While trying to figure out the triggers of my migraines, I went back to the only time I went 2 months in my life without a headache. During that time I was taking certain supplements, following the A diet, and not exercising at all.
I first assumed it was the diet, but I started having the headaches again on the same diet. Then I thought it was from the supplements I was taking, so I started taking them recently. Still headaches, though they don't seem as intense. Finally, I started working out again (very lightly, maybe 2 days a week), and the headaches started coming back. I stopped working out, and they were gone again. Returned to working out, and they are back. Not the day of working out or the day after, I just start to notice over time that I'm having them again.
Could I be deficient in something that is getting even worse from the increased demands of working out? By working out I mean maybe a half hour of very light weights - I can't handle much more. But I try to do some kind of exercise. Granted my body is very messed up right now, but I'm always looking for clues to what's going on.
Thanks.
Tony
Follow Ups:
Re: Brain allergies and detoxing?? (NMI)
Posted by Kyra on February 05, 1999 at 14:37:12:
In Reply to: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 10:44:35:
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 14:46:15:
In Reply to: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 10:44:35:
Hi again Tony,
That seems a reasonable assumption to me - that the working out is further depleting something you're already low on.
I have been battling EBV/CFIDS or whatever you want to call it for over a year now, and mostly I'm OK as long as I don't exercise much. But just 1/2 an hour of light weights, twice a week, and after two weeks I crash again. Or I can do 1/2 of an aerobics class, but not a whole one. So I suspect what you or I consider light weights is still a hard workout!
Possibilities to try :
- Peter says A types shouldn't do hard exercise, and I'm really seeing it in people around me now. Have you tried doing the yoga he recommends? Or you might prefer what I've just started - Pilates. It's for stretching and strengthening, and I find it a bit more interesting than yoga. I know you don't have money to go to classes, but you might be able to find a book about it in the library. Let me know how you get on.
- I know the ER4YT thinking is that you should be able to get all your nutrients from eating the right foods, but I'm a little dubious. I just don't believe we can get all we need from food any more. So if you found the supplements helped you, start taking them again.
As I said to you a few days ago on the ER4YT board, you're going to need to be dogged, determined and stubborn. And that includes trusting your gut instinct and your experience (after all, you know your case best) when weighing up advice given to you by other people - even experts.
More good wishes, Deb.
PS I have had good success using alternate nostril breathing to get into SR. Hopefully Bob's pulse technique will work for you, but if you're still having trouble after practicing that for a bit, let me know, and I'll post the instructions for it.
Follow Ups:
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on February 05, 1999 at 15:18:06:
In Reply to: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 10:44:35:
If you haven't tried chiropractic, you should.
ABSTRACT
The efficacy of spinal manipulation, Amitriptyline, and the combination of both therapies for the prophylaxis of migraine
headache
Results: Clinically important improvement was observed in both primary and secondary outcomes in all three study groups
over time. The reduction in headache index scores during treatment compared to baseline was 49% for amitriptyline, 40% for
spinal manipulation, and 41% for the combined group; P=0.66. During the post-treatment follow-up period the reduction from
baseline was 24% for amitriptyline, 42% for spinal manipulation, and 25% for the combined group; P=0.05.
(J Manipulative Physiol Ther 1998; 21:511-519)
Follow Ups:
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 15:41:42:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on February 05, 1999 at 15:18:06:
Thanks Doc Dave. I didn't understand most of it, but I guess the first line basically summed it up.
Tony
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 15:53:33:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 14:46:15:
Hey Deb.
That was a lot of info. Thanks. Yes, it seems to me like I might be depleting something too, but noone else seems to think so. I've had migraines since about 5 years old, so something is triggering them. But like I said, for the first 2 months on ER4YT and supplements, I had no headaches. It was great.
But I had also stopped working out at that time, and while I don't remember when I started working out again, I thought maybe that could be the deciding factor. I had always worked out my whole life, for about 2-3 hours a day, and now I'm lucky if I can do it for a half hour twice a week. Maybe it's just the CFIDS. I don't have epstein barr though. Wish I did - maybe they could treat something.
About the SR. I tried Rob's recommendations twice so far, and it didn't go that great, but I have to give it more time to know. I could barely feel my pulse, and it would slow down, only to speed up everytime I took a breath. So I never got past the counting stage. I was actually thinking of using a stethascope to listen to my heart beating. Worth a try, right?
I was taking Yoga, and I loved it, but I ran out of money there too. But I did learn alternate nostril breathing, and while I try it a lot, I never notice much relaxation from it. But I would like to hear about the Pilates thing. Never heard of that before. You can email me privately about it if it's too long for the BB, although I'm sure some others would probably benefit from it.
By the way, I am starting to notice too that maybe Peter is onto something with the exercise guidelines. While my father and I, both type A's, have always worked out religiously, I know we both have never enjoyed it, but just did it out of discipline. And thinking back, it did always seem to just drain us both afterwards. I never understood how people could work out and then be all hyped up afterwards. Not that I'd be tired, just drained, irritable, and starving!
Keep in touch,
Tony
Follow Ups:
you may be onto to something here
Posted by Pete R on February 05, 1999 at 17:13:37:
In Reply to: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 10:44:35:
Hello.
I too suffered from migranes and that is why I started my health quest a few years ago. I actually had one recently, but it was the first one in a year. I've changed many variables in my lifestyle, but one big difference is that I don't run anymore. My achilles tendon used to flair up. And it was stressful! I'd get up at 5:15AM because the kids are still asleep and go out and run. Any weather. Zero degrees. No matter. I almost got killed once on a narrow road when I fell when one foot hit a pot hole (it was dark of course in the early morning and the car lights are blinding) while two cars were passing me. It was my dicipline thing. Bottom line, I haven't had my real bad headaches for a long time. And I don't run. It may just be correlated. (getting up earlier made me always tired too. That may be a trigger.)(I'm also a Type-A ER4YT guy). But combined with all the other changes, its very hard to tell. I believe that no one really knows WHY we get them. Read the book "Migrane" by Oliver Sacks. Its interesting to know that these particular headaches have been around since the beginning of man. But the "lower stress", be it from SR, or NOT killing yourself exercising, sure seems like it may be correlated.
Regards. Pete Reinhard
Follow Ups:
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 17:20:54:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 15:53:33:
Dear Tony,
Yes, I do have a life, it's just Sat am here in NZ and I thought I'd check in again.
Several things sprang to mind from your post, so.....
Weights - If you have done 2-3 hours a day, your whole life, no wonder you have chronic fatigue! That is an incredible stress to put on your body. I have read that you should never train for more than an hour at a time, and ideally you should have a rest afterwards. Chances are that *has* depleted you of lots of stuff, and chances are you have injured yourself somewhere along the line and need some chiropractic work, as Dave suggests. (I was only doing 1 hour, 3 x a week for 2 years, and I overtrained!! And I'm an O and supposed to able to handle it!) There are other ways to get resistance exercise. I want to get back to it, cos I actually enjoy it (madness, I know!), but if you hate it - DON'T DO IT!!!!
Yoga - You said you love it, but can't afford the classes. Now that you know how to do it, you should be able to do it at home, for free. Are you? You can get strength work doing Yoga, you know.
Pilates - It was originally developed for rehabilitating injured dancers, and it includes stretching tight, overused muscles and strengthening weak ones. For me, it's a compromise and hopefully a step to getting back to weight training. For you, if you wanted it for rehab, you'd probably need to go to a studio. If you just want exercise, stick to the Yoga. I did a search and there are heaps on sites with info available, but the site for the kind I'm doing is www.pilates.net if you want to learn more.
SR - I do the alternate nostril breathing for about 5 minutes, then concentrate on my breath. It doesn't always work, but usually does. If that doesn't work for you, I'm out of ideas at the moment, sorry. Keep practising Bob's technique for a while, I guess.
Right, I'm going to get a life now. Off to the library. See ya, Deb.
Follow Ups:
Re: Migraines from Working Out? a PS
Posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 20:07:16:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 15:53:33:
PS Tony. While out walking to the library I had some more thoughts.....
SR - If you do start doing yoga at home and are doing it nice and slow, using your breath properly, going into an SR session after that might work. You should be all slowed down and maybe more receptive.
EBV - I know (hope) you were only kidding when you said you wished you had it, they might be able to treat it. They can't. And it's just a red herring. The real reason I'm ill, as I realised when I read Walt's book, is that I'd been stressing my body too many ways for too long and compromised my immune system. Even the overtraining was only part of it. EBV is an opportunist critter that takes advantage of the fact that you've made yourself ill. (It's just an easy way to explain to people what's wrong with you. "I'm too tired" sounds a bit lame!)
How many hours a day do you spend on your PC? I'm sure that electromagnetic radiation, but expecially hours in front of a PC, contributes to chronic fatigue.
And one last thought - are you not working cos you're ill? Or did the unemployment come first? Probably not a major factor, but if it came first, it might be one of the stressors that made you ill.
Cheers, Deb.
Follow Ups:
Deb - PSS
Posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 23:13:09:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? a PS posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 20:07:16:
Deb,
Overtraining? Were you saying that too much exercise contributed to your condition? I'd be interested to hear about that.
First of all, thanks for thinking about my condition on the way to the library. There must be a better way to enjoy a beautiful day, but I appreciate it just the same.
I lost my job after months of trying to work after I got ill. I just couldn't do it anymore. And I also started using the computer months after getting ill. I had never used one before. I may spend a good hour on it every day now, but although it may not be good for me, I think the info I get on this BB outweighs it. This has been my lifeline.
I had been trying SR after Yoga, and before too for that matter, but I never noticed much of a difference.
By the way, did you see the post up top about a warning to stay on the diets? That scared the hell out of me. Slipping into a MCS situation (although I think I'm having a lot of those symptoms with my CFIDS), sounds really bad. At least I can digest some of my food. But I do have a problem in large, newer buildings. Don't ask me why.
Talk to you soon!
Tony
Sorry Deb
Posted by Tony on February 06, 1999 at 11:57:52:
In Reply to: Re: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Deb on February 05, 1999 at 17:20:54:
Deb,
Did I insinuate that you don't have a life? I'm sorry. I didn't mean it like that. I was just joking with you.
Thanks for all the info. I was doing the yoga at home, but then I started getting the cholinergic urticaria (I don't know if you have followed the dermatographia posts) when I started to warm up, and I couldn't handle it anymore.
Not to mention, of course, my insecure, narcissistic need to lift weights at least occassionally to try and make me feel better about my self image. Not that my body has really changed since I was about 14 whether I've worked out or not. Or whether I ate healthy or not, for that matter.
I need to just accept who I am, and that I've been fighting against my natural state my whole life, and stick with the Yoga. I actually really want to get into Tai Chi, but I can't find (or afford) any teachers around here. I have a tape, and I really liked it, but I get bored with tapes pretty fast.
Sorry for rambling again.
Tony
Follow Ups:
Re: Migraines from Working Out?
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 06, 1999 at 14:23:12:
In Reply to: Migraines from Working Out? posted by Tony on February 05, 1999 at 10:44:35:
Hi, Tony.
This is a classical symptom of early dysautonomia. Your SR is going to take care of this too.
Walt
Tony - overtraining/chronic fatigue connection
Posted by Deb on February 06, 1999 at 20:08:14:
In Reply to: Sorry Deb posted by Tony on February 06, 1999 at 11:57:52:
Congratulations, Tony! You have just joined a huge pile of friends and acquaintances that I been through this scenario with : Friend makes joke, I reply in kind, friend says "I was only joking!", I say "So was I!!". I guess I just deadpan too well - you'd think I would have learnt by now, wouldn't you? Especially here, I must remember the :)!
Yes, I do think overtraining contributed to me being sick. Along with 15 years of PC use (all day, every day, and from a few months before I got sick, every evening as well), eating the wrong foods (even when I tried to eat healthy, I took the wrong path to start with), being a bit of a stress bunny who's bad at doing nothing, food allergies and probably a whole host of other things.
Your triggers will have been different. I don't think the amount of PC use is significant for you, but I suspect overtraining might be. I won't put to much info here using up server space, but will give you a link. My partner's bike shop has a website and I did a section on nutrition, which includes overtraining. In case I muck up the link again, the address is : http://www.frot.co.nz/training.htm If you want to look round the rest of the site while you're there, bear in mind that what I've written is aimed at cyclists, not people with health problems. Quite a different focus than here.
Your comment about heating up doing Yoga - does that mean you are doing Astanga Yoga, the energetic kind? I was envisaging the slower kind of Hatha Yoga.
I wouldn't freak out too much about the warning about staying on the diet. I think she meant people who know what to do, but don't bother. You're still working on finding out what's right for you, so just focus on that.
Best, Deb
Re: you may be onto to something here
Posted by Tony on February 06, 1999 at 22:47:57:
In Reply to: you may be onto to something here posted by Pete R on February 05, 1999 at 17:13:37:
Pete,
Do you think the actual exertion of running was helping to trigger the migraines, or just the fact of doing something that maybe type A's weren't meant to do? Or maybe just the stress of the lifestyle running involved? (Getting up early, feeling compelled to do it, etc.)
Also, as a fellow (former?) athletic type A, how has your experience with the ER4YT diet been?
Thanks Pete.
Tony
Re: you may be onto to something here
Posted by Tony on February 06, 1999 at 22:49:46:
In Reply to: you may be onto to something here posted by Pete R on February 05, 1999 at 17:13:37:
Pete,
Do you think the actual exertion of running was helping to trigger the migraines, or just the fact of doing something that maybe type A's weren't meant to do? Or maybe just the stress of the lifestyle running involved? (Getting up early, feeling compelled to do it, etc.)
Also, as a fellow (former?) athletic type A, how has your experience with the ER4YT diet been?
Thanks Pete.
Tony
Follow Ups:
reply to tony
Posted by Pete R on February 08, 1999 at 09:21:03:
In Reply to: Re: you may be onto to something here posted by Tony on February 06, 1999 at 22:49:46:
"Do you think the actual exertion of running was helping to trigger the migraines, or just the fact of doing something that maybe type A's weren't meant to do? Or maybe just the stress of the lifestyle running involved? (Getting up early, feeling compelled to do it, etc.)"
I really don't know. It may be all of the above. I tend to think, however, that the getting up early and always being tired had more to do with my situation.
"Also, as a fellow (former?) athletic type A, how has your experience with the ER4YT diet been?"
Its been well, although I modify it with more protien. I eat quite a few eggs, but on ezekiel toast. I think ER4YT has some very important lectin guidelines so I follow it pretty much. (Thanks Dr. D.) But in the summer, even though its carcinogenic, I'll barbecue a steak and drink red wine, etc. Part of moderation. But MOST of the time, I follow a more vegetarian organic diet. I seem to be very happy with lentils with vegetables too, so maybe I fit in with the A paradigm.
take care. PR
Kids And Migranes
Posted by becky fleissner on April 06, 1999 at 17:49:16:
In Reply to: you may be onto to something here posted by Pete R on February 05, 1999 at 17:13:37:
My Friends Child Is Ten Years Old And Been Getting Severe Headaches And She Went To The Emergency Room And Found Nothing Wrong. She Does Not Throw Up With Theese Headaches She Just Has Bad Pain In Her Forhead Can You Give Me Any Advise.?
Follow Ups:
Re: Kids And Migranes
Posted by Walt Stoll on April 07, 1999 at 16:46:50:
In Reply to: Kids And Migranes posted by becky fleissner on April 06, 1999 at 17:49:16:
Hi, Becky.
The chances are that this is NOT migraine. Many physicians are so lazy about thinking that they call ANY severe headache migraine. I really think it is to impress the patient that they are dealing with the symptoms as best they can since many people associate migraine with severe.
This is most likely a muscle tension headache. However, if it is a vascular headache (of which migraine is an uncommon kind) the person can stop the pain just by using the "hot arms" technique. See the note about Vascular Headaches on the home page.
If it is muscular, it will be no less severe but the approach is a lot different.
Once you figure out what kind this is, let me know for alternative ways to get rid of them.
Walt