Re: Do water ionizers remove flouride from the water as some have claimed?
Posted by Jan S. on November 26, 2003 at 14:15:39:
In Reply to: Do water ionizers remove flouride from the water as some have claimed? posted by Gregory on November 26, 2003 at 10:51:07:
(Repeating the text for the benefit of Netscape browsers)
There have been statements made regarding water ionizers removing fluoride from municipal water supplies. However, it is virtually impossible for water ionizers to remove anything from water. To ionize means simply to gain or loose an electron. The amount and type of minerals present in the water before ionization is the same after ionization, with the exception that they are split into acid and alkaline minerals.
In every test we are aware of, no more than 30 percent of the fluoride in the water was lost on the alkaline side of the ionized water. This means that a maximum 30 percent of the fluoride – by all means not all of the fluoride – runs into the drain.
Very interesting. Makes sense.
Some water ionizers make a >90% fluoride removal claim based on including a supplemental fluoride filter. These are alumina-based filters. What I wonder is are those as good as claimed, and do they add any aluminum to the water?? (rhetorically wondering)
Follow Ups:
Re: How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water
Posted by Jan S. on November 26, 2003 at 14:38:52:
In Reply to: How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water posted by Gregory on November 26, 2003 at 09:13:09:
Thanks, Gregory and Maz. I am very interested in this topic too. I've managed to escape local fluoridation for most of my life. (although you can't escape it entirely in foods etc. that come from other areas). Fluoridation started in Mass. the year after I moved to L.A. Finally it caught up to me in L.A. when they started it in 1999.
I wanted to look into actually testing my own water and devices used with it. I haven't done this but here is my thinking.
1. Peterb, you say that scientist Floyd Maxwell opines that no device removes fluoride, despite manufacturer claims. The next thing I planned to do was check with http://nsf.org on how they test. They are a manufacturer-independent standards body that evaluates sanitation devices. "Standard 60" pertains to fluoride removal and a number of devices are evaluated by them. (They test whether or not a device does what it claims to do, and it only passes muster if so AND if it does not further contaminate the water.)
2. Floyd Maxwell used to have a link to a mail-in lab to test fluoride levels. The link seems to have disappeared. Do you have it?
3. Fluoricheck Water Analysis Test. You can contact Omni FluoriCheck http://www.floss.com/fluoricheck_water_analysis_test_.htm or at phone: 800-445-3386 or fax: 561-689-1159 for a water fluoride analysis test kit. The water collection vial and analysis cost about $16.00. You send them a sample of your drinking water. The test results arrive in about 2-4 weeks. Omni FluoriCheck is endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry. Produced by Omni Products, this is the first nationally available doctor-dispensed fluoride test to help one determine the levels of fluoride in one's home drinking water. I don't know if you could purchase a kit on your own (not through a doctor/dentist) but on one site, it said it was possible.
Would be interesting to do before and after tests on a device or two, after purchase.
Also, do the alumina-based fluoride filters add an aluminum burden to the water?
As you can see, the above is the incomplete state of my research (hello, scattered brain) but I decided to post in case anyone else wants to follow up before I do.
Re: How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water
Posted by peterb on November 27, 2003 at 14:48:46:
In Reply to: Re: How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water posted by Jan S. on November 26, 2003 at 14:38:52:
Jan, I haven't talked to Floyd in several years and I'm not sure if he still offers lab testing, but I'll try to get in touch with him.
Meanwhile, if there are commercially available filtration systems that remove fluoride sufficiently (less than 1ppm) I don't know what they are. Studies have shown that even 1ppm creates health problems over the long term. For me, low-fluoride bottled water is still the only way to go.
Be well.
Finding Charity
Posted by Gregory on November 27, 2003 at 15:17:38:
In Reply to: Ok now you have lost me. posted by Charity on November 27, 2003 at 13:32:05:
This is about the debate that rages about fluoride in drinking water.
One side wants it in the water, because it will cause cavaties and thus keep them in business. This group, the
dentists are covering this up with studies that "show" that fluoride in the drinking water is beneficial. There is already fluoride in the drinking water, naturally occuring, in amounts insigificant to health, but naturally if a little bit is good, then a lot must be better, especially when you know better.
OK.
Then there are the people who know better, who fight to get fluoride removed from the water supply. This is an uphill battle.
The best that can be done at this level, for yourself, it to remove the flouride as it enters your home. From a practical
standpoint this means either removing it mechanically, via filter or
chemically by making it biologically inert so that it cannot harm the body.
If there is a movement or group in your area, then there is a good chance that your water is flouridated. This series of posts is our (those who are interested) attempt to find a way to neutralize the effects of flouride in the water we drink, bathe and cook with.
Clarity for Charity? :)
Nutrition against fluoride accumulation
Posted by Jan S. on November 27, 2003 at 15:59:24:
In Reply to: Re: How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water posted by Gregory on November 26, 2003 at 14:44:32:
Not so much scatterbrained as scattered brain - (too) many irons in the fire.
Thanks. That was my thinking, to get the contaminants out first before considering something like energetic properties - but was not sure I wasn't just being anal about it. :)
Also of interest to me is how to remove fluoride accumulation in the body, or even prevent it, by means of nutrition. I came across this study where fluorisis was reversed in children, with ascorbic acid, calcium and vitamin D3.
Reversal of fluorosis in children.
Gupta SK, Gupta RC, Seth AK, Gupta A.
Department of Physiology, SMS Medical College, Jaipur, India.
Large populations consume fluoride-contaminated water, especially in developing countries. The toxic effects of fluorosis take three forms: clinical, skeletal and dental. Research thus far indicates that the manifestations of fluorosis are irreversible. However, it has been observed that the ingestion of calcium, vitamin C or vitamin D, individually, is effective in protection from fluoride toxicity to a certain extent. Therefore, a double blind control trial was conducted to examine the effect of a combination of calcium, vitamin D3 and ascorbic acid supplementation in fluorosis-affected children. In the present study, 25 children were selected from an area consuming water containing 4.5 p.p.m. of fluoride, All the children were in the age group 6-12 years and weighed 18-30 kg. They were graded for clinical, radiological and dental fluorosis and relevant biochemical parameters. Grade I skeletal fluorosis and all grades of the manifestation of dental and clinical fluorosis were observed. The children were given ascorbic acid, calcium and vitamin D3 well below the toxic dosages in a double blind manner using lactose as a placebo. Follow up revealed a significant improvement in dental, clinical and skeletal fluorosis and relevant biochemical parameters in these children. Thus, the study indicated that fluorosis can be reversed, at least in children, by a therapeutic regimen that is fairly cheap, simple and easily available and without any side effects. PMID: 8942013 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Also Mark Gold M.D. claims that high magnesium supplementation helps to REMOVE fluoride accumulation in tissues.
Follow Ups:
Re: Finding Charity
Posted by Gregory on November 28, 2003 at 01:34:02:
In Reply to: Re: Finding Charity posted by Charity on November 28, 2003 at 00:22:38:
Hi Charity.
It is my understanding that your filter, while excellent, will not filter flouride out of the water. This link talks
about the various characteristics of filters vs. purifiers, however it is also my understanding that even a purifier
may not get flouride out of the water. That is why this is so vexing. Some other pre-treatment in necessary to get the
flouride out of the water, in addition to filtering and/or purifying the water.
For me the next step is energizing the water because after all the manipulation to get all the crap out, the water has
to "remember" that it is water. (Dr. Emoto's work on structured water).
This last step is not necessary in order to have mechcanically drinkable water mind you. Just to have the
highest overall quality drinking water possible.
Re: Thank you!
Posted by Jan S. to Charity on November 29, 2003 at 18:09:42:
In Reply to: Thank you! posted by Charity on November 28, 2003 at 21:31:29:
Sorry you are already having overfluoridation! (How are you hearing about it or seeing it?)
Will there be repercussions? I expect so but wonder just how bad it will have to get before we 'officially' acknowledge them. Health effects which are multi-symptomatic over long periods of time are relatively difficult to investigate because of all the variables, and are easy to spin by those who don't want to see, that it can't be happening.
Follow Ups:
- Re: Thank you! Jan S. - to Charity , again 18:15:18 11/29/03
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