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I went to the chiropractor today and had my first treatment with his new photonic stimulator (link below shows the unit he purchased). I posted here on 9/12/07, asking if anyone had experience with this. There was only one reply, but no direct experience, so I thought I'd report back and let you know how it went.
I have to say I was very pleased with the results. The pain relief is pretty significant and I am really hoping it will last. I've had pretty intense pain in my low back for the last month. The pain in my feet is moderate to awful. Nothing I've done has helped much (focused daily stretching and self-massage, walking, weekly professional massage, bi-weekly chiropractic, energy work, SR, rest, sauna, whole foods), and my pelvis feels really unstable now which results in pain and dysfunction along the spine and elsewhere above and below. It's a long-term chronic thing, but has been flared up a lot in the last month, and I have not had much relief. My x-rays this year showed significant facet arthritis, osteophytes, spondylosis, and disk narrowing in the lumbar area, and muscle/connective tissue involvement/fibromyalgia in my spine and other dysfunction in other places. My low back has been very painful to the touch for years.
Today the DC gave me a short treatment in my low back, then did my neck, my feet (plantar fasciitis and neuropathy), and the chronically tight soleus muscle in one calf that contributes to the pain in that foot. My body really liked that energy and sucked it up! DC uses muscle-testing to assess efficacy of all the treatments we do and it muscle-tested very strong for me.
The DC wants me to have a longer treatment from the tech at each visit before I see him, so I'm going to do that when I go in every two weeks or so. He says the results are cumulative, so I'm really looking forward to some significant pain relief. I'd love to have a treatment a couple of times a week, but unfortunately my DC is too far away to make that happen.
He says he has had very good results with many types of pain...nerve pain, neuropathy, arthritis, fibromyalgia, and other spinal issues. Almost everyone asks if they can take the unit home! I had thought these units were many thousands of dollars, but this one seems to have a price tag of $1800+. Seems like it might be affordable for some people to have a home unit, especially if multiple family members would use it.
The website says this device is not yet FDA-approved, but I thought I read on the LymeNet discussion board that it was recently approved. Not that the approval necessarily makes it any safer, but it would help people get it paid for by their health insurance.
Anyway, that's my initial experience, and I hope this benefits someone else.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Most of these treatments do use from 600 to 1000 nanometres. We have used prportable units that were made up by a friend, and work using rechargable batteries. Another form used DC current. Do some reading on LLLT, and it will show the variety of uses for the LED treatment devices. We were lucky that these were made for us for less that $300. There are many commercial products that can be purchased. They are very useful.
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Nutmeg, you are such a pioneer. This is very interesting and hope you will walk us all through it.
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Hi Lovebird,
Do not fear the lack of FDA approval...
I just heard that about 2% of prescription meds do not have FDA approval, only a 10 digit code number to identify the med.
Phenobarbitol is one of them.
Apparently, you can go to the FDA website and enter the 10 digit number to see if your med is approved or not.
They admitted that some approved meds might not
give an accurate return of approval.
It takes a computer to make such errors. :>(
Ron
In Reply to: Re: Photonic stimulator--first treatment....(unaproved is not so rare) posted by Ron [5412.1575] on September 26, 2007 at 21:53:50:
Hey Ron, I'm not Lovebird :-)
It's the FDA I fear, LOL, not their lack of approval on a treatment or med. I just mentioned that because someone else might want to seek out a practitioner for treatment, and if they did, they might want to know ahead of time whether their insurance would cover it or not. I'm sure there are creative ways to bill this that would have a good chance of being covered.
Over the years I've paid out-of-pocket for many, many treatments that are not FDA-approved, and that show up on Quackwatch and other so-called watchdog sites, and even some stuff they have not heard of. I decide for myself to try anything alternative that others might think twice about or wouldn't even consider, as long as my intuition and experience tell me it's not harmful and not out of my price range.
Thanks for the caution,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Thanks, Nutmeg.
"Light Therapy" has been effective for more than 100 years but the rabid and omnicient AMA took axes to all the machines at the turn of the century and put off progress in the field for 100 years.
Let us hear about your progress. It is heartening to see this valuable concept coming back.
Walt
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Thanks, Nutmeg.
"Light Therapy" has been effective for more than 100 years but the rabid and omnicient AMA took axes to all the machines at the turn of the 20th century and put off progress in the field for 100 years.
Let us hear about your progress. It is heartening to see this valuable concept coming back.
Walt
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Nutmeg, R. wanted you to know this - he posted on his forum and asked for someone to pass it along to you - so, here you go!
~~~8>
"When I actively monitored a colloidal silver email list, I came accross a few reports of usage of red light devices. Very successful reports. You might be able to find them archived at http://www.silverlist.org/. They were made either by putting together several LEDs or by simply combining a light filter in the desired frequency range (I think it was about 650 nm if I remember correctly) with a powerful spotlight. The price is within tens of dollars. You might want to consider this route before you invest nearly $2,000 for http://www.ochslabs.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=43&osCsid=3780add79b6d89f4b7b37887ace9a9b7. Who knows, this may be even be as good as visiting the DC for some light sessions.
There's at least one web site where you can select filters in needed frequency ranges. I've used it once but can't find its address.
You could also try something as simple as an infrared heat lamp (e.g. http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8434). Actually, the bulbman.com people have received the filters for me, so they are likely to know where to find them."
In Reply to: Re: Photonic stimulator--first treatment....(unaproved is not so rare) posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 23:59:26:
Hi Nutmeg,
You are right! You are not...
I should have looked again before I typed the name..
Maybe I should stop doing that and just start typing my reply without the salutation... so I will appear less
forgetful? ;>)
Ron... Yeah!... hmmmm? It IS me!
In Reply to: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on September 26, 2007 at 19:36:24:
Thanks for the report, Nutmeg. This is interesting.
So the stimulator in the link is the one the DC uses? What sensations
did you have during the treatment?
I'll be watching for further reports on your experience with this.
Jim
In Reply to: Re: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by Jim H. [9945.4141] on September 27, 2007 at 09:50:50:
Hi Jim,
Yes, the device pictured on the link is the one my DC has.
As far as sensations during the treatment, I felt nothing in the way of input--no tingling or anything like that, just a gradual realization that there was less muscle spasm/tension and more flexibility which I would describe as a mild melting away of the pain. I know I have low oxygen supplies in my painful/ arthritic/injured areas because of thick blood (fibrinogen level in the 350-400 range) and reduced circulation because of that, so my sense was that the infrared energy was increasing the circulation to bring oxygen and remove metabolic products.
I think there are several theories on why this technology works, but no final word on it yet. DC says the light penetrates about an inch, so that would limit its effectiveness in some parts of the body.
Today, one day later, I have some mild-to-moderate muscle pain in the areas that were treated, but that is not unusual for me one day after a gentle chiro adjustment. Kind of a backlash thing.
I always wake up stiff and sore but today was much less so, even in my hips (where my worst AM stiffness is), even though my hips were only treated indirectly by low back photonic stimulator and pelvic/S-I joint adjustment. I am feeling better than I normally would after a chiro visit. I would love to see what a longer treatment with the photo stim will do!
Thanks for your interest, Jim. I'll post my continued experiences with this.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by labrat [1119.4274] on September 27, 2007 at 08:23:59:
Hi Labrat (and R),
Thanks so much for this. It's good to know R can still have valuable input to the BB from the other side :o)
After reading lmd's post I realized there is probably a way to do this more cheaply and still accomplish the same thing. Have not had a chance to research this yet, but I will find the time.
I will also ask the DC if he has the option of getting a good price on some more of the unit he bought if some other patients are also interested in purchasing it. Maybe he could get a group discount. He told me the first unit he looked at was $10K, and he understandably balked at spending that, so this one seems like a bargain at under $2K...LOL!
I have a hand-held massager with an infrared heat option, but it is not very powerful. The specs on the photonic stimulator are in that link I posted. It's an LED light source, rather than laser, and it's 940 nm. I think the wattage was pretty high.
Thanks again!
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Photonic stimulator--first treatment.... posted by labrat [1119.4274] on September 27, 2007 at 08:23:59:
Thanks, labrat, I would like to build an infrared sauna in an unused
shower stall I have. There might be some benefit to the wooden
interiors the store-bought ones have, but I am not aware of what that
might be. A few bulbs and a son-in-law who is an electrician would
sure beat the price of a purchased unit. I remember that Jan made one.
Jim
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