also specifically help this kind of brain chemical imbalance.

If you are interested in how these micronutrients improve the efficiency of the brain chemistry, read up on the principle of "mass action". I don't know how to spell the guy's name that is attached to it but it sounds something like "Lechakaleitis Principle of Mass Action". EVERYONE needs more or less "substrate" to push any chemical reaction in the direction it must go for most effective action. If you find the correct spelling let me know. Your son just has a different pattern than most of us.

I certainly would keep up the structural work since that will magnify the beneficial effect of the "mass action" approach. There is a reference in the back of my book about "Meditating with Children" that would help with this.

Once he is normal, you need to keep up his program for at least a year or so. Then, you can start reducing the stuff he is taking, one by one, at about 3 month intervals until he is either off everything OR some of his symptoms come back. THEN you would know that you took him off too much. He may need to do some of this all his life to stay normal.

Namaste` Walt

P.S. If you have any questions about the references relating to that chapter, write again.

Re: Costochonditis

Posted by Lori Ginsberg on May 25, 1998 at 21:35:33:

Dear Dr. Stoll:

I have an almost 10 year old daughter who was diagnosed 8 months ago with costochondritis. She also has a very mild case of osteogenesis imperfecta. When she was 9 months old she broke her right femur and then one month later she broke her left femur. Both fractures occured with very minimal trauma. Since this time she has not broken again and has been extremely healthy until 8 months ago when she started having severe chest and rib pains. The pain has spread to include her arms, back neck, jaw, knees and feet. She does not have this widespread pain all of the time, but she does have some degree of chest pains and headache all of the time. She can go for several days or even a week with just mild chest pains and a headache and then for no reason be in a flare-up with pain all over for days. She is supposed to see a specialist in OI to see if the two problems are related. The referal is taking forever (almost 4 weeks now). From what I have read on the internet, her symptoms are very similar to those of fibromyalgia. It has been difficult to get information on fibromyalgia in children. What can you tell me? She has been checked for lyme disease and all three tests have come back negative. She has seen a rheumatologist and she has ruled out arthritis, however that was almost six months ago and now she has many more symptoms. What do you think? What questions should I ask her doctors? What can I do to help her when she is in pain?
Thank you for your help.

Lori Ginsberg

Re: Costochonditis

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 27, 1998 at 08:59:29:

In Reply to: Re: Costochonditis posted by Lori Ginsberg on May 25, 1998 at 21:35:33:

Dear Lori,

Fortunately, she is still of an age where you may be able to get her to practice skilled relaxation at least twice a day for 20 minutes (not counting any done within 20 minutes of retiring). See "Meditating With Children" by Deborah Rozman, published by the University of the Trees Press (many new editions in the past 20 years).

You are listing the eventual complications of "bracing" which we have discussed so many times right here on this BB.

Chiropractic, Rolfing and/or massage would give her temporary relief and that relief might help you to get her to put in the effort to learn this skill.

Use the link: archives & read what you can find about these subjects. Also read the references as it is essential that you know how this is all connected since you are not likely to get anything from the conventional medical monopoly except treatment of symptoms.

THEN, if you still have questions, write again.



Posted by Barbara on May 31, 1998 at 13:00:38:

Ever since i rode on a "motion ride"-a very violent tossing-you-back-and-forth kinda thing (about 6 weeks ago), i have been almost constantly nauseous. Before, i rarely got car sick...now i can't drive 3 blocks without getting ill. i also lose my balance very easily. if i lean in one direction, i am likely to keep going.
My Doc said i had damaged some 'hairs' in my inner ear and i have Labrynthitis....however, everything i can find on Labrynthitis defines it as dizziness.......i am not, and have never been dizzy, tho. Can anyone out there tell me more?How long does it last? etc etc thanks

scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by lee on May 18, 1998 at 21:37:48:

I have been diagnosed w/ CREST syndrome, a form of scleroderma. The symptoms I have are Raynauds syndrome and Esophageal dysfunction (loss of voice, reflux). What kind of MD deals w/ this? what is the usual/allopathic approach, and what are the alternatives to those? Any insight, advice or information you can provide would be most appreciated. I vlaue your bulletin board. Thank you.

Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 20, 1998 at 12:49:54:

In Reply to: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by lee on May 18, 1998 at 21:37:48:

Dear lee,

You have multiple system involvement of the basic mechanism (severe stress-effect storage in the hypothalamus) and are going to have to approach this from each system for initial relief. However, in the long run, only by becoming a serious student of wellness will you stop this serious erosion of your health. You cannot afford to procrastinate with learning enough about your causes that you can start reversing them.

The quickest way for you to start is by reading a copy of my book (link on this page) and also reading a copy of one of the books referenced in the back: "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier. You will find yourself in both. IMMEDIATELY start the skilled relaxation described in both! That is the only thing yet known that will discharge the hypothalamic overload.

Next, I would go to the veterinarian or healthfood store & get a jar of DMSO. This is a specific for scleroderma & should be used at least twice a day till relief & then at least once a day till your wellness program has been working for about 6 months. It usually comes in more than 90% concentration. The only complication you can have by using this is that your breath will smell like oysters and concentrations of over 50% can (rarely) cause skin irritation. I just dilute it with sterile water to the 50% dilution if the higher concentrations cause irritation.

Go to the library & read up on this stuff or ask your vet about it.

Do you smoke? Even though most Raynaud's is caused by this hypothalamic thing, if they smoke it cannot be stopped so long as they do.

Use the GRJ for your reflux. At least you can get rid of that annoyance right away.

Once you have the above under your belt, if you still have questions, write again.


Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by Kaye on May 20, 1998 at 16:01:37:

In Reply to: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by lee on May 18, 1998 at 21:37:48:

Is Raynaud's syndrome in the whole hands and feet (toes and bottoms) the same thing? I use to get rid of it when the temps rose but now it can be 65 and I still lose the blood supple to them. Where does Raynaud's end and scleroderma begin? I have FMS, Chem Senitivities, TMJ, and Raynauds. Thank you.

Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by lee on May 20, 1998 at 22:23:09:

In Reply to: Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by Kaye on May 20, 1998 at 16:01:37:

what is FMS?

Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by lee on May 20, 1998 at 22:23:36:

In Reply to: Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by Kaye on May 20, 1998 at 16:01:37:

what is FMS? and I have TMJ, too.


Posted by Kaye on May 21, 1998 at 09:30:11:

In Reply to: Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by lee on May 20, 1998 at 22:23:09:

FMS is fibromyalgia syndrome or Dr Stoll calls it fibromyositis. It encompasses all sorts of symtoms. My personal opinion is that it is brought on by exposures in the environment as is Raynauds etc. Regards Kaye

Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 22, 1998 at 12:18:19:

In Reply to: Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by Kaye on May 20, 1998 at 16:01:37:

Dear Kaye & Lee,

Raynaud's is but an extension of the commonly noted cold hands & feet of the chronically stressed person----a dead givaway for dusautonomia. This is a vascular phenomenon. The reason why it cannot be cleared up in the smoker is NOT that it is CAUSED by smoking but that, once the control is lost to this extent the AGGRAVATION of the nicotine is too much to overcome.

The fibromyalgia (or, if you will, fibromyositis) is a skeletal muscle phenonenon that is caused by the muscular bracing portion of the fight or flight storage in the hypothalamus that I have been discussing for so many years on this BB. The dysautonomia is the same exaustion but of the autonomic nervous system portion of the same cause.

The treatment is the same for both: the regular practice of effective skilled relaxation at least twice a day for 20 minutes (not counting those done within 2 hours of retiring).

The causative mechanisms for ALL these conditions are the same. Which thing the individual comes down with depends upon their personal genetic susceptibilities NOT the causes.

Both of you need to read 2 references (in this order): "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier and my book (link on this page).

THEN, if you still have questions, write again.


Thank you Dr. Stoll

Posted by Kaye on May 22, 1998 at 12:44:18:

In Reply to: Re: scleroderma/CREST syndrome posted by Walt Stoll on May 22, 1998 at 12:18:19:

Dear Dr. Stoll,

Thank you, I am in the process of getting the reading material and look forward to applying the information. One note, I have never smoked. I hope that means I can recover from my chronic illness(es) faster. Best Regards, Kaye

Dr. Stall - a question

Posted by ANAT SHEM-OR on May 24, 1998 at 05:56:36:

Further to my previous post re sternum pain, I would appreciate your opinion on the following:
I suffer from asthma and take on a regular basis Serevent, budicort and flonase . It usually keeps me O.K. and I donít get any attacks. However lately I have been having this pain and swelling on the sternum plus I feel like I am just about to catch a cold most of the time. You know, this pain when I take a deep breath and my throat hurts on and off for weeks already for a few hours at a time and than it goes away. My right lung is tender to the touch. Like I said, my blood and Urine tests are O.K. My x-ray showed some infection on the low end of both lungs which my Doc. attributes to the Asthma. I am not wheezing but than, I never do.
I think it all started after the flu I had on February It took me 3 weeks to get over it.
I donít know if its relevant but I also been having terrible pains just like a urine tract infection on the bladder and also along the sides (urine canal ?)
but my urine tests are negative. This has also been going on for weeks already.
Off course the antiinflemantory pills I took for 10 days aggravated my stomach so itís all together...
I am very interested to know what you think about this
Thank you

Re: Dr. Stall - a question

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 26, 1998 at 09:29:34:

In Reply to: Dr. Stall - a question posted by ANAT SHEM-OR on May 24, 1998 at 05:56:36:

Dear Anat,

Until you read "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier, you have NO CHANCE or understanding how this all fits together OR what to do about it. Once you understand that, you will be ready to read MY bok which will give you the total picture of how to reverse this the easiest way.

ALL of us would like a magic pill to do away with the problems you have. If I had one I would take it myself. However, this is something YOU have to understand and nothing you can take will resolve it.


Re: Dr. Stall - a question

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on May 26, 1998 at 18:33:20:

In Reply to: Dr. Stall - a question posted by ANAT SHEM-OR on May 24, 1998 at 05:56:36:

Considering the correlation between asthma, upper thoracic subluxations, and sternal pain I wouldn't hesitate to suggest you go and get checked out by a chiropractor. Below is a little info regarding asthma and chiropractic. You may also find benefits with the chronic infections you seem to have. Best Wishes.

Among parents of asthmatic children who had received chiropractic treatment, 92% considered this treatment beneficial. Alternative treatment was more frequent among children from the higher social classes. A tendency was observed towards less satisfaction with medical treatment, information and general guidance concerning the illness among families who sought alternative treatment.
Vange B; Contact between preschool children with chronic diseases and the authorized health services and forms of alternative therapy. Ugeskr
Laeger 1989; 151(28):1815-8

76.5% of patients with bronchial asthma said they benefited from chiropractic treatment. Peak flow rate and vital capacity increased after the third treatment.
Hviid C; A Comparison Of The Effects Of Chiropractic Treatment On Respiratory Function In Patients With Respiratory Distress Symptoms And
Patients Without. Bull Eur Chiro Union 1978; 26: 17-34

Manipulation Helps Patient-Rated Astham Severity

The purpose of this randomized patient- and observer-blinded cross-over trial was to evaluate the efficacy of chiropractic treatment in the management of chronic asthma when combined with pharmaceutical maintenance therapy. The trial was conducted at the National University Hospital's Out-patient Clinic in Copenhagen, Denmark. Thirty-one patients aged 18-44 years participated, all
suffering from chronic asthma controlled by bronchodilators and/or inhaled steroids. Patients, or who had received chiropractic treatment for asthma within the last 5 years, who received oral steroids and immunotherapy, were not eligible. Patients were randomized to receive either active chiropractic spinal manipulative treatment or sham chiropractic spinal manipulative treatment twice
weekly for 4 weeks, and then crossed over to the alternative treatment for another 4 weeks. Both phases were preceded and followed by a 2-week period without chiropractic treatment. The main outcome measurements were forced expiratory volume in the first second (FEV1), forced vital capacity (FVC), daily use of inhaled bronchodilators, patient-rated asthma severity and
non-specific bronchial reactivity (n-BR). Using the cross-over analysis, no clinically important or statistically significant differences were found between the active and sham chiropractic interventions on any of the main or secondary outcome measures. Objective lung function did not change during the study, but over the course of the study, non-specific bronchial hyperreactivity (n-BR) improved by 36% (P = 0.01) and patient-rated asthma severity decreased by 34% (P = 0.0002) compared with the baseline values.

Nielsen NH, Bronfort G, Bendix T, Madsen F, Weeke B. Chronic asthma and chiropractic spinal manipulation: a randomized clinical trial.Clin
Exp Allergy 25 (1): 80-88 (1995)

Re: Dr. Stall - a question

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 28, 1998 at 11:23:46:

In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stall - a question posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on May 26, 1998 at 18:33:20:

Dear Doc Dave,

I hope everyone that ever comes to this BB will read everything you ever put here.


Re: Dr. Stall - a question

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on May 29, 1998 at 10:08:56:

In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stall - a question posted by Walt Stoll on May 28, 1998 at 11:23:46:

Thank You.

I can scarcely think of a nicer compliment.


1998: Feb Mar Apr May

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