Earache archives

Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by JoAnna on December 11, 1998 at 03:26:40:

In Reply to: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on December 08, 1998 at 17:16:16:


I had several ear infections as a child, and after recalling a rather painful one last year...the antibiotics seemed to help as did some eardrops that were prescribed. This has been the only adult ear infection I have had, but within a few days it seemed gone and releif was much quicker...though I did develop a yeast infection a few weeks after taking the antibiotics (to be honest here), but I would rather deal with that then an ear infection. It is difficult to believe this was a placebo effect, and even if it is it still made the ear infection go away...so for me, in my opinion I'd rather take the "placebo" antibiotics and get rid of the ear infection timely, than simply do nothing and live with an ear infection. The infection never reoccured... and if I get an ear infection again...I hope there will continue to be a Dr. to prescribe me some antibiotics...because as I said, they have always worked here in the sense that it goes away! I rarely take medicine or see the doctors, but I don't mind them when something is beyond what I know what to do. Take care to all, JoAnna


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Better than antibiotics

Posted by Linda J. on December 11, 1998 at 06:30:06:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by JoAnna on December 11, 1998 at 03:26:40:

Hi JoAnna,

I have had chronic ear infections for years. They are caused by a fungus. Mix equal parts white vinegar with alcohol and put a few drops in your ears a few times a day and especially before you go to bed at night. It really works because it kills the fungus.

Linda J.


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Sounds good for outer ear infections

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on December 11, 1998 at 10:28:21:

In Reply to: Better than antibiotics posted by Linda J. on December 11, 1998 at 06:30:06:

What you describe sounds good for outer ear infections, such as swimmer's ear.

But it does not seem to me it that would do much/anything for the inner ear infections related to blocked eustation tube drainage that Walt described.

Unless you perhaps used a high pressure sprayer! :-) Don't try this at home, we're professionals! What me HEAR???



Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 12, 1998 at 10:21:30:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by JoAnna on December 11, 1998 at 03:26:40:

Dear JoAnna,

It really IS hard to accept "scientific findings" if they go against our cherished illusions, isn't it?

There is NO DOUBT that antibiotics do nothing for ear infections. Why not take a placebo that has no potential for harm (Even you had a yeast infection from what you took.)? Your yeast infection is among the least dangerous complications from antibiotics one can have. This doesn't even consider the long term risks we are now reading about in newspapers every month.

You fit the following quote so perfectly that I could not resist posting it again here:

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."

----------------Tolstoy

It would behoove you to read up on what is known about the placebo effect (stuff published within the past 2 years) before using antibiotics for non-indicated conditions again. You see, there ARE proper places for antibiotics. It just turns out that otitis media is not one of them---and neither is prophylactic use with dental procedures in patients with heart valve lesions.

Since you cannot trust yor doctor to protect you from these bad decisions (see Tolstoy) it is up to you to protect yourself!

Walt



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Re: Better than antibiotics

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 12, 1998 at 10:57:32:

In Reply to: Better than antibiotics posted by Linda J. on December 11, 1998 at 06:30:06:

Dear Linda,

You are describing external otitis. So far, this discussion has been about otitis media which is a TOTALLY different thing.

By the way, a recurrent fungus otitis externa (if not related to swimming) is almost always due to recurrent eczema of the ear canal. THAT is resolvable.

Walt




Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by JoAnna on December 14, 1998 at 02:23:27:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by Walt Stoll on December 12, 1998 at 10:21:30:


I am not so narrow minded as you might think, Dr. Stoll. I will also look up the affects of antibiotics, and have heard a lot about what is going on these days with them (concerning the mutations of bacteria, ect. and the declined affect). I think though, that if I knew something was a placebo, it wouldn't work. So, where do I find a doctor who will prescribe a placebo and lead me to believe it is the real thing? Also, if antibiotics don't work what does??? Perhaps, if some of us found something safer and just as helpful...we could accept and say so long to antibiotics for ear infections. It's just that ear infections usually do hurt, and no one wants to walk around with one longer than they have to. Thanks, JoAnna


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Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 15, 1998 at 08:28:03:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by JoAnna on December 14, 1998 at 02:23:27:

Dear JoAnna,

I am not going to do your thinking for you.

It seems that you still don't believe that antibiotics do NOTHING for otitis media. I thought you were coming from a scientific background.

We ALL would wish that regular MDs could do SOMETHING for otitis media (especially MDs don't like to hear that what they have been doing is worthless).

As my dad always used to tell me: "If wishes were horses, beggers would ride!"

Contact me again in about 10 years when everyone knows.

Walt




Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 15, 1998 at 13:47:29:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by JoAnna on December 14, 1998 at 02:23:27:

I don't think anyone considers your view narrow minded at all. I think it falls completely into the realm of logical when measured by your exposure. Look at the facts. You have had experience with "smart" doctors who gave you antibiotics and you felt better. Seems to me that it makes sense that you would feel that the antibiotics helped. What we are saying, and the rest of scientific medicine(for once), is that the effects are NOT due to the antibiotic.

As for things that help, look at my 12/7 post and read what Dr. Stoll had to say about Dairy, CRS, and LGS. These things are much safer and infinitely more effective but the make NO money for the pharmaceutical companies and little money for the medical profession as a whole.

If science would spend the time and money to learn about what is different between children who do and who don't have ear infections, what safe and effective nutritional, emotional, and physical therapies have to offer, and stop dumping money into drugs that do nothing at getting to the cause of the susceptibility of the child we would have some answers that every doctor would be able to relay to patients. (now that's a run-on sencetence) Unfortunately the $60,000,000,000 profit margin that pharmaceutical companies enjoy has a large portion made up of ineffective, but widely accepted, drug therapies and they are in no hurry to change the minds of doctors or patients.

Until insurance companies stop reimbursing for antibiotic/ear infection treatements there won't be any real resistance from the average MD to explain and present data for parents. Even when this does finally happen there will be NO effort to educate people about the nutritional, dietary, and chiropractic solutions to these problems. Things that don't make money for the MD in front of you, or the pharmaceutical company behind him/her, have an extremely hard time making their way to the "conventional medicine" status.


"In 1992, infections caused by RESISTANT BACTERIA killed 19,000 U.S. hospital patients and contributed to the deaths of 58,000 more."
NEWSWEEK, March 28, 1994

"Antibiotic therapy is not an effective treatment against otitis media and rates of recurrent infections are significantly higher in children who have been treated with antibiotics."
Journal of the American Medical Association, Dec. 18, 1991

"Doctors of the future will give no medicine but will interest their patients in the care of the human frame, in diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease."
Thomas Edison



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Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by Judy on December 16, 1998 at 14:09:18:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 15, 1998 at 13:47:29:

When a child is crying with fever and earache and later ruptured eardrum. What do you do . I know preventive is best but when the infection occurs how do we treat it.


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Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much?

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 16, 1998 at 18:45:18:

In Reply to: Re: So why do antibiotics seem to help so much? posted by Judy on December 16, 1998 at 14:09:18:

If it were my child(meaning that this is not advice as to what you should do) If the eardrum has ruptured I would do the same thing as for a child who has fallen and broken an arm. Or has a sore throat. I'd feel sad, try and comfort them, and wish it hadn't come to that. I would try and speak out to others about the importance of prevention.

If we're talking about a child who's ear hasn't ruptured(even if it had I suppose) yet I would try the things Dr. Stoll and I both mentioned regarding diet and chiropractic.

I understand the point of your question and the dilemma that it leads to. Unfortunately, like many ailments, these things do need to run their course but you can do things to increase the vitality of the child and reduce the causes of the infection.

What I am sure not to do to my child is inject them with antibiotics. There is an obvious tendency to try it just in case it works but knowing what I do about the indiscriminate use of antibiotics and what a serious problem that has created with "super bugs" I still wouldn't do it. Example: 1975 almost all cases of gonorrhea is treatable with penicillin. Today 90% of all cases in the Tailand and the Phillipines are resistant. 50% in the US.

PLUS, antibiotics have been shown to significantly increase recurrence of ear infection.

I would definetly find out about homeopathic remedies for otitis media!

Within a prospective group study of five practicing otorhinolaryngologists, conventional therapy of acute otitis media in children
was compared with homeopathic treatments. Group A (103 children) was primarily treated with homeopathic single remedies.
Group B (28 children) was treated by decongestant nose-drops, antibiotics, secretolytics and/or antipyretics. Comparisons
were done by symptoms, physical findings, and duration of therapy and number of relapses. The children of the study were
between 1 and 11 years of age. The median duration of pain in group A was 2 days and in group B 3 days. Median therapy in
group A lasted 4 days and in group B 10 days. Antibiotics were given over a period of 8-10 days, while homeopathic
treatments were stopped after healing. In group A 70.7% of the patients were free of relapses within 1 years and 29.3% had a
maximum of three relapses. Group B had 56.5% without relapses and 43.5% a maximum of six relapses. Of 103 subjects 98
(95.1%) responded solely to homeopathic treatments. No side effects of treatment were found.
[Friese KH; Kruse S; Moeller H; Acute otitis media in children. Comparison between conventional and homeopathic therapy. HNO 1996; 44(8):462-6 / Medline ID: 96398163]

I'm hoping to not be in the unfortunate situation with proper preventitive measures and close atention to musculoskeletal function.


Two hundred pediatricians and two hundred chiropractors that were selected were surveyed to determine what, if any,
differences were to be found in the health status of their respective children as raised under the different health care models.
The 'chiropractic' children showed a 69% otitis media free response, while the 'medical' children only had a 20% otitis media
free response.
[van Breda WM; van Breda JM. A comparative study of the health status of children raised under the health care models of chiropractic and allopathic medicine. J Chiro Res
1989; 5:101-3 / Mantis ID: 10048]

93% of all episodes of otitis media treated with chiropractic care improved, 75% in 10 days or fewer and 43% with only one
or two treatments. This study's data indicates that limitation of medical intervention and the addition of chiropractic care may
decrease the symptoms of ear infection in young children.
[Froehle RM; Ear infection: a retrospective study examining improvement from chiropractic care and analyzing for influencing factors. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 1996;
19(3):169-77 / Medline ID: 96294956]



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