In Reply to: Re: Tingling and Mental Fog/Confussion posted by Walt Stoll on April 01, 1998 at 11:38:57:
Walt,
I did post a note a month or so ago describing my tally on side effects and the use of glucosamine sulfate. I DID find that approximately 50% of 25 or so people experienced gastrointestinal problems (usually loose stools or diarrhea) that were resolved by moving to another brand. I'm not sure what is causing the gastric problems but have been involved with enough chemical processing plants to know that it could be any of a number of things.
I haven't found anyone that has had problems with the FutureBiotics brand. Unfortunatley, now my experience isn't expanding with which brands seem to cause problems since if they do have a problem I have them try the FutureBiotics brand. It seems to be widely available and the price is substancially less than products from some other manufacturers. The retail price for 60 capsules of the FutureBiotics brand is usually less than $18. Enzymatic Therapies usually sells the same 60 capsules of 500 mg. glucosamine sulfate product for over $32. Now I'm seeing 'sodium free' versions since the original manufacturing process demanded that a pretty good slug of sodium be used. It will be interesting if Dr. Micheal Murray and his company (Enzymatic Therapies) will insist that these 'sodium free' variants of GS are not proven (which of course would be literally correct)......
Bob
In Reply to: Glucosamine Side-effects; MANUFACTURER? posted by Walt Stoll on April 01, 1998 at 12:23:18:
Dear Dr. Stoll:
In glucosamine historical posts 1997 part 4, you mention 3 times the phone 800-692-9400 and in one of them you mention to talk to the biochemist at this number. Maybe that is the manufacturer number.
I take the glucosamine sulfate from "Vitamin World" but the product is not made BY them. The bottle says manufactured FOR them. So far I think I have had no side effects.
In a side note I started taking chondroitin sulfate yesterday (250 mg capsules 2 x/day; will go to 3 x/day in a couple of days if I see no side effects). I read some of your archives and sometimes you recommended it. Also I had e-mail from a guy that was very satisfied with his results and I read an article about its benefits even "when it was not supposed to help".
Regards,
Antonio
In Reply to: Glucosamine Side-effects; MANUFACTURER? posted by Walt Stoll on April 01, 1998 at 12:23:18:
Walt,
Have them try the glucosamine sulfate from FutureBiotics.
Let me know if it still causes problems.
Bob
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Side-effects; MANUFACTURER? posted by Antonio Alvarez on April 01, 1998 at 23:26:49:
Sports One manufactures Clucosamine and Chondroitin. Sports One is of extremely high quality. They are a relatively new company which is taking the health supplement industry by storm. You see their full page ads in muscle and fitness
and flex magazines. As a bodybuilder and dealer, I can tell you that their products are the finest in quality I have ever seen. You can give them a call at 18006248787. Their whey makes Universal, EAS, and Designer Protein look and
taste like garbage!
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Side-effects; MANUFACTURER? posted by Antonio Alvarez on April 01, 1998 at 23:26:49:
Thanks, Antonio.
That particular number is for a "tech support" department for the supplement company I use for my own supplements. It would not be a good place to call since they got overwhelmed by requests & called me to say they weren't going to do it any more except for physicians (sigh).
Also remember, about the effectiveness of the chondroitin "when it wasn't supposed to help". IF the patient knows what s/he is taking, what it is supposed to do AND believes that it WILL help, there is a 70%+ positive placebo effect. Ask how it is working in about 6 months.
Walt
I have had a total hip replacement as a result of avascular necrosis caused by steroid use for treatment of Crohn's Disease. The AVN has also effected both shoulders and the remaining hip.
Can a regimen of glucosomine/chondroiton-sulfate be beneficial in relieving hip and shoulder discomfort?
I have heard that these products may effect the blood supply to bone??????? Are there any other side effects that I should be concerned about with my condition? (I also have an ileostomy - absorbtion occurs where?)
Your input will be appreciated.
In Reply to: glucosomine/chondroiton-sulfate posted by Neil Koppelman on April 03, 1998 at 18:01:03:
Dear Neil,
Your sad story is another example of why I am so disappointed in my profession (MDs). Many professionals, around the world, have known how to reverse Crohn's Disease for 20 years. How long ago did you have the "offending tissue" removed? How long ago were you being treated only by suppressing the symptoms with cortisone rather than dealing with the causes?
I have heard nothing that would indicate that glucosamine would be helpful in this terrible situation. However, neither have I heard anything that it would be dangerous for you to try it. You might look at the notes posted this week about different manufacturers since you could not afford any GI side effects.
If you are interested in learning how you could have avoided all this, write again & I will point you in a direction for learning it. Depending on your age, this still could be critical information for you to know.
Walt
Dear Dr. Stoll; Thank you for your comments.
I have found the following :
"... the administration of glucosamine during the first few days after surgery or trauma can be expected to enhance hyaluronic acid production in the wound, promoting swifter healing and possibility diminishing complications related to scarring" see : McCarty, M.F., Glucosamine for wound healing. Med. Hypotheses, 47,(4), 273-275, 1996.
I hope that it is true.
Regards,
Andre
In Reply to: Re: glucosomine/chondroiton-sulfate posted by Walt Stoll on April 05, 1998 at 12:02:13:
Thank you for the response.
I am 51 years old, and had a total colectomy and ileostomy surgery 3 years ago. The Chron's has been in remission since then and the only problem has been the AVN of hips and shoulders. I had been treated with prednisone for approximately 1-1/2 years prior to surgery.
Any additional information you may provide will be appreciated.
In Reply to: Searching for translation to NAG - ATTENTION: Mattb OR Peter Wray posted by Holly on April 09, 1998 at 09:18:15:
Dear Holly,
Your post caught my eye, even though you addressed it to Matt. No presumption intended. NAG stands for N-acetyl glucosamine, and is a slight variant on glucosamine sulphate. My holistic endo recommended it as a possible adjunct to dealing with leaky gut syndrome, 750 mg twice daily for a total of 1500 mg daily, with or without food being irrelevant. She says that NAG works for her better than what is marketed as "glucosamine sulfate". Granted, she takes it for arthritic knee pain, and not LGS, but she does say that the NAG form of glucosamine has totally eliminated her knee pain. She hasn't experienced any side effects. Hope this helps.
Kyra
P.S. TwinLabs markets N-acetyl glucosamine as "NAG" in 750 mg capsules,
In Reply to: Re: glucosomine/chondroiton-sulfate posted by Neil Koppelman on April 07, 1998 at 17:06:57:
Dear Neil,
Read a copy of my book (link below). Then, if that makes sense, read one of the references in the back of the book: "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier. This latter book was written about you but doesn't say much about what you should do. MY book is better about that.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Searching for translation to NAG - ATTENTION: Mattb OR Peter Wray posted by Kyra Kitts on April 09, 1998 at 22:13:26:
Unfortunately I don't have anything yet about NAG or Glucosamine sulphate on my site. You got me interested though and I have found a couple of articles that I hope to have up over the Easter weekend.
Peter
In Reply to: Glucosamine Side-effects; MANUFACTURER? posted by Walt Stoll on April 01, 1998 at 12:23:18:
Dr. Stoll,
Have you had any experience with glucosamine HCL instead of
glucosamine sulfate. Was wondering about it because its
lower in sodium and would be better for people on low
sodium diets.
Thanks.
My mother is a breast cancer survivor of 9 years. She is 62 years old and for the last two years has been battling with degenerative disk disease, hip and knees. She would like to start treatment with glucosamine sulfate but is concerned about the side effects and if the drug would have any impact on her health in case the cancer reappeared. Please let me know if you have found any abstracts on this on the www. Thank you, a concerned daughter.
My husband [age 62] who has knee problem is considering taking glucosamine and chondroitin supplements. Should one take glucosamine chondroitin or glucosamine sulfate and chondroitin sulfate separately? What should be the correct dosage? What are the adverse side effects, if any?
I have chronic plantar fasciitis in both feet and have tried every treatment imaginable. I had been taking anti-inflammatory drugs, but recently got off of them because I know I can't take them for the rest of my life. I read The Arthritis Cure and believe that glucosamine chondroitin could help "heal" the fascia like it "heals" the ligaments and cartilages of people who have arthritis. Do you think it could be an effective treatment? Would you recommend any other treatments?
In Reply to: glucosamine chondroitin for plantar fasciitis posted by debbie on April 15, 1998 at 20:23:27:
95% of the people with this problem, that I have treated, have found success with arch supports. As the arch falls it pulls the fascia from both ends and causes the problem. This treatment and no other has been that answer for countless patients. If you haven't tried it please do. 2-4 weeks depending on how much you walk every day(or are on your feet). I do mean arch supports and not just insoles. Good luck and I hope you haven't already tried it. If you are someone who stands/walks on concrete all day then it may take a little longer to see results.
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine posted by Ed Clarke on April 14, 1998 at 13:39:08:
Dear Ed,
I have no personal or professional experience with either of them. All I know is the reports I have read. I now have my wife on the glucosamine sulfate but not long enought to tell.
Walt
In Reply to: Glucosamine and Cancer posted by Daughter on April 14, 1998 at 20:32:56:
Dear Daughter,
Your mother is a perfect candidate for a serious wellness program which would help everything you have listed. At best, the glucosamine would have temporary benefits anyhow.
I know nothing about your mother but what you have posted so don't take any comments I say personally. My purpose on this BB is not to make you like me. It is to offer the best information I know how to offer.
Unfortunately, some people would rather die than change their lifestyles. You know your mother better than I. If she is one of those, just love her as she is & don't bother her with learning anything OR, God forbid, changing anything. If, however, she is someone who would enjoy learning of her options, go to this link to get started: How to be Healthy. If you already knew this stuff, you wouldn't be here on the BB asking. To avoid ending up like your mother, you could profitably learn this stuff now.
As she improves, please share her experiences with us here on the BB. Others deserve to know that they DO have options to simply TAKING something.
Walt
In Reply to: glucosamine chondroitin for plantar fasciitis posted by debbie on April 15, 1998 at 20:23:27:
Dear Debbie,
Listen to Doc Dave.
However, if that is the only thing you do, you will ind yourself using higher & higher supports till you fall out of your shoes.
In MY experience, the cause of this tightness & chronic inflammation of the plantar fascia is total body bracing.
In the long run, learning an effective skilled relaxation technique and practicing it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring) will not only resolve this but give you many unexpected positive side benefits. You will find yourself blessing the day you "got" your PF because it made you learn to get rid of your total-body bracing.
In the meantime, Rolfing would give you unbelievable relief within only a few sessions. Call (800) 447-0150 for the closest Certified Rolfer to where you live.
Let us know how you do. This is one of those totally unnecessary conditions. Your bodymind is trying to send you a message,
Walt
My father who is 65 years old has mild diabetes. He has been suffering from diabetes for the last few years. I would like to know if Glucosamine affects blood sugar levels and how.
Dr. Stoll, I have been taking the combination form of the above referenced elements for osteoarthritis. Is there any harm in doing so? Should they be taken separately at different times for maximum benefit?
Thank you.
Sally Simonson
In Reply to: Glucosamine Sulphate and Diabetes posted by Jyoti Dhingra on April 18, 1998 at 06:55:36:
My husband is diabetic. He started taking glucosamine sulfate last week. His blood sugar has gone up to 300 to 400. We want to get more info. on diabetes and glucosamine sulfate. Please e-mail with any infomation. Thank You
Dr. Stoll: I have read a great number of inquiries addressed to you regarding the side effects of glucosamine. Your response has been to ask a veterinarian. Wouldn't it be incumbent upon you as an "expert" to do the asking and pass the consensus of information on to your network "patients"? Also, why isn't the medical establishment doing the research?
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Sulfate Side Effects posted by W. H. Parks on April 19, 1998 at 14:48:42:
Dear W.H.,
The body of information that you seek can be accessed by clicking on the "search" word on the main bulletin board (click on "Ask Dr. Stoll above). There you will find everything Dr. Stoll and the other participants on this board have said.
You will find that not that much is known yet, since this stuff has only just gotten to be the rage in the last couple of years.
The reason this information is archived is that your question has been asked so many times here, and it just wouldn't work, given the volume that has to be dealt with, to keep repeating answers to each introductory question. You will find much more than the suggestion to ask a Vet. (which is a good one, have you tried?)
Check out the Home Page also to get an idea of what Dr. Stoll's ideas and opinions are all about. Hope this helps.
Jim
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Sulfate Side Effects posted by Jim on April 19, 1998 at 16:44:15:
W.H.
It has been awhile since I went to the archives. How I said to do it isn't right. Here's how: put "bulletin board archives" into the search engine you find after you click on the "search" function. There are many subjects there.
Jim
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Sulfate Side Effects posted by Jim on April 19, 1998 at 17:17:39:
Jim: Thanks for the advice. I'll try it. Been taking the stuff for a few months and it seems to help but I don't want to destroy any organs in the process.
In Reply to: Glucosamine Sulphate and Diabetes posted by Jyoti Dhingra on April 18, 1998 at 06:55:36:
Dear Jyoti,
It has no effect. If you want to know a lot about all this, use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about glusosamine & glucosamine side-effects.
Walt
In Reply to: glucosimine and condroitin combination posted by S. Simonson on April 18, 1998 at 11:33:44:
Dear Sally,
Please use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about glucosamine & glucosamine side-effects. Your answers are there.
You will also understand why I say that resolution of chronic problems like this will never be from something one TAKES but from something one DOES.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Glucosamine Sulfate Side Effects posted by W. H. Parks on April 19, 1998 at 14:48:42:
Dear W.H.,
If you have used the search feature for this BB, & read all the postings about this, you must KNOW that I do not hold myself out to be an "expert" in all things--especially glucosamine. I would be VERY careful of anyone who purports to give advice in every alternative approach to conventional medicine. It cannot be done.
I have never personally or professionally used it & I have stated so many times. I DO know where to find those answers & have stated that many times as well.
The AMA does not support research in this area because it is seen as competition to prescription writing. You have noticed that it does not require a prescription?
Walt
aI have an arthritic hip, and have heard a lot about
glucosimine, and was considering trying it. I am only 24
and it is hard for me to not be active. what i was
wondering is about the side effects, if there are any. or
if there are any drug interaction warnings that i should be
aware of. thanks, toby
In Reply to: glucosimine side effects posted by Toby on April 21, 1998 at 11:01:42:
Dear Toby,
Glucosamine may help for a while. I do not know of any drug interactions that may be harmful but I am not an expert in the use of this stuff. The manufacturer would have that information at hand.
What I would recommend is that you become an expert in the many factors known to promote arthritis & do something about as many of them as you can before the condition causes so much damage that you are a candidate for surgical replacement.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: glucosimine side effects posted by Barbara Bailey on April 22, 1998 at 16:48:36:
Dear Barbara,
Use the search feature for this BB and read everything you can find about arthritis, glucosamine and glucosamine side-effects. THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
The most important thing for you to know right now is that arthritis will never be resolved by something you TAKE but by something you DO. At your age, it is critical that you learn WHY you have it & become a student of what it takes to reverse it. My book has several chapters dedicated to these factors since arthritis is such a good example of the superiority of the holistic approach as compared to the bankrupt conventional approach.
The glucosamine might help. However, at best, the results would be temporary even though you kept taking it.
Walt
I too had the same weird feelings including a tightening of the scalp, as in a high stress situation. I would be interested to know the manufacturer of the supplement that you were taking.
In Reply to: Re: glucosamine chondroitin for plantar fasciitis posted by Walt Stoll on April 17, 1998 at 11:42:00:
You are correct about the arch supports. I have been
through nine sets of prescribed supports and braces
without relief, and my physician is now recommending
nerve-block surgery. I will check into the rolfing.
Returning to my original question,
do you think glucosamine can provide any benefit?
Dear Drs. Stoll & Ferguson:
This is my one-month report. I have been on glucosamine sulfate @ 500 mg 3 x/day for slightly over 1 month. I started the chondroitin sulfate @ 250 mg 2 x/day on March 31 and have had 4 Chiropractor visits. I started the chondroitin sulfate out of PANIC after 3 weeks because, to that time I saw no improvement whatsoever (or even maybe even further deterioration). I also saw an article (from Today's Chemist at Work) with positive comments on it (I will be happy to send you a copy of it via snail mail). The article, however, also said that cartilage REPAIR by the GS/CS was not proven. Anyhow the following week things started improving.
The improvement was probably going to start anyway rather than due to the chondroitin sulfate. Now sometimes I can go upstairs with no pain. But I still have pain (or discomfort) sometimes when I go downstairs (this started in the last month or two) or upstairs. My Chiropractor says that when I can go up & down stairs with no pain I can resume weight bearing exercises (i.e. waking 2 - 3 miles/day).
I think the glucosamine sulfate has not given me any side effects. If anything, maybe my blood pressure may be borderline high (higher than my normal-borderline high). Normally I am able to keep it in the normal range. (I am not sure of this. I have to get myself checked a few times to be sure).
Dr. FERGUSON: I am a bit concern about how light my exercises are. I am doing now quadriceps and hamstring strengthening exercises. Both of them are without weights. The Chiropractor initially suggested 100 knee swings/lifting per day. I am doing much more than that, about 10 minutes worth 3 x/day. I do not extend my knees completely because they start to hurt after only 50 to 60 lifts. If I keep them at 45 -60 degrees, I can lift/swing them indefinitely. For the hamstring muscles I lay in bed face down and move my legs up & down for another 10 minutes. So together, I am doing 50 to 60 minutes exercise per day. I had to push my Chiro a bit to get to this point. He said that most of his patients do not want (or can not) spend much time doing exercises. I told him that getting my knees fixed up was my # 1 priority and I was willing to devote the time necessary to do it right. Do you think this exercise level is right (or too little or too much)?
Dr. FERGUSON: My chiropractor says I am doing fine and I can start going to him less often (3 or 2 times/month). Do you think this is prudent at this time?. I am leery about cutting back so soon, when the improvement has barely started.
Dr STOLL, about the placebo effect., did you really mean that it could be as high as 70% (seventy)? It just looks very high.
Dr. STOLL: My library got me your book. I found it to be very very good, but to keep this message "short" I will put my book comments and questions in a separate message.
Happy holidays to both of you and your families.
Antonio
In Reply to: TORN CARTILAGE -- Drs STOLL & FERGUSON posted by Antonio on April 13, 1998 at 23:36:28:
Glad to hear that you are doing so well.
I would have to say that you are doing too much too soon. Your desire to get things up and running(pun intended) may work against you. Imagine a broken arm in a cast. What excercises would you do for that? Imagine a sprained ankle. What would overusing that do to it? Hopefully you see what I'm saying. This thing needs rest.
You should have no problems going down to 2-4 treatments per month. The goal is to keep things "lined up" and your body will do the rest. If you feel as though you have twisted or "misaligned" your knee then the important thing is to go THEN to get treated, not wait a day. After awhile you WILL be able to wait a day and see how things are. For right now we know how things are ;-)
Essentially my advice to you is the same as your Dr. Cut down on the excercises and 2-4 treatments are probably enough unless you damage you knee or feel that it is "out of alignment". His advice is based on seeing you and your knee. That's something I can't do from here. Follow his advice but feel free to ask me about any of it.
In Reply to: TORN CARTILAGE -- Drs STOLL & FERGUSON posted by Antonio on April 13, 1998 at 23:36:28:
Dear Antonio,
Thanks for the update. It sounds like your Chiropractor has things well in hand.
Lots of "reps" are good if you have the time but weights or weight bearing that cause symptoms are still no-no's. I think you should not be going up & down stairs. Can you get your bed moved down?
It has been known for more than 50 years that double blind studies (in which neither the patient nor the doc has any idea what is in the pill) have a 35% beneficial placebo effect. It was just reported last year that, if the patient AND the doc both know what is in the pill--and both believe that it will work--the positive placebo effect is more than 70%. The reason I mentioned it is the latter scenario best describes what we were talking about.
What a waste that this powerful healing engine has been totally ignored till now just because no one could figure out how to charge for it.
Walt
Dear Drs. Ferguson & Stoll:
I had a second opinion with another chiropractor over here and he tells me that REAL interferential current for the knee is given with 4 electrodes (one on each side, one at the top of the knee and one opposite to it at at the bottom of the knee) instead of only 2 (one at each side of the knee). He says that 2-electrode current IS NOT REAL interferential current. He talks about the 4-electrode machine producing 2 electrical arcs that cross inside the knee. For speedier recoveries he initially gives treatments 2 or 3 times/week. He has not started treating me yet.
My first chiropractor only uses the 2-electrode machine. Do you think the 4-electrode treatment will be appreciably better than the 2 electrode one, in regard to providing a speedier recovery?
My knee is improving VERY slowly. I rate the improvement by how much it hurts when going up/down steps or getting up or down from a chair. I have to go 12 steps to get in or out of my house (ranch house, entrance in the midddle). Yesterday and today it felt much better (almost no pain going up steps, very slight going down). During the week it was not that good, that is why I went to see the other chiropractor.
Again, thank you, in advance, for your help.
Antonio
In Reply to: Interferential Current for Torn Cartilage -- Dr. Ferguson posted by Antonio Alvarez on April 26, 1998 at 16:22:19:
Any current is of less value than it is given credit. There are a few different ways to use muscle stim equipment and I have yet to see any real evidence of anything more than short term benefit.
The benefit should be from the adjustment of the knee and allowing it to repair. This whole procedure is directly complicated by the amount of damage that has already occured. Don't be afraid to move along to the other chiro but not based on the whole interferential arguement. There is no way for me to see if the adjustments are correct and to evaluate the condition of your knee so I have to trust in what the Dr. who is taking care of you is doing. However, it's your knee and if you feel the need to pick a new chiro then do so. The chiro you have may be doing an excellent job and it just comes down to you wanting more faster. That's only natural. Go with your instincts. Slow progression may be the best you can expect depending on the damage that has occured. I'm glad to hear you are headed in the right direction.
Again, don't worry too much about the interferential thing. I have about 95% success with knees such as yours and I have yet to hook anyone up to any electrodes. Worry about the adjustment and how much damage has been done.
Don't sit, recline, laydown, etc.. with your toes pointed out.
Let me know if any of this isn't clear(I'm pooped after a long vacation, ironically) or if you want any other info.
In Reply to: Re: Interferential Current for Torn Cartilage -- Dr. Ferguson posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on April 26, 1998 at 22:28:46:
Welcome Back Doc Dave!
Good advice!
I do have one thing for Antonio, though:
WHAT THE DEVIL ARE YOU DOING GOING UP & DOWN STAIRS? This is nearly the worst thing you can do with your knees if you want them to heal. The only thing worse I can think of would be squats.
Walt