|
[ Energy Healing Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |
I am looking into buying a cold laser for pain. I am wondering if anyone out there has knowledge about the technology. There is very little info out there to explain what should be considered when buying. Each laser seller is telling me theirs is the best, but without the basic knowledge, I can't figure out what I need. I'm going to post some questions, and if anyone can help, I'd be grateful!!!
these are the problems that I am dealing with: Carpal and tarsal tunnel, neck and spine pain, TMJ, bursitis in my hip, shoulder pain, etc. I also have fibromyalgia pain everywhere, as well as interstitial cystitis (bladder), but I have not seen these problems discussed anywhere in connection to laser. I'm most interested in helping the bone and joint problems though.
How many watts of power is necessary for a laser to be effective? Does peak power matter more or average power?
Does a unit need to be a plug in to have good, consistent power or will battery operated work?
How do I know what NM to get? 635, in the 800's or 900's?
Is a line beam good, or do I want to stick with a normal beam?
What do I need to look for with the pulsing?
If I'm treating large areas like the inside of my ankle, my neck, etc. how many laser diodes do I need?
Is it better to get laser combined with led? Or is it better to just get laser alone?
Does it matter what class a laser is?
And last - are there any other questions I should be asking? What it comes down to is - if you were me, what laser would you buy?
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hi Andrea,
Have you benefitted at all from any laser treatments?
If not, save your money... besides, you might be looked at as if you were going to point it at a passing plane. :?(
IC and RA can be the result of an untreated infection.
Have you pursued this route? What is seen in your blood tests?
Bone pain can be due to trauma which results in osteoporosis.
Have you ever had a Dexa Bone Scan of the painful areas to
look for such bone loss?
Were you ever in a car accident after which your bone pains began? Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy also responds to the
bone strenthening meds below.
Osteoporosis can be treated with bisphosphonates auch as
Intravenous pamindronate, nasal calcitonin and a much slower
fosamax. If you want rapid relief, intravenous is the
quickest, often taking only a few infusions over a month or
so.
The laser is a nice toy if you want to amuse your cat.
Ron
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hi again! Have you looked at your diet and stress levels before you invest in a laser? You could be eating the wrong foods, be allergic to certain foods or have leaky gut or candida. These things could account for some of the symptoms you are describing such as the fibro anddd the IC. Doing SR would also help.
If you've heard all this before, I apologize. Just some thoughts.
Naya
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hello Andrea,
Is there a good acupuncturist in your area, trained in Chinese medicine? If so, and you haven't tried expert acupuncture, prepare for a long haul and go do it. I had similar problems (though less widespread) and to the astonishment of sports specialists etc am completely cured. It took 18 months of acupuncture, once or twice a week. While I will always have to be careful, my shoulder is nearly as strong as ever on overhead tasks.
I ALSO de-acidified my constitution through an alkalising diet. the combination worked spectacularly well.
Jane
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Jane (1) [1475.4] on January 15, 2005 at 22:45:23:
Thanks Jane, but accupuncture did nothing for me, though I went to several very experienced practitioners over several years. I am working on an alkalizing diet though. Have a great night.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Naya [2016.14] on January 15, 2005 at 22:18:09:
Thanks for responding Naya, yes I am working steadily on these things. I want the laser primarily for some of the structural things, and to help me get to a point where I can exercise and also chew raw veggies (TMJ).
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Ron [205.1671] on January 15, 2005 at 21:47:11:
Clearly you don't like laser. Could you explain why? It appears that it does very well in studies. It seems to me that folks are getting great relief for things like carpal tunnel, tmj, back pain, etc.
My blood work looks normal. I did not have an accident. My bone scans are normal, though I had a brief period that it seemed I was losing bone density. I changed some things and it was normal next time.
I am working on possible infections, regardless of the normal tests by using various alternative routes. This is taking time.
I see a lot of evidence that the laser can be very helpful with my particular needs. If you have some research or solid info that says that this is only good as a toy to play with your cat, please share it.
Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 23:24:36:
Hi Andrea,
If a cold laser actually warms things up, it might be of as much bebefit to RA as paraffin baths, diathermy or infra-red
heat.
If there is active inflammation, the heat can do more harm than good. Cold might actually be better. There is no way that a bright light can be COLD if it illuminates what it falls on.
The terminology of "cold" only means that it will not cut
or damage tissue.
As I said before, If you have had success with a few treatments and want to do it yourself, go ahead, but
remember that you might need to get a cat.
Buyer beware.
Do you think that you can make money with this appliance?
Ron
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Ron [205.1671] on January 16, 2005 at 00:09:12:
Concerning your comment about money, are you implying that I'm trying to earn money using or selling these? I can't see where you came up with that. As I said in my first post, I'm trying to become an educated consumer so I can purchase a laser for personal use in my home.
Concerning your "cold laser" comments, I would say that there is a lot more to it than you are making it out to be. I would be careful not to discourage folks from trying something that could be helpful. Especially since even with my knowledge limitations, I can see that you do not appear to have studied the issue in any depth.
Many mainstream and alternative doctors, PT's and chiros are starting to use this in their practices and are finding it very effective, from what I've read and heard first hand. There have also been a lot of studies on cold laser that are out there for folks to read.
Anyone interested should just decide for themselves - do a google search on cold laser to see how it works, what it does to the body, what it's being used for, and the studies and reports on it's effectiveness. It's new in the states, but it's something that has been used widely and successfully in Europe for many years. It has only just received FDA approval in this country, so it's relatively new for us Americans. For us folks who like to use valid alternative medicine as much as possible, rather than drugs and surgery, this may be a helpful alternative while we work on our overall health.
I'm working on determining if it's going to be good for me. I have done some research and now I am trying it right now in a chiropractic office, and my first treatment brought relief. I can't wait for my second.
Ron, Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you are coming off as accusatory and rather rude. As I am just seeking help and info like everyone else on this board, and not looking to have empty arguments, I would rather not discuss this with you any further. Thanks.
I would be grateful to hear from anyone has some actual experience, knowledge & info on the negative or positive side. I would love to get answers to my questions in my first post if anyone has that knowledge. I would also love to hear from Dr. Stoll if he has any information or opinions on cold laser.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 23:16:44:
Hi again! I'm working on a lot of the same problems you are experiencing. Don't pay any attention to Ron. He gets paid to be rude. lol
I just remembered that my chiropractor, whom I haven't seen in a while, uses laser on his patients for various ailments. I don't know what kind of laser it is, though. I know that a lot of people swear by the success they've had with it in his office. I'm going to be stopping by there soon for some supplements and can ask about it and let you know.
I know what you mean about the exercise. No experience with TMJ, though. Do you think the carpal tunnel is from overusing a computer mouse?
I wish you the best and will let you know if I learn anything about the laser.
Naya
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 16, 2005 at 01:05:53:
Hi Andrea,
How many times do I have to say, "If you get benefit from
such treatments done for you by somone else.. Go ahead and buy one."
I did speak to another who admitted that it might supplement her income... sort of like doing manicures or hairdressing for
others.
When you stated that accupuncture did not seem to help,
I surmised that the laser would help even less.
Good luck.
Ron
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Naya [2016.14] on January 16, 2005 at 01:19:23:
Hi Naya,
That was rude! I work for peanuts. (actually peanut shells) :)
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hi Andrea,
Have you ever been tested for Lyme Disease?
Ron
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hi Andrea,
I'm not really able to answer your questions, but I do have a little experience with one of the hand-held laser units. I think that was probably similar to what you are asking about. I actually rented it for a couple of weeks from my alternative/complementary vet to use on my cat (she had chronic yeast infections in her ears from food allergies that we were trying to clear up), so of course I used it on everything and everyone else I could find. My vet called it a soft laser.
Anyway, I have fibromyalgia too, so a lot of muscle & connective tissue pain, as well as chronic spinal misalignments in the neck and low back, knee and ankle pain from old injuries/sprains, pain in SI joints, and trochanteric bursitis in both hips, for the major stuff :) I think I also used it on some rashes or other skin things. I think I used it about every day, several times, and I did not have much in the way of long-term relief, although there was some let-up in the short-term--maybe for a couple hours or a day. The device I had had about 7 settings, I think, and instructions on which setting to use for bone, joint, skin surface, deeper in the skin, etc. My mother had broken her hip, so I also used it on her fracture site a few times, but of course I have no way of knowing whether or not it helped that. It did heal perfectly.
The unit I used had rechargeable batteries, I think, and it could also be used plugged in. For the most versatility, I think you would have to be able to use it without a plugged-in cord limiting your movements. It did seem to run out of juice fairly quickly, but this was 3 years ago, so they probably make better units and batteries now, plus it got a lot of use in the clinic and as a rental. This one only had one light, so you could only do work on a small area at one time. Seems like there was a limit to how long it should be used in one spot, so I just usually moved it to another area or different part of the target as long as the battery lasted. I had no lack of places to try it out.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I hope you can find more of the information you need. If you try it, I hope you'll let us know how it works for you, which I hope it does.
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Andrea,
Is this the type of therapy you are talking about?
Anodyne Therapy
http://www.anodynetherapy.com/Products.htm
If this is not it, would you post an example of what you're considering.
Thanks, Carol B.
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
If I am not mistaken, laser devices can be quite expensive. You could benefit a lot from LED only based devices. In fact, some have benefited from simply using a powerful flashlight (a spotlight) and a filter (there are places where you can buy plastic film filters with specific frequency characteristics). This has been descussed at a list mostly devoted to colloidal silver. There's a man there who works in a private research center that conducted some experiments in this area, and he has shared a lot of information with other people on that list. You might want to read (search for relevant infor) the list's archives and join the list and ask your questions.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Ron [205.1671] on January 16, 2005 at 01:24:12:
When you stated that accupuncture did not seem to help,
I surmised that the laser would help even less.
These are two very different methods, so why would the latter follow from the former?
Ron, I've read reports directly from someone who has studied (in a research center with a staff who studied various alternative protocols, among other things) infrared LED based technology. It has produces excellent results for various health problems.
BTW, regarding your earlier comment about inflammation and heat: inflammation is always involved with infections, for example, and heat is known to be a great help in such cases.
I recommend that you educate yourself more in this area.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 23:16:44:
TMJ is correctable. What have you done for it?
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Ron [205.1671] on January 16, 2005 at 00:09:12:
Low Level Cold Lasers stimulate photon receptors on the mitochondria of cells to produce more ATP. It actually increases the function and strength of cells. At least so far in research. It's very beneficial in healing. It also seems to have a systemic effect that promotes healing. Again, documented in research.
However, for Andrea, it does nothing to get to the cause of the problem. Everything you mention should be greatly improved through the "three legged stool" mentioned throughout this site. You would save yourself a lot of money and future problems with a laser would not benefit if you tried that first.
As for which laser is the best, I like the Erchonia laser. I just don't like the price.
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Hi, Andrea.
I would put a lot more energy into discharging my bracing since any cold laser would only be of temporary benefits anyhow.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by R. [27.1490] on January 16, 2005 at 06:08:18:
Thanks so much! I'll do that. I am also interested in the silver list itself.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Carol B. [1908.10] on January 16, 2005 at 02:32:51:
I've never seen one that looks like that, but I think so. Another one is here (but not the LED ones, just the laser):
http://www.thorlaser.com/usa/7probes.htm
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by R. [27.1490] on January 16, 2005 at 06:26:36:
EVERYTHING but surgery and cold laser.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Naya [2016.14] on January 16, 2005 at 01:19:23:
Hi Naya, thanks for your encouragement! I would love to know what your chiro says. Actually the wrists are livable most of the time, but it's tarsal tunnel in my ankle that is more tough. It has limited my walking and has been pretty painful.
Have a great day!
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by ChironDave [1460.20] on January 16, 2005 at 07:09:00:
Hi Dave - I looked at the laser, but they don't post prices that I can see. Do you have a sense of the price range? Also what would help me most is to know WHY you like the laser. I really need to understand the elements and what makes for an effective device. I would be grateful for any light you could shed.
Also, concerning the stool, I'm working the program. I've been for some time. However, I can not get regular exercise because of the problems I mentioned. I need some extra help to get the exercise part and to be able to chew raw veggies. Thanks!
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 16, 2005 at 10:08:45:
I think it's about $5000 for the base model and $12000 for the top of the line.
The one thing I like about the Erchonia laser is that you can change the frequency. You can even have it pulse one frequency for X amount of time and then another(i think that's in the dual diode models, can't recall exactly). Some frequencies seem better for certain things and other frequencies for others. The models go up in price as they go up in frequency range capabilities.
Erchonia believes that the 635 nm wavelength is best. Others go for the 800 nm range. I personally don't know one way or the other and have heard good things about both.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 16, 2005 at 09:58:37:
I assume you've done chiropractic adjustments.
I recently attended a 9 day workshop where people were taught a comprehensive self healing system by Norbekov, and there was one woman there who said thay her TMJ went away. I would guess that it was due to exercises that we did for the spine and joints. Could have been due to other things, but I would guess that it was the physical exercises. Perhaps, you haven't found a competent specialist? Maybe yoga would help. It deals with the spine and joints a lot.
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
For about 20 years I have been benefitted using the LLLT of one type or another. Presently I have two portable units for personal use that have rechargable batteries. The cost is under $500 each and they work well. I`ve loaned mine out, and then they decided to buy their own. These were personally patented by an individual, and rather homemade, but practical. A newer variation is in the works, and may be available in a few months. I`m never without mine. To get some idea on how this can help, do a search for "infrared laser therapy" I don`t want to bore with a long list.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by lmd [274.1399] on January 16, 2005 at 17:21:03:
Hi - can you share the place you buy yours from? How can I contact them or do they have a website? Thanks!
In Reply to: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 15, 2005 at 21:00:49:
Why don't you go to a chiropractor and get some adjustments? Healing happens from the inside out. Everyone is always looking to try something that works from the outside in.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on January 16, 2005 at 02:03:30:
Hi again,
I'm not familiar with your story and I don't know what all you've tried, but if you haven't looked into advanced bodywork like deep tissue massage, lymphatic drainage, and Rolfing, you might want to give some of those a whirl. I have gotten a great deal of relief, on the order of weeks or months, from pain, stiffness, limited movement, and dysfunction from a combination of various types of bodywork and integrative chiropractic treatments. Not everyone has a lot of modalities to choose from, but I am fortunate, although I live in a smallish town, to have a lot of choices for alternative practitioners. Skilled relaxation (SR) has also brought me a lot of relief from pain and muscle tension.
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Andrea [2559.1724] on January 16, 2005 at 18:57:09:
The light energy helps your body do a little more to help itself in the healing processes of acute and chronic damages. This website is newer, but he is just getting these manufactures with a few new adjustments.
http://www.sfmcwebsite.com/light_therapy.html#genesis
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by DrB [385.1351] on January 17, 2005 at 16:17:15:
So funny how you put that. Your note assumes I haven't tried that already.
I did that for years, and years, and years... I have not been able to "hold" adjustments, lived in the dr's office and suffered between visits for over 10 years. Thank God I have some freedom now. I Finally found an osteopath that taught me to do some adjustments on myself, and figured out how to do the rest. I ran it by him and he approved all the strategies - wanted to make sure I didn't hurt myself.
I STILL WANT THE LASER as I feel that it will help. Why do people discount something so readily, when for some folks it could be a part of what improves quality of life? What if it could help to enable me to make other forward moves towards health such as exercising? Why not work on the inside and the outside? Why not work on the body, mind and spirit? Why not work on it all?
Thanks for your input.
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by R. [27.1490] on January 16, 2005 at 06:24:03:
I purchased the cheapest cold laser that I could find for my dog about 1 year ago, I also purchased a muscle stim, called a pointer. Each cost a little over $100. It has brought my dog to a point were she can have hydrotherapy again. It worked so well on her that me, my husband and son who were constantly going to the chiro, weekly for over 3 years, are now handling things on our own, with the laser and stim only. We haven't been to the chiro in over 8 months. We also tried Reiki, Deep Tissue Massage,all kinds of stuff. I also suffer from everything that you mentioned except TMJ. We are all doing pretty well on our own now, and whenever it seems like the pain is getting out of control, we change our diet away from carbs, step up on using our stim and laser, and in no time were back . One really big help in the last 3 months has been squeezing 1/2 lemon in 1 cup of warm water every morning to change my PH, suggested by a holistic doc. We also started juicing organic beets, carrots, celery, tomatoes and spinach in the morning, and the enzymes are really helping us all, as we feed the juiced vegees to our dogs. This latter suggestion came from a woman who does auricular therapy, this is where they apply tiny seeds, stuck on tiny pieces of tape to specific reflex points on your ears. Every time I got this done, all of my pain went away immediately. I was supposed to see her for treatment every other week, but my husband lost his job. I got on the internet and did some research and bought an ear chart, and I found out that auricular therapists also use this tiny cold laser that I have in place of seeds on the ears. Guess What? It works!!! I am even able to balance my hormones this way, so no more compounded hormones for me, also helps with headaches, backaches, neckaches, high blood pressure,weightloss etc. etc. I also found out that you can use the stim on your ears also, it works, too. I also learned how to do muscle testing( kiniesiology) from my chiro, so now I can ask my body questions about what foods are good and bad for me at a specific time or if someone is trying to sell me a supplement that they say will absolutely work, I just muscle test, and my body tells me "yes" or "no". I also found that this also helps when I go food shopping, I'm able to find out if foods are overly sprayed with pesticides, or have too many preservatives, without even reading the labels. Mostly i only buy from the fresh meats and vegees isles, but sometimes I stray. I hope that anything that I've said here today helps you. I'm so sick of going to doctors that I could just scream,I've been tested and adjusted and probed to death ,it's really nice to be free from that vicious cycle, and now being able to monitor things on my own. I'm not saying doctors are bad , but they really need to learn new ways of helping YOU help yourself, helping your body heal itself. Do you know what I mean? I hope so, it seems as if your on the right track, keep up the good work. Peace! D
In Reply to: Re: Cold Laser questions posted by Blaise [1319.1399] on February 13, 2005 at 01:30:22:
Thanks, Blaise.
The lesson is: Never stop learning!
Walt
|
[ Energy Healing Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |